Final Look


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Okay, I'm not intending to complain. MS has done a good job since... for the most part.

What I'm wondering is, the interface that MS Windows Vista has now, is that the final look? The reason is because I heard that MS has already developed their interface guidelines, which means the interface won't be changed much afterwards? I realize many people will be like, "Wait for Beta 2; this interface is just a placeholder", but it kind of seems final to me. No offense, but I hope it's not, because it looks awakard and plastic-like, not smooth and refined.

Go to:

http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=114694

and maybe you'll get a more solid grasp/understanding?

Thanks for your answers/reasoning!

-Andy :D

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in Beta 1, MS is only demostrating a VERY little part of the complet Aero Interface and if you read the style guide it clearly out lines that the content is subjected to change...don't worry about it, the final release won't look like Bet 1 :)

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Okay, I'm not intending to complain. MS has done a good job since... for the most part.

What I'm wondering is, the interface that MS Windows Vista has now, is that the final look? The reason is because I heard that MS has already developed their interface guidelines, which means the interface won't be changed much afterwards? I realize many people will be like, "Wait for Beta 2; this interface is just a placeholder", but it kind of seems final to me. No offense, but I hope it's not, because it looks awakard and plastic-like, not smooth and refined.

Go to:

http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=114694

and maybe you'll get a more solid grasp/understanding?

Thanks for your answers/reasoning!

-Andy :D

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A lot can be changed while retaining compatibility with the interface guidelines. I read once MS would allow us to change the color of the glass, I wonder if that'll be true for the start button/bar and taskbar, too. That would greatly increase Aero's niceness factor, imo. I'm just not a fan of the color black. I also heard that MS will allow unsigned visual styles with vista, making it easier to customize the look, which is what I'm really looking forward to, I'm sure people will be able to make great visual styles with vista's graphical cabilities. Personally I'd like to see something where the taskbar icons and start button light up like the min/max button when used, though I know everyone wouldn't.

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What I will laugh at is if the interface doesn't change that much. If only I had a webcam to see the look of dissapointment on the faces of everyone who says 'It won't look like that in the final.'

What if it does? Who says someone at MS won't one day think 'wow, this looks pretty good I think we'll keep it.'

More ultimately: Many of us will end up theming Vista like we do with XP if it's possible...so it's not really a drama if the default theme is horrible anyway is it?

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I am sorry to disappoint most of you, but beta 2 is basically the same as what we are currently experiencing in Vista Beta BUILD 5219. There aren't many changes to the ui in beta 2 except for a few enhancements here and there to give it some polish and the added components such as Movie Maker 3, WMP 11. So what you are seeing now is basically the finished product.

And don't use that XP Beta 1 and 2 crap as any excuse, this is Vista, not Whistler.

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Really? But look above,

"in Beta 1, MS is only demostrating a VERY little part of the complete Aero Interface and if you read the style guide it clearly out lines that the content is subjected to change...don't worry about it, the final release won't look like Beta 1"

And you refered to Beta 2 like it's existing now... it isn't... we're still on Beta 1... it's coming out in a few months.

Why would MS stick w/ THIS interface? Isn't it obvious to them how messy it looks? Isn't one of Vista's themes "clarity"? Oh yeah I forgot- that's just a marketing ad lib.

Or is it? How do you KNOW it's basically finished?

Sorry if I sound rude... I'm not, just curious.

I am sorry to disappoint most of you, but beta 2 is basically the same as what we are currently experiencing in Vista Beta BUILD 5219. There aren't many changes to the ui in beta 2 except for a few enhancements here and there to give it some polish and the added components such as Movie Maker 3, WMP 11. So what you are seeing now is basically the finished product.

And don't use that XP Beta 1 and 2 crap as any excuse, this is Vista, not Whistler.

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Edited by Andy13
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So what you are seeing now is basically the finished product.

And don't use that XP Beta 1 and 2 crap as any excuse, this is Vista, not Whistler.

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If you say that you must be a first timer beta tester, I can put my bank account on it that what you see now will be TOTALLY and RADICALLY different from what we will see in the final product.

Yes all the guidelines posted and all that makes no difference those are just that guides, the actual look of the GUI can change without breaking the compatibility with the guide.

Hey I also agree the current pre-beta2 build's look is horrible like many other people do which also gives me more reasons to believe Microsoft will by no means keep it as final.

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No offense to any MS people out there, whos reading this, but the look right now is a mess. It HAS potential, but it's still pretty much unfinished and inconsisent.

