'Gas guzzlers' face parking hike

[whitebread]

Some motorists would face additional costs under the plan

The cost of residents' parking permits could be linked to car emissions under plans being considered in one of the country's most affluent areas.

A Lib Dem council in London wants owners of gas-guzzling vehicles to pay more to park outside their homes.

Richmond upon Thames residents with two high-emission cars could pay ?750 a year, compared with ?200 now, but the greenest cars would be exempt.

The council hopes other authorities will be encouraged to follow its lead.

Richmond's plan follows national and local schemes targeting emissions and congestion and comes after the Lib Dem conference approved proposals to use new taxes on gas-guzzling cars and airlines to pay for income tax cuts.

More at source

About friggin' time they started penalizing people for driving gas guzzlers.....

[Dick Montage]

Disgusting. My dad drives a 4x4 because he needed it when he was less mobile (couldn't sit downwards into a car because of operations etc).

He already was paying over the odds for petrol (or diesel), tax, etc. His car was no longer, nor wider than some large executive saloons (thus taking up no more parking space).

Why the hell should he pay more?

I detest how 4x4's are villified!

[samg]

thank god someone's taking a step to stop these stupid big cars.

Disgusting. My dad drives a 4x4 because he needed it when he was less mobile (couldn't sit downwards into a car because of operations etc).

He already was paying over the odds for petrol (or diesel), tax, etc. His car was no longer, nor wider than some large executive saloons (thus taking up no more parking space).

Why the hell should he pay more?

I detest how 4x4's are villified!

Maybe in your dads situation they can compromise.

people in 4x4's think there almighty god and safe in that thing. And can just bump me off the road because of it. I personally don't feel intimidated by them, i'd set them straight in my silly little mini, which will outdo them on any bit of road.

There not safe for other motorists or pedestrians, while some people need them (your father and farmers etc) a mum taking her kid to school, who can barely drive a corsa, let alone a 4x4, doesn't.

[TheNay]

Wow do they ever tax drivers left right and center there, its good tho to a degree.

Eventually it'll happen all over the place. The city I live in has talked about a congestion charge for downtown but people protest and get angry over it and it doesn't happen. One day it will tho. Oh well, i'm a transit / car pool person, won't hurt me much if it does.

[Brodel]

Yea, heard about this all over the radio today. I think it's unfair to be honest, even some regular family cars like the Renault Espace fall into their 'gas guzzling' criteria and I don't think people should practically be forced into buying certain types of cars like a Prius, which costs a lot of money in the first place and which many people probably can't afford. I can understand incentives for people with low emission cars, but I don't think people without them should have prices risen on them, especially with things like the congestion charge which I disagree with in the first place let alone charging SUV's more...it's getting ridiculous now. I don't live that far from Richmond either so wouldn't be surprised if it comes here soon.

a mum taking her kid to school, who can barely drive a corsa, let alone a 4x4, doesn't.

doesn't need it, but I don't see why people should be penalised just for having a choice. If someone wants to pay all the money for the latest 4x4 and all the extra road taxes, congestion charges, fuel costs etc then let them. I hate the whole anti 'chelsea tractor' brigade, they're so annoying.

[samg]

<snip>

doesn't need it, but I don't see why people should be penalised just for having a choice.

I think when these people buy the cars they get a free "bad attitude". Most 4x4 drivers dont follow high way code, will tailgate etc...

Its the little things too, my car isn't big, it isn't small. But when a 4x4 pulls up to my right on a roundabout, i cant see what's coming, fair enough i cant with trucks either, but most of the time a truck is a necessity, and the bigger truck drivers will be a hell of a better experienced driver than the person driving the 4x4 (LGV and HGV licence)

This is something i do feel very strongly about, if the owners were more curtious drivers, i might feel differently about it, but most of the 4x4's i come across contain bad drivers/uncurtious drivers.

[mastermate]

Here's a scenary for you.

I have a 'gas guzzler' 4x4 (driven in 2x4 mode, unless its snowing).

I get between 13 and 15 mpg.

However, I only drive around 6-7k miles per year.

Compare this with a Sales Rep driving a 2 litre getting 30 mpg.

But they drive 30-40k a year (or probably more).

Who is the gas guzzler now?

Who is doing more harm to the environment?

