Do most HDTV screens today have HDCP?

[Joel]

Your TV can be HD or HD ready without HDCP. One does not mean the other. The question was about HDMI and HDCP.

[SeaClearly]

An HDTV is simply any type of TV set with these specific features.

1. At least a native resolution of 1280x720p. The set can however be 1920x1080i or 1920x1080p. But you might see sets called EDTV sets and they may say they support HDTV but that is a tad bit misleading. These EDTV sets can accept both the 720p and 1080i signal formats but the TV set will not display those imagines in anything higher than the sets native resolution which is in most cases 720x480p or around that area for EDTV sets. Now if a TV set has an HDTV log on the box and TV itself you can rest assured that its an HDTV set because if the set itself cannot display full HDTV the box and TV itself would have the EDTV logo on it.

2. Beyond the above an HDTV set must have a connection that is capable of passing HDTV signals. All HDTV sets will have at least one component video input. Please note that component inputs don't support HDCP nor will they ever support it. Now HDTV sets in addition to the component input can also have extra inputs such as DVI and/or HDMI. DVI and HDMI can support HDCP and the main difference between DVI and HDMI is that HDMI can pass audio along with video over the one cable while DVI needs a seperate audio cable for audio. Also HDMI 1.3 unlike previous HDMI inputs and all DVI inputs can support full 1080p signals. Also keep in mind that some older HDTV sets in the early days had both DVI and HDMI inputs that "didn't" support HDCP but pretty much everything new with a DVI or HDMI input will support HDCP.

Now in the states the terms HD-Ready, HD-Compatible and HD Built-In have todo with whether the HDTV has a built-in HD tuner. An HD tuner is different than an HD input. So you could buy an HDTV set that has a built-in over the air HDTV tuner (aka ATSC tuner) which would be an HD Built-In set. You can also buy an HDTV set which doesn't have a built-in HD tuner and this simply means that to get and watch HDTV you need to get another decoder box which will in turn be your HDTV tuner. So an HD cable box, HD satellite box and a store bought OTA HD tuner are examples of HD tuners you could use to view HDTV signals on an HD-Ready and HD-Compatible set. So an HD Built-in set is simply a set that can receiver over the air HDTV signals without anything else but an antenna while an HD-Ready and HD-Compatible set needs a decoder box to view HDTV programming signals.

Now HDMI with HDCP support is only needed to view copy protected content and right now HD DVD and Blueray HD disks seem to be the only content that might require it. So if you buy an HD DVD player good chances are that full HDTV resolutions will be outputted over component cables but if a disk has copy protection your HD DVD player will only output 480p (ie progressive scan) while the full HDTV resolutions would only be output over either an HDMI or DVI connection that supports HDCP. This means that if you buy a disk and an HD DVD player but don't have an HDMI or DVI input with HDCP support you just spent tons of extra money for the same exact experience you would get with a basic DVD player.

[Joel]

An HDTV is simply any type of TV set with these specific features.

1. At least a native resolution of 1280x720p.

So plasmas aren't HDTV?

[Bhav]

Just for clarity - in Europe, an "HD Ready" TV is HDCP compatible/compliant.

[Coffeee]

So plasmas aren't HDTV?

Don't go near plasmas. They have extremely poor picture quality compaired to LCD... LCD is amazingly clear, with plasmas being blocky, ghosting and various other problems.

[bangbang023 Veteran]

So plasmas aren't HDTV?

Any HD plasma has a minimum resolution of what he stated.

Don't go near plasmas. They have extremely poor picture quality compaired to LCD... LCD is amazingly clear, with plasmas being blocky, ghosting and various other problems.

Wrong. Plasmas have no ghosting. LCD's are what have problems. Please don't read things on the internet and believe them. Both plasma and LCD are very viable technologies suited for different purposes. Plasma is actually better for simply watching TV since it has better blacks and a much faster response plus a much higer contrast ratio.

