y_notm Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 Stop using "white" taskbar, you make it sound like its gonna be milk white. Transparent or clear is appropriate. 586553220[/snapback] I did no such thing. expect the taskbar to go back to the white frosted glass somewhat like in 4074 I defined what I meant by white taskbar earlier in the post, in contrast to the black glass taskbar thats currently in 5219. i don't see a need to be extra verbose for the sake of retards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dee Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 I did no such thing.I defined what I meant by white taskbar earlier in the post, in contrast to the black glass taskbar thats currently in 5219. i don't see a need to be extra verbose for the sake of retards. 586553428[/snapback] There is no need to call anybody a retard because of a lack of a proper vocabulary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 The guidelines are preliminary though, right? Which means they can still make some major changed to the UI if they wanted to. I personally have higher hopes of what's to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasgooch Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 I have been trying to keep up on all of the new information coming from the PDC. What I have heard/taken from the discussions is that the guidelines are how a developer should code their program to take advantage of the WinFX API so they will have a more consistant feel with the Microsoft GUI elements. There are several Channel 9 video's out there that were released at the PDC timeframe where several people involved with the GUI development have said this is not the final look. I know Microsoft has strict NDA's right now on the final elements of the GUI and no one is talking because they don't want to lose their jobs. With the percieved competition being so tight right now with OSX 10.4 and higher Microsoft doesn't want to show their hand just yet, there is no reason to. They have stated several times this is for developers to get onboard and start getting comfortable with the new API's available. And for the people calling this Windows XP second edition you really have no idea what this product is all about. Windows XP is Windows NT 5.1 and Windows 2000 was Windows NT 5.0. Windows Vista is Windows NT 6.0. This is a major overhaul of the core elements of the base OS, visual styles are just fluff but the core is what is important here, not the visual theme. If it were just the visual theme Microsoft was concerned about they would have bought up the Windows Blinds team and put a new skin on and called it a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus- Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 ok since all of you are curious to see whats comming from microsoft regarding the ui, ill show you what the highest tier might indeed look like. remeber that this was all the way from 2004 a late ati slide from an internal ati meeting. BUT you can clearly see the new gadget sidebar which is now real. who knows what else present in this image will also become real. but its obviously a drastic difference from what we have right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr0z Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Awesome. Interesting times ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dee Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 ok since all of you are curious to see whats comming from microsoft regarding the ui, ill show you what the highest tier might indeed look like. remeber that this was all the way from 2004 a late ati slide from an internal ati meeting. BUT you can clearly see the new gadget sidebar which is now real. who knows what else present in this image will also become real. but its obviously a drastic difference from what we have right now. 586555460[/snapback] Thats just a Photoshop concept, its not even real code, I don't think it was even created by MS folks, just ATI's interpretation of aero/diamond based on what their ui designers saw and heard from MS in discussions. A recent channel video with Steve Ball talks about these concepts that over deliver and when the final code is released its nothing close to what was conceptualized. http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=116794 Kam Vedbrat's video also talks about how close the final ui is to being finish, only thing is bit of performance tweaking and polishing. http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=114694 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus- Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Thats just a Photoshop concept, its not even real code, I don't think it was even created by MS folks, just ATI's interpretation of aero/diamond based on what their ui designers saw and heard from MS in discussions. A recent channel video with Steve Ball talks about these concepts that over deliver and when the final code is released its nothing close to what was conceptualized. http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=116794 Kam Vedbrat's video also talks about how close the final ui is to being finish, only thing is bit of performance tweaking and polishing. http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=114694 586555586[/snapback] photoshop from 11/04 with a sidebar thats shown today? i think not. ive also had it confirmed to me that that was based off real code. the person i talked to couldnt say if it was real or a ps but he did say that if it was was ps work it was based entirely off "live code" also i have to mention what desktop aurora would do in a desktop as seen in the ati slide. remeber world view? put all these things together and you would see in your head what microsoft is hiding for the top tier. also remeber that none of us have seen the top tier its a highly guarded ui. only 12 people at microsoft (the ones working on it -duh) have even seen it (exluding top execs like ballmer and gates who have probably seen it). This second part is known facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunbiz_3000 Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 If anyone has seen the site of northface that was shown at PDC'05 would know what Avalon is capable of..... I think if Microsoft has developed those APIs, they r sure gonna use those... I mean thats why they keep telling that the interface would be Dx9 and has still not been shown to the world. I think the 3D windows, which could move round and round, and can be viewed from the back...