Ashamed if your Child was gay?

[Leddy]

To say I have nothing against gays but I wouldnt want my son to be gay dosent quite add up. However it is intresting, If I was to say I dont have a problem with a person of mixed race however I do not want my daughter to marry a white man, would that be wrong? does it make sense? It comes down to the most basic principle of preservation, some people wantto preserve there race, therfore marrying out of race it just unnacceptable, this is the case with my parents, they will look for me to marry a punjabi girl to keep the punjabi race alive, they wouldn't dream of me marrying a white/black women. I however dont share there views, we are all human after all. The same applies for a gay child but instead of preserving a race you are now preserving your blood line and the human race, now I can see why people might find that hard to let go of. I want my blood line to continue, the human race will continue regardless, does that make me as bad as my parents in wanting there race to continue? prehaps, unfortuantley that is the world as it stands today. With our ever growing world population having homesexual humans might not be considered as such a bad thing...

Then what they've said was not an accurate expression of their opinion. What they really mean, is that:

"I don't have any problem with people not affecting me being gay."

[crackhbob]

I can't believe there are so many of you that would be ashamed. I would've thought since this was a tech community that people would have more of an open mind. :|

[Malisk]

(Not directed at any particular poster)

The whole arguement of reproduction and the human race is rather moot. We're 6 billion strong, I don't think having a few people here and there choose not to reproduce is going to kill off our species anytime soon.

True -- a fraction of people have always been gay, it's just not been as accepted by society as today. Despite this, we're fighting population growth, not the reverse. This is obviously not a problem, it's rather the reverse. :) That so many have more than two kids -- far more than the number of gay people.

It comes down to the most basic principle of preservation, some people wantto preserve there race, therfore marrying out of race it just unnacceptable, this is the case with my parents, they will look for me to marry a punjabi girl to keep the punjabi race alive, they wouldn't dream of me marrying a white/black women.

:s

I'd say -- **** your race ;) Really, I never understood the logic behind that. Placing gene pool preservation above love. Same with some here that wish to preserve our language and don't "like" certain new words. Jeez, so they mostly wish everyone to have spoken an early medieval dialect? :p Some people just go to absurd lengths to preserve traditions, for what gain besides preserving the traditions? Accepting new things in your lives has often led to enlightenment, and I hate ignorance.

Btw, you seem to have missed that more people aren't becoming gay, it's about more people daring to say they're gay since it's more acceptable.

Edited January 11, 2006 by Jugalator

[Deathray]

Do you have proof that this would happen to the child? And how come there ARE homosexual children when their parents are straight? Does that not mean that a child growing up with homosexual parents can become straight? I think it does.

THINK ABOUT YOUR ARGUMENT.

I'm sorry, I know you're pro gay and everything, but fail to realize something in the reply you make.

There is another side to the coin, not just whether the child will become homosexual or heterosexual, but about how the child would be treated at school and anywhere else. Discrimination is common, and as many have perhaps experienced first hand, discrimination can have a significant affect on children.

I could see the mental/psychological abuse extending from the fact that a childs parents are homosexual... It's in the end the adults option to adopt a child or to do what they must to have a child, but there is an obvious cause for concern on how their relationship will reflect and affect the child.

I remember reading about a study on children who have divorced parents and/or constantly fighting parents, and it does have its affect on the children. I would think similar studies should be conducted on children to see how they are accepted and how they feel before anyone actually makes assumptions about the life of a child with homosexual parents. Clearly it's possible that genetics can define a persons root behaviour, but it's foolish to believe that the environment in which they live in will not have any affect on them. Be that environment home, school, or other public areas...

Just because you think it's ok, doesn't mean that everyone will agree with that idea and just accept it... as clearly shown by this thread... not everyone does... so the possibility of discrimination is clearly present.

[kinetix63 Veteran]

Then what they've said was not an accurate expression of their opinion. What they really mean, is that:

"I don't have any problem with people not affecting me being gay."

Out of interest, can you explain why it is different when it is somebody close to you?

[Leddy]

I can't believe there are so many of you that would be ashamed. I would've thought since this was a tech community that people would have more of an open mind. :|

Just because we don't accept something with open arms doesn't mean we're of closed minds.

Since we can only pick one sexual orientation (male, female, or both), it's not surprising that many people have difficulty accepting openly another sexual orientation. There's no blurry line. You're either hetero-, bi-, or homo-.