And, how about all those ppl testing w/ Beta 1 & 2? Bet they'll have alot of feedback.

What I will laugh at is if the interface doesn't change that much. If only I had a webcam to see the look of dissapointment on the faces of everyone who says 'It won't look like that in the final.'

What if it does? Who says someone at MS won't one day think 'wow, this looks pretty good I think we'll keep it.'

More ultimately: Many of us will end up theming Vista like we do with XP if it's possible...so it's not really a drama if the default theme is horrible anyway is it?

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I can't believe that the interface won't change. I can't imagine the time and effort microsoft put into rendering the interface verses the old XP method of just laying bitmaps down.

As far as whats in the current Vista builds, 90% of the aero interface could be done without any rendering at all. The theming is certainly possible, the transparency (though we'd loose the blur effect) is possible. The only thing that would be lost is the subtle effect of Windows minimizing down into the sidebar and the Windows-->Spacebar task switcher.

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I can put my bank account on it that what you see now will be TOTALLY and RADICALLY different from what we will see in the final product.

That's a pretty bold statement. I hope you're right. Not for the sake of your bank account, but for the fact that I, like many others find the current interface bland, boring, unoriginal and uninspiring.

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I can't believe that the interface won't change.  I can't imagine the time and effort microsoft put into rendering the interface verses the old XP method of just laying bitmaps down.

As far as whats in the current Vista builds, 90% of the aero interface could be done without any rendering at all.  The theming is certainly possible, the transparency (though we'd loose the blur effect) is possible.  The only thing that would be lost is the subtle effect of Windows minimizing down into the sidebar and the Windows-->Spacebar task switcher.

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As of now, I see no reason to enable glass. My computer just runs slower with it and there are no added benifits. I have it on occasionally for testing but its rather pointless.

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I will stick with Windows XP Pro since it's getting DX10, WMP11, IE7...no point of installing Windows Vista. I use Windows 2000 look and feel environment, and it's best for me, looks professional. Aero, Transparecy etc is just useless crap for me...I can run transparecy anytime using the feature provided by NVIDIA drivers, and it's just nothing but transparecy which doesn't make OS any better, but takes more RAM...

There is nothing worth of trying to install Windows XP. Game optimizer application in the VISTA. for example? I hear really scary facts...i don't want OS to makes me run applications and games as Microsoft see fits them, i'm not paying for it. I hope they make Vista Setup sort of modular, so you can remove all that crap....

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I can't believe that the interface won't change.  I can't imagine the time and effort microsoft put into rendering the interface verses the old XP method of just laying bitmaps down.

As far as whats in the current Vista builds, 90% of the aero interface could be done without any rendering at all.  The theming is certainly possible, the transparency (though we'd loose the blur effect) is possible.  The only thing that would be lost is the subtle effect of Windows minimizing down into the sidebar and the Windows-->Spacebar task switcher.

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What are you talking about...I thought they are making OS not a game. I don't need "blur effect". Who the hell needs it? Blur effects are for the games...heck how much time and effort they spend, they could make a nice looking game, and pack the DX10, WMP11 etc into Windows XP and call it Windows XP Second Edition or whatever...

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The interface guidelines are preliminary. They're still being developed. I wouldn't expect anything super drastic.... but there are a few surprises left in store.

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Imagine this! The average Joe goes to the store and buys the system with preloaded Windows Vista. He is :) He turns on the computer and then after 30 minutes of working on it he is :huh: Then he makes phone call, and i have to deal with it. The conversation is going to be like over some useless effects and options he can find as he finds them on his old machine Windows XP. He will be confused and he will ask himself, what the hell all of these effects, sounds, pop ups, animations are doing on my screen. Of course we will setup everything as Windows 2000/XP look and feel, and he will feel better for while.

I can see this scenario...crap a lot work for me on the phone...

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The interface guidelines are preliminary.  They're still being developed.  I wouldn't expect anything super drastic.... but there are a few surprises left in store.