(I dont know how to explain that, but people who have seen the northface site demo will know). This is going to be highest capacity UI in Vista, also called Aero Diamond. PDC'05 really showed what Avalon can do, and Im sure by the time beta 2 comes out, most people who say the UI is bad, will realize what MS has up its sleeve. But I dont know, if its really gonna increase any productivity or not !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightmarE D Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Hasn't Microsoft already said that all the eyecandy can be turned off? They'll know that not everyone is going to like it so I think that if they already didn't make it where you could turn it off they probably will. They only part I like with the transparent look is the taskbar and you can already do that with Windowblinds or Glass2k. The blur look of the windows looks cool but after a little while just becomes annoying IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagamer34 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 If anyone has seen the site of northface that was shown at PDC'05 would know what Avalon is capable of..... I think if Microsoft has developed those APIs, they r sure gonna use those... I mean thats why they keep telling that the interface would be Dx9 and has still not been shown to the world.I think the 3D windows, which could move round and round, and can be viewed from the back...(I dont know how to explain that, but people who have seen the northface site demo will know). This is going to be highest capacity UI in Vista, also called Aero Diamond. PDC'05 really showed what Avalon can do, and Im sure by the time beta 2 comes out, most people who say the UI is bad, will realize what MS has up its sleeve. But I dont know, if its really gonna increase any productivity or not !! 586558578[/snapback] Kam Vedbrat already said that there won't be 3D windows in a Windows version for a long time, because it detracts from usability, the OS would have to waste time converting 3D space to 2D coordinates which would break OS compatibility for older programs, and quite simply, adding 3D doesn't do anything useful. I am still wondering whether Aero Glass will automatically turn itself off on a laptop if the battery isn't plugged in. Using advanced rendering will most definitely take more power from the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskren Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Kam Vedbrat already said that there won't be 3D windows in a Windows version for a long time, because it detracts from usability, the OS would have to waste time converting 3D space to 2D coordinates which would break OS compatibility for older programs, and quite simply, adding 3D doesn't do anything useful.I am still wondering whether Aero Glass will automatically turn itself off on a laptop if the battery isn't plugged in. Using advanced rendering will most definitely take more power from the battery. 586560631[/snapback] In Beta 1 if the new power management applet (the one in the taskbar, not control panel) is set to "automatic" and you pull the plug, DWM turns off completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 also remeber that none of us have seen the top tier its a highly guarded ui. only 12 people at microsoft (the ones working on it -duh) have even seen it (exluding top execs like ballmer and gates who have probably seen it). This second part is known facts. 586556075[/snapback] what is the possibility that all MS people posting on Neowin have no clue about a drastic change in the offing ? :ninja: not being doubtful on them but I can imagine something as critical as Windows UI being guarded steadfastly ! :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotdog666al Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 The vista interface really is not that spectacluar. They should make a minimal Visual Style :) Minimal > Everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay-Man Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Yup, I'd also say that this is very, very close to the final UI. In the Kam Interview, he states that they'll still add some things, but overall, this is very close to final. Also, forget skinning. They'll give developers the option to go for custom UIs, but he also states that they won't give "teenage users the option to build a Yu-Gi-Oh interface". I think it'll be as skinnable as XP was - And that's a shame, cause Microsoft seems to be too afraid to take bolder steps when it comes to workflow/the end-user experience. So, after 5 years of working on Longhorn, Microsoft has not been able to deliver an OS that looks modern and gives us a modern workflow. I don't see a lot of things that'd make the shell more accessible, that'd make navigating through Windows easier, to break it down, it's more or less the same thing that Microsoft introduced with Windows 95 on steroids. And that's gotta be a bad joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boz Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 As couple of people pointed out Kam Vedbrat was talking about Build 5221 that he was using and how caption buttons glow and all that, new ALT-TAB/Win+TAB features, live previews on the taskbar etc are cool. He was one of the people in charge when they were developing Aero/Avalon and I do believe this is close to final. I hated the look at first, but I totally see his points and I'm starting to like it. People who speculate should watch the video with him. After all this is one of the guys in charge for Vista UI. Now we can for sure expect A LOT MORE POLISHED product from Vista. The whole idea of transparent borders is great IMO as few of my friends who are working on most recent builds said, it's