iPod Video Vs Creative Zen Vision:M


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On audio features, ha, the creative beats it in that aspect and everyone knows that. Have a custom EQ is great unlike the iPod where you are stuck with presets. A rip off? Creative were the first to design that GUI (which i think bitey said). The audio, video, features all beat the iPod, and personally, i think the looks do as well

I bet you didnt complain about the iPod 4G 40GB size did you? Is pratically the same thickness, but no, its not an iPod so it must be horrible!

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You guyz all have to agree with me that the Creative Zen Vision:M is just a rippoff of the Apple iPod G5, and because of that the Vision:M must be a whole lot better then the iPod. When looking at the features the, Creative obviously wins. But there are two things I absolutely hate about this Zen Vision.

1. working with file explorer :x

2. the thickness

I had an iRiver H340, it worked great........or so I thought...... :no: .It took many hours getting my intire music collection on the thing with file explorer. And most harddisk based mp3-players are really sensitive, and so was my H340. In less then a month the thing was broken.....harddisk error. And I think Creative has thesame problem. The iPod doens't have that problem because it loads the files from the harddisk to the flashmemory, instead of just playing it right away.

Oh, and btw, when you buy an iPod 5G or a Creative Zen Vision:M, you should never judge the player on its video features but on the audio features, the video is just an extra.

Another uninformed individual...

1. Can use WMP, MediaCenter, Nomtad Expoler, tons of other mini-programs. You have a choice.

2. The thickness is hardly a con. It can go anywhere an ipod G5 can. As cnet said(VERY pro-ipod) the thickness helps holding it in the hand. I felt the ipod G5 was adnormal in the palm. Point is: its an opinion. If the Zen is "FAT", the G3 and G4 are fat. Same goes with H320 and H340. Enjoy your crappy battery life!

3. The whole "ipod rip off thing". Where you born yesterday? Do have an idea how the industry works? Hopefully people know that it takes years to design a player and put a player in production. The Zen Vision was being thought up LONG before the ipod G5 announcement. Design and production take years even for the biggest of companies. Some of you people think you can produce DAPs overnight. Either way, it has vastly better specs then it's ipod "brother".

If any thing is a rip-off, it is Apple. Creative was making mp3 players before Apple even thought about it. Creative came up with the hierarchy interface you use with your ipod (not an opinion, please look up "Creative Patent").

Jeff(Admin misticriver) put it well:

I worked on the ipod for hours for a buddy with negative results. If you're looking to just throw video onto the thing and go as most people are, then the Vision:M is a much better unit. Just received mine yesterday and it's a very nice little player. As I stated over at PMP Maniac, I bet I can put the Vision:M anywhere that a 5G iPxd can go, the whole thickness issue is a load of sh*t in this day and age of mere millimeters.

Regarding the design being a ripoff. One thing to remember is that these players are not imagined, designed and manufactured in a mere couple of months, it takes a year or longer. The Vision:M was on the drawing boards and being designed long before the release of the 5G iPxd and as was mentioned above, there are only so many ways to design a player.

Edited by Bitey
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Another uninformed individual...

1. Can use WMP, MediaCenter, Nomtad Expoler, tons of other mini-programs. You have a choice.

2. The thickness is hardly a con. It can go anywhere an ipod G5 can. As cnet said(VERY pro-ipod) the thickness helps holding it in the hand. I felt the ipod G5 was adnormal in the palm. Point is: its an opinion. If the Zen is "FAT", the G3 and G4 are fat. Same goes with H320 and H340. Enjoy your crappy battery life!

3. The whole "ipod rip off thing". Where you born yesterday? Do have an idea how the industry works? Hopefully people know that it takes years to design a player and put a player in production. The Zen Vision was being thought up LONG before the ipod G5 announcement. Design and production take years even for the biggest of companies. Some of you people think you can produce DAPs overnight. Either way, it has vastly better specs then it's ipod "brother".

If any thing is a rip-off, it is Apple. Creative was making mp3 players before Apple even thought about it. Creative came up with the hierarchy interface you use with your ipod (not an opinion, please look up "Creative Patent").

