Knife Laws - Too strict or too lax?

[Raum]

What are the knife laws like in your area and what are your feelings on them?

Here in Ohio, USA they are rather vague. "No deadly weapons to be concealed on a person at any times" is prettymuch what they say regarding knives. I consulted the local police office about this and they said that technically, any concealed blade could be considered a weapon, depending on the officer. He didn't mention anything about specific blade lengths etc, just concealment. I asked him if unconcealed knives were a problem and he replied, in most cases a visisble knife will present no legal problems here.

So apparently it's more legal for me to walk around with a Kabar or hunting bowie on my belt than to have some 2.5 inch folder in my pocket.

As far as knife laws go, it seems they're a little strict in many areas. I can see banning switchblades and other automatics, or assisted openers that can easily be converted. But I don't think it should make a big difference if I'm carrying a folder with a 3 inch or 4 inch blade. If I'm going to commit a crime with a knife, it's not very likely I'll use a folder with a 4 inch blade, which is illegal to carry in many states. It also seems silly to me to have concealment be such an issue. If you can see a hunting bowie on my belt, that doesn't mean I can't use it for nefarious purposes, no?

[John S. Veteran]

You can carry up to a 4" blade in your pocket here in Tennessee. I have several that I carry but only one that pushes over 4", I don't carry it often but that's due to it's size not the law.

Here in NE TN / SW VA, it's strange for most males not to have some sort of pocketknife and it's not uncommon at all to see people with hunting knives strapped on. Lots of hunters in this part of the country.

Quick US Reference for State Knife Laws

[n3wt]

I'm not sure what the laws are like around here, where I grew up most guys carried some sort of pocket knife on them.

[Smit]

I can't remember what the laws are in the UK but every stupid chav retard that is under 16 thinks they are oh so cool by carrying around knives and randomly jumping at people and pretending to threaten them. I agree with carrying one for protection but most people use them to intimidate.

[Dick Montage]

See my issue is this: If someone is going to carry a knife, the law/punishment is really unlikely to stop them. Punishment really isn't that great a deterrant.

The law does not stop people doing things, it only punishes them afterwards.

[Raum]

See my issue is this: If someone is going to carry a knife, the law/punishment is really unlikely to stop them. Punishment really isn't that great a deterrant.

The law does not stop people doing things, it only punishes them afterwards.

Mmmhmmm. It's against the law to mug people, but how much is the law going to help you if you get mugged? Not **** they can do about it until it's done with, unless you happen to be mugged by some idiot while in the police station or something. But hell, who knows with todays idiots....

[russ0943]

you can pretty much carry any reasonable size knife with you as long as you don't do anything stupid with it. It you really want to carry a larger one, go get a weapon permit or sumn along those lines. Simple as that.

[sean l]

You can carry up to a 4" blade in your pocket here in Tennessee. I have several that I carry but only one that pushes over 4", I don't carry it often but that's due to it's size not the law.

Here in NE TN / SW VA, it's strange for most males not to have some sort of pocketknife and it's not uncommon at all to see people with hunting knives strapped on. Lots of hunters in this part of the country.

Quick US Reference for State Knife Laws

Most states have laws against concealed weapons, not "knives" in general. So hunting knives are perfectally normal, especially in that part of the US.

The way I see this one is just like many of the laws in the US. People like most folks in TN carry a knife for daily tasks. Then there is a little kid who has a pocket knife at school and 'accidently' stabs a class mate.

Personally, I'll give up the freedom of carrying a knife so that some kid doesn't get stabbed on the playground, but hey, some people are selfish.

[Dick Montage]

Very true Raum! I actually have seen two people kick off in a police waiting room.

Well done guys, nice one!

[Tiger.Girl]

The laws are too strict simply because of Hollywood. Most decent knives of today can be deployed just as fast if not faster than autos. Autos should be legal everywhere.

[Laurë Veteran]

The laws are too strict simply because of Hollywood. Most decent knives of today can be deployed just as fast if not faster than autos. Autos should be legal everywhere.

Says the voice of ignorance.

Do you know about the Dunblane massacre? 12 injured children and 16 dead children. All done with four legally owned guns.

Dunblane

Obviously not everyone is a mass murderer waiting to happen, but if guns are in a plentiful supply it surely will increase the risks.