[SeaClearly]

I've noticed in the last year or so that all TV types have got quite good. LCD is much improved along with plasma and I think both are perfect for the average joe who lets be honest won't see the difference between the two as they are close enough now. This of course wasn't so a few years ago but things have changed. Also burn-in issues are one of the biggest changes and many plasma sets now shift the entire screen image just one itty bit over every so often so that the view doesn't even notice this at all but behind the scenes the static areas are being turned off and back on enough times to pretty much make burn-in a thing of the past. I also think if your looking for an HDTV set at any size over 25" you have no reason to not get a flat-panel HDTV set as the difference in price is very close today and will only get closer. Very few places have a decent 26" widescreen tube HDTV for much less than 500 bucks so when I could walk into my Circuit City store as I did a few months ago and buy a 26" Widescreen Polariod LCD HDTV for 630 bucks I had no choice at that point. This set by the way is a great set on video but the audio (aka speakers) aren't very good. But video is great on this set. Just a few quick specs on this.

First this is the newer Polaroid LCD set.

1366x768p native resolution.

1,000:1 contrast ratio which is more than good for this set.

8ms response time which is also very good.

Now for inputs.

2 Component Inputs with support for 480i/p, 720p and 1080i.

1 HDMI input with HDCP support.

A few regular inputs such as composite and S-Video.

1 VGA input for using it as a computer monitor.

1 NTSC tuner that is cable ready.

1 ATSC tuner with both an optical and coaxial audio output.

This last option (ATSC) option will allow you right out of the box to plug in an antenna and get your local HDTV stations. If you have a surround sound system with a Dolby Digital decoder with either an optical or coaxial input you can connect the TV to it and the end result is all your local stations HDTV shows with 5.1 surround sound without needing anything more than your existing surround sound system and an antenna. In most cases just an indoor amplified antenna will do just fine. But also keep in mind that this set has no signal meter with the ATSC tuner so you can't measure each stations signal strength until you exit the wizard and try tuning the channels. I've called Polaroid about this and have been told that they are going to release a firmware update to fix this issue but it will require bring the set into the store you bought it from to get the update onto it. But it will be free of charge even if your warrany runs out by the time the update is available.

[bangbang023 Veteran]

Specs mean nothing. I saw that set and was far from impressed with it.

[Coffeee]

Wrong. Plasmas have no ghosting. LCD's are what have problems. Please don't read things on the internet and believe them. Both plasma and LCD are very viable technologies suited for different purposes. Plasma is actually better for simply watching TV since it has better blacks and a much faster response plus a much higer contrast ratio.

Visit any Dixons or Currys (or whatever you have in the states) and look at a "HDTV" plasma and a HDTV LCD and you will see a huge difference in clarity and cleaness of picture quality.

[bangbang023 Veteran]

Visit any Dixons or Currys (or whatever you have in the states) and look at a "HDTV" plasma and a HDTV LCD and you will see a huge difference in clarity and cleaness of picture quality.

I work with Plasma and LCD's TV's. I know what I'm talking about.

[SnowRanger13]

I work with Plasma and LCD's TV's. I know what I'm talking about.

Yes you do you pretty much owned this topic :p. I came in to put my imput but seems you've handeld a lot of confustion.

[majortom1981]

the only real difs i see between lcd and plasma tvs is how long they last before you get problems.

I think lcd tvs last longer before something has to be replaced. Plasmas get burn in.

I would think most newer model hdtvs have hdcp.

I bought a toshibe 26 inch crt for $488 and it had 1 hdcp hdmi port on it.

[wicker_man]

I am with bangbang23 on this one. No offence to Coffeee and Majortom, but you guys are talking out of your butts, and because of people like you the staff I train tells me the same stupid things, because they "read it on the Internet". A decent plasma screen life is about 60000 hours, which translates into 20 years of watching TV 8 hours a day, now where is the screen life problem? Also, with the 9 generation plasmas nowadays the famout 'burn' effect has been practically eliminated, and might occur only on cheap units if you have the same picture on it 24/7 for a couple of months.

