Northern Alliance takes Kabul

[ab1225]

The Northern Alliance has taken Kabul (the capital) of Afganistan MSNBC

[configure Veteran]

hrm.. i wonder what will happen next.. :ermm:

[Quboid]

They should have waited until the UN had a replacement government ready - there's still plenty of Afgan left to take over. If the NA take full control they will be worse than the Taliban. The Taliban are oppresive, but they stopped the open crime and rape that happened before they took control. They could have been a bit less tight, but internally, they were better than the previous mod (basically the Northern Alliance). Of course, they royally screwed up their international affairs by allowing Bin Ladin in.

It needs a truely representitive government for national stibility. Without western aid, I think there will always be either an oppression problem or a crime problem as there isn't enough money to run a good police service - there simply isn't enough good ground to grow an ecomony.

IMHO of course.

[Glowstick]

Hmm... I just have the feeling that the NA will take over Afghanistan themselves...

[MulletRobZ]

Not if the UN can help it! ;)

[-FX-]

Forget the UN, since when did the UN have much success creating governments (ie. Rwanda *ouch*) Leave it up to the people, it's their land, their problem, they can fix it, they've done it before. Stop trying to create dependence, or people will never depend on themselves.

[Guest shardie]

too many questions???

the (USA) should just let the Taliban rule. They did more good to the country that any other gov. Why doesnt the US work with the Taliban. Afraid it will implement Islamic Law?

Do we REALLY know who & what the Taliban is or are we just swollowing what America is propagating. Why dont we see ANYthing from the Talibans side or what their intentions are.

If my country gets dictated by America, then I would also hate Ametica.

"You cannot walk into another mans home and run his home for him...especially if his family are happy. His way of living might seem barbaric to you....but remember your way of living will also seem barbaric to him."

Why dont we call the Zulus, Indoenesians (in the jungles), or other tribes we havent encounted yet...BARBARIC. They do worse things to thier people - iniciations etc..... dont see USA dropping bombs there (maybe no oil hey)?

Sick and tired of America poking its nose in everyones business. Its bound to get bitten & when its does then they are the enemy.

[SimonHi]

The northern alliance had no choice other than to move in as the taliban had already left and the power vacuum created had left the city in anarchy.

They moved in and restored some kind of control.

[Toxicfume Veteran]

I'd agree Taliban has done good things for afghanistan..but they have done many other things on the negative side too...they are also having just too many restrictions for women and stuff...would've worked f they put in lesser restrictions..

America work with the Taliban? that's never going to happen, because Bin Laden is (almost) directly related to one of the leaders of the Taliban...go figure :ponder:

[-FX-]

Hey don't try to hate on America. WE GIVE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO COUNTRIES most people don't even know exist, including the Taliban ruled Afghanistan. The Taliban was GIVEN A CHOICE REMEMBER, hand Bin Laden over, or we are going to come in and make it hell for you; well the Taliban said "Hey go ahead." AND STOP USING the over-used phrase of dropping bombs on a ?poor nation?, WELL TO BAD, if you are so poor, why do you not have the money to buy food and shelter instead of anti-aircraft batteries, guns, and ammunition. Give me a break, you cannot give the Taliban any credit what so ever for anything. I mean for God sakes, there were photos of the Taliban leader, forgot his name, pulling up to a hotel in Kaldehar in a limos, followed by three women. This Taliban is a group of worthless punks, who use scare tactics to control the many and ignorant of Afghanistan, they deserve to be destroyed, along with Bin Laden and his Al Q-whatever network, and if you got beef with that, tell it to the United States Army.

P.S. You F with the USA, you get F'd with.

[SimonHi]

I agree with that 100%

Noone messes with the US and gets away with it

and if they mess with the US, they mess with the UK as well

[Guest shardie]

you see thats EXACTLY what im talking about......USA arrogant as it gets.....like the Jews that think that they are the "chosen nation" to rule the world. Exactly ... USA does give $$ to nations, and with the same breathe say "dont bite the hand that feeds you..." read between the lines ignorant nation.

