Microsoft confirms 360 hard drive shortfall

[ahhell]

Sorry to be a hater but Microsoft is having one BAD WEEK!

So many problems :devil:

Thanks for your contribution to the thread. It was most helpful.

:no:

[dnast]

They advertized a 20GB HDD, they are shipping xbox360 with a 20GB. so what is the problem. remove comparibility software if its that much of a deal. or better still don't buy premium. buy a core system. no hdd from MS. connect your own 20GB!!! all space available !

It still comes with stuff preloaded, and I'm hoping it'll still have space reserved for developers to use, since it really does make a difference with loading times and streaming content.

Sorry to be a hater but Microsoft is having one BAD WEEK!

So many problems :devil:

Meh, I wouldn't really call this a problem. A misunderstanding, maybe. I'm actually happy that they're saying some of the HDD space is reserved for devs.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

just get an external usb hard drive with whatever storage u need and hook it up to the usb port

Has this been tested and confirmed working?

[JodyWatts]

... they are misleading people.

I disagree.

The box says "20gig HDD" ... there IS a 20gig HDD included.

The box does NOT say 20gig of user / game storage (or even 20gig FREE) ... and there isn't

Bottom line, they say it includes a 20gig HDD and they are right ... NOWHERE did they say YOU would have 20gig of storage that was an assumption you made albeit an incorrect one!

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Razor....wow...apparently you don't understand. See, the CORE has no hard disk drive. Yet, it still effectively has an operating system. So, your sarcastic comment is useless in this context. We are talking about losing 35% of our disks. When you buy a computer that comes with a 160GB HDD and you have 104GB free...then start talking.

EDIT: Before comments start flying back, be it known that I understand what it's used for. It's the fact that it's 35% that's hard for us to understand without some sort of disclaimer. The OS is on some flash, I assume...so, the HDD is being used for caching, emulating, and updates....7GB is a lot to lose, but I do understand. The point of this was us wondering where it went....now we know.

Youre' going to lose at least a GB for formatting probably. Maybe more as I wouldn't be surprised if there are 2 2GB FAT partitions on there for the Xbox emulator to use.

The rest is probably used by the emulator itself, a disk cache for games to use (ie. Virtual Memory), and the videos, games and such that come pre-loaded.

[MadFerIt]

Using an External USB hard drive is not what you think. Just like the xbox360 can be connected to the PSP or an Ipod/other music device it can also have a usb hard drive plugged in.

But until they allow things like video/downloadable content on external devices to be playable on the 360 the only thing it's good for is music :p.

If you have a massive music collection and want all of it on the 360, a usb hard drive is perfect. But that's it.

[dnast]

Has this been tested and confirmed working?

There's a modded 360 that supposedly has an additional 60GB or so HD inside but using a UBS port. I think there was a thread about it on this forum, but I'm not sure.

The problem is that you can't save games or download Xbox Live Arcade games to an external HD from what I've heard.

Edit: I walked away from the computer for a few minutes before adding my reply :blush:

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

There's a modded 360 that supposedly has an additional 60GB or so HD inside but using a UBS port. I think there was a thread about it on this forum, but I'm not sure.

The problem is that you can't save games or download Xbox Live Arcade games to an external HD from what I've heard.

Edit: I walked away from the computer for a few minutes before adding my reply :blush:

Oh well, I'm in the UK and finding it hard to get my hands on the hard drive for my core 360. It will have to wait until after New Year I guess. Would be excellent if you could use any external hard drive.

[mr_skrilla]

I would question this article... because of the fact that with the core system there is no hard drive so why 1GB to hold the o/s? There might only be 13GB of usable space but I don't think that all these reasons are correct. Anyways, 13GB is more than enough.... plus the drive has to have a FAT table for the file system and that gets to be pretty big.... plus the fact that when the drive is formatted the block size is larger than the sector size of the disk so there is some internal fragmentation and that can use up diskspace, especially when you are storing small files....

Plus, haven't any of you guys noticed that when you buy a hard drive and format it that the size of the drive is not the amount that it says? I just formatted my 200Gig drive and it says that it's capacity is now 127Gigs... that's about 25% of the disk lost because of formatting...

plus the hard drive is pre-loaded with content... delete that **** and you get more space... god people will just make **** up!

Edited December 8, 2005 by mr_skrilla

[TheNay]

Also the Xbox 360's OS is NOT stored on the hard drive...it's stored on a chip (most likely an EPROM). If the OS was stored on the hard drive, how the hell would the CORE system work?

