unclehan Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Sorry, in my previous post I forgot to include a poll and wasn't getting much response. I really need this poll result as a survey I'm doing. How many of you think textbooks are too heavy? There are 2 options that publishers are thinking about in making textbooks easier to carry (lighter). 1) Give the textbook separate "partitions" that students can remove and reinsert with a zipper (at the spine). This way, students can take only the relevant section since a student never need a complete textbook at any time. (A class can spend weeks on a single chapter) Each partion is like a magazine and can be put into a student's folder and be used just like a regular book. Later, it can be reinserted easily once a whole book is needed. (for selling, borrowing, studying for finals..etc) For example, you can separate a 700 page book into 5 sections and each section is bound to the spine with a tiny inconspicuous zipper that can be used very easily (or none at all,and still be like a regular textbook). Students can just put a whole chapter into their folder and leave the rest of book home and still be able to participate in class, or do homework in school, or study with friends. 2) Make a electronic version e-book, sort of like PDAs that allow textbooks to be downloaded and be read on a screen. New technology allows the screen to be "paper like" so it's easy on the eye. Student can turn pages by pressing "next page" buttons. There is a advantage since students can put many textbooks into the device. Device cost $200 at first but digital textbooks may be 20% cheaper than regular textbooks since there is no printing and distribution. Advantages of option 1. (real book) : simplicity, robustness, easy of use, no need to worry about battery or data lose, more familiarity, tangible book in your hand Disadvantages of option 1. : real books will be more expensive than e books since you need manufacturing and distribution. Advantages of option 2 (e book): can put multiple textbook into the device, newer technology allow the screen to be easy on the eye (like paper) e-textbooks are cheaper. Disadvantages of option 2: not as "familiar" as a real book, need batteries, not tangible, can't "flip" pages, could be lost or stolen, digital data not as reliable as printed page, could be destroyed if dropped/bumped/wetted, e book reader device will cost $200 or $ 300, not as simple as a real book. Your opinion is appreciated. Please say which option you prefer. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
factoid Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 he he he SanDisk is working on a solution to this problem too... CruzerFreedom usb flash drive with CP (Copy protection). Publishers are currently working on wre-writing contracts to allow for their textbooks to be sold on it. Currently I have my math and english textbooks on it (its still a beta product). Essentially it works by partitioning the usb disk into a normal part, and a protected part. The protected part is accessed through a .exe on the drive, which also connects to an online store, where they have free stuff like the world factbook, sparknotes (you get one free), software (e.g. M$ student graphing calculator), and textbooks. Might be in stores in a few months. The same architechts are also working on lots of other stuff like that, even a USB based screen about the size and weight of a small/med paperback that uses digital ink (i think) to show the contents of the screen. (also on the drawing board are a camera, a video camera, an MP3 player, and a sort of "auto transcriber" that can be used on whiteboards to capture pen strokes and save them to a USB disk. [all of the afforementioned products are USB based, and are still in development]). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revvo Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I have a bunch of programming and linux related books and I don't think they're too heavy. Some of them are heavy yes but not heavy at a point where I wished to have an electronic version of it. I much prefer having actual paper in my hands and shuffling through the pages than reading on a small screen and scrolling the damn thing. Call me old fashioned but I don't dig e-books. :shiftyninja: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accesser Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Yes I used to hate the weight of your bag when you where a student but back then I had no money for a laptop. Edit Welcome to Neowin BTW (Y) I much prefer having actual paper in my hands and shuffling through the pages than reading on a small screen and scrolling the damn thing. Call me old fashioned but I don't dig e-books. :shiftyninja: Hmmm that?s really quite interesting makes me think if someone did a study on some kids who grew up with e-books and very little paper books, then introduce some books and see what they prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurë Veteran Posted January 11, 2006 Veteran Share Posted January 11, 2006 I think that something should be done to reduce the amount of stuff that students have to carry round all day. At my school we had lockers, but not enough for everyone and they weren't maintained very well. But.....I like books. :) I prefer being able to flick through and put bookmarkers in, add notes to the page if you need to. You can start reading it as soon as you open it...no need to wait for loading or start ups. Liquid will usually only destroy a handful of pages not all of them. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I do think your idea of electronically holding books is very good. My A-level psychology book would have been better electronic, it was huuugggeee. I didn't put it in my bag, but carried it separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnDude Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Back in my day... (Yikes 14 years ago!) :blink: I never really had any problem with the weight of textbooks in high school. I never had to have more than 2 books with me at a time; I just exchange books at my locker between class. We had around 500 students in our high school, but I guess that is too hard for some larger schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galley Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Back in my school days, (the stone age) books were very thin. :laugh: Seriously though, every student needs to carry electonic versions of textbooks, that will always be up-to-date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclehan Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 Back in my school days, (the stone age) books were very thin. :laugh: Seriously though, every student needs to carry electonic versions of textbooks, that will always be up-to-date. For high school students, there is very little need for books to be "up to date". It's only important if you are a graduate student where technology and new research are updated often. But for a middle or high school student who learns algebra, geometry, physics, english, etc... a book written 20 years ago is just as good as one today, content wise. The only thing that might need updating is history. But seriously, the school should be satisfied if the student can just master the first 200 years of US history. They can just get the "Monica Lewensky" or "Hurricane Katrina" thing from the news, or until the textbooks need replacing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmaster84 