9/11: Truth or Hoax?

[mrchetsteadman]

Please don't start the flaming saying I am a conspiracy theorist or anything. I just have a open mind. Look at the video and tell me what you think. I don't believe everything the guy says but most of the things make sense. The patriot act basically takes away your rights. I am moving to Canada!! :p

But seriously, have an open mind and check this out. Let me know what you think...

http://www.archive.org/download/Masters_of_Terror/Masters_of_Terror.wmv

[Fred Derf Veteran]

[Thread Moved to Area 51, Hanger 101]

C-Squarez asked my opinion so here we go...

I am not going to click on the link. Even though I am not an American and the 9/11 attacks were not directed at my country, I still feel kind of disturbed that people would suggest that the US government would stage an attack on their own citizens as part of some greater plot. For what I can see, America has a long history of mucking about in other parts of the world without ever needing to stage an attack on itself. Why start now?

In terms of the Patriot Act. Yes, it gives police the same powers against terrorists that they had against drug dealers. Maybe the problem was that I never realized they had these powers to use against the drug dealers. Personally, I think the police should have less powers and more judicial oversight (that's proactive oversight and not just retroactive oversight). Rather than more powers, there should be more police. They police should have excellent lines of communication between regions (one police force to another) and between jurisdictions (the police force and the FBI and/or CIA). I doubt that the Patriot Act was needed and I am concerned that there is no sunset clause to the Patiot Act II. Fear should not become the new normal.

[mrchetsteadman]

Wow. When I asked for your reaction, I wasn't expecting that. Very well said, thank you very much. But anyways, the Bush administration 1st said that they did not have any pre-knowledge of the 9/11 attacks, but when the 9/11 commission exposed the fact that they did have prior knowledge, they admitted it. It was easy to play it off as "incompetence". See now, the Patriot act pretty much tears the Bill of Rights limb from limb. The government can basically do what it wants. They can jail a US citizen indefinitely without bringing charges forward. I am still reviewing the Patriot act myself and I will let you know what I find. Here is a link to it if anyone is interested.

http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html

[2xSilverKnight]

Already, when there are explosives in the building going off, it's easy to assume that it was well planned. Even in the FDNY tape "officially" released days ago, they are firefighters reporting explosions in the buildings and in the towers basement. Go get the tape, and see for yourself. They never showed it in the medias. They showed one who reported that the fire was intense but it's because the plane crashed minutes before. After 30-45min, they reported two small isolated fire (north tower)and that they would be able to stop it. And also, the lack of oxygen is evident because of the black smoke coming out from the towers. Ask experts, if u want.

Only with that, you can already say that there's something not right. And when 7 buildings has been destroyed because of two planes hitting only the towers. Yes, there were none of the other WTC Buildings left. Months before 911, Silverstein bought the entire complex and put an insurrance policy of 7$Billions, twice the value of the complex. He didn't loose much, doesn't he :whistle:

Anyway, there so many things to say and take in considerations that it would be too much to write. And can we keep the flame war away, it's really childish when you can't accept this information and try everything to let everybody away from this and thinking it's only a conspiracy theory.

Edited August 16, 2005 by 2xSilverKnight

[mrchetsteadman]

Exactly^^

The government isn't as honest and law abiding as many people want to think. If you make a law, you can break one. And the Silverstein thing is true, he collected big bucks from insurance companies. And I saw the video where the fire fighters said it was a controlled demolition because floor by floor the buildings came down. And they have Silverstein on tape saying he told the fire fighters to "pull it" (building 7) meaning to demolish it. C4 isn't something you can just throw around and press go. It has to be set up properly and that takes hours.

[mrchetsteadman]

Not reall bumping this topic because it is still in the tops 3 but, I am sure after 115 views you guys have more to say than this...

New answers/thoughts please...

[2xSilverKnight]

just want to make a little clarification ..

the link you gave for the patriot act is the first one.

Patriot Act 2 is even worse ! (2003 revision is the second one, while 2001 is the first Patriot Act).

This one has already been approved by the house, only the Senate has to make the final "approvement".

[l0g0ut]

US government may or may not be responsible for the attack but Bush & Co. really know how to take advantage of the whole situation. Pushing agendas to meet their own benefit. Politically and financially, who's better off after the attack?

[mrchetsteadman]

The government used it as a way to implement Marshall Law (not sure is that's the right spelling). I was watching FOX NEWS this morning and they said that prior to 9/11, the US army warned the FBI about Muhammed Atta and even scheduled meetings 3 times to try and figure out what to do but the FBI pulled out at the last minute EVERY time.

[lardiop Veteran]

If you havent done anything wrong, why would you worry about it? It only becomes an issue when you get involved with the wrong croud. So what if you loose some privacy rights?

All it did was break the red tape that plagued investigations in the past. Fahrenhype 911 goes into some detail with this.

[Krpano]

So what if you loose some privacy rights?

This is a sarcasm, right ?

[Scudworth]

I dont really have anything intelligent to say here, other than that the first time I saw "Martial Law 9/11: Rise Of The Police State: Weapon Of Mass Enlightenment" I was like "wwwwwwow......."

Alex Jones is awesome (Y)

[Rodrigo]

Heh, just something to add to the topic...

Just another theory about 9/11 conspiracy...

[mAcOdIn Veteran]

Well some of us don't accept this information because it's circumstantial.

1. It makes perfect sense to insure a really expensive investment like the WTC with a large insurance policy, I would have done the same had I been able to buy them.