starting to make sense now when they use it. It actually allows them to concentrate on window content instead of the window as whole. This is one of the reasons why Longhorn was given Vista name. Clear in every way. It will clearly make you see the content and stuff you work on instead of intrusive window borders etc. As far as theming and visual styles, I think that people are wrong when they say they won't allow skinning potentional. With new GUI approach I guarantee it will be 10 times easier to skin Windows. I think once Vista is completely polished, people will grow to really like it. It does have possiblity to look very minimalistic/stylistic in the end when it's fully polished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savourymonkey Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 I've been using the vista beta on my notebook for past couple of months, and whilst it's been surprisingly stable and work-friendly, the UI is a disappointment. It's fine for people to say that the major changes in Vista go far beyond the cosmetic, but I aminly use my system for relatively standard tasks, using office, photoshop and quark and not much more, and I am interested in how a ui looks. It impacts on how much I enjoy using the system, and, whilst vista is certainly a thousand times better than the default xp UI, it still looks messy, uncohesive and confused. It's like they looked at all the things that they could do, and then just threw them all in, without much thought for how to tie them all together. I contrast this to my home machine, which still runs (very happily) 4074. In my opinion, this interface was far more attractive, far simpler to use and really did feel like a completely new experience, whereas Vista soes really just feel like and expanded xp, in spite of all the "technical" changes that I'm sure I would be unable to understand. For me, 4074 was where longhorn peaked, and in my view, it's been downhill ever since. However, I know that UI design is a highlysubjectivetopic, and I accept that some people will wholeheartedly disagree with that appraisal, but that only makes me question more Microsoft's apparent determination to prevent people from skinning the UI themselves. I can't understand why more customizable options are so against Microsoft's philosophy. A final note. I far prefer windows to mac in terms of usability and productivity, and think that in most ways, mac's have become the most overrated tool in existence, offerring often less perfomance for a higher price, but our layout department have a few, and I was working on one the other day. Tiger's UI, whilst not immediately stunning or particularly groundbreaking, is attractive, usable and simple. It's minimal without being confusing, and sleek without sacrificing function. Microsoft could still learn a lot, but from everthing I've read and heard, it does seem that this is indeed a fair approximation of the ultimate interface, and, for me a least that is a huge disappointment, and a great opportunity missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
406lx Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Although the interface of 5219 feels more modern than Windows XP, if this is close to the final UI then I am also disappointed aswell. To me, 4074 feels and looks a better interface, when you see a screenshot of it it hits you more than what 5219 does. The sidebar looked more apart of the OS than does the new sidebar (although not finished so likely to improve) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dee Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Maybe Blackcomb will have a radical ui redesign. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Cl Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Maybe Blackcomb will have a radical ui redesign. :) 586563595[/snapback] Oh no here we go again :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Maybe Blackcomb will have a radical ui redesign. :) 586563595[/snapback] I think most people are complaining about how ugly and unpolished it looks and not exactly its the same UI (lets not confuse UI with themes). Eventhough I am not asking for a radical redesign (WExplorer is pretty much redesigned), all I want is a nice-soft theme that does not make my eyes hurt while using it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pasztor.laszlo Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Dont be st*pid! :blink: Microsoft wants to "Change the world" by Windows Vista. They wont keep this looking, Windows XP CAN DO IT TOO! There is almost 1 year till its releasing, you will know how will it look like when you will buy the FINAL version of Vista. Windows XP can have the SAME look as Vista has. The apps you need: WindowBlinds v5 WindowFX So calm down, im sure we cant imagine how impressive will be the look of the final product! :happy: TaciboY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pasztor.laszlo Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 And i think Paul was wrong. Windows Vista will be a REVOLUTION. Microsoft can do it. I mean look at the Office 12! Thats what i call revolution. So if they could make it with the Office, they can make (and will make) it with Windows. Thats for sure! Look at Microsoft Max, and the knowledge of its user interface. If a ported app to xp can have this great looking, Vista will be much much much greater! Belive me :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dee Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 And i think Paul was wrong. Windows Vista will be a REVOLUTION. Microsoft can do it. I mean look at the Office 12! Thats what i call revolution. So if they could make it with the Office, they can make (and will make) it with Windows. Thats for sure! Look at Microsoft Max, and the knowledge of its user interface. If a ported app to xp can have this great looking, Vista will be much much much greater! Belive me :D 586564390[/snapback] Think about that, Office 12 looks radical and its not even at BETA 1, Vista is at BETA 1 and its not that radical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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