You f*** with the USA you get f***ed. he he he what a load of crock. Your Government knows what is the biggest threat to them - ISLAM.

Even one of your past pres. said that "the biggest threat to America is not Russia but ISLAM. so lets drive a steak through the small crack" prob while u were still tickling in your fathers pants.

Thats why USA will help one muslim against the other...... wake up America. The American dream has gone too long.

We ALL know that if there was a world war.....ALL the MUSLIMS in the world would stand together because thats their belief. You can push a muslim around and he wont say anything, but stand on his toes when it comes to his religion and all hell breaks loose.

You see for a muslim if he dies in war......both ways he wins.....dont u America learn....A muslim will die for the sake of God and in ANYONES books thats more worth than your own country. Your soldiers got notrhing to die for EXCEPT, the land of the free (free to WHATEVER U WANT............)

As for the ladies being covered...... How many rapes are there in Islamic countries compared to yours?

EDUCATE YOURSELVES MAN......What is the fundemental Jewish belief.?

Is Bush a Christian or Jew?

Christian? - which one

Jew? - how strong is his belief? and does he follow his religion??

Look deeper into the problem - whether u like it or not THIS IS a religious battle - cos thats where it stems from.

Im out

[crackhbob]

The current battle between the USA and Afghanistan is not a religious war... We'll leave that to the F*N idiots inside who want to control more land then the other. The USA along with the rest of the coalition wants to eliminate terrorism.

[SimonHi]

well i disagree wit the whole rape thing fro a start

on of the key atrocities of WWII outside germany was a mass raping of women in northern africa by MUSLIM SOLDIERS, so lets not kid ourselves that being muslim makes you squeaky clean.

The taliban ans al quieda (powered by OBL) kill, beat and torture (and almost certainly rape) their own people and now they have killed 5000 people from all over the world but mostly from the US and the UK in new york and what do you expect us to do........

NOTHING???

Do you think we can shrug this off and pretend it never happened??

u must be joking

we are out to remove osama bin laden and his henchmen

noone else

islam does not have a gun to the head of everyone's head in the west

that is osama bin laden and his twisted sons of bitches

and lets not kid ourselves

al quieda and the taliban are working for osama

so they must also be removed to protect billions of people around the world from this evil for generations to come

sure the US has made some errors in its foreign policy in the past, but being form the UK i can see that the US does go to a great deal of effort to try and do what is right to protect the innocent, the hungry and the oppressed.

I think that the US was right to offer assistance to the jews in the past... they have been opressed badly throughout history

although i am highy skeptical of the israeli foreign policy, and we will continue to work towards pease in israel

we ave nearly done in in northern ireand, we can surely do it in israel

that is most of what i think anyway

[murfster]

Originally posted by shardie

...snip... We ALL know that if there was a world war.....ALL the MUSLIMS in the world would stand together because thats their belief. You can push a muslim around and he wont say anything, but stand on his toes when it comes to his religion and all hell breaks loose. ...snip...

I cut all the other bantering out, but I left this important misconception in.

There are over 4000 Muslims serving the U.S. military with pride. The basic theme is: ...not fighting Islam, but fighting Terrorism.

I refer you to this article in the Chicago Tribune: Muslims in U.S. forces must weigh faith, duty

Further, even the most learned Islamic leaders denounce terrorism and the way it is being interpreted:

=======================

Masjidil Haram imam denounces terrorists

Urges Muslims to differentiate between terrorism and true jihad

From M. Hamzah Jamaludin in Mecca

hamzah@nstp.com.my

The imam of the Masjidil Haram in Mecca has urged Muslims to differentiate between terrorism and legitimate holy struggle or "jihad" which he said were governed by clear rules and ethics.

Sheikh Abdul Rahman Al-Sudais said terrorists were devoid of human and religious values as they violate teachings of all divine religions and international norms and charters.

