Aaron Veteran Posted December 14, 2005 Veteran Share Posted December 14, 2005 perhaps you are not seeing my point.... USC is a totally different team than Wisconsin & Texas were when they had record breaking rushers. Neither of them had a fraction of USC's skill players (ie people who can make big plays). Put Reggie Bush behind THAT big Wisonsin offense that runs the ball all day and you have different results. You can't compare these sorts of things. :rolleyes:s: That is possible. But you are speculating what he could have done better than Davis. I don't think anythign Bush has done so far in teh college level gives us any indication that he wll be successful in the pros. There are way too many Heisman busts and way too many 5th adn 6th round/undrafted stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yisman Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Wait didn't Ron Dayne set the all time rushing yardage record and then Ricky Williams break it like the next season? Those guys were considered quite dominant when they were in the league. I'm not saying that Bush isn't a good college player, but from teh stats I have looked over, the biggest thing he has going for him is his yards per carry (which is really impressive). He won't get 8+yards a carry in the pros. Yes, Ron Dayne set the rushing record. But you cannot measure dominance by statistics. Much of Dayne's success was because of a dominating Wisconsin offensive line (when it came to run-blocking). I don't think Bush will get 8 ypc in the pros, either. But so what? Eddie George overrated?! Unbelievable. He was not an all-time great running back. He was a good one one who stayed healthy and was consistent. He was not an elite player, in my mind. wow, a lot of people are talking some crazy smack here! i can't even keep it all straight. somebody said eddie george was overrated? he only played like the 10 most consistent years in the NFL compared to any other back in the league. and talking about bush being dominant in NCAA...um, no. where are his records? oh thats right, he doesn't have any. not even in that weak pac 10. williams set the record, and then dayne broke it, i believe. that is being dominant for 4 straight years. bush didn't come close. Records mean very little to me when it comes to evaluating a player. Besides, I'm sure Bush has some kind of all-purpose yards record (in a single game or single season). I don't think you are seeing the point - nobody is saying Bush isn't a quality player and that he might have success in the NFL. In the absence of any more overwelming proof, though, I won't just yet jump on this bandwagon that he is the best thing since sliced bread. Ricky Williams and Ron Dayne both had almost double the yardage that Bush has now. If he could rack up 3,000 yards in his senior year, then I'd be mighty impressed. I will give Bush this much, he is versatile and has a lot of all purpose yards, but as a pure running back his numbers are not top of the class (he is only 7th all time at USC). Bush is not a pure running back. He's a playmaker. If a team drafts him just to run him into the line repeatedly, they're morons. No one is contending Bush is the greatest pure RB of all-time. His strength is that he can do many things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snipe Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 yisman is the man :laugh: He knows what is going on :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Veteran Posted December 14, 2005 Veteran Share Posted December 14, 2005 No one is contending Bush is the greatest pure RB of all-time. His strength is that he can do many things. Ok, I agree with that point, but what Snipe? mentioned was this: You obviously have not watched the last few games. The run blocking has not been bad. Go look at Davis' stats for the last few games - he hasn't been a slouch by any means.... He had 139 yds rushing vs. the Titans. Bush could turn that 139 into a whole bunch more. Speed is not everything either... Davis doesn't have the killer moves that Reggie has. That is what I am commenting on. a pro RB getting 139 yards in a game is a very good day, I'd even say that as long as a back gets 80-100 yards, he "did his job". Saying that he would have had 140+ yards as rusheri> for thTexansi> is making a huge leap in logic. All I was saying is that there have been better college backs than Bush who have not lived up to the hype. Backs who have shattered TD and yardage records of which Bush isn't even close to. He is a good all purpose back, but as I said I ain't hopping on the Hype Wagon just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snipe Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 ... and Davis was a backup RB at LSU... LaBrandon Toefield was 1st string... I was at the 2002 Sugar Bowl when Davis ran for 4 or 5 TDs... that was sweet :p just saying.... You just never know what is going to happen in the NFL! We will all have to wait and see................