[jokeripa]

Obviously not everyone is a mass murderer waiting to happen, but if guns are in a plentiful supply it surely will increase the risks.

Yes, they are plentiful... There is 1 gun to every 11 people.

[Raum]

Persephone: I don't see how that gives weight to the arguement of automatic deploying knives being illegal.

Honestly, if someone is the type to bring a knife somewhere and kill some people with it for their own nefarious purpose, I think they'll do it with an auto or normal folder if they have to. ****, I'd take a fixed blade myself if I were to ever do something like that, which I don't plan to.

Point is, people with that disposition are going to go through with things either way I'd wager. Whether they have to beat you with a lead pipe, stab you, shoot you etc. Most "normal" people are only going to suffer due to knife laws.

For instance, myself. If I were to carry a switchblade, it'd simply make using my knife for daily tasks for convenient, nothing more. But say by chance one of these violent people came across me and attacked me, then wouldn't it be good to have that switchblade as opossed to a slow, two handed opening knife? So not only am I restricted inw hat I can legally carry, but now I am even more defenseless against people the laws are aimed at.

It seems real illogical to me. I know if I wanted to I can acquire a switchblade right now with fairly little hassle. If I wanted to murder someone with it, I could order it, receive it and go to town. The fact that they're illegal here (I think) would be meaningless to someone who plans to commit murder, wouldn't you think?

Oh well, either way I have no problems carrying a traditional folder. I'm petient. :p

[Scudworth]

I always carried my swiss-army knife with me, until I lost it in Spain :pinch: I have a a lock-blade with a blade that is 2 3/4" inch, but I dont carry it anywhere because the blade is wide, and has a clipped back, so it's pretty beasty looking just to be carrying in my pocket unless I plan on whittling a piece of wood or cutting kindling for a fire.

I am most certainly not against carrying a practical sized knife for everyday uses, but there comes a point where you have to say "do I really need to be carrying around a 4-inch folder just because I can, when a 2.5 inch folder can do everything I need to?"

I think the police tend to go easier on you if you tell the straight-up that you have a knife in your pocket when they are going to search you, instead of letting them find it. If you don't tell them you have it, it could be interpreted as having intended to use it, and therefore not wanting them to know you had it.

For instance, myself. If I were to carry a switchblade, it'd simply make using my knife for daily tasks for convenient, nothing more. But say by chance one of these violent people came across me and attacked me, then wouldn't it be good to have that switchblade as opossed to a slow, two handed opening knife? So not only am I restricted inw hat I can legally carry, but now I am even more defenseless against people the laws are aimed at.

The very reason you state, is the reason why they are illegal to carry. People only carry switch-blades for fighting. They are BUILT for fighting. You dont need an auto-opener to slice an apple. That goes double for double-edged knives.

If people would just quit being such [insert expletive here] punks, and fight with there [yes,explitive again] hands like men, we wouldn't have these problems.

Carrying a knife so you can fight with it is going to get you in more trouble than if you just picked up something off the ground and beat them with it.

Thinking that carrying a knife is going to be safer than not having one is a little naive, too. If you are going to fight someone with a knife, odds are you are going to get cut. It's not actually a matter of if, it's a matter of how bad.

Edited March 15, 2006 by Scudworth

[Raum]

I definately know better than to try and initiate a knife fight myself. I've lectured my friends who've bought knives an dbrass knuckles when they moved into worse areas. I'm just saying that someone who is going to kill someone with a knife isn't going to give a damn about how long his blade is and whether it's legal, therefore making the laws meaningless to him. It seems the only people actually affected by knife laws, theoreticaly, are law-abiding citizens. Where is the point in that, I wonder? If someone has no intent to kill someone with a knife, is it going to matter how long his blade is or how it opens? I'm not saying we all need a switchblade for EDC, it just seems illogical the way they're treated. I personally carry a tiny Ruko folder with a 2 inch blade for my EDC and it does me just fine. It's a lockback with a nail notch, making it take longer to try and open it one handed than opening it two handed.