"Islam prohibits injustice and causing harm to others, and calls to give justice even to the enemy to prevent violence," he said as quoted by a local daily, Arab News today.

He said Islamic teachings did not accept violence as a course of action, sabotage as an action and bloodshed as a way of reform and it rejected people who did not consider the grave dangers to the future of Islam and Muslims around the world.

"Those who carry out terrorist acts are sick-minded and criminal people. They don't have any mercy or humaneness," he said.

He also called upon world leaders not to resort to violence in response to the terror attacks against the United States on Sept 11.

Everybody, he said should exercise restraint and look at things very deeply and should give priority to public interests before taking any action.

"Problems and negative phenomenon in societies cannot be solved by resorting to violence," he said.

His remider echoes the statement made by the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia Sheikh Abdelaziz Al-Sheikh recently when he said that suicidal operations, including the "kamikazee" flights that crashed into the World Trade Centre buildings and the Pentagon, were strictly forbidden in Islam.

An Islamic scholar, Abdel-Mote'i Bayyoumi of Al Azhar's Islamic Research Academy has outlined that in order for a "Jihad " to be legal, it must meet several conditions including it should not provoke agression and it must be done only against those who had attacked the Muslims.

He also said that children, women and the elderly must be spared during such a struggle.

======================

It's amazing how brain washed some can be. The Taliban was an extreme terroristic Islamic bunch of thugs. Islamic scholars elsewhere say that the Taliban's laws are based more on tribal traditions than the Koran, Islam's holy book.

Poverty, murder, rape, human rights abuse, religious pursecution. Yep, sounds like a religious paradise to me. :disappoin

[SimonHi]

hear hear ;)

[chandru]

shardie..i agree with you......

these people here dont realise what is ACTUALLY going on in the other world. what do you guys know is happening in afghanistan? you dont even know the other side of the story.

who ****s with america gets ****ed? well guess what, who america ****s with, they will **** america back. and that is exactly what has happened. america got ****ed big time with the world trade center bombings......and they will be ****ed again. guess what, they will lose this war in the long run. they messed with the middle east peace process, what ****ing peace process thats just a bull**** excuse. they just take sides which please them, they dont want to fight terrorism, they want to fight ISLAM. if it isnt about islam, but about terrorism, then why the **** arent they doing something about the IRA, go bomb the **** out of them...they do the same thing..the "IRA" bombs all parts of the UK..so why not bomb the IRA? its coz the US are chickens!! why didnt they want to get too involved in chechnya..coz if they did, the russians would attack back.....and they were scared, their arse would get kicked! this is about ISLAM and the US and the bloody UK now as well. did u guys see what american soldiers were doin in the mid. east, in bosnia?? there are pictures of them raping women..and u guys say the taliban only rapes? what about in the US? the UK? germany? u blind mice or something? USA = freedom? why the hell do people go on rampages....why are there cases of children shooting each other so often?? freedom? looks like freedom to kill and hurt!! wake up people...and these pictures ofcourse wont appear in the western media.........why would it? it would spoil their image! the west is also controlling what the westerners see...isnt that obvious?? any of you guys know about the malaysian issue? when the deputy prime minister got sacked? why the **** do they care? its none of their business......that was an INTERNAL issue, which only involves malaysia.....the reason? because they knew that the only way they could get things done was if the deputy prime minister came into rule.......and that could not happen with the current prime minister.....who disses and hates US. the US talks about the best intelligence......the best army and war power....what the **** happened to their intelligence before the world trade centers went down? didnt they have any information that was goin to happen? they claim no aircrafts can go over the pentagon that low.....how did that happen? and if they have the balls, why dont they go into afghanistan and fight the taliban with the same weapons and machinery they have....then we'll see who gets ****ed! the only reason they were able to get the major cities, is coz they were bombing the place.....this is like a war of Tyransauros Rex against a cat or something!!

the US will get ****ed again.......soon! this war is about islam. and once all the islam countries get together, which they will do if nothing happens soon........you guys will see what will happen!

btw, im not part of the taliban or have any connections with them ;)

[-FX-]

Well excuse me shardie, but you live in South Africa, WHAT WOULD U KNOW ABOUT AMERICAN AGENDAS??? Islam is a paper tiger, they have no legitimacy to back their religion, I mean what ever happened to the original Koran, oh yeah I remember, THEY BURNED IT!!!!!!!!!!! (So people like infidels wouldn?t read the precious words of piece and harmony) But then luckily somebody remembered all of it and wrote it down again, wow thank Allah. COME ON. Ever heard of something called the cold war, its this little part in time during the history of the world, were two nations had the ability to fight, and yet destroy the whole world at the same time, I don't remember Islam being one of those two nations. And what the hell is with this rape thing, I mean sweet sassy molassy, rape is like car accidents, it happens, yeah sure there would be no car accidents if cars were banned, BUT WHY THE HELL WOULD U BAN CARS!!!! Same thing with your rape argument, its like you're saying America condones rape, and there for the only way to solve it is make people grow longer beards and have women cover their faces, OMFG@!!!@@!@!@!@!@!!@

And what the hell is with this whole Anti-Jewish complex, YOU PEOPLE ARE FROM THE SAME FATHER ABRAHAM!!!!!!!!!! Now guys remember what could happen if you have an adulterous affair and have another child out of wedlock, those sons (ie. Issac & Jacob) would end up creating entire nations that would fighting over a piece of land for the next 5,000 years (ie. Jews and Palestinians.) Every time I hear an Islamic person talk about Jews, its like watching the history of the third riche. I mean honestly, do you hate Jews that much? I mean really? Do you? Are they THAT BAD???????????????????????

And this war is not against Islam, to me that has "Wishful thinking" written ALL OVER it in BRIGHT NEON LIGHTS. Have you observed the history of the U.S.? 50,000 british troops rush New York harbor, we defend. Some of our own people want to enslave minorty peoples, we punish them and FREE the opressed. Hitler wants to kill all the Jews and destory russia, we said F that, then destroyed Germany. Japs wanted some action so we droped two attomic bombs cause were tired of playing ping pong across the pacific ocean. Russia knew if they fought the U.S. that would be the end of the civilized world. And now you want to THREATEN THE U.S. with this Anti-Climatic Islam Jihand BS. This is a fight agaisn TERROR, and if you have Islamic people in your religion doing it, GET THEM OUT, DISTANCE YOURSELF FROM THOSE PEOPLE.

So give me a break with this "last Muslim to the death" CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OK IT?S GETTING OLD. Let me just break it down into a simple thought, Americans don't fight on horses with swords, we don't tug on one another?s beard when we run out of ammunition to shoot at each other, and we don't face Mecca when we dual, we just use Nuclear weapons, the kind that would turn the middle east into a glass wonderland. So how bout them apples....

P.S. It's tough being #1, everybody hates your:(uts :(

[murfster]

-FX- Bravo! Well done! Oh, and chandru, since you decided to join this little fray, where do you live...OH, UK. OKey DOHkey. Nice weather? Warm? Comfy in your flat?

The IRA?? Did they attack the U.S.?? I must've missed that in the briefings. You don't think that the U.S. is assisting the British with intelligence on the IRA front (both ELINT and FIELD?). Show me the pictures of raping U.S. soldiers! SHOW ME! If you can't back up your words with EVIDENCE, don't introduce your propaganda.

What I can't stand is a liberal, tree hugging, weep for the running Taliban soldier, symathize with the cause bunch of little crybabies we have in the US and UK. Both countries have given millions of soldiers in sacrafice just so you can cry and protest. Enjoy your rights and freedoms.

If you don't think that I have a right to speak FOR the U.S., you are dead wrong. I love my country and will die to protect my freedom in my country. FREEDOM!!! You will never know the true taste of freedom until it is taken away from you.