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Like sidebar? It's like beating the dead horse. There are so many 3rd party sidebars, and dashboards that this is not interesting at all. Sidebar...hmmm :no:

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Like sidebar? It's like beating the dead horse. There are so many 3rd party sidebars, and dashboards that this is not interesting at all. Sidebar...hmmm  :no:

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you mean except for the fact that this is the most simple sidebar youll find, with the functionality of a sidebar and a dashboard minus the resourcehogness of either one? :)

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Fact of the matter, glass is what's going to be in Vista RTM. I'd stake money on it. Its going to be a hell of a lot more polished in the final, obviously. I'd expect the taskbar to go back to the white frosted glass somewhat like in 4074, the start menu to change to something more consistent with the rest of the UI, and little UI elements like balloon popups to become a bit nicer looking, but the big things, like window borders, aren't going to change that much. You actually see hints of this in the guidelines you all are so sure MS would break by polishing the theme at this point. There's screenshots of the white taskbar there. There's screens of glass balloon tips. But the general look and feel is pretty locked down.

It's not going to be radically different.

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Hmm, we got the first signs the current Vista builds were using a pretty final UI with MS releasing the design guidelines last week, and now we get more pointing in that direction? Are we still supposed to shout "but wait, it'll get much better when beta 2 is done"?

So far, that's just speculation, and what MS is feeding us is with messages saying "this is Vista".

I wonder what happened with this, as a poster brought up:

http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/lh-winhec-03.png

Sure, a concept image, but it shows off a simplicity and accessibility Vista isn't even close to right now. I'll give them beta 2 as well, but I can't see this changing much at all in the RC's. That's when they have to start putting the final touches on it, work out the kinks in what they have, and start working on software/hardware compatibility and general quality assurance. Not change designs...

Edited by Jugalator
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Man, I sure am glad Microsoft pays attention to all of your gripes and complaints...

To think that they are done with the UI at a Beta 1 stage is just ignorant in my opinion. There is still a YEAR (at least) until RTM. With the power of the WPF that PDC attendees saw (and I'm thinking of The North Face app), what we're seeing as far as effects from Glass are just scratching the surface. The other cool thing is that the same WinFX APIs that Vista is being developed on are available for developers to build against and leverage for some truly incredible skinning/theming possibilities.

I think a lot of this has to do with disliking Microsoft for whatever reason, or expecting them to provide everything in the world. From what I saw of Vista, and the future of the platform, we haven't seen everything, and in reality, we haven't seen half of what is to come from WPF.

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Fact of the matter, glass is what's going to be in Vista RTM. I'd stake money on it. Its going to be a hell of a lot more polished in the final, obviously. I'd expect the taskbar to go back to the white frosted glass somewhat like in 4074, the start menu to change to something more consistent with the rest of the UI, and little UI elements like balloon popups to become a bit nicer looking, but the big things, like window borders, aren't going to change that much. You actually see hints of this in the guidelines you all are so sure MS would break by polishing the theme at this point. There's screenshots of the white taskbar there. There's screens of glass balloon tips. But the general look and feel is pretty locked down.

It's not going to be radically different.

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Stop using "white" taskbar, you make it sound like its gonna be milk white. Transparent or clear is appropriate.

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Man, I sure am glad Microsoft pays attention to all of your gripes and complaints...

To think that they are done with the UI at a Beta 1 stage is just ignorant in my opinion.  There is still a YEAR (at least) until RTM.  With the power of the WPF that PDC attendees saw (and I'm thinking of The North Face app), what we're seeing as far as effects from Glass are just scratching the surface.  The other cool thing is that the same WinFX APIs that Vista is being developed on are available for developers to build against and leverage for some truly incredible skinning/theming possibilities.

I don't think it's that ignorant to say that by beta1 Microsoft could have established the UI design they wanted for vista.

UI Design normally is done using prototypes because it doesn't involve much coding and effort from teams doing and programming UI's that may not be accepted. This UI is already in production and used throughout the system (even Media Player 11 uses it) so I don't really think it's that safe to assume that this is not the final UI.

I think a lot of this has to do with disliking Microsoft for whatever reason, or expecting them to provide everything in the world.  From what I saw of Vista, and the future of the platform, we haven't seen everything, and in reality, we haven't seen half of what is to come from WPF.

Don't even close... Microsoft is the only responsible if longhorn comes out overhyped...

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Yes, sadly I am nearly convinced this is the final UI. There is absolutely no reason to be optimistic about it, it's no different than when MS introduced the BUTT FUGLY BLOCKY BLUE WINDOWS FP FISHER-PRICE PIECE O... I mean, the "Luna" UI for Windows XP. Everyone said it's not the final interface, but it was. WITH the blockiness, WITH half the icons alpha and half not alpha, WITH those aweful low res and terrible contrast luna and bliss default backgrounds, and so on. I think we may see a bit of tweaking to the current interface, but no major changes.

That said, this is a LOT better than Windows XP's interface.

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