[Andrew Lyle Global Moderator]

anything larger then a pocket knife.. should not be in your pocket period. it could easily be used as a weapon, and as for religion purposes, i don't feel safe at all. all it takes it once person to pull it out at school, and stab someone, before they make it illegal. so save us some time, and ban the things.

and YES, it is allowed and perfectly legal! to own a knife if your of a different relgion in our schools.. (ontario; public schools)

[Tiger.Girl]

The problem is when people think of a pocket knife they think of the old clumsy gentleman's folder with a nail notch for opening. I have a Benchmade 520SBK and I can reach across my desk, pick it up, and flip the blade out, all in less time it would take for me to open an auto (and its still legal). Knives have changed and evolved and the laws need to change with them. You cant compare a weapon (guns) to a tool (knives).

[Raum]

Agreed. Many laws are simply irrational reactions to criminal knife usage. With the way things are, I'm surprised one-hand opening knives are legal at all.

It's just sad that if you carry a knife and happen to whip it out and use it on something a knife is useful for, you get looks. People mention weapon and all. Makes you wonder. You've got your knife out, using it for a purpose, then putting it back in your pocket....seems pretty clear to me that the knife in said situation is being used for something other than elite tactical espionage windpipe slicing. I carry my Spyderco Delica for cutting thread, laces, cardboard and the like. I can't think of a single human being I've penetrated with it.

[Chosen One]

I dont think that there's a reason for anyone outside of military or rescue personal to carry a knife. a Civilian does not need to carry a knife. As for Canada apparently there's shieks or w/e they are they are now allowed to carry a knife into school because it's some religious thing.. personaly I would not feel safe with these people carrying around knives religious knife or not it should not be allowed in schools. I know im going to get flamed for this but honestly when you come to canada, leave ur crazy religion at the door..

[clide]

I carry a pocket knife and constantly use it...I don't see how you can say they are no use for a civilian, knives do things other than kill.

I don't really care about the knife laws unless they are restricting me from carrying a standard pocket knife, I voted they could be less strict just because I know you can get any kind of knife you want pretty easily whether illegal or not, and I could see how people would want illegal knives for reasons other than to do illegal things.

[Tiger.Girl]

I dont think that there's a reason for anyone outside of military or rescue personal to carry a knife. a Civilian does not need to carry a knife.

99% of the time civilians will be there before rescue personal, I have heard many stories where knives save lives and have seen so first hand. Personally I would be more afraid of a person with a baseball bat than one with a knife. Ban all baseball bats except for professional ball players? If you ban knives crime will stop? Most of these types of crimes are with kitchen knives. This type of mentality does nothing but punish law abiding citizens. The criminals will still carry blades.

[Raum]

Exactly. Going on what Tiger Girl said, just think about if someone in a bar attacks someone with a knife. You could either whip out a nice fixed blade you had looped on your belt, or your under 2.5 inch two-hand opening folder with no guard, or use your fists. I think I'd like the large fixed blade myself. Think about it. A criminal isn't going to give two ****s what the knife laws are, so if he is carrying around a 6 inch dagger and all the law abiding citizens are banned from carrying knives, who has the clear advantadge in a physical confrotation? Now change the scenario. The criminal has his dagger, but every other person in the bar is equipped with a 6 inch fixed blade, 4 inch folder and a handgun. Tell me, do you really think the criminal would be as likely to get aggressive in such a situation? I think not.

Aside from that whole illogical issue, there is still the simple fact that knives are useful. In the past week, let's see...I cut loose threads from various clothing articles, trimmed shoelaces, cut a shoelace off to make it easier to put the new one in, cut up a plastic bottle to use as a coin holder, split some cat5 cable and put on a new endpiece, cut open a package of almonds, cleaned dirt off my shoes, cut some plants, peeled some carrots, sliced some meat to eat, cut open various cardboard packages, opened mail, sliced through a variety of tapes and so on. As you can plainly see, a knife does have a multitude of uses outside of self-defense / aggressive action against another person.

This doesn't even cover multi-tools like SAKs (Swiss Army Knife) or Leatherman's. These serve even more uses.

Are you going to tell someone trying to skin his rabbit or deer to use his fingernails? Someone who wants to cut up some firewood to use his teeth? Ever try sparking a fire by banging your feet together since knives should only be used by militairy persons? Fisherman gets his line tangled...should he call a police officer to please assist him with the use of a blade instrument?