You can't pick two religions and believe in both of them, can you?

[tbcarey]

Your post isn't very thoughtful.

If homosexuality is truely a choice, then why can't we be thoughtful AND choose heterosexuality?

It's like religion. Religion is a choice. If I was a christian, (which i'm not), wouldn't I be at least disappointed (if not angry!) that my (hypothetical) child took up Islam?

Being ashamed of a child doesn't necessarily have to do with the ability to love him (or her.) I can be ashamed of a child and still love that child.

I'd like to think of myself as a kind, loving, and considerate person. I'm very open to different opinions and thoughts, and my only points of inflexibility are on religion (I'm non-religious and don't like people trying to convert me), and sexual orientation (I'm straight, and don't like homosexuality). It's just what I think, and on all accounts I'm entitled to that, as long as I don't diss people who are homosexual.

And YOU, being the thoughtful person that you are, should know that.

No, your post seems to be the one lacking depth. The only choice you can be certain of when it comes to sexuality is your choice to react to it in a specific way. There is no conclusive evidence as to whether sexuality is a choice or biological, so you're assuming an awful lot to pigeon-hole it into one category.

In any case, if you are 'thoughtful', that means you put the feelings of others before your own. In that case, you wouldn't be 'ashamed' of a child, merely concerned for their well-being. Why should you be 'ashamed' of someone who doesn't have exactly the same preferences as you do? Would you be 'ashamed' if your child had differing political beliefs? How is this any different? Shame comes as a result of disgust with a particular action or person; disappointment is an entirely different story, because it is the result of concern. I don't see how you can love a child whose life choices disgust you. If, however, you decide that you're more concerned for their feelings than your own, you will be supportive and loving of them regardless of whether you 'like' everything they do or not. If you think you will 'like' everything your child decides to pursue in life, then you're in for a world of disappointment.

[accesser]

No.

You will only screw them up or make your relationship with them bad if you where against it people are different the earth would be boring and really scary if everybody and there kids where the same.

[Leddy]

No, your post seems to be the one lacking depth. The only choice you can be certain of when it comes to sexuality is your choice to react to it in a specific way. There is no conclusive evidence that sexuality is a choice or biological, so you're assuming an awful lot to pigeon-hole it into one category.

In any case, if you are 'thoughtful', that means you put the feelings of others before your own. In that case, you wouldn't be 'ashamed' of a child, merely concerned for their well-being. Why should you be 'ashamed' of someone who doesn't have exactly the same preferences as you do? Would you be 'ashamed' if your child had differing political beliefs? How is this any different? Shame comes as a result of disgust with a particular action or person; disappointment is an entirely different story, because it is the result of concern. I don't see how you can love a child whose life choices disgust you. If, however, you decide that you're more concerned for their feelings than your own, you will be supportive and loving of them regardless of whether you 'like' everything they do or not. If you think you will 'like' everything your child decides to pursue in life, then you're in for a world of disappointment.

Being "thoughtful" is being someone who considers different pathways and considers different opinions and views.

If my child had different political beliefs, he could bring my lineage into disgrace. However, if my child was gay, chances are I won't have a lineage to speak of. There's a difference. (and yes, my lineage is important to me.)

If you don't see how you can love a child which you are not entirely happy with- are ashamed of- then you are not truly understanding of the depth and power that love can have. You've probably never truly loved another- and it's not something that can be taught with text on a computer screen. You have to go out there, and experience it. Maybe your opinion will change when you actually have a child of your own to speak of.

I know many mothers who might have reason to be ashamed or disappointed in their child. One particular mother i know has a child with Downs Syndrome. As you all know, it's not very convenient or good for your image to have a child with this disability, and she isn't very happy about it but she loves him all the same. It's her child- and that's enough for her to weather the sea of disappointment that her child may bring her.

We can be ashamed of a person and yet still love them. They're not mutually exclusive. You really, really have to know that.

[Cvrt7.62Ghst]

Out of interest, can you explain why it is different when it is somebody close to you?

Because then you love them. Love overpowers, or at least lessens, the feelings that you have against their lifestyle.

I have gay friends. I tollerate what they do for the sake of our friendship. They know I do not, and never will, endorse their lifestyle. I still love them, and they still love me, just there are areas where we are on opposing sides. That's life and relationships.