Coffee, I know what you are talking about. Although the thing you don't know is that stores like that almost never have true HD signal streamed to their TVs, as most of them use just a regular PC. Now, as far as I know there is no real HD graphics cards available on the market now (there has been even a fight with ATI and nVidia about that). When I did my promos, I used a REC-POT, which supports true 1080p HD signal, and that's when you see the real HD quality.

As for the picture on LCDs and plasmas, you, just like the rest of the people, looked at both from a 1 meter distance, which is NOT the distance you watch a big screen TV from. The seeminly better picture of LCD is caused by the difference of 2 technologies, of which you obviously have no idea. Take it with a grain of salt, and read on a little bit. Me and Bangbang23 deal with this **** directly and apparently know a bit more stuff about it, so there's no need to make hasty decisions like you do based on a low-quality HD feed in Dixons or wherever. Also, there's no need to google up some stuff all of a sudden and cite it here trying to prove your point (I said that just in case you would like to do that).

Bangbang23, I PMed you with some info.

[majortom1981]

Wicker man do you have a plasma tv at home. Have you had it for atleast 2 years?

Here is a good lcd vs plasma article.

http://plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatvrev...sma-vs-lcd.html

[Julius Caro]

What do you call a TV that has no HDMI but has 13xx*7xx resolution?

HD-compatible / HD-ready / Huge disappointment?

:s

HD-ready in Europe is a standard that means that the panel can display 720p or 1080i content, it has a digital input (DVI or HDMI) and the digital input (DVI or HDMI) is HDCP-capable.

Sooo there can be HD-ready TVs without HDMI but with DVI. High resolution TVs that are not HDready are just "hd compatible".

As for HDCP, I don't fully understand it yet. From what I've read, it is an encryption between a source (STB, DVD player, etc) and a display (a monitor, a flat panel.. displays in general). It's an encryption between devices. If you connect your HDCP dvd player digitally (dvi/hdmi) in a tv that doesnt support HDCP, you're screwed. I'm not sure about the opposite: connecting a non-hdcp enabled source via dvi/hdmi to an hdcp-enabled display. I think most HDCP-capable LCD COMPUTER MONITORS are able to display both encrypted and non-encrypted signals (due to the fact that there are not many video cards with a true hdcp digital output). I don't think the same happens with HDready TVs, but I'm yet to discover it, hehe.

Since HDCP is an encryption between two devices, I think it's wrong to say that hd-dvd's or blu-ray discs have "hdcp" themselves. To my understanding, if you have a hddvd/bd reader in your computer and and get around the other on-disc encryptions, you should be able to watch it without needing HDCP in both your video card and monitor.

If I'm wrong PLEASE let me know!

[majortom1981]

Hdcp displays can handle non hdcp sources.

However some cableboxes and some hdtv programming needs a hdcp tv.

every now and again my cablebox screws up and I get an hdcp error .

I am not sure how many shows require this though. Maybe in the future.

[Coffeee]

I am with bangbang23 on this one. No offence to Coffeee and Majortom, but you guys are talking out of your butts, and because of people like you the staff I train tells me the same stupid things, because they "read it on the Internet". A decent plasma screen life is about 60000 hours, which translates into 20 years of watching TV 8 hours a day, now where is the screen life problem? Also, with the 9 generation plasmas nowadays the famout 'burn' effect has been practically eliminated, and might occur only on cheap units if you have the same picture on it 24/7 for a couple of months.

Coffee, I know what you are talking about. Although the thing you don't know is that stores like that almost never have true HD signal streamed to their TVs, as most of them use just a regular PC. Now, as far as I know there is no real HD graphics cards available on the market now (there has been even a fight with ATI and nVidia about that). When I did my promos, I used a REC-POT, which supports true 1080p HD signal, and that's when you see the real HD quality.

As for the picture on LCDs and plasmas, you, just like the rest of the people, looked at both from a 1 meter distance, which is NOT the distance you watch a big screen TV from. The seeminly better picture of LCD is caused by the difference of 2 technologies, of which you obviously have no idea. Take it with a grain of salt, and read on a little bit. Me and Bangbang23 deal with this **** directly and apparently know a bit more stuff about it, so there's no need to make hasty decisions like you do based on a low-quality HD feed in Dixons or wherever. Also, there's no need to google up some stuff all of a sudden and cite it here trying to prove your point (I said that just in case you would like to do that).

Bangbang23, I PMed you with some info.

Offense taken ;) I havnt read it from the net, I have 1st hand experiance from it, with my father being a TV engineer, therefore I'm always around TVs. I stick to my guns with plasmas having a poor quality to them... why do you think we use LCDs for PC monitors and not plasmas?

[fishrman]

And Plasma screens, while not susceptible to ghosting, are susceptible to burn-in - though hopefully, if you read your manual, its more than likely that you'll never have to deal with, any, if at all, issues with a burned-in display.

[bangbang023 Veteran]

Offense taken ;) I havnt read it from the net, I have 1st hand experiance from it, with my father being a TV engineer, therefore I'm always around TVs. I stick to my guns with plasmas having a poor quality to them... why do you think we use LCDs for PC monitors and not plasmas?

Because there is no way to shrink plasma gas cells down far enough to get any acceptable resolution under a 37" screen. Pioneer is being heralded for figuring out how to finally cram 1080p into a 50" plasma. There is no way current tech can squeeze them down to a desktop monitor.

[Joel]

Any HD plasma has a minimum resolution of what he stated.

Um, no.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?sk...d=1134702498520

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?sk...d=1134703394716

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?sk...d=1112808029589

And the list goes on. People on another board I visit are having virtual fistfights because many smaller plasmas are 1024x768, which is not HDTV spec, and plasma owners don't accept that definition.

[bangbang023 Veteran]

Um, no.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?sk...d=1134702498520

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?sk...d=1134703394716

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?sk...d=1112808029589

And the list goes on. People on another board I visit are having virtual fistfights because many smaller plasmas are 1024x768, which is not HDTV spec, and plasma owners don't accept that definition.

My mistake. You have to realize, though, that that resolution is because of the inability to shrink the cells down (like I stated above) and the fact that plasma pixels are rectangular.

[Julius Caro]

Your TV can be HD or HD ready without HDCP. One does not mean the other. The question was about HDMI and HDCP.

AFAIK, here in Europe, no tv can have the "HD ready" stamp without having HDCP in either DVI or HDMI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_ready

On the EICTA website you can even find the HD logo license agreement and the "minimum requirements" of an HD-ready set. Companies have to pay in order to have the logo on their TVs.

It can be totally different in the US, though

It think this is a good idea. I mean, it kinda protect the consumers from all the confusion, since here in europe hd tv is still baby steps... You guys talk about your "Local hdtv stations", while I'm desperately looking for an hdtv satellite receiver to watch those HD promo channels. Sad, but true. And I don't think spain is getting (good) HD content until 2010.

The good thing about the HD ready logo here is that at least you are assured that it has HDCP. I checked myself in stores that in plasmas that have 1024x768 resolution, the hd logo is nowhere to be found, but there are some (big) plama tv's that have the HD logo.

Edited May 5, 2006 by Julius Caro

[bangbang023 Veteran]

the only real difs i see between lcd and plasma tvs is how long they last before you get problems.

I think lcd tvs last longer before something has to be replaced. Plasmas get burn in.

I would think most newer model hdtvs have hdcp.

I bought a toshibe 26 inch crt for $488 and it had 1 hdcp hdmi port on it.

You're right, but not exactly. The backlight on an LCD is usually slated to last as long as the phosphors on a plasma screen. However, the backlight system can be replaced in an LCD whereas a plasma is basically worthless.

If a TV has HDMI, it has to have HDCP. Most DVI sets have HDCP, though you do have to start worry about version numbers and such.

The Toshiba set is nice and you got it at a good price, too. Tubes are still great, for sure. I'm still thinking that my next set will be an HD tube.