Good point :) I think MS is just trying to cover their rears :p

[Shetland]

Um, when you buy your computer harddrive at 200G, that is how much space you buy. YOU put on it what you want, so it is YOUR responsability to put XP on there and use that space.

On the 360, you buy it as is, and you not under control of what is on there or what is required to run the box. So when it says 20GB on the box, you aren't getting 20GB. If you want to run even one original X-Box game, you use 6 GB. Kind of a way to weasel you out of 6GB right there.

Again, a simple disclaimer would solve this.

thast just silly.

its a 20gb hard drive, doesnt say YOU get 20gb, its just 20gb of harddrive space.

8gb or whatver it was is used, but its still 20gb of space.

[Joel]

Look at the disclaimer on Dell's site. If one of those exists on the 360 box, I am satisfied. If not, then they are misleading people.

No, they're misleading themselves unless MS specifically says 20GB user-writable space. Look at cellphones; advertised with x MB, but not all of it user-writable. Are they also misleading people?

[nav1]

I'm amused by this thread. It really brings out those who simply conform and those who just won't take abuse like this. My position in this is a simple choice, and it's not with the ones letting their consumer right be stomped on.

I agree with you. Most of us, as tech-savvy guys, know before hand that not all f the HD is going to be available. However, I'm surprised to see the it uses so much space. If it were only like 2 or 3 or so GB, it wouldn't be an issue, but 7 seems too much for me. So they should put disclaimers on the box. I don't know about you guys, but I value my money, so before I buy anything, I like to get the facts and not get any surprises like that.

Either way, at the time people are stuck either way, since it's the only option available.

[b mitchell]

No, they're misleading themselves unless MS specifically says 20GB user-writable space. Look at cellphones; advertised with x MB, but not all of it user-writable. Are they also misleading people?

Completely missing the point yet again...like I am suprised. THERE IS STILL A DISCLAIMER.

Look in the manual or on any major electronic device with storage space. There WILL be a disclaimer clearly stating the total amount of available space to the consumer is less than what is truly labeled. The only difference here is that the space is constrained even further by the BC software (6GB worth of it). There needs to be a clear disclaimer on the box stating the use of such space and the lack of use of such space by the user while using the BC feature. If there is no such disclaimer, then MS is unlike any other manufactor in that they are misleading the total amount of available space to the consumer by not including the disclaimer.

Remember, not all consumers are "smart." They see 20GB, they expect 20GB of space, not 13GB. That is why disclaimers exist. No disclaimer = a lot of unhappy customers.

[BajiRav]

I would prefer this thread die a quick death, but just curious now...

did anybody actually check the manual for xbox360 ? they might have something there to please people who love disclaimers...

[+ir0nw0lf Subscriber²]

Microsoft should at least consider possibly putting out a disclaimer that the available storage space on the hard drive is actually less than 20GB or that part of the 20GB is used for system files, etc. I'm not saying that it's a MUST DO for Microsoft but it would at least (hopefully!) make happy the anal-retentive people who are practically ready to class action sue Microsoft because they are "being mislead by Microsoft" to believe that the entire 20GB of the hard drive is available for use by the end user. :rolleyes:

[Phemo]

I just formatted my 200Gig drive and it says that it's capacity is now 127Gigs... that's about 25% of the disk lost because of formatting...

Not wanting to go off-topic, but you need to sort your PC out. Use an XP CD with SP1 or SP2 integrated instead of the standard disc, ensure your BIOS is up to date etc, because a 200GB PC drive should give you around 185GB of usable space. A 120GB drive provides around 111GB, a 160GB drive provides 149GB. Even a 300GB drive is 279GB, so losing 25% is not right. It's down to a limitation, most likely because you used an XP CD with no SP integrated :)

Anyway, even a formatted 360 hard drive only has 13GB usable so it isn't taken up by the stuff on the drive. It doesn't surprise me - I always assumed the remaining space on the drive was allocated for the Xbox emulation side of things anyway. The drive probably has 18GB of real space (taking 1024Kb to 1MB into account instead of 1000Kb) so it's 5GB that's gone walkies. It's just been allocated for Xbox use, simple as that. The 1GB for the OS is a load of crap as the OS is stored on-chip as others have already mentioned.