[stadsport]

So I wasn't originally going to reply to this, but apparently I'm just spouting my opinions and tossing out any that don't agree with me. And believe me, I am.

[Edit] Fantastic. This forum has a set limit on quotes per post. Readers will have to deal with it.

stadsport:

wtf are you talking about man,

this is a DISCUSSION BOARD... to DISCUSS!

so because there are many people who say the opposite of what you say you're gonna stop? that's real good...

My point was, this entire thread is a debate that I've had several times, and it gets old. I've come to the conclusion that, for the most part, you can't change someone's ideals, regardless of how stupid they are.

Well gee I wonder why you would have that opinion. I don't have a problem with people choosing to be gay, but, if my child was, it would mean that I did not teach him or her to make good decisions.

A gay guy who's not against homosexuality? Stop the presses.

Oh, and it has nothing to do with teaching. I have the best parents any child could hope for, and somehow I turned out gay.

No way would I be able to accept my child being gay. It goes against every moral fibre in my body and the way I have been brought up. :angry:

I would feel a failure for not bringing my kid up to believe what I as his parent believes.

My 2 cents.

See above.

Good Riddance.

If you can't handle, people sharing oppinions and beliefs, then just stay away ... Seriously.

When other people's oppinions and beliefs are descriminate against who I am, then yeah, I'd probably want to stay away. Don't stress over that thought pattern too much.

So that guy sleeping with another guy... he can do the same thing with a girl if im not mistaken. Why he's doing it with another guy n not a girl? Thats bcoz he has chosen a different kind of pleasure. He HAS chosen it. Why me as a parent will agree with this kind of choice?

Hardly. Do you every stop and think "Gee, I wonder what ****ing a guy would be like," and go out and try it? No, having sex with men (for straight men) is a turn off. You've never tried sex with another man, but you know you wouldn't like it, right? Flip it around. What if you DID like it? What if just the idea of having sex with men got you a halfjob? I think it'd be pretty obvious that something is literally different with you--it has nothing to do with deciding to up and have sex with guys.

There are also studies that show the Environment in which the child is brought up does not have any impact on if a child will be gay or not gay.

And lets remember there are Bisexual people who do make a choice if they want to be with a same sex partner or not. A small minority where there Environment could shape there feelings to a particular gender or individual.

Part 1: Correct

Part 2: Bisexuality is mostly a myth, atleast among men. Only about 0.1% of all men who claim to be bisexual are truly sexually arroused by both sexes. There was an article (lost the link, sorry) in which a study was conducted. Basically, it's gay, straight, or lying. Women are another story.

Exactly. :yes:

Yes yes yes.

This actualy makes me laugh out loud. They sit here and preach "Accept me and all of me!" and than they don't accept other peoples views. If anyone is a biggot here, it is them.

Think about what you're saying. If a black person comes into a forum and everyone's saying "Man I hate blacks," what the hell do you expect them to do? Say "Oh gee whiz that's fine with me"

If you called me fat, or stupid or something, I can argue that. But discriminating against me for being gay is attacking me for who I am, and it's not fun to deal with.

Sorry, I think you are just flat out wrong. This goes back to the last page, where I stated that I do not belive this is hereditary/genetic/whatever - it's a CHOICE. I choose to be attrated to women, they choose to be attracted to men.

See above. You're wrong, end of story.

Attraction is not a choice buddy... Now there are some idiots who try out gay experiences out of choice, "curioucity." For the record, if I found out my kid did that, I would knock the crap out of them. But some people are just biologically gay. You do not choose to be attracted to someone, it's instinct. What if you're a guy and you have a biological disorder that makes you attracted to male pheromones instead of female ones? You think that's not possible? Genetic errors are more common now than ever, with our preserved foods and radiation.

Kicking the crap out of your kid for exploring his/her sexuality. That's good parenting right here, folks.

Ure mixing everything. If my kid was born with some kind of biological disorder and nothing could b done, thats another story. But if my kid was born normal and chooses to b gay, hell no I wont accept that.

It's not a disorder, but being gay is biological. There's nothing that can be done, short of changing one's genetic code, which...can't be done.

The people saying that there needs to be a cure for being gay, you make me sick.

****ing signed.

Well as a fully straight male of 17 without a child, I'd say that I would be very ashamed of a gay child, as I'm strictly against homosexuality. But who's to say that if I was to have a child that was gay, you couldn't just disown it.

