To install Linux, or not to install Linux

[Tharius]

Right now, I am on the verge of installing Linux. For some reason I just can't go through with it. I don't know if it is the whole partition thing, or the fact that I only have a 60 gb hard drive that is filling up fast. I was planning on duel booting Windows and Ubuntu.

Can someone please tell me what makes it such a good OS?

[Barney T. Administrators]

Why do I love Linux so much? Well, I started dabbling in Linux a few years ago with Redhat 7.0 when I bought it for pure curiosity reasons at my local computer store. I tried to install it and got frustrated immediately. I un-installed it and put the CDs away. About 6 months later, a small annoying voice in the back of my head told me that I shouldn't be defeated and to try again. After some research, I tried Mandrake and kept with it until my computer was humming along.

Now, many distros later, I love the freedom and security of Linux. There is nothing like learning a new system and conquering it. I feel Linux is a top operating system because:

- It does not require any EULAs or other "big brother" committments.

- It is free to use for those who want it.

- It is highly secure and does not get trapped in the spyware / virus / BHO problems.

- It is easy to install and highly modifiable for those who want to change things.

- There are so many different distros, there is something for everyone.

- It can easily be dual-booted with Windows.

- No defragging needed. Ever.

- There are Live CDs for those who want to experience Linux but do not want to alter their current OS. Just pop the CD in and reboot. The OS runs completely from the CD.

There are lots of other reasons, but I love the challenge of creating a system that hums like a charm.

Barney

[Rob2687]

Just resize your Windows partition so that there is enough space for Ubuntu then when the installer asks you, select the empty space on your drive. It will install it's own boot manager which should auto detect the windows install and add it to the list. Unless you are a complete noob it's really easy to set up.

If you ever want to get rid of it just remove the partition. Pop in your windows install cd and go into the recovery console to put the windows boot loader back.

[lostspyder]

- It does not require any EULAs or other "big brother" committments.

- It is free to use for those who want it.

- It is highly secure and does not get trapped in the spyware / virus / BHO problems.

- It is easy to install and highly modifiable for those who want to change things.

- There are so many different distros, there is something for everyone.

- It can easily be dual-booted with Windows.

- No defragging needed. Ever.

- There are Live CDs for those who want to experience Linux but do not want to alter their current OS. Just pop the CD in and reboot. The OS runs completely from the CD.

586830757[/snapback]

what a linux user wont tell you is about driver hell. If your device isnt supported by linux specificaly your probaly screwd. I doubt linux is any more secure then windows, but viri writers are there to make an impact, and the world will notice a windows virus, not a linux virus. No file system never needs to be defraged. NTFS does fine without defraging too, sorry reason. And live CDs arnt a reason to use linux.... Just cause something is there doesnt mean its a reason.

anyhow resize a partition if your intrested. Try it, its fun, but I at heart love windows :D

[h3xis]

No file system never needs to be defraged. NTFS does fine without defraging too, sorry reason.

where are you getting your information again?

[AltecXP]

few magazines have shown there is no real preformance gain in fraged vs defragged NTFS (only on drives that were used for databases shows and real need for defragmentors to be run)

Im in the same spot. I only do webDev and some programming, But I cant decide Fedora/Ubuntu/Windows.

I might just get OSX since i can keep my programs (Macromedia Studio), and still have a form of Linux. If they had Macromedia for Linux I would switch easily.

[Whiffle]

Well...first of all...its free, so its not like its actually *costing* anything to install, so you may as well do it.

If you search we've been over this a number of times, in detail, with much pain. But, here's my abbreviated version of why I tried/liked/kept linux.

Curiosity/Something new- Totally different from windows, and learning something new is never bad.

-Stability/Security- 33 days since the last time I started my computer, with the CPU running 100% the entire time (folding@home), and many hours of Enemy Territory (with folding@home running). Only reason I had to shut it off was it was full of dust, and I wanted to rewire some things. In that time I really have had to do absolutely zilch to keep it running, no virus scans, no defragmenting, no registry cleaning, no spyware searching, nothing.

-My computer, my control - Nothing on this computer I don't want on it, everything I do want. If something breaks, I can dig through a log file and figure out whats wrong (which I rarely have to do, once I got it setup). None of these cryptic BSOD screens, or watching explorer crap out, puke all over itself and then restart itself automatically (watched a school computer to that yesterday, apparently it doesn't like it when a workgroup isn't "accessable")

-Did I mention its free?