Jeff(Admin misticriver) put it well:

Amen! I have an iPod 4g (gift, not by choice) and I don't find the thickness limiting at all, in fact, I kind of like having something with a little weight to it.

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I'm really starting to believe that Steve Jobs puts a brain washing chemical compound on every iPod so that it clears the new owners memory of ever thinking that there could be something greater than anything Apple puts out and to never back down from a DAP argument.

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I'm really starting to believe that Steve Jobs puts a brain washing chemical compound on every iPod so that it clears the new owners memory of ever thinking that there could be something greater than anything Apple puts out and to never back down from a DAP argument.

And I am really starting believe that anything that is remotely popular (and is actually as good as the hype) is all the sudden shot down with tons of hatred from a certain group of people because that is the cool thing to do.

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And I am really starting believe that anything that is remotely popular (and is actually as good as the hype) is all the sudden shot down with tons of hatred from a certain group of people because that is the cool thing to do.

This was a rather vague statement. Are you trying to say that the Zen Vision M is being shot down with tons of hatred by your little Steve-Jobs-can-do-no-wrong group?

Doesn't sound like you would say that.

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I just got a 60gb ipod video and couldn't be happier,, sound quality is so much better htan previous generations, and although i do find all the features of the creative to be cool, i honestly would use each maybe once or twice, the ipod does what i need, it plays music and videos, without the BS, i dont know about you guys buy rarely when im listening to music do i have the time to go typing in words and stuff to find a song/video etc, the navigation on the ipod is fast and simple, overall simplicity will always have me sold on the ipod.

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This was a rather vague statement. Are you trying to say that the Zen Vision M is being shot down with tons of hatred by your little Steve-Jobs-can-do-no-wrong group?

Doesn't sound like you would say that.

Yes, I'm sure that's what he just implied :rolleyes:

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I just got a 60gb ipod video and couldn't be happier,, sound quality is so much better htan previous generations, and although i do find all the features of the creative to be cool, i honestly would use each maybe once or twice, the ipod does what i need, it plays music and videos, without the BS, i dont know about you guys buy rarely when im listening to music do i have the time to go typing in words and stuff to find a song/video etc, the navigation on the ipod is fast and simple, overall simplicity will always have me sold on the ipod.

I'm really getting sick of these unresearched and unfounded comments.

Most of the Arguements of the Zen are the following:

1) "Sorry bitey, but these extra functions of the zen don't matter".

Tell me fanboy, do any of these matter?

*TV out resoultion(Twice that of the ipod). TV-out for almost DVD resolutions on your big screen.

*Colors of the screen 262k compared to 65k. That is quiet a difference in screen quality.

*video playback time

*codec support(WMV9/DivX/VidX/MPEG4)

*No Advanced conversions(ipod). Making the ipod all the harder to use when you cant use simple codecs.

*extra features: FM, recording, etc.

*picture viewing - zoom and pan

*custom equalizer. You would be suprised how much of difference this makes.

*Doesn't scratch like crap

*Superior sound quality(97db)

*Batter life: Hour and half more for audio, twice as much for video

*Customizable Themes + BackGround + Lighting settings

*Support for the WMA, DRM stores, tons of freedom in programs/stores

*Comes with AC Adapter+FM+ETC, while the ipod does not. Zen Vision sells for 315 with these itmes, and the ipod doesn't for 300 dollars.

No worries, I hate battery life and screen quality too. There stupid and pointless. :sleep:

2) "Bitey, I want simplicity. No extra stuff, no customization."

This is one of my favorites. In all my years of arguing with Mac users about operating systems(I only use Windows XP because I play Madden), one thing has stuck with me. It is, unlike Windows XP, apple prides itself in customization and more features in it's operating system. You can change just about anything, while XP you are rather locked in. It's seems like the ipod is like Windows XP, having one option, one size fits all. At least with the Zen, you are given choice. Want to have a personalized background? Cool. Want to have a personalized theme? Great. Want to control contrast and brightness? Wonderful. Want to keep things simple and not change anything for simplities sake? Super.