Again, good parenting. Disown your child for him being gay. That'll show him how to love and respect you.

If gay is an abnormal error in human code, then the people who are gay would want a medicine for it. And they would wish that they were not gay. Its like a person being born blind, if they could see, they would want to.

I'm sure people with mental retardation wished they were like everyone else.

Which still makes me believe homos choose to be homos.

A good way to choose your sexuality, is to let a man take advantage of you at about 4-5.

For an interesting movie watch Mysterious Skin.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/mysterious_skin/

You need to touch up on your 9th grade biology. You can't get MEDICINE for genetic code. It just doesn't work that way. I'm gay, and yes, it was hard coming to grips with it (mostly because the world is full of people like those found right here on Neowin--it's mostly society's pressure that makes it hard). But now, looking back, I wouldn't change it. To want to change it is to want to change who I am, which would make me self-hating. And this is not the case.

And you're again wrong with the idea that molestation changes your sexuality. I was never molested, beaten, starved, deprived, or abused in any way as a child.

ooo, I aint touching this one with a large stick lol

(Runs away)

lol, I see what you did there.

Yep, it's like choosing to be Emo or Gothic. CHOICE!

For the love of god, don't even compare emo/goth to homosexuality. One is a single chunk of genetic code missing/present, and the other is 16 year old kids whose parents don't get home until 6pm so they walk around town acting like they have a drug problem.

OK, so let's go the 100% scientific route shall we? Right...

"Gay" is scientifically wrong as it is not procreation and therefore we will have less kids. And "gayness" is basically a disease". That's basically your point, I think.

Let me retort...

The planet is suffering from a population boom. Maybe this "disease" is natures way of stemming that!

I know what I said is pure BS, but only as much as your original post.

[Replying to whomever you were replying to; this caught my eye]

You need to refresh your definition of "scientific." I would argue that there's no such thing as "wrong" in the world of science, just fact. True, it does not tie in with the idea behind natural selection, but who cares. In today's world, natural selection (for humans, anyways) is completely moot. Take the warning labels off of everything and you'll surely see a decline in population. We live in a world in which you don't even have to have sex to have a child. Whether or not gays can procreate is almost irrelivant.

You ALSO need to update your definition of "disease." I'm not even going to get started on this one.

Maybe the question should be, why wouldn't you be ashamed if your child was gay? :|

Because not everyone (though this forum is making this hard to believe) is not a conceded homophobic bigot. I'd also like to point out that there's a fine line between "homophobic" and "######." And a lot of you guys are pushing it.

Oh, I should also note that I'm not campy. I don't talk with a lisp, I don't have a limp wrist. I don't own anything pink, I'm not a hair dresser or a fashion designer. I'm also not someone who makes bad decisions. I don't drink, smoke, or do any drugs. I'm an A-B student, and my friends are good people as well.

I just like guys.

I only got to about page 8 with these replies before it just got too redundant. I might finish the topic off later.

Edited January 11, 2006 by stadsport

[accesser]

I got that Movie tiz a good flick.

[cork1958]

Simply put, hell yes, I'd be ashamed!!

[accesser]

Simply put, hell yes, I'd be ashamed!!

Your welcome to think whatever you want ;) can I ask you if you have any gay friends and if you would have a problem if any of your friends broke the news. Is it really the family thing that would make you ashamed? :unsure:

[Brodel]

I don't have any children, but I imagine it's alot easier to say you would be ashamed when you are a 22 year old guy without any children. I would bet once people have a child they would find the question pretty easy to reply no to.

[Leddy]

Your welcome to think whatever you want ;) can I ask you if you have any gay friends and if you would have a problem if any of your friends broke the news. Is it really the family thing that would make you ashamed? :unsure:

I know for one thing that if it doesn't really affect me or my reputation, I don't really give a damn.

[Mieky242]

I would not be ashamed because I dont think its a choice that someone makes, you either feel attracted to a man or a woman, I highly doubt that someone has that choice..seriously. It is possible that someone can be confused or in denial about their sexuality and not "come out of the closet" until later on in life when they realise whats going on or what they really feel.

Most of the time, who you are is influenced by BOTH genes and environment (Genotype + Environment = Phenotype). However I think in this case that homosexuality is a genetic trait (possibly resulting from an abnormally high production of oestrogen or a lack of testosterone) and just becuase something is not hereditary (which this has not been proven to be or not) dosent mean that it is not genetic as mutations in genes occur in EVERY generation.