If you really can't decide, pop in an Ubuntu live cd and toy around a bit. Keep in mind that it won't be nearly as fast from a CD drive though.

[Tharius]

Hmmm, mixed opinions...

Well, one small note is I don't have a XP install cd which sounds like a problem if I want to set things back.

I heard that the Ubuntu install would let me do the partitioning stuff then. Is that true?

[lostspyder]

where are you getting your information again?

586830787[/snapback]

Im getting it from intuition. My I drive (where I keep windows) is about 20% fragmented, and thats cause ive reinstalled windows on it several times (I perfer a fresh install when changing hardware) without reformating it because im too lazy to do it. Never been defraged and its been there for a few years now (2 or 3). NTFS isnt the FAT you rember from the olden days.

@ OP

without a way to reinstall windows you are taking a risk. From my expirence resizing partitions can be risky. Also windows needs the first partition (im 90% shure on this, I rember something like this) cause its just rude in the manner it handles its bootloader. Could you ghost your XP install? Ive never used a ghost image before either so im not 100% shure how they work.

If this is your first time with linux you will probaly mess something up, I know I did (was 2 or 3 years back, though they claim its gotten more user freindly). I learned partitioning your drive can realy save your behind by keeping your data seperate from your OS.

Edited November 20, 2005 by lostspyder

[Barney T. Administrators]

Lostspyder.....NTFS doesn't require defragging? That is not my experience at all. My Windows XP box uses NTFS and over time it slows down considerably. I have to use my defrag utility to re-group my clusters again and speed up my hard drive. I also have the same experience on my wife's laptop.

I have never had this issue with any flavor of Linux. :yes:

And having the ability to use a Live CD to test a Linux distro before you install it is surely a reason to try Linux. You aren't committed to anything permanent. If you don't like it, simply take the CD out and reboot.

Barney

[pickleman]

It does not require any EULAs or other "big brother" committments.

It is free to use for those who want it.

basically one and the same meaning.

Read the Xandros licence agreement and you'll see that it is not that different than a Ms agreement.

AND if you think that "when" and "if" Linux becomes more widley accepted that they won't start adding EULA's then you are sadly mistaken. It will happen.

It is free to use for those who want it.

Free is not always better.

  It is highly secure and does not get trapped in the spyware / virus / BHO problems.

Linuxsecurity

'nuff said on that subject

It is easy to install ...

neowin Linux help

'nuff said on this subject

There are so many different distros, there is something for everyone.

oh yea. So many distros that the average person has no clue as to which one they want or need. That sure makes things easier.

It can easily be dual-booted with Windows.

You can pretty much dual boot any x86 based OS...moot point

No defragging needed. Ever.

well, let's see..I defrag maybe once every 6 months...while I'm sleeping....That's a real headache :)

There are Live CDs for those who want to experience Linux but do not want to alter their current OS. Just pop the CD in and reboot. The OS runs completely from the CD.

The only real advantage fo using Linux.

[pickleman]

here is no reason to flame or bash my thread response. My reasons are my reasons alone. Your post is simply inflamming and mean spirited. If you want to post your opinions, please do it maturely.

flame? Bash? Mean Spirited?

They look like legitimate answers to me. I see no flaming or bashing or mean spiriting anywhere in my responses.

You need to take a chill pill dude.

:yes: :whistle:

Edited November 20, 2005 by pickleman

[Barney T. Administrators]

^^ There is no reason to flame or bash my thread response. My reasons are my reasons alone. Your post is simply inflamming and mean spirited. If you want to post your opinions, please do it maturely. :angry:

Barney

[markwolfe Veteran]

flame? Bash? Mean Spirited?

They look like legitimate answers to me. I see no flaming or bashing or mean spiriting anywhere in my responses.

You need to take a chill pill dude.

:yes:  :whistle:

586831777[/snapback]

Pointing to the FAQ section as an attempt to produce a counterpoint is a bit nonsensical. You really aren't providing much of a response at all. It seems that even Windows users have problems (gasp!) and have support sections here on Neowin.

Back to the OP.

Go ahead and give it a try. Use a LiveCD, like Knoppix, and see if it is something that you are possibly interested in.

Making room for Linux really isn't that hazardous. Make sure you have a backup, but then again, all users should have regular backups of their important data. ;) You can add in another hard drive to install Linux on (this is the most safe option, and you can probably find a friend that has an old 4-10GB drive they find too small and useless and will let you have that for free.

Linux, for me was a chance to really learn how a computer works, and get an enjoyable reliable OS out of it. It suppored my Canon IX4015 scanner right out of the box, which is something that Windows no longer does (not since Me/NT4, I believe). Everything else "just worked", but that may not always be the case. No matter what OS you run, you will run into things that you need changed or corrected.

I just prefer Linux over Windows. You may, too. Or you may not. You don't know until you give it a try.

[Brandon]

I have ubuntu on my laptop, I mean there are some things which i dont like (like battery life is shorter), but for the main thing, i really dont notice that much of a difference now i have it set up the way i want

[darkmark327]

It is highly secure and does not get trapped in the spyware / virus / BHO problems.

Neither does windows unless you're incompetent. BTW:

http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcen...x.plupii.b.html

http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcen...oor.suckit.html

etc.

Yeah windows has a lot but don't get a false sense of security. Also consider where the term rootkit came from. Secure practices will negate the threat of viruses on any OS; conversely, stupid practices will put you at risk regardless of OS.

[CaKeY]

basically one and the same meaning.

Read the Xandros licence agreement and you'll see that it is not that different than a Ms agreement.

AND if you think that "when" and "if" Linux becomes more widley accepted that they won't start adding EULA's then you are sadly mistaken. It will happen.

Free is not always better.

There will ALWAYS be 100% free, 100% open source options.

Linuxsecurity 

'nuff said on that subject

Sites like that are one of the BEST things about Linux. Windows users should be so lucky to have everything so well documented, up front and out in the open.

neowin Linux help

'nuff said on this subject

Yeah, I agree... its just as easy to install Linux as it is to install windows.

well, let's see..I defrag maybe once every 6 months...while I'm sleeping....That's a real headache :)

The only real advantage fo using Linux.

586831758[/snapback]

For the most part this just shows how primitive windows is.

[Whiffle]

Neither does windows unless you're incompetent.? BTW:

http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcen...x.plupii.b.html

http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcen...oor.suckit.html

etc.

Yeah windows has a lot but don't get a false sense of security.? Also consider where the term rootkit came from.? Secure practices will negate the threat of viruses on any OS; conversely, stupid practices will put you at risk regardless of OS.

586832124[/snapback]

Number of infections: 0 - 49

Number of sites: 0 - 2

Geographical distribution: Low

Threat containment: Easy

Removal: Easy

Number of infections: 0 - 49

Number of sites: 0 - 2

Geographical distribution: Low

Threat containment: Easy

Removal: Easy

Linuxsecurity

'nuff said on that subject

http://www.windowsecurity.com/

So whats your point?

Edited November 20, 2005 by Whiffle

[Sensayshun]

I went over to linux fulltime on october 5th as I wanted to stop playing so many games.

Since switching I have wanted to go back once, only to find out that win98se wouldn't install :)

I'm glad it didn't install, I'm not pirating anything anymore, I play a few games (doom3, tetris and minesweeper) just to keep me happy. Everything the computer does it does it because I TELL IT TO.

DVD's I just put in and they play, on legitimate software. Music, I just put in and it rips straight onto my hard drive. USB devices, including cameras, usb storage, mice and keyboards, I just plug in and the files show up.

So what I've mentioned is stuff that windows can do, if you're willing to pay for it. But there are some things windows can't do.

For instance, when I install windows, the first thing I have to do is download firefox as it's more secure, I then have to download AVG Free edition (or prepare to pay for some 3rd party software) and install a firewall (Or pay for one) I then have to go about downloading all the latest stuff, drivers for nearly all my hardware, direct x 9, latest media player, latest msn which is supported by advertising.

But when I install linux on any of my systems, I install it and boom, it's quick and it's ready to go, no securing to do, no stuff to install (except possibly gfx drivers which take about 30 seconds tops) and I can do what I want.

I can go and edit a word document or an (open source) openoffice document (which happens to be the same .doc just 1/2 the size) I can go on skype and talk with family and friends, play some games, watch my films.