Or what about the fact that I can walk into a Kmart, Walmart, my local mall etc and purchase a hatchet, rifle, crowbar, hammer, saw etc? These are all the same things as knives...incredibly useful tools that can potentially be a weapon. You know what? So is a pencil. So is a car. So are you (Not trying to imply that you're a tool as much as I'm showing that we as humans have peaceful uses but can also be used as weapons).

[ServerMechanic]

You guys should visit www.bladeforums.com and see how nice and civil normal knife folks are.

I frequent that site and this site and I carry a knife daily for daily tasks.

Knife laws are too strict and they don't need to be.

Unless you're trained in martial arts and martial blade craft you should never use a knife for defense (unless it's the absolute last resort). I would rather fist fight a person or use guns than get in a knife fight.

It's never about who would win in a knife fight, it's about who is cut up less.

Knives are one of the most useful tools ever made and also one of the first tools that cave dwellers used to make when they could. People need knives and good folks should not be punished for what idiots decide to do with a knife. Besides, people can do more damage with a 7" kitchen knife anyway. What's next, outlawing kitchen knives?

Good thread.

[Chick]

I put my knife in my pocket when I get dressed in the morning and I cannot think of a day that I have not used it at least several times in the course of a day! The truth be told I actually carry two, one assisted opener with a pocket clip so I can easily find it and open it easily. The second knife is gentleman's folder with a total open length of under two inches with a ceramic blade (stays sharp for a very long time) and is ideal for opening boxes.

Why do I need an assisted opener with a pocket clip? Because I am 64 years old with arthritic hands! I can use a normal knife, but finding it in my pocket and trying to use a nail clip is not at all convenient and is even painful so unless I am going to be using my knife for a while and plan on leaving it open this knife is my first choice. When you are talking about a full automatic knife the only state they are legal for everyone is Oregon and as near as I can see this law has not exactly turned Oregon into a high crime state.

If I wanted to do someone bodily harm my first choice would be a gun and if I had to use a knife for this purpose a French cook's knife or a butcher's scimitar would be a lot more effective than any knife I could carry in my pocket.

I tend to be more supportive of reasonable gun laws and get upset when people try to put knives and guns in the same class. There are a whole lot more uses for a knife other than to do physical harm and yes I know about target shooting. Still when it is all said and done New York has some of the most stringent laws in the US, but I would feel a lot safer in Oregon with all those people carrying their legal automatic knifes than in New York!

Lastly collecting art knives is arguable more profitable than The Stock market! :D

[Raum]

Good posts. Bladeforums is one of the most informative websites I've visited in some time. They're the people that got me to try out spyderco, which I'm currently very happy with. I found out they don't take kindly to stoners though. <3

Guns don't really have any utility purpose. The only reason they're carried is to injure or kill. Either animal or person. No, I don't think guns should be outlawed, but it's pretty ridiculous that when I am old enough, I can legally carry a concealed handgun on me but according to my local police station, ANY knife on me that is concealed could be seen as a concealed deadly weapon in an Ohio officers eyes. If I even make a claim somewhat along the lines of "I carry this knife for self-defense" I will be punished immediatly. I can say the same thing about my concealed gun and they'll simply ask to see my permit. That seems real illogical to me.

I try to stay legal with them, but it doesn't look good. In the UK they're trying to ban knives completely it seems. Canada is pretty strict about them. In Washington DC any blade over 2.5 inches I believe is illegal. Seems a bit extreme to me, though you can still get decent utility from a blade that size. I stay away from serrations, assisted openers, blades over 4 inches in folders, double-edged blades etc just to avoid complications with officers and the like. Like an above poster said, I'd rather use my fists or a blunt object in a fight than one of my 3 inch folders. Using a knife in a fight just throws in so much more variables. Plus I've never gotten in a scuffle and had intent to seriously injure a person...rather just subdue them and let us each cool off.

Just talking to knife dealers in my area has given me more respect for the whole knife-carrying culture I've become a part of. They're courteous and respectful about their hobby, with much knowledge on the subject. They're very interesting to me...all the different tip designs, metals used, forging processes, different types of grinds, blade profiles, handle materials, locking mechanisms and so forth. They're on of the oldest and most important tools man has ever developed and it's a shame to me the way they're viewed today. So many things IMO have such a skewed and incorrect view in modern times...sex / nudity, marijuana, knives....I could go on.