Bein ashamed at your childs homosexuality is one thing, thinking its their fault is another.

[Mr. Golden Deal]

I know for one thing that if it doesn't really affect me or my reputation, I don't really give a damn.

Good to know your reputation comes before your own children's happiness and wellbeing. How exactly are gays supposed to be unfit parents compared to this, again?

[tony-inpo]

Question: Ashamed if your Child was gay?

Answer: No, and why on Earth would you be?

[Epimetheus]

Good to know your reputation comes before your own children's happiness and wellbeing. How exactly are gays supposed to be unfit parents compared to this, again?

As I said earlier. Parent's Ego.

[Leddy]

Good to know your reputation comes before your own children's happiness and wellbeing. How exactly are gays supposed to be unfit parents compared to this, again?

As I said earlier. Parent's Ego.

I never put my statement in the context of the argument of 'homosexuality'. I just stated my general rule.

No where does it say that "I will put my reputation before my children."

Edit: Those two are replying to my statement of:

"I know for one thing that if it doesn't really affect me or my reputation, I don't really give a damn."

[Matt T]

Absolutely not. I'm not gay but some of my best friends are gay and they're fantastic people - there's nothing wrong with them, they're just normal people. I actually feel more comfortable around gay people because they tend to be more easy-going than others - I think a lot of straight guys think they have to demonstrate their masculinity by dragging about women and talking about woman as if they're objects, and I just hate that. My gay friends on the other hand are much more polite than my other friends, they're funnier and just generally nicer.

I know some straight people are disgusted by gay people - as a straight guy, I'm disgusted at people who are disgusted at gays. I think homophobia is something that needs to be completely stamped out of our society because it's appalling; nobody has the right to judge someone because of their sexual preference, and anyone who thinks they do deserve to be thrown in jail, in my opinion.

If I had a son or daughter who was gay, I would be concerned - about AIDS, they way other people would treat and accept them, and they way they would feel about themselves - but I would never be ashamed. And I think anyone who would be ashamed should be ashamed of themselves.

[Mieky242]

Absolutely not. I'm not gay but some of my best friends are gay and they're fantastic people - there's nothing wrong with them, they're just normal people. I actually feel more comfortable around gay people because they tend to be more easy-going than others - I think a lot of straight guys think they have to demonstrate their masculinity by dragging about women and talking about woman as if they're objects, and I just hate that. My gay friends on the other hand are much more polite than my other friends, they're funnier and just generally nicer.

I know some straight people are disgusted by gay people - as a straight guy, I'm disgusted at people who are disgusted at gays. I think homophobia is something that needs to be completely stamped out of our society because it's appalling; nobody has the right to judge someone because of their sexual preference, and anyone who thinks they do deserve to be thrown in jail, in my opinion.

If I had a son or daughter who was gay, I would be concerned - about AIDS, they way other people would treat and accept them, and they way they would feel about themselves - but I would never be ashamed. And I think anyone who would be ashamed should be ashamed of themselves.

Exactly

[leph555]

you were created to make babies, so the human generation can live on. Imagine if everyone was gay , now what would that be, the human race will die out!! Im sorry but i am against the gays and if my son was gay i would find him a women and turn him straght again~!~~~~~~!!!!! :yes:

[Unobscured Vision]

The fact is that they are a human being, whether gay or straight, and as such is deserving of enough respect to be left in peace. God forbid that anyone live in a way that makes themselves happy.

The amount of selfish ignorance that I've seen in some of these posts is disgusting. Religion says you'll go to "hell" (whatever that is). Hatred and fear says to be ashamed, to ridicule, and even injure someone who is different in any way from yourself. Archie Bunker syndrone, anyone??

To those who fit into the above: Keep your religious indignation. Keep your ignorance. NEITHER have a place in the modern world. You call yourselves "modern" ?! Whatever, losers. I grew up with people like you all around me. Majority rules, huh? Go with the crowd, and don't think for yourself ?? Bulls**t. You people are frightened puppets, locked away in your little four-sided boxes that you call "reality", afraid to draw attention to yourselves for fear of upsetting the status quo; or trying to be the "leader" because it fulfils your ego. Hope you're proud of yourselves, because your ways of thinking are whats' wrong with this world.

I knew I'd stopped posting on Neowin for a reason. Guess I was right after all.