[Lexcyn]

Woot I think my Yaris would be considered a 'green' car. It's Energy Star compliant haha. I'm glad to be doing my part to lower emissions. I wish I could afford an electric car but hey. There's still time. :p

[John S. Veteran]

Here's a scenary for you.

I have a 'gas guzzler' 4x4 (driven in 2x4 mode, unless its snowing).

I get between 13 and 15 mpg.

However, I only drive around 6-7k miles per year.

Compare this with a Sales Rep driving a 2 litre getting 30 mpg.

But they drive 30-40k a year (or probably more).

Who is the gas guzzler now?

Who is doing more harm to the environment?

QFT

Same here, only I get 25 mpg in my F150.

[Doli]

Here's a scenary for you.

I have a 'gas guzzler' 4x4 (driven in 2x4 mode, unless its snowing).

I get between 13 and 15 mpg.

However, I only drive around 6-7k miles per year.

Compare this with a Sales Rep driving a 2 litre getting 30 mpg.

But they drive 30-40k a year (or probably more).

Who is the gas guzzler now?

Who is doing more harm to the environment?

I think the term gas-guzzler refers to the vehicle not the driving habits of the driver.

Low emission vehicles are good and I hope more and more of them will take over the road but its not fair to charge people more to park because they drive a gas-guzzler.

[mastermate]

Ok, maybe I should have 'Who drives the gas guzzler now?.

But I think my point still stands.

[Doli]

Well gas-guzzler mean a vehicle with low fuel efficiency, so by that you (and I) still drive a gas-guzzler. The sales rep just uses more fuel than you but is using it more efficiency with their 30 mpg car than a 15 mpg car.

[mastermate]

So, the Rep's car Guzzles more Gas!

So, is he also harming the environment more than me?

He is, after all, using almost 3 times the amount of fuel I use.

[Brodel]

I think when these people buy the cars they get a free "bad attitude". Most 4x4 drivers dont follow high way code, will tailgate etc...

Its the little things too, my car isn't big, it isn't small. But when a 4x4 pulls up to my right on a roundabout, i cant see what's coming, fair enough i cant with trucks either, but most of the time a truck is a necessity, and the bigger truck drivers will be a hell of a better experienced driver than the person driving the 4x4 (LGV and HGV licence)

This is something i do feel very strongly about, if the owners were more curtious drivers, i might feel differently about it, but most of the 4x4's i come across contain bad drivers/uncurtious drivers.

Personally I can't say I've had the same experience, but either way you just said that your view is probably quite heavily based on them being bad drivers.... charging more to park outside their house doesn't cure that and I don't see how you can think that is at all fair. Propose some kind of SUV training course or something if that was the issue....not just make people pay more. I'm getting quite sick of the governments idea that if they want something they just charge or fine you as much as possible until you are almost forced to do it. I like SUV's, I think if I did have one then yea I probably would feel good driving it, so what, there is nothing wrong with enjoying driving.

QFT

Same here, only I get 25 mpg in my F150.

nice, I didn't realise F150's did that many mpg.

[mircleman]

I have no problem with this at all. all these people driving these big gas guzzlers who dont need a 4x4 they dont go off road they drive to work and the store yet they want to pay $50 to fill it and continue to use resources when they have no reason too. oh look at me i live in the suburbs and drive my suv im rich and im keeping up with the jones. nonsense make them pay more they should. because when gas runs out or its $5 a gallon the big soccer moms driving the suv's will be the first to cry foul.

[strekship]

You have to pay to park outside of your home?

[Kreuger]

Most people can't seem to drive for the life of themselves these days anyway so just charging them more to hope they wont drive unneeded vehicles by choice isn't going to do much. I'd assume they were doing it for economic reasons though.

[Flae_qui]

not all SUV's are the issue. most SPORTS Cars suck down more gas then SUV's

[John S. Veteran]

nice, I didn't realise F150's did that many mpg.

The V-6 (4.2) does yeah, and still 200 hp :)

[Dick Montage]

illmonkey: Sorry mate, couldn't disagree more. My parents estate (and mine now I think of it) are full of Merc, Porsche, Bimmer and so on 4x4's. And they are all really courteous drivers from my experience. None of them are ever in a rush to get anywhere, they all car-pool when going to the train station to work (Bedford, so they drive to the station and then by train to London), they all car-pool when picking the kids up from school. Overall I reckon they possibly use LESS fuel than a fleet of mini's all going to the same destinations.