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yisman Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Ok, I agree with that point, but what Snipe™ mentioned was this: That is what I am commenting on. a pro RB getting 139 yards in a game is a very good day, I'd even say that as long as a back gets 80-100 yards, he "did his job". Saying that he would have had 140+ yards as a rusher for the Texans is making a huge leap in logic. All I was saying is that there have been better college backs than Bush who have not lived up to the hype. Backs who have shattered TD and yardage records of which Bush isn't even close to. He is a good all purpose back, but as I said I ain't hopping on the Hype Wagon just yet. No specific amount of yardage means the back "did his job." Important things to consider are: How many attempts did he need to reach that yardage? Did he drop any passes? Did he handle his blocking responsibilities? Was he responsible for any turnovers? That's what drives me crazy about "1,000 yard seasons." Any running back who starts for a full season will get 1,000 yards. Maybe that's why people think Eddie George is so great. They think "1,000 yard seasons" are so great, or that compiling a lot of yardage automatically makes you elite. None of the players you mentioned were better college players than Reggie Bush. Pure running backs? Yes, some of the ones you mentioned were better pure runners. But none were close to the level of overall player that Bush reached. I still don't understand your infatuation with records. Every Texas Tech QB throws for a lot of yards because of the system. Does that mean they're better pro prospects than Matt Leinart? Was BJ Symons better than Eli Manning? Is Cody Hodges a better pro prospect than Brady Quinn? A player putting up impressive raw numbers in college is great for his college career, but there's a lot more to the equation in determining a NFL prospect. I don't really care how many yards Dayne ran for behind the huge Wisconsin line. He was not a better pro prospect than Bush is now. As for Domanick Davis: He's a good NFL RB. I would say Reggie Bush is a better player (speculating on how he would do in the pros). Does that mean the Texans should immediately take Bush if they have the #1 pick? No. Personally, I would trade down at least once, secure extra picks, and take two offensive linemen on the first day. The Texans have more pressing issues than RB. It's tough to pass up Reggie Bush, but other teams will be desperate to get Bush, which means the Texans can get that much more in a trade. ... and Davis was a backup RB at LSU... LaBrandon Toefield was 1st string... I was at the 2002 Sugar Bowl when Davis ran for 4 or 5 TDs... that was sweet :p just saying.... You just never know what is going to happen in the NFL! We will all have to wait and see................. LaBrandon Toefield is not a bad player. I wish the Jaguars would give him more of a shot. I mean, Fred Taylor misses like half of every season anyway. Why not give Toefield carries instead of Greg Jones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Veteran Posted December 15, 2005 Veteran Share Posted December 15, 2005 No specific amount of yardage means the back "did his job." Important things to consider are: How many attempts did he need to reach that yardage? Did he drop any passes? Did he handle his blocking responsibilities? Was he responsible for any turnovers? That's what drives me crazy about "1,000 yard seasons." Any running back who starts for a full season will get 1,000 yards. Maybe that's why people think Eddie George is so great. They think "1,000 yard seasons" are so great, or that compiling a lot of yardage automatically makes you elite. None of the players you mentioned were better college players than Reggie Bush. Pure running backs? Yes, some of the ones you mentioned were better pure runners. But none were close to the level of overall player that Bush reached. I still don't understand your infatuation with records. Every Texas Tech QB throws for a lot of yards because of the system. Does that mean they're better pro prospects than Matt Leinart? Was BJ Symons better than Eli Manning? Is Cody Hodges a better pro prospect than Brady Quinn? A player putting up impressive raw numbers in college is great for his college career, but there's a lot more to the equation in determining a NFL prospect. I don't really care how many yards Dayne ran for behind the huge Wisconsin line. He was not a better pro prospect than Bush is now. As for Domanick Davis: He's a good NFL RB. I would say Reggie Bush is a better player (speculating on how he would do in the pros). Does that mean the Texans should immediately take Bush if they have the #1 pick? No. Personally, I would trade down at least once, secure extra picks, and take two offensive linemen on the first day. The Texans have more pressing issues than RB. It's tough to pass up Reggie Bush, but other teams will be desperate to get Bush, which means the Texans can get that much more in a trade. LaBrandon Toefield is not a bad player. I wish the Jaguars would give him more of a shot. I mean, Fred Taylor misses like half of every season anyway. Why not give Toefield carries instead of Greg Jones? I think we are saying the exact same things here: College performance in no way means a pro player will be a success or a bust. Bush is a great all purpose collegiate athlete, but completely unproven yet in the pros. Those were the only points I was ever trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwizzel-B Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 BUT, those 7 or 8 yard rushes that Davis breaks could wind up being 70 or 80 yards with Reggie Bush. I love Davis (I am an LSU grad), but I think Reggie could be a game breaker the Texans are obviously lacking. Davis does not have the breakaway speed or killer moves that Reggie Bush has. I am hoping the Texans get the #1 pick, but I don't think they will. I think they will end up beating the 49ers (at least, if not the Cardinals as well). Then the 49ers could pick Reggie Bush with the #1 pick. For those who don't know - Alex Smith & Reggie Bush played together on the same high school team - would make for a nice story, but I want Reggie Bush on my team (Texans). I will be going to the Texans game this weekend, and will be pulling against them