And that is what is cool. Customize to your hearts content, or just make things simple. YOUR choice.

3) "Ipod plays music and videos simple. No "word searching"

So does the Zen. It has simple menus with no word search and simple hierarchy. But you like to word search or alumb art search? Cool. That is YOUR choice. Your apple is using Zen's patent on the hierarchy anyway.

The second point, is generally the Zen is going to have better sound quality, and as the reviews have stated, superior video quality.

-----------

/end rant

Wasn't that fun, kids? Remember, tune in next time for Bitey v. Fanboy smackdown. :yes:

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I'm really getting sick of these unresearched and unfounded comments.

Most of the Arguements of the Zen are the following:

1) "Sorry bitey, but these extra functions of the zen don't matter".

Tell me fanboy, do any of these matter?

*TV out resoultion(Twice that of the ipod). TV-out for almost DVD resolutions on your big screen.

*Colors of the screen 262k compared to 65k. That is quiet a difference in screen quality.

*video playback time

*codec support(WMV9/DivX/VidX/MPEG4)

*No Advanced conversions(ipod). Making the ipod all the harder to use when you cant use simple codecs.

*extra features: FM, recording, etc.

*picture viewing - zoom and pan

*custom equalizer. You would be suprised how much of difference this makes.

*Doesn't scratch like crap

*Superior sound quality(97db)

*Batter life: Hour and half more for audio, twice as much for video

*Customizable Themes + BackGround + Lighting settings

*Support for the WMA, DRM stores, tons of freedom in programs/stores

*Comes with AC Adapter+FM+ETC, while the ipod does not. Zen Vision sells for 315 with these itmes, and the ipod doesn't for 300 dollars.

No worries, I hate battery life and screen quality too. There stupid and pointless. :sleep:

2) "Bitey, I want simplicity. No extra stuff, no customization."

This is one of my favorites. In all my years of arguing with Mac users about operating systems(I only use Windows XP because I play Madden), one thing has stuck with me. It is, unlike Windows XP, apple prides itself in customization and more features in it's operating system. You can change just about anything, while XP you are rather locked in. It's seems like the ipod is like Windows XP, having one option, one size fits all. At least with the Zen, you are given choice. Want to have a personalized background? Cool. Want to have a personalized theme? Great. Want to control contrast and brightness? Wonderful. Want to keep things simple and not change anything for simplities sake? Super.

And that is what is cool. Customize to your hearts content, or just make things simple. YOUR choice.

3) "Ipod plays music and videos simple. No "word searching"

So does the Zen. It has simple menus with no word search and simple hierarchy. But you like to word search or alumb art search? Cool. That is YOUR choice. Your apple is using Zen's patent on the hierarchy anyway.

The second point, is generally the Zen is going to have better sound quality, and as the reviews have stated, superior video quality.

-----------

/end rant

Wasn't that fun, kids? Remember, tune in next time for Bitey v. Fanboy smackdown. :yes:

omg could it be any more obvious that you are an iPod hater, c'mon.

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If any thing is a rip-off, it is Apple. Creative was making mp3 players before Apple even thought about it. Creative came up with the hierarchy interface you use with your ipod (not an opinion, please look up "Creative Patent").

Jeff(Admin misticriver) put it well:

Yet another uninformed Creative Fanboy, Creative was not the first to create a hierarchy interface. They just patented it just like they patented the f***ing play button. Apple sub contracted the GUI interface to a firm called PortalPlayer. Perhaps creative patented it, but Apple hardly stole anything, they sub contracted the work to another company. Just because someone patents something does not mean they were the first to use it or develop it ;)

I'm really getting sick of these unresearched and unfounded comments.

Most of the Arguements of the Zen are the following:

1) "Sorry bitey, but these extra functions of the zen don't matter".

Tell me fanboy, do any of these matter?

*TV out resoultion(Twice that of the ipod). TV-out for almost DVD resolutions on your big screen.

*Colors of the screen 262k compared to 65k. That is quiet a difference in screen quality.

*video playback time

*codec support(WMV9/DivX/VidX/MPEG4)

*No Advanced conversions(ipod). Making the ipod all the harder to use when you cant use simple codecs.