And then, upkeep:

I don't do any kind of upkeep on my system, none. Sometimes when I turn on there's a small red circle in the top right which if I want to I can click and update, but really there's no need. On XP however, (and there's 2 or 3, windows machines in this house) family members are constantly complaining about it being slow, or not starting up because somethings incompatible with something else and automatically loads at startup. I'm constantly running spybot, ad-aware, virus scanners, scrolling through logs and running other web based virus checkers. I put my little brother on one of my linux boxes for a week, showed him where to click to get the games, where to click to get the internet, and where to click to get gaim (linux' msn) and skype and I had no complaints for a week. He could finally use his camera which windows wouldn't previously detect and he could also transfer all his music from the other windows mahine onto his mp3 player because linux can read windows file systems, but windows can't manage to read linux file systems.

They're my reasons.

[Tharius]

Thanks for all the input everyone.

I am going to go ahead and try the live cd to see what it's all about. I can download the cd image for that, right?

On a side note, I know Linux and games don't exactly seem like best friends. I have heard that once you get everything set up it runs fairly smoothly. How does it compare to Windows?

[markwolfe Veteran]

Gaming on Linux is great for those (very) few games that support Linux (UT, Quake, Doom).

It is questionable for games that you have to work at (using cedega, or such).

I would strongly recommend keeping Windows around for games, unless you are OK with sticking to games that support Linux, or don't mind a bit of effort.

[ichi]

-I can install/remove/upgrade every application/library/driver from the package manager in a clean way.

-GLSA-check shows every known vulnerability for every installed package, tells me if I'm afected and fixes it if I tell it to do so.

-No need to defrag.

-Since packages are installed from the distro repositories, there's no way you can get malware through them unless the repositories get hacked, which is still unlikely to affect you because of the md5 checking of downloaded packages.

-No way to put spyware crap in opensource programs without someone noticing it.

-No need to install almost any driver. Almost everything is supported by the kernel.

-No need to reboot for anything but switching kernels.

-Since most programs are console based, I can set up scripts to do things faster (or pick a graphical front end if I feel like doing so) and automate tasks.

-I can use as many virtual desktops as I want.

-Since code for most programs is free, I can look at the source to either learn, modify it or include part of it on my own open source projects. No need to reinvent the wheel.

-Large uptimes don't degrade performance.

-Any error I get provides enough information to find a solution.

[El_Cu_Guy]

Sorry I just gotta:

Read the Xandros licence agreement and you'll see that it is not that different than a Ms agreement.

Not quite. Only the second half, dealing with non-GPL'd software or software which porhibits further restrictions per the licensing terms.

AND if you think that "when" and "if" Linux becomes more widley accepted that they won't start adding EULA's then you are sadly mistaken. It will happen.

They already do. However, they cover non free software (free as in freedom, duh). You seem to forget that the GPL and simlar licenses prohibit adding additional terms or restrictions. Also many of these EULAs limit installation as long as they contain these non-free programs and support as well as other services is not offered for additional installs.

Free is not always better.

No but free (as in freedom) is.

In regards to security. Look at Windows. The Sony rootkit should NEVER have been allowed to do what it did. And the nerve of Microsoft to cry foul.

Ease of install? Read half of the posts. A majority are goofballs that would be no better off trying to install Windows. The rest are duplicate questions. "No I assure you, my dual booting requirements are unique". Yeah right.

Numerous distros? New users have only a handful they actually need to look at. Avoiding asking at forums like NeoWin will make the choice easier.

Defrag? My

winbox has better things to do like crunching workunits for the Human Proteom Folding Project. Any slow down as a result of defraggin means less time dedictated to crucnching.

[Barney T. Administrators]

^^ Exactly! :yes:

What these guys above me said!

Barney

[Mouldy Punk]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it right? If your windows install is fine, what's the point installing linux?

Unless you're like me and want to install linux because you can, not because windows is broken. If you're undecided whether you want to potentially mess up your hard drive installing linux, you could just try tinkering with a live cd for a while. If you like it, go ahead and install it. Chances are nothing will go wrong. The only problem I've ever had installing linux was when I tried installing slackware from a corrupt disc...oh, and Mandriva when it kept freezing because of something to do with acpi or something. But if you have any problems, linux has a really HUGE and helpful community. There is bound to be someone out there that knows how to fix any problem you're having.

If you want to learn about linux and how it works etc. I'd recommend just installing a minimal installation of Debian or something and working your way up from the command line.

If you just want to try something different, but have a fully functional desktop, install Ubuntu or SuSE.

It all depends on what you want to use linux for really.