However, partitions for game cache? That must mean game cache for Xbox games since there's no point having cache for 360 games - all games have to be playable on the core system. I have a core machine with a hard drive that I bought seperately and have noticed no difference in loading times since I added the hard drive.

[b mitchell]

Microsoft should at least consider possibly putting out a disclaimer that the available storage space on the hard drive is actually less than 20GB or that part of the 20GB is used for system files, etc. I'm not saying that it's a MUST DO for Microsoft but it would at least (hopefully!) make happy the anal-retentive people who are practically ready to class action sue Microsoft because they are "being mislead by Microsoft" to believe that the entire 20GB of the hard drive is available for use by the end user. :rolleyes:

Consumer rights is a HUGE issue. Letting a company like MS slide on somthing like this is a small victory on their part. I think a lot of people here severly over-estimate the intelligence of the average consumer, and they severly under-estimate the impact of leaving out a disclaimer like this.

[JodyWatts]

Remember, not all consumers are "smart."

If their not "smart", then they probably won't notice, know how to tell or care.

Consumer rights is a HUGE issue. Letting a company like MS slide on something like this is a small victory on their part.

Come on ... face it, Microsoft could cure cancer, stop terrorism and global warming, end world hunger and create peace on earth .....

and people would **still** bash and complain about them.

Edited December 8, 2005 by Big_Daddy

[b mitchell]

If their not "smart", then they probably won't notice, know how to tell or care.

Come on ... face it, Microsoft could cure cancer, end world hunger, stop terrorism, stop global warming and create peace on earth .....

and people would **still** bash and complain about them.

Maybe, but I wouldn't.

One thing that is a huge misconception on this board. Fanboyism does NOT help their individual causes. I want a 360. However, every time a fanboy tries to act all high and might, it makes me one one less. Its quite the paradox really. Not to say that necessarily applies to this thread, but the idea is sitll there.

[coolvi]

If their not "smart", then they probably won't notice, know how to tell or care.

Come on ... face it, Microsoft could cure cancer, end world hunger, stop terrorism, stop global warming and create peace on earth .....

and people would **still** bash and complain about them.

They're smart, indeed, but not knowledgeable. Consumers have been taught to be smart so they can realize when they seem to be misled or cheated on, but the limit is that they're not knowledgeable to understand the technicality behind things. In other words, they don't have a clue of how things work. It's funny how people like and seem to enjoy instant-on information show up on their screen, backward compatibility, all those functionalities and downloads without ever asking, where's all that stuff stored or going to be stored?

I can well imagine had Microsoft not put that reserve, then when a user got an error of some sort indicating there isn't enough space for a system operation, what would they be complaining now...

[JodyWatts]

One thing that is a huge misconception on this board. Fanboyism does NOT help their individual causes. I want a 360. However, every time a fanboy tries to act all high and might, it makes me one one less.

I take it you meant high and mighty ... ;)

For the record, I am no fanboy (just in case you were referring to me). Fact of the matter is, I don't own a gaming console ... AT ALL ... none.

I just think, that in this case, people are hammering Microsoft over nothing. Box says 20gig HDD and there is one in there. It does NOT say 20gig of user / gaming storage. There is no false advertising there.

[giga Veteran]

Doesn't the 360 come with several HD trailers as well?

[Phemo]

Doesn't the 360 come with several HD trailers as well?

Yes but even when deleted, there is 13GB of usable capacity on the drive so it isn't due to the content that the drive ships with.

[Roger H. Veteran]

If a save game took up 1GB of space and you thought you'd have 20 saves and it's only 13 then yeah sure. But that's not the case. They sold you a 20GB drive. You never expected to actually fill it up anyways. I've had my xbox now for 3yrs and the 10GB drive on it i doubt is anywhere near full and i've downloaded like ever multiplayer map there is to download.

If MS told me with the 360 that i'll be able to download X amount of stuff and i got only half then yea i'd complain but 20GB is what you bought and what you got. I'm sure you never planned on having 20GB of data on the drive anyways.. Sure you can stuff it with MP3s till it's full why bother when you can stream em from a PC?

C'mon people. compairing HDs in the typical sense doesn't apply here. Buying a 160GB drive and only actually having 149GB when formatted sure is a pain but nobody bitches cuz they did actually have a 160Gb drive in the first place. Just not what we expected and those guys should be whupped for that. But this stuff about not having 20GB of user accessible storage space is rediculous.