2. Don't confuse, being warned of a possible attack using airlines as the same thing as around 9:15am eastern time two planes hijacked from Boston(was it?) will fly into the WTC towers, those are two different things entirely.

3. Buildings can fall floor to floor without being a controlled explosion, I don't know why that's special. Way I see it there's only two possible ways for a building to collapse, and one of them is floor to floor.

4. Placing explosives to bring the towers down, after the entire nation has already just watched two jets fly into quite possibly the most recognizable buildings in the country, I really don't think you need to add that little cherry of explosives on top to rile up the masses.

5. The amount of people to carry out this attack, had it been done by the US, would have been staggering. You'd have had to tip off Norad instead of them just being incompetent, the FBI, the CIA, so many frekking people, for it to work as an inside job that it isn't funny. The chances of that being true are next to zero, though I admit it's possible, it's just as unlikely as Scarlett Johansson showing up at my door wearing nothing but a smile.

[Nashy]

Find a copy of In Plane Site. I found it very interesting.

[mAcOdIn Veteran]

Does it have Scarlett Johansson in it? Crap man, I finished Love Song For Bobby Long because of her, if she were in Plane Site, I could probably watch it as well.

[Marduk]

Interesting, another thing thats weird is that on the day of the london incident this year they were redrafting the patriot act or something like that right?

I'm a canadian but from what I've read/heard(more than that stupid Moore crap) from it sounds like quite a bad deal for americans, I've talked to some who have been manhandled because of it.

Edited September 2, 2005 by Marduk

[adrian.wallis]

3. Buildings can fall floor to floor without being a controlled explosion, I don't know why that's special. Way I see it there's only two possible ways for a building to collapse, and one of them is floor to floor.

:yes: architects are not stupid people; tall buildings are 'designed' to fall straight down, as it is far more favorable than them falling sideways.

[mrchetsteadman]

Interesting, another thing thats weird is that on the day of the london incident this year they were redrafting the patriot act or something like that right?

I'm a canadian but from what I've read/heard(more than that stupid Moore crap) from it sounds like quite a bad deal for americans, I've talked to some who have been manhandled because of it.

586470902[/snapback]

People have been brainwashed. The media makes you think Micheal Moore is an idiot. If the Bush family flew the bin Ladens out of America the day of the attacks, that's the proof right there. I am going to go and watch the movie and debate this... :angry:

[mAcOdIn Veteran]

People have been brainwashed. The media makes you think Micheal Moore is an idiot. If the Bush family flew the bin Ladens out of America the day of the attacks, that's the proof right there. I am going to go and watch the movie and debate this... :angry:

586481744[/snapback]

Michael Moore IS an idiot.

The Bush family did NOT fly the Saudis out the day of the attacks.

See ya here after you watch it.

[mrchetsteadman]

Michael Moore IS an idiot.

The Bush family did NOT fly the Saudis out the day of the attacks.

See ya here after you watch it.

586486205[/snapback]

Haha, yea. i can't say a thing because I haven't watched it. ut since the last thread was closed, I wasn't refuting anything you said. I actually agreed. long story, don't feel like typing... :D

[mAcOdIn Veteran]

Ahh, not saying you did, I just hate Michael Moore, and that whole flying the Saudis out the day it happened has been going on for ever and it's totally not true.

I do not believe everything the government says about 9/11, there's definately still, 4 years later, alot of questions that haven't been answered so I guess what makes me really mad about the whole thing is that Michael Moore is the one actually asking the questions. He has no character and embellishes more than he uncovers and if this is the guy who is championing the effort to get the whole truth we're never going to get it.

A little secret of mine is that I actually root for those conspiracy theorists, they're wrong 99% of the time but when they get it right they hit it out of the park and it totally changes the way we look at something. The problem with them is most of them are crazy or liars, and so sometimes what little bit of truth they uncover is overshadowed by thier eccentricness(which is a shame) or flat out not true, which basically solidifies the conspiracy.

So I think if we ever want to get to the bottom of 9/11 we need to erase Fahrenheit 9/11 from our mindset and start over, because ever since that movie was released more time got spent just refuting the stupid BS claims Moore made, when real legitimate questions could have been asked, but I guess it doesn't matter now since 9/11's all but faded from the publics mind.

[mrchetsteadman]

Yea, imma go pick it up today as a matter of fact. As soon as I leave school. Just like you, I DO NOT believe the "official" story behind 9/11. I would elaborate but I am tied up at work. I will ressurect this topic in about 24 hours...

[Zenicanin]

If USA wanted to attack a country, they dont need any excuses. For iraq, it had nothing to do with 9/11 and USA attacked and what now? USA isn't in any trouble because of it. Those several other explosions could very well be oxygen bottles exploding after being heated, or maybe there was some other gas bottles used for heating and such that exploded, who knows? But really, it's beyond pathetic to think USA would kill it's own people and ruin its own economy just to go to war. It always helps going to war with a better economy. And we know WTC going down messed up economy pretty good for a while.

[2xSilverKnight]

fahrenheit 911 is a white washing movie of the events about 9/11. It doesn't even cover the real facts. He just says that it was a big failure of the government and the secret services .. do you think they are so stupid? It happened because they wanted to ..

And the floor to floor colapse is such a BS theory for this. Here's the first tower's colapse top floors are in an inclined angle which make it impossible that it was a floor-to-floor colapse. I have a few videos and photographics evidences that shows blast points.