*extra features: FM, recording, etc.

*picture viewing - zoom and pan

*custom equalizer. You would be suprised how much of difference this makes.

*Doesn't scratch like crap

*Superior sound quality(97db)

*Batter life: Hour and half more for audio, twice as much for video

*Customizable Themes + BackGround + Lighting settings

*Support for the WMA, DRM stores, tons of freedom in programs/stores

*Comes with AC Adapter+FM+ETC, while the ipod does not. Zen Vision sells for 315 with these itmes, and the ipod doesn't for 300 dollars.

No worries, I hate battery life and screen quality too. There stupid and pointless. :sleep:

2) "Bitey, I want simplicity. No extra stuff, no customization."

This is one of my favorites. In all my years of arguing with Mac users about operating systems(I only use Windows XP because I play Madden), one thing has stuck with me. It is, unlike Windows XP, apple prides itself in customization and more features in it's operating system. You can change just about anything, while XP you are rather locked in. It's seems like the ipod is like Windows XP, having one option, one size fits all. At least with the Zen, you are given choice. Want to have a personalized background? Cool. Want to have a personalized theme? Great. Want to control contrast and brightness? Wonderful. Want to keep things simple and not change anything for simplities sake? Super.

And that is what is cool. Customize to your hearts content, or just make things simple. YOUR choice.

3) "Ipod plays music and videos simple. No "word searching"

So does the Zen. It has simple menus with no word search and simple hierarchy. But you like to word search or alumb art search? Cool. That is YOUR choice. Your apple is using Zen's patent on the hierarchy anyway.

The second point, is generally the Zen is going to have better sound quality, and as the reviews have stated, superior video quality.

-----------

/end rant

Wasn't that fun, kids? Remember, tune in next time for Bitey v. Fanboy smackdown. :yes:

Guess what, most iPod users do not care. The iPod community is sorry that you have nothing better to do with your time than to sit here and make an ass of yourself, but the fact is that most iPod users use their iPods for music. The new iPod 5G (if you are going to criticize something, at least get the name right. Apple doesn't put the G5 processing chip in the new iPods just in case you thought otherwise...) is a music player, video is an extra. The selling point for the iPod is its elegant and efficient. You might not care about that but guess what, it doesn't give you the right to start implying that its user base is stupid.

I bought an iPod because I would rather use something thats simple and easy to use, something thats intuitive and seamless rather than a brick. Even if that brick had a satellite dish so I could pick up Direct TV, I would use the iPod because I like the simplicity. It is an extension of the user because of its design, not simply another gadget. Thats why people like it, arguing numbers is arguing numbers. When you have to live with and use that machine everyday, those numbers become meaningless.

If you prefer the Creative player, fine, thats perfectly fine. Its a great player, offers lots of features. But don't be a raving lunatic towards people who choose something that they feel is simple and intuitive rather than the brick with a satellite (oh by the way, I'm not implying that the Zen has a satellite, its a metaphor ;))

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Again, another rant full of personal attacks (I love "too much time on your hand" rant from someone that has 1,774 posts) and no facts or reviews. You didn't even touch anything in my paragraph. Again, if the Zen is fat, the G4 and G3 are fat as well. So are the H320, H340, X5, among others. None of the reviewers had any problem with the "thickness" and cnet(proipod) said it felt good in the palm. The Zen is simple, the interface is very close to that of an ipod and extreme easy to use. I also fail to relieaze how things like Battery life, screen quality, sound quality, TV out, zoom photo, etc etc "Dont matter". Your also wrong about the patent, look it up. Who came out first with a mp3 player? Creative. Which mp3 player had the hierarchy first? Creative, due to the fact they had a mp3 player frist.

How I can be a fanboy when I support more the one DAP company is beyond me. I support Iriver, Iaudio, Creative , and other companies. In fact, if you go back a few pages, I was considering a G5 among about 10 other brand players. I would say your the fanboy, only supporting Apple stuff.

But I have heard your arguments some where. Ohh....wait that is the argument how customization and features don't matter. Much like a good Windows XP arguments.

Edited by Bitey
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Lol, this is too funny man, too funny. Listen, no one cares but you! I point out said that the Zen is a good player. It has nice features, and its a solid player. But its not right for some people. Its not peoples fault that you don't like the (once again) 5G iPod. There is no reason to troll. You can post all the reviews and specs you want, but it doesn't change the importance of design. If you are too immature to admit that, then thats not our fault. You think you are up on this pedestal, like you showed people. Guess what, you aren't. This random ranting is just laughable. So if I were you, leave the arrogance behind because its not wanted here.

Oh and unless you are blind which might be the case since you are repeating yourself in every post, I did address several issues in your rant. Actually most of it was in response to what you posted. You just do not understand why people buy things and therefore you label those who buy them fanboys and idiots! Again, it is really sad. I have much more important things to do with my time. My high post count isn't because I spend my time on Neowin attacking randomly in harmless conversations, its because I like it here and find the time to post on a regular basis.

Again m8, I'll say it once again. The Zen is a great player, no doubt about it. It has great specs and is not a bad choice. But for some, the design and simplicity of the iPod outweighs the complexity and lack of intuitiveness which is present in the Creative solution. It is as simple as that. If I'm going to dish out $300 dollars, I will spend it on what I want to and what I think based on what I read and what I use will best suit me. Call me a fanboy for being logical all you want but thats the simple fact right there. When people spend money, they don't simply rely on numbers, they rely on other important factors in conjunction with the specs.

I'll use my metaphor again. If I have $300 dollars to spend on a DAP, and my choices are a 1 pound brick with a satellite dish that has the best sound quality of anything else on the market with the ability to pick up Direct TV and Sirius Radio as well as play mp3's, and an iPod, I would go with the iPod. Hell if the choices were the brick and the Zen Vision, I would go with the Zen Vision. Sure the brick's specs are out standing which is fine, it doesn't make it a bad player, but I want to spend my money on something thats comfortable and thats going to suit me. Thats called common sense and sensible spending, not fanboyism ;)

Ok well I've wasted too much time on this thread, I've learned that when on forums you can argue till you are blue in the face with people who hear what they want to hear or in this case read but they still will not understand.

Oh PS: I am dead right about Apple sub contracting their interface. PortalPlayer developed the GUI for Apple. Thats a recorded fact, but it doesn't really matter, just like the Creative patent doesn't. If Apple is at fault, then iRiver is, Sony, Microsoft, and most other DAP producers ;) So tell me again whats you point? :rolleyes:

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Yea, I don't know where you getting all this ipod simplicity sh*t from, Creative players are right up there with simplicity imoh, i've had people pick up my micro and navigate through it like they own one. Tranferring files is a mere "drag" "drop" and hit "start sync" in WMP10, thats all you have to do. Time to think of some other reason to hate the competitor :pinch:

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Ummm its drag and drop with iTunes too. I plug my iPod in, iTunes starts up and all my music is listed. I then select those songs and drag them to the iPod icon in the iTunes sidebar. But the main point is the click wheel. It's very efficient and intuitive.

And again, I do not hate Creative. I actually love Creative, they make awesome products. I use only creative sound cards in my PC's. And the Zen is an awesome player, no doubt about it. But when given the choice between it and the iPod, I would take the iPod any day because it is what feels right. It is what feels good in my hand and Apple simply to me brings the best offer to the table. The specs might not be that of the Zen but the design aspects make up for it. Again, the Zen is a great player. I do not hate creative in the least, it is an awesome company. But I like the iPod better than the Zen. And my reasoning is why lots of others choose it over the offerings of Creative. Its as simple as that (pun not intended). That doesn't make us fanboys unlike others in this thread, but simply conscious buyers that happen to prefer a different product.

Its much like me choosing a PowerBook over a Thinkpad. Both are awesome laptops, but I choose the PowerBook because when considering what is right for me, it fit the bill. Thats being smart with you money and if you choose a creative player or an iRiver or any other DAP for the same reason, then thats perfectly fine.

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Monkeyclaw i'm not accusing you of being biased towards the ipod, my comments were directed more towards chrisgeleven as his arguement is rather weak, if more people actually knew what a zen was and tried out there navigation I think most would find it equalliy userfriendly as the ipods navigation. I don't think simplicity is the case here, its lack of advertising on Creative's part, when most people go into a store they want to know where the ipod's are located not where the mp3players are and maybe if they're lucky they'll see the other mp3players and get a little taste of the other "world".

"That doesn't make us fanboys unlike others in this thread, but simply conscious buyers that happen to prefer a different product. "

Yes, I understand this, unfortunately you have recieved a bad reputation from your "ipod userbase" as all they can seem to do is troll on our forums and bash our products with completely untrue "facts" and biased opinions. I'm not trying to generalize but most of these people are ignorant to other competitors to the ipod and thats easily shown in their posts.

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Well the same is true for others, fanboys on both sides are guilty of this. I just do not like it when people do make sweeping comments that have no merit and also those who try and attack a group of people simply because they like a certain product. I mean if you ask me its just not very classy and if you think about it really stupid. Its much like MS trolls invading the apple forums and causing havoc for no reason, which happens on occasion. Both sides are guilty and those who do it need to grow up, it is just a product afterwards.

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monkeyclaw, this might be off topic, but is your avatar from that werid ass Salad Fingers cartoon? Some mac kid at school had those videos, I didn't know whether to be amused or frightened.

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Hahaha, yep thats Hubert Cumberdale. At my school, I got my AP US History teachers Laptop hooked up to the projector and played the thing in class. People were laughing, crying and cowering, lol.

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Monkeyclaw i'm not accusing you of being biased towards the ipod, my comments were directed more towards chrisgeleven as his arguement is rather weak, if more people actually knew what a zen was and tried out there navigation I think most would find it equalliy userfriendly as the ipods navigation. I don't think simplicity is the case here, its lack of advertising on Creative's part, when most people go into a store they want to know where the ipod's are located not where the mp3players are and maybe if they're lucky they'll see the other mp3players and get a little taste of the other "world".

"That doesn't make us fanboys unlike others in this thread, but simply conscious buyers that happen to prefer a different product. "

Yes, I understand this, unfortunately you have recieved a bad reputation from your "ipod userbase" as all they can seem to do is troll on our forums and bash our products with completely untrue "facts" and biased opinions. I'm not trying to generalize but most of these people are ignorant to other competitors to the ipod and thats easily shown in their posts.

As you've stated, technical superiority doesn't mean anything if you can't market yourselves - I have yet to see Creative market themselves to the masses, geeks will notice, but so what?. The Vision:M is better in most categories, except in DRM music; WMA and AAC are both essentially propeitary and ITMS has a bigger selection of music (I have purchased music from there, as there are just some songs you cannot find through emule, bittorrent, etc). They also tie you to a particular system, if all DAP's supported all formats, it wouldn't matter.

What makes people fanboys is the silly arguing over nothing and not realizing that some people just don't care about xyz features, but they like what they like. The built-in sound of my mobo sounds better than my iPod, even when the iPod is connected to the same input, but I don't care, since I'm listening to my ipod though a pair of Philips earbuds, the fidelity just isn't there, especially with bass response. What I like about the ipod is the integration with itunes and the click wheel interface - any other player besides Winamp seems either bloated or too confusing, especially WMP 10.

Creative or iRiver or Cowon makes some sweet DAP's, but to me the hardware is only half the equation. For me to consider them, the sync software has to seamless and show me everything right there; podcasts, videos, audio, and occasionally a music store if I want to hear samples or artist info.

To sync Zencasts, you have to use a separate app; at least they're MP3's however.

An ipod is to mp3 players as Palm is to PDA's, Even though I have a Dell PDA, most people still refer to it as a "Palm." What Apple did right was come to market with the original ipod, that was neither a huge beast like the Creative Jukebox of 2000 or a undersized (memory-wise) player, it had style and some neat features (and a good marketing campaign). Where was Creative in 2001 or 2002?

As people attacking others for using a particular product, it's cut both ways in this thread.

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