This, coming from me, a former soldier who has seen the oppression, the rape, the pillage, the murder in your continent and of South West Asia. Me, who said, YESSIR, I will fight when asked for help by a small country. Me, who said, YESSIR, I will fight when asked by the UN ( I am not a fan of the UN ). Me, who is now willing to fight again, when my freedoms are threatened by anyone...including my own country.

When you guys grow up and see this as a very SMALL world, you too will look back and say: Did I do anything that made a difference for my family, neighbor and my God? I will not fear my answer, will you?

[chandru]

by the way..its JIHAD and not JIHAND. and fx.....so what if i live in the UK? im not a british, and im not a british citizen and never want to be....there was a small hint in my 1st post where im from...but i guess ur too thick. and how ignorant can you be..u think the us only has warm wather? big houses? u havent seen life then......go to some other places.....they also have big houses.....hot weather......beaces....and i live in a house here. so u got that wrong. and since its winter here, its bound to be cold, which i like as well :p and since im running out of time and need to go to the airport....ill finsih this of later........

btw...americans with super technology?? hahaha their unmanned aircraft goes down.......they bomb targets which they arent supposed to....oh oops that included a BBC station.......

[MulletRobZ]

Yikes! What's with these headlines?

-The US has come to Kabul to help the NA set up a new government!

-The Taliban have starrted to leave the country!

-Bin Laden could be outside Afghanistan right now!

-Canada has deployed their Air Force to a German air base and then continue the humanitarian aid!

-Bin Laden now owns the second most deadly biochemical in the world, which is 10 times more deadly than a boa constrictor's venom and has no antidote!

-American Airlines Flight 587 crashes into Queens, New York after three minutes in the air!

-Security has been breach in Atlanta International Airport!

-The FBI switches their investigation to finding out who started the antrax scandal!

What's next on the files on terrorism?

[MulletRobZ]

Oops! Forgot a headline!

-Osama Bin Laden's military executive has been killed!

[Guest shardie]

You trying to ster up a debate here?

[murfster]

So much for brotherly love:

Al-Qa'eda massacre Taliban

:disappoin

[Guest shardie]

Speech by Taliban's Leader to Clerics

By The Associated Press,

Here is a translation of the Pashtu-language speech by the leader of Afghanistan Islamic Taliban government, Mullah Mohammed Omar, that was read to the hundreds of clerics meeting in Kabul, Afghanistan, on Wednesday. It was obtained by the Afghan Islamic Press, a Pakistan-based Afghan news agency with close ties to the Taliban.

``Our system is the true example of an Islamic system. For the enemies of religion and our country, this system is like a thorn in their eyes, and they are trying to destroy it under various pretexts.

Holding Osama bin Laden responsible for the strikes in New York and Washington is an excuse. Afghanistan does not have resources, nor is Osama that powerful, nor does he have contacts with the outside world to carry out or plan such attacks. We also do not give him permission to use Afghan territory against any other country.

We have never tried to create problems with America. We have held talks in the present and the past with U.S. governments several times, and we are ready for more talks.

We have told America that we have severed all the communication links of Osama, and he cannot have contact with the outside world.

America considers him as a suspect (in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Osama has denied his involvement. It is unfortunate that America doesn't listen to us and levels all sorts of charges and threatens military action.

We have told America that if it has any evidence, give it to the Afghan Supreme Court, or let the clerics from any three Islamic countries decide his case, or he could be placed under the observation of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, (a body representing 52 Islamic nations). But these offers have all been rejected.

We appeal to the American government for tolerance and ask it to conduct an investigation and track down the real culprits. We want to assure the world that Osama cannot use Afghan soil against any country.

Despite all this, if America still wants to attack us, and to punish our innocent people, and to destroy the Islamic government of Afghanistan, we want to get the religious decision from you, our respected religious scholars. You should make a decision in light of Islamic Shariat (law).''