LOL! There far bigger needs for the Texans than RB. Dominack Davis is, when healthy, on of the top 5 RB's in the league (his number back this claim up, and as for this year he was out for a long stretch with an injury). The Texans picking Reggie Bush would be a waste of a pick with all of the glaring deficiencies in other positions. All Reggie's great moves mean nothing if the defense gives up 35 a game, and the O-Line can't keep Carr off of his back long enough to lead an effective passing game. Reggie Bush won't make either of these turn around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroChaos Veteran Posted December 16, 2005 Veteran Share Posted December 16, 2005 so what will reggie bush be good at in the pros? what will he bring to a team? the only thing i can see him being is a good punt returner. kinda like a desmond howard type of guy. plenty of speed and moves, but not big or tough enough for RB or WR. reggie bush will get eaten up by most NFL linebackers and safeties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Veteran Posted December 16, 2005 Veteran Share Posted December 16, 2005 so what will reggie bush be good at in the pros? what will he bring to a team? the only thing i can see him being is a good punt returner. kinda like a desmond howard type of guy. plenty of speed and moves, but not big or tough enough for RB or WR. reggie bush will get eaten up by most NFL linebackers and safeties. WEll, I won't say his size is good enough reason to say he won't be a success, since he is about the same size (6' 200lbs) as Marshal Faulk (5'11" 211lbs) and Edgerrin James (6' 214lbs), both that were "all purpose" types of guys. Also, just look at how small Warrick Dunn (5'9" 180lbs) is and he has had a pretty successful career. I mean he will easily pack on 10-15 more pounds as soon as he gets in a pro training regimen. Still not saying he will or won't succeed, just saying we just don't know yet. Stats pulled from SI.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreAming in DigITal Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 Basically if the Texans end up getting the #1 pick they need to trade down for several picks rather than wasting it on Reggie Bush. He can't solve their problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yisman Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Basically if the Texans end up getting the #1 pick they need to trade down for several picks rather than wasting it on Reggie Bush. He can't solve their problems... Agreed. Trading down would be the best move. Of course, that's what the 49ers should have done last year, and they didn't... (I'm almost certain they could have traded down if they wanted to. They wouldn't have gotten what you normally get for trading out of the #1 spot, but so what?) If I have the #1, I would usually trade down, even if I don't get a lot in return. Having the #1 pick can really hurt your franchise, especially since teams love to draft QBs #1 overall. Michael Vick? His cap number is going to hurt that franchise. David Carr? Didn't work out, and now he has an $8 million option bonus coming back. Tim Couch? Nope. Alex Smith? Too early to say, but I'm going to go out there and say he'll never be an elite NFL QB. I'm not basing this on his beyond awful rookie year. Just the fact that I didn't think he was an elite prospect when he came out. Certainly not worth the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Diaper Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Nah I wouldn't say the kicker missed on purpose, but maybe he figured "what the hell?" I thought Jay Feely threw the game against the seahawks weeks ago...but hey it's only a game.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yisman Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Jay Feely had a bad day and he missed several long FG attempts. Kris Brown looked like he shanked a short FG on purpose. Huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattmatik Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 (Eddie George) He was not an all-time great running back. He was a good one one who stayed healthy and was consistent. He was not an elite player, in my mind. Ok, there is a difference between being overrated and not being elite. I understand now what you are trying to say about George and how you are basing your opinion, but I think it's wrong to label him overrated. I agree, Eddie George was not an elite back, but that list is VERY short to begin with. And as far as people predicting Bush's success in the pros...it is impossible to predict. Like I said, there are many factors that come into play. Personally, I think LenDale White will be a much better professional running back than Reggie Bush. If you were able to watch enough USC games this season, you could see Bush get hit at the line and stopped many times. But his average per carry is so high because he broke so many 20+ yard runs. White is a bull with speed, he's always going forward, and he averaged a "poor" 6.2 yards per carry. I don't know, Bush reminds me of Ricky Watters. He'll be great at receiving out of the backfield, he'll break a run or two now and then, but I think his size will hurt him. He's definitely a game-breaker though, and if I were a GM of a team who was one play-maker away from being great, I'd try my hardest to get him. But I wouldn't try to build my team around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yisman Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 I think Eddie George is overrated, though. People talk of him as a great back because of all the yards he piled up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts