A departure from OS X

[Dr.Jones]

Some people in here must be really stupid, if they need to use antispyware programs for like 20 hours a day. WTF do you keep downloading to get that much crap ? If you would just quit getting gay porn with kazaa, and do some actual work on a PC, who knows, maybe you can get that productivity you get with your Mac.

[betasp]

No...you stated that people are "more productive" on the Mac platform, and stated there are numerous studies showing this. I asked "doing what" meaning what are those people doing that they are more productive at, and you give me a link to an apple.com page about a supercomputer cluster. Now, I don't know about you, but I don't know many people that sit in their den working on fluid dynamics or nanotechnology.

As for the interface being more intuitive, that is very *very* debatable

People are writing papers, checking email and surfing the net, and again, that question was not in your post. Also, I was replying the post about doing what. Also, in your original post you mentined switching a few workstations from Mac over to PC for speed... are people doing that in their living rooms. A quick link on OSx usability.

[d4t4b0mb]

Some people in here must be really stupid, if they need to use antispyware programs for like 20 hours a day. WTF do you keep downloading to get that much crap ? If you would just quit getting gay porn with kazaa, and do some actual work on a PC, who knows, maybe you can get that productivity you get with your Mac.

While crude, I must agree. Switching platforms to save yourself from bad habits is a band-aid. I'm glad that Apple has created a platform that can rescue stupid people from doing stupid things, but there are people out there that can get by just fine without hand-holding.

People are writing papers, checking email and surfing the net, and again, that question was not in your post. Also, I was replying the post about doing what. Also, in your original post you mentined switching a few workstations from Mac over to PC for speed... are people doing that in their living rooms. A quick link on OSx usability.

Actually, that wasn't me. You're confused. I never said anything about switching workstations.

...and you really want to sit there and tell me that you can check your email faster on a Mac? That Word mysteriously allows you to write faster on a Mac?

You must have drank a keg of the Kool-Aid. :|

*edit*

Ok...since you seem to be having difficulty grasping...show me official studies showing that people are more efficient on the Apple platform. Don't link to some damn blog. I want something reputable. You did state official studies, right? I mean, official studies should be easy to find without resorting to blog entries, right?

Edited December 31, 2005 by d4t4b0mb

[pickleman]

See the pros and cons - http://www.xvsxp.com/

Radish?

From the Editor:

As you will no doubt deduce as you read this site, I prefer Macs. Just the same, I think this site is mostly objective.

yea, mostly objective.

I thought a mod would know better than to link to a biased website for comparison

tsk.

tsk.

[RadishTM Veteran]

yea, mostly objective.

I thought a mod would know better than to link to a biased website for comparison

tsk.

tsk.

Make your own mind up based on that website (the reason why I posted it), I have a Mac and a PC - both are as good as each other for me.

Radish?

[betasp]

...and you really want to sit there and tell me that you can check your email faster on a Mac? That Word mysteriously allows you to write faster on a Mac?

Actually it does, since Macs are easier to navigate and the menus are more logical. Again, if you have been using PCs as long as I have, it may not make a huge difference... but it does to most novice users. You also don't have you AV software or anti-spyware taking up CPU cycles. I wonder how many times the average PC user is interupted by the AV software updates and spyware updates, and the Windows Update prompting them to restart their computer. Keep in mind, I am not a fanboy, but everyone in my nuclear family is employed in computers and while Microsoft keeps us employed, we all use Macs at home. Also, the amount of spyware an average PC has slows it down tremendously.

[Dr.Jones]

Actually it does, since Macs are easier to navigate and the menus are more logical. Again, if you have been using PCs as long as I have, it may not make a huge difference... but it does to most novice users. You also don't have you AV software or anti-spyware taking up CPU cycles. I wonder how many times the average PC user is interupted by the AV software updates and spyware updates, and the Windows Update prompting them to restart their computer. Keep in mind, I am not a fanboy, but everyone in my nuclear family is employed in computers and while Microsoft keeps us employed, we all use Macs at home. Also, the amount of spyware an average PC has slows it down tremendously.

Goddamit, I have 0 spyware, and my AV never prompts me for Anything (Nod32). Mac OS X's menu are more logical FOR YOU, and windows update needs to restart the computer like once a month, if so. Stop spreading FUD please.

I know this is the switchers forum, and a lot of Apple fans hang out in here : I'm not flaming anyone for their choice over Apple or MS or Linux or whatever, just don't spread lies and **** about Windows. If Mac OS X is that great (and it probably is) why don't you spread good stuff about it ? Actually that could get more people to switch, instead of keeping this religious conflict going on, and ****ing off yet more Windows user, that in return will stay angry at Mac users.

[betasp]

oddamit, I have 0 spyware, and my AV never prompts me for Anything (Nod32). Mac OS X's menu are more logical FOR YOU, and windows update needs to restart the computer like once a month, if so. Stop spreading FUD please.

I know this is the switchers forum, and a lot of Apple fans hang out in here : I'm not flaming anyone for their choice over Apple or MS or Linux or whatever, just don't spread lies and **** about Windows. If Mac OS X is that great (and it probably is) why don't you spread good stuff about it ? Actually that could get more people to switch, instead of keeping this religious conflict going on, and ****ing off yet more Windows user, that in return will stay angry at Mac users.

Again, you are the exception and you are not follwoing the recommendations of most PC makers. Good for you. My NOD prompts me for product updates, but they may be because I have not bothered configuring it not to bother me.

I don't spread lies about Windows. I just tell the truth. AV and anti-spyware are recommended. MS did copy Apple original interface specs and has not deviated much since. Studies have shown OSX easier to use for novice users and those who have not been exposed to computers before. I am sorry you are getting so emotional about this conversation.

[GoogleNinja]

I thought a mod would know better than to link to a biased website for comparison

tsk.

tsk.

Let's cry a river about it, shall we? I'll start :cry:

:rolleyes:

[d4t4b0mb]

Dude, seriously, that is completely subjective, and my personal experiences are almost completely the opposite. You're just repeating marketing mantra and rhetoric now. Updates for Windows come out second tuesday of every month, and by default is set to download at 3am. That's no more distracting than the updates Apple puts out.

Again, you are the exception and you are not follwoing the recommendations of most PC makers. Good for you. My NOD prompts me for product updates, but they may be because I have not bothered configuring it not to bother me.

I don't spread lies about Windows. I just tell the truth. AV and anti-spyware are recommended. MS did copy Apple original interface specs and has not deviated much since. Studies have shown OSX easier to use for novice users and those who have not been exposed to computers before. I am sorry you are getting so emotional about this conversation.

I have NOD32 set up on three systems here to automatically update in the background and not prompt. The only time it prompts is if it can't update for a set amount of time. Had you actually taken your time and read the setup dialogs you would have noticed the section that allows you to enable this. Right during initial setup. This leads me to believe you probably clicked blindly through the installation without reading. Not good computing practices and probably explains the issues your family had with spyware installation. But that's just speculation on my part.

And again, SHOW ME THESE STUDIES TO WHICH YOU KEEP REFERRING.

[Ambience]

You can't say Macs are more productive than PCs, nor can you say PCs are more productive than Macs simply because productivity is the rate at which a human works, and therefore relies upon his/her ability to work, not the machine they are working with.

You can argue all you want about how OSX may be easier to navigate - I personally can't see how Start -> Programs could be any more logical, but each to his own.

For the topic starter: Go for it. If you're looking to play games, I don't even know why you bought yourself such a top-of-the-line system marketed at graphic artists.

[betasp]

Dude, seriously, that is completely subjective, and my personal experiences are almost completely the opposite. You're just repeating marketing mantra and rhetoric now. Updates for Windows come out second tuesday of every month, and by default is set to download at 3am. That's no more distracting than the updates Apple puts out.

I have NOD32 set up on three systems here to automatically update in the background and not prompt. The only time it prompts is if it can't update for a set amount of time. Had you actually taken your time and read the setup dialogs you would have noticed the section that allows you to enable this. Right during initial setup. This leads me to believe you probably clicked blindly through the installation without reading. Not good computing practices and probably explains the issues your family had with spyware installation. But that's just speculation on my part.

And again, SHOW ME THESE STUDIES TO WHICH YOU KEEP REFERRING.

"Mac-using professionals spent far more hours per week -- 19 vs. 13 -- in actual, billable authoring time; Windows users spent more of their time tied up in such activities as training, support, data communications and file management." and "Mac-using creative professionals produce $26,441 more in annual revenue and $14,488 more in net profit for their employers than Windows users of comparable skill engaged in similar work. New Power Macs pay for themselves in four and a half months, on average, compared with about 13 months for Windows based systems. And over three years, Power Macs generate more than a sevenfold ROI; for Windows, the return is barely double." [Return of Investment Tech Brief]

Also check out.

http://www.macworld.com/news/2002/06/13/deal/

http://www.macvspc.info/

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,87189,00.asp

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/10/10/1065676145670.html

PS. I typically don't have configuration issues on Windows machines, and I don't let applciations update in the background since they may break other things that I may have running. Please note that I am an MCSE and MCBDA... as well as CCNA. Also, go check out the Gardner Group for REAL good research, but it tends to be a bit pricey.

[d4t4b0mb]

"Mac-using professionals spent far more hours per week -- 19 vs. 13 -- in actual, billable authoring time; Windows users spent more of their time tied up in such activities as training, support, data communications and file management." and "Mac-using creative professionals produce $26,441 more in annual revenue and $14,488 more in net profit for their employers than Windows users of comparable skill engaged in similar work. New Power Macs pay for themselves in four and a half months, on average, compared with about 13 months for Windows based systems. And over three years, Power Macs generate more than a sevenfold ROI; for Windows, the return is barely double." [Return of Investment Tech Brief]

Also check out.

http://www.macworld.com/news/2002/06/13/deal/

http://www.macvspc.info/

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,87189,00.asp

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/10/10/1065676145670.html

PS. I typically don't have configuration issues on Windows machines, and I don't let applciations update in the background since they may break other things that I may have running. Please note that I am an MCSE and MCBDA... as well as CCNA. Also, go check out the Gardner Group for REAL good research, but it tends to be a bit pricey.

Ok...finally...some links. Don't know if you bothered to read them, but links nonetheless. The macvspc site I will completely disregard, because I cannot expect a honest opinion of any site that proclaims across the top "The Study Of Why Macs Are Better Than PCs". Sorry, just can't do it. Macworld link...don't see anything about how people are more productive using an Apple, just that they are cheaper to maintain and people require less training. Less software = Less software training. Next, PC Magazine 'Support and Satisfaction' Survey...with Apple in the lead. GO FIGURE. Original thread starter states he's not satisfied with his G5, and it's like a pack of rabid wolves unleashed on a rabbit. The SMH site...finally something interesting that in some way remotely relates to productivity. Except...wait, what's this?

Both XP and OS X scored the same score on ease-of-use. PC won in the "Software" "Cost" and "Performance" categories, and the Apple won in "Stability" and "Style and Design" (go figure). At final tabulation...OS X won...by three points out of 60.

The Mac - but not by much. We've given it a score of 48 out of 60, while the PC received 45.

The Mac won primarily because of its design and if it had kept its lead in usability, the margin would have been greater. Also, its performance suffered slightly but this is likely to be remedied by the new G5 processors. However, we do believe PCs are better suited for games and running specific software titles.

Specific software titles...like what one would find in...say...an office or workplace environment?

As for your pedigree and cerifications...impressive. Still doesn't change the fact you couldn't figure out an antivirus app. :whistle:

[Alladaskill17]

I hate to break it to ya, but i run 2 pcs with windows Xp on them, and i myself dont use antispyware nor an antivirus, and i have 2 years and running with one and 5 months with the other, and i have yet to find either spyware or viruses on my pcs. How is OS X easier to use, and how is it more intuitive, are you just throwing words out there just for fun or because you actually have a point to prove?

...to THAT retard...you probly havnt found anything because your not running any software taht looks for it. Also, the only possible way to not have something bad on a windows machine is to NOT HAVE INTERNET ACCESS....its sad really... :cry:

[xp1ode]

...to THAT retard...you probly havnt found anything because your not running any software taht looks for it. Also, the only possible way to not have something bad on a windows machine is to NOT HAVE INTERNET ACCESS....its sad really... :cry:

lol, sorry but who's the retard? Have you ever heard of online virus scans? I do it just in case to prove points such as the one stated in this thread. As far as the spyware goes, there are several ways to tell if you have spyware running on machines, i know becuase i also take care of the 4 other pcs in the house, and one way is to scan, obviously, and others are by watching what programs try to make outside connections, thats where my zone alarm firewall come in handy. It lets me know everything that tries to connect to the outside of the net. Next comes, the task manager, if people have spyware, many of the programs run without you knowing, but low and behold they show in your task manager, as to which i check on a regular basis, since my desktop pc is not top of the line, so i worry about my memory usage, and the apps i run.

Now is there something that you know, that i dont as to what would classify me as a retard? It would be interesting to know, also the fact that i dont have any of these antispyware and antivirus installed, does not mean that i dont own any. NAV for example, before you install it, it asks if you would like to scan your pc, to which i did the day i got my laptop.

TO d4t4bomb:

I also looked at those pages he linked to, and i agree with what you said, i see how the Mac on, but it was only based on the points they gave it because of the its looks and stability. But in my case, i dont see how the Mac on with stability, because my PC just runs the same way as the first time i installed windows about a ayear ago. I keep my regedit nice and clean, and the rest of my folders, of course thats not to say that i may have some leftovers from programs that i delete, but as far as i know, they dont slow down my pc at all, my processes are at a steady 23 on boot up. So imo, i say the Mac only wins on the style part, which i just have to give you guys that one, the Mac has a very flashy OS, looks nice and clean at a glance.

[NeoXY]

anyone ever think that macs just...well....suck?

I think the majority of macnuts have never truly used a Windows based system. Sure, they may have used them at school but that's about it.

They are just as clueless about WindowsXP as they say Xp users are about OSX.

I..don't think so. Every single PC (and than some) was build by my own 2 hands and I have ran quite a few servers in my life time...infect I spend more time on a PC than I would like too...so no. I am not a "OS X" fan boy, I truly do know what I'm talking about. Especially with a PC ;)

That being said, I still like my Mac better. Honestly when I go home I can really sit down afront of my PB with a cup of coffee, read my mail, read my news, chat for some and than take a look at my work with no interuption from the computer!

When I'm on my PC, every 20 minutes my firewall tells me this program is trying to access the internet... so do I Allow it? So now I got to look up the process, make sure its safe, tell it yes, go back to my work and lose my train of thought. Another 20 minutes pass all of a sudden "Your spyware definition needs to be updated, would you like to do that now!" Yes...wait for it to update wait for it to finish scanning, go back to my work...yeah. Lost my train of thought...

See what I'm getting at? Yes I can get my PC and Mac to both be productive but to be honest, the Mac JUST REQUIRE LESS WORK PERIOD and that's why for me it helps me to be more productive..

Edited January 1, 2006 by NeoXY

[d4t4b0mb]

...to THAT retard...you probly havnt found anything because your not running any software taht looks for it. Also, the only possible way to not have something bad on a windows machine is to NOT HAVE INTERNET ACCESS....its sad really... :cry:

You, quite simply, have -no idea- what you are talking about.

[Shuu]

windows/os x discussions bring out the best in people, eh?

[d4t4b0mb]

windows/os x discussions bring out the best in people, eh?

I don't get it. I just don't get it, seriously. I try to not take these threads seriously or let them get me riled up, but honestly, I don't have these problems these guys are always talking about, and since I'm the unofficial "computer guy" for seemingly every person that's ever met me, I've never heard anyone complain about all the problems the Apple guys are always say plague Windows-based PCs.

[xp1ode]

I don't get it. I just don't get it, seriously. I try to not take these threads seriously or let them get me riled up, but honestly, I don't have these problems these guys are always talking about, and since I'm the unofficial "computer guy" for seemingly every person that's ever met me, I've never heard anyone complain about all the problems the Apple guys are always say plague Windows-based PCs.

That makes 2 of us. Maybe is time some of those people that have switched to Mac and have never looked back give windows XP another try for some time and see how much better it is and how easy it is to operate. Not that it's operability has changed much. Anyways some of these arguments about how which one is better, sometimes it only comes down to preference.

[GoogleNinja]

I don't get it. I just don't get it, seriously. I try to not take these threads seriously or let them get me riled up, but honestly, I don't have these problems these guys are always talking about, and since I'm the unofficial "computer guy" for seemingly every person that's ever met me, I've never heard anyone complain about all the problems the Apple guys are always say plague Windows-based PCs.

If you don't get it, feel free to leave. You obviously are "riled up" seeing how many posts you have in this thread alone. Links have been posted and you keep arguing, with nothing more to back your opinion up than "in my experience" crap.

What does it matter? Does someone thinking they can be more productive with OS X hurt you psychologically? Are you trying to protect others with your opinion against their opinion debates? Do something better with your time than sitting here arguing with people.

PS: "I've never heard anyone complain about all the problems the Apple guys are always say plague Windows-based PCs"? WTF?

[Yvo]

If it took you ten hours to maintain a PC per week...I don't think the problem was with the PC. :sleep:

Excuse me?

You might be the unofficial "computer guy" to your friends and family, however that doesn't make you an expert.

10 hours is a mild estimate on what i used to spend between 3 PCs i owned (now down to one). On average it was more like 2 hours a week (running defrag programs, antivirus programs, antispyware, and generally doing optimizations to keep it running as if it was freshly formatted). The reason the number is high because when I have to format 3 PCs and take the time to download and/or install the drivers for my motherboard, graphics card, sound card, monitor, 2 printers, scanner. Sure one could create an unattended installation image, however I'd still have to get the updated drivers (graphics & chipset primarily). Then I have to install all the software and wait for it to install. That basically takes a Saturday of work that I am not getting paid for. so do that on average 3-4 times a year (and thats not including the maintenance on my mom, dad, brothers and sisters pc, which is all unpaid work), yes it does work to be 10 hours a week.

On my iMac @ home, I don't have to reformat, defrag, worry about viruses and spyware. Better yet... I plug in my 2 printers (laserjet and photo) and they are installed.. done... no work. I hookup my scanner... done. Sure one can say Tiger is more recent so includes newer drivers, however my Laserjet is older then Windows 2000 and Windows XP SP2 included new drivers (if you slipstreamed it) as it installs basic WDM drivers for my ATI Radeon 9800. I only have to check permissions and run MacJanitor once every week and that takes up 10 minutes.

Then my mom & sister, well they gots Macs now and since then I only get called once a month on a question in an application like iPhoto or insert app here, but no more calls on "fix my computers". Further more because I am also the computer guy to many, I have started recommending Macs to the people that always needed my help. Since they purchased their Mac and after the initial 1 week time it takes to adjust (thats the average for a mid 40s soccer mom I have noticed) I never get emails or phone calls anymore asking for me to come over and get paid $40 (because I have been doing it for them since i was 13 and now I'm 20 with a job that gives me a good salary) for 4-5 hours of work because they borked or installed something they shouldn't have.

I don't need proof from some website telling me Macs are more productive then Windows XP computers. From a support perspective, they are a god send. I can now focus on my job & girlfriend. So now when I talk to family and/or neighbors... we talk about new ways to use their Mac. I have one lady who hated her computer a year ago and only did the basic necessity of surfing & emails. She now wants to do video editing.

Personally I don't give a damn if you believe me or not. You can go back to your precious PC. But personally insulting me by saying it isn't the computer that is the problem... well frack off.

[d4t4b0mb]

If you don't get it, feel free to leave. You obviously are "riled up" seeing how many posts you have in this thread alone. Links have been posted and you keep arguing, with nothing more to back your opinion up than "in my experience" crap.

What does it matter? Does someone thinking they can be more productive with OS X hurt you psychologically? Are you trying to protect others with your opinion against their opinion debates? Do something better with your time than sitting here arguing with people.

PS: "I've never heard anyone complain about all the problems the Apple guys are always say plague Windows-based PCs"? WTF?

Like I said in my first post, one of the biggest problems I have with Apple systems is their users. A*sholes that act like you are the perfect example of that. I've yet to read a point proven in this thread, other than the opinions of others...yet their opinions are valid while mine are not, merely because I'm not blindly following along with marketing tripe and propaganda.

You, however, can't contribute anything to this thread other than attacking me for my opinions. Grow the f*ck up already, because your little act is getting old.

Excuse me?

You might be the unofficial "computer guy" to your friends and family, however that doesn't make you an expert.

<snip> blah blah blah. blah blah blah, blah blah, blah. </snip>

Personally I don't give a damn if you believe me or not. You can go back to your precious PC. But personally insulting me by saying it isn't the computer that is the problem... well frack off.

You basically say your personal experiences and opinions are valid, while mine are not, even though from what you've just stated, our roles are the same, but opinions differ. Ok, fair enough. What exactly have you accomplished that would somehow define you as an "expert", since by your definition I am not? Had you taken the time to clarify your statement then maybe I wouldn't have said it the way I did. But you stated you spend 10 hours a week maintaining your PC. Period. Next time clarify and don't get your panties in a bunch.

OT; "frack" sounds corny enough on the show. Even moreso when used outside the show. :rolleyes:

Edited January 1, 2006 by d4t4b0mb

[xp1ode]

Excuse me?

You might be the unofficial "computer guy" to your friends and family, however that doesn't make you an expert.

10 hours is a mild estimate on what i used to spend between 3 PCs i owned (now down to one). On average it was more like 2 hours a week (running defrag programs, antivirus programs, antispyware, and generally doing optimizations to keep it running as if it was freshly formatted). The reason the number is high because when I have to format 3 PCs and take the time to download and/or install the drivers for my motherboard, graphics card, sound card, monitor, 2 printers, scanner. Sure one could create an unattended installation image, however I'd still have to get the updated drivers (graphics & chipset primarily). Then I have to install all the software and wait for it to install. That basically takes a Saturday of work that I am not getting paid for. so do that on average 3-4 times a year (and thats not including the maintenance on my mom, dad, brothers and sisters pc, which is all unpaid work), yes it does work to be 10 hours a week.

On my iMac @ home, I don't have to reformat, defrag, worry about viruses and spyware. Better yet... I plug in my 2 printers (laserjet and photo) and they are installed.. done... no work. I hookup my scanner... done. Sure one can say Tiger is more recent so includes newer drivers, however my Laserjet is older then Windows 2000 and Windows XP SP2 included new drivers (if you slipstreamed it) as it installs basic WDM drivers for my ATI Radeon 9800. I only have to check permissions and run MacJanitor once every week and that takes up 10 minutes.

...

I don't need proof from some website telling me Macs are more productive then Windows XP computers. From a support perspective, they are a god send. I can now focus on my job & girlfriend. So now when I talk to family and/or neighbors... we talk about new ways to use their Mac. I have one lady who hated her computer a year ago and only did the basic necessity of surfing & emails. She now wants to do video editing.

Personally I don't give a damn if you believe me or not. You can go back to your precious PC. But personally insulting me by saying it isn't the computer that is the problem... well frack off.

How often do you really do those things that it actully takes time away from your girlfriend and the rest of the things you do. I mean come one, the only reason you took the time to explain all that is because of that he said isnt it? Because i do the same thing you do, i defrag, clean and keep my windows xp machines running just fine. Thats not to say that my desktop still uses pc133, as opposed to my laptop which uses pc2700 and i have them both running the same, as fast as i need them. Like i stated earlier, why would it be such a problem to have your computer defrag and do it's cleaning over night, im sure you are aware that you can have your pc shut off after a certain period of time right? If not then im sure you can find that out. And is not that some people get riled up, is just that some of us actually like some good arguments, we like to be challenged and like to challege people, and if that gets him or anyone else riled up, the why is that such a terrible thing, it actually makes the argument much better, sometimes. Some of you people just need to realize that arguments is what forums are all about, and getting rilled up, while not disrespecting anyone, is always good. Windows XP may not be as pretty and stable as OS X, but it sure as hell is not far off, and im sure many people here will agree, that yes the average user may have some problems with spyware and viruses, but that doesnt mean that the OS itself is plagued by so many faults people like to point out happen to some of them. Problems happen in every single piece of technology out there, it all depends on who uses it, and how they use it, and arguments is what drive forums.

(Is fun to argue while drunk :o :p :D )

Edited January 1, 2006 by xp1ode

[GoogleNinja]

Like I said in my first post, one of the biggest problems I have with Apple systems is their users. A*sholes that act like you are the perfect example of that.

Oh, great. Now he's resorting to flaming. That'll help you prove your point and win you friends.

PS: The opinions of others are valid because links were posted proving those opinions. Sit here and whine about it all you want, it doesn't change the fact you've lost the argument.