Never seen any evidence of bad attitudes. IMHO, the bad attitudes are usually of those in smaller cars who have chips on their shoulders, and blame all the road problems on these bigger cars.

And if they can afford these cars, who the hell is anyone to tell them they shouldn't buy them. This then becomes just another way of squeezing more money out of those who already pay the most tax!

[samg]

illmonkey: Sorry mate, couldn't disagree more. My parents estate (and mine now I think of it) are full of Merc, Porsche, Bimmer and so on 4x4's. And they are all really courteous drivers from my experience. None of them are ever in a rush to get anywhere, they all car-pool when going to the train station to work (Bedford, so they drive to the station and then by train to London), they all car-pool when picking the kids up from school. Overall I reckon they possibly use LESS fuel than a fleet of mini's all going to the same destinations.

Never seen any evidence of bad attitudes. IMHO, the bad attitudes are usually of those in smaller cars who have chips on their shoulders, and blame all the road problems on these bigger cars.

And if they can afford these cars, who the hell is anyone to tell them they shouldn't buy them. This then becomes just another way of squeezing more money out of those who already pay the most tax!

There are alot of fancie cars around where i live (that guys Fezza 355 wakes me up every weekend! damn him :p).

I agree some of those drivers can be pleasant etc., but around here the majority of them are rude. You'd have to take my word for it, and vice versa.

John S says his F150 gets 25, that's nothing compared to alot of cars. And that's an impressive figure for these 4x4's.

It's not so much the 'gas guzzlers' that get to me, its the size, damage and bad drivers that do.

On my way home last night, 4, yes FOUR, 4x4's went in the wrong lane, very fast (while i was in a queue at standstill) and then proceed to cut people up on the round about, and stop traffic to the right of them, and then pushed in front of cars that have been waiting patiently. That was 1 roundabout last night in the space of 5 minutes.

You could argue with me all you want, i have my views and you have yours. I respect that, and i know there is nothing i personally can do to sort out the roads the way i like them. So i choose to not driver every day and sit on a train. It's not because i get mad at them, its i just fear my life on the roads sometimes when you see such bad drivers!

[Dick Montage]

On my way home last night, 4, yes FOUR, 4x4's went in the wrong lane, very fast (while i was in a queue at standstill) and then proceed to cut people up on the round about, and stop traffic to the right of them, and then pushed in front of cars that have been waiting patiently. That was 1 roundabout last night in the space of 5 minutes.

I totally agree - that is foul behaviour. But I'd blame the people, not the cars. And I see similar behaviour from prats driving old sierra's and the like!

And yeah, I fear sometimes on the way to work. I drive down the A14 - a road used heavily by lorries. Lorries driven by drivers from Poland, Estonia, etc. They have no awareness of anything, and have 3 times nearly been crushed by lorries.

I guess it depends where you live, and what the people are like. And I will go as far as to say this:

Not all 4*4 drivers are asshats.

But a lot of asshats who get rich quickly buy 4*4's

Is that fair?

[samg]

<snip>

I guess it depends where you live, and what the people are like. And I will go as far as to say this:

Not all 4*4 drivers are asshats.

But a lot of asshats who get rich quickly buy 4*4's

Is that fair?

I suppose i can agree to that. :yes:

I also understand there will be asshats driving any old cars, but around here, its the 4x4's.

They are seen as a status symbol, that to be noticed you need one. Its the same as these people being famous for being famous thing. Or the need for people to find out what shops victoria beckham went into last weekend. I just dont get some people, but each to there own! (woops, went off on an other rant!)

[Dick Montage]

They are seen as a status symbol, that to be noticed you need one

100% hit the nail on the head.

If you are in an area where it would be considered a status symbol - it's possibly true that the driver is a twunt. Because where I live everyone has them, it's no longer a status symbol - it's the norm, so nobody is proving anything by having one!

[UKer]

I think this is a good thing, but there should be allowances for people who need them for work or for any other valid reason. I hate seeing people driving one kid to school every day in a huge 4X4 or going for a couple of bags of shopping - pollution that could be avoided.