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Normal text books, cheaper for people that don't have the money to buy a $200-$300 device for a e-book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyout Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 e-book advantage you left out: LESS TREES DESTORYED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enrickey Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Normal text books, cheaper for people that don't have the money to buy a $200-$300 device for a e-book. My guess is that schools would pay for them. Regular text books cost $60+ a pop for highschools, in the end, this might end up saving them money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotrod1 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I would love the idea of ebooks, I am in high school now so I know how heavy and bulky they can be and if you have to take multiple ones home for homework forget it plus the amount of paper wasted is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2687 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Most devices will get destroyed and end up costing the school even more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxious Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 2) Make a electronic version e-book, sort of like PDAs that allow textbooks to be downloaded and be read on a screen. New technology allows the screen to be "paper like" so it's easy on the eye. Student can turn pages by pressing "next page" buttons. There is a advantage since students can put many textbooks into the device. Device cost $200 at first but digital textbooks may be 20% cheaper than regular textbooks since there is no printing and distribution. Disadvantages of option 2: not as "familiar" as a real book, need batteries, not tangible, can't "flip" pages, could be lost or stolen, digital data not as reliable as printed page, could be destroyed if dropped/bumped/wetted, e book reader device will cost $200 or $ 300, not as simple as a real book. Your opinion is appreciated. Please say which option you prefer. Thanks. Option 2 - I already do it (with PDF documents). Our textbooks come with an option to get the PDF version. Its great all round - I only have to haul my laptop (which I was doing anyway) so better weight, no chance of losing/forgetting them. You can do full text searches - great except for equations/formulas :p In class the professors can just pull up a page on a projector and have the text crisp (harder if you're using those page projector) Another bonus is the value added stuff they can bundle like excel spreadsheets and quicktime videos (These publishers are quite strict about what formats they use :p). I do sometimes miss flipping pages... and you don't get the "creative artwork" normal borrowed textbox have :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fels Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 For high school students, there is very little need for books to be "up to date". It's only important if you are a graduate student where technology and new research are updated often. But for a middle or high school student who learns algebra, geometry, physics, english, etc... a book written 20 years ago is just as good as one today, content wise. The only thing that might need updating is history. But seriously, the school should be satisfied if the student can just master the first 200 years of US history. They can just get the "Monica Lewensky" or "Hurricane Katrina" thing from the news, or until the textbooks need replacing. There is a need in high schools for updated textbooks. For example, in my advanced algebra book, it gives specific examples of jobs, and some of that information is outdated, it also has some problems with real-life stats, and those could be updated, and this it's second year of use. Not to mention high school doesn't just teach math, science, english, etc. My school, for example, offers Cisco Cert classes, A+ Cert classes, various MS-related classes, etc. For history, why should the school be merely satisfied for people learning the first 200 years of US history? Students can easily learn more, so why not? What's the whole point of learning history if you're not going to learn the full history? Sure, you could learn stuff off the news, but the news isn't exactly the best source for they way history is, or rather should, be taught. Personally, I'm in favor of textbook publishers just selling a simple PDF of their textbook. Pirating wouldn't be a huge issue, I mean come on, it's a textbook! Of the two options given, I really do like both. For the whole world, the first option gets my vote. For schools/districts/unis that can afford option two, it gets my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxious Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 edit: hooray for double post :s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quigley0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 um, do they not have lockers in high-school anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fels Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 um, do they not have lockers in high-school anymore? It's not always feasible for students to visit their locker that often, especially in a big school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclehan Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 Someone talked about saving trees. There are new paper technologies that are not tree based, such as hemp. It can virtually use waste farm plant that will be burned anyway and be made into good paper. Both option 1 and option 2 offers lightweight books. ******* It seems the disadvantages of option 1 is : slightly more expensive book, (but you don't pay the device cost), no updating (but again, it's really not that important for most high school subjects. the statistics might be outdated but they still serve the purpose of making you practice math, and that's what count in a math class) both of those disadvantages aren't very serious (to most people). the disadvantages of option 2 are: no tangible printed word. (many people are more confident with tangible real books in their hand) harder to use (waiting, having to turn it on, harder to "flip" pages, especially when you want to flip back and forth between various pages. I could see ebook might be great for novel reading, but textbook it gets pretty cumbersome) digital memory can get corrupted or lost. device can be dropped/bumped by students who are not careful or have slippery hands electronic devices tend to have a failure rate of 5%-10%, which needs to get fixed or replaced in the first 2 years. ( warranty statistics) Not a good thing when you have to study for finals. That means for a class or 20 students, 1 student will have their device fail on them. screen still might not look exactly like paper printed words need to worry about battery. It seems option 2 offers no significant advantage over option 1 but offers much greater complexity. Remember, we are talking about high school kids here using electronic devices that the school will have to provide. I doubt those kids will treat it with care. Probabily after 5 years many of the device would be either malfunctioned/dropped/lost/wet, or whatever. So I think most schools will still stay with paper books for the foreseable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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