drunk_monk Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 I don't see it happening, by the time HD DVD drives are at a low enough manufacturing cost to put in the 360 as standard the next Xbox will be due out for release. If games are put on HD DVD discs with todays maximum read speeds it will mean significantly longer load times for games. I see Microsoft moving towards digital distribution for the next Xbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo003 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Like many others above me already said it, it will never going to happen. Cause then MS will have hell of a price to pay, all the current 360 owner will be furious about not having already in there system. Also there's no real reason for DVD to go away now since not everyone have HD TV?s, maybe in next Xbox there will be but not this one there's too much of a risk to take for MS to add HD DVD pre installed just for the movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Live Veteran Posted December 7, 2006 Veteran Share Posted December 7, 2006 This is how I see it happening; if it does...The current Current 'Core' version will be dumped and replaced with the current 'Premium' version. A New Premium version will be released and would feature a built in HD-DVD drive. But, I do not see HD-DVD being used for games, they would alienate their current Xbox360 owners. Unless they gave them all external HD-DVD drives for free, or reduced in price greatly.. The Core system will never go away. The very reason for its existence is that 1-3 years down the line, it can be cost-reduced far beyond what the Premium system can be. I expect to eventually (maybe 2 years) see the Core system drop to $150 or even lower. Sony will never, ever be able to release a PS3 without a hard drive. And thus won't ever be able to release one as cheap as the 360 Core system will always be. Also, keep in mind that Microsoft has hinted at alternative storage solutions (besides just HDDs or bigger memory cards) like online storage - and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneKnee Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 The Core system will never go away. The very reason for its existence is that 1-3 years down the line, it can be cost-reduced far beyond what the Premium system can be. I expect to eventually (maybe 2 years) see the Core system drop to $150 or even lower. Sony will never, ever be able to release a PS3 without a hard drive. And thus won't ever be able to release one as cheap as the 360 Core system will always be. Also, keep in mind that Microsoft has hinted at alternative storage solutions (besides just HDDs or bigger memory cards) like online storage - and others. I'll give Kudos for Microsoft, they really know how to make a competition! :p It's a shame there isn't as much excitement with Vista than there is with the Xbox360! :p It's like Microsoft are playing with Sony! And it's fun watching :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshBluebird Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 The Core system will never go away. The very reason for its existence is that 1-3 years down the line, it can be cost-reduced far beyond what the Premium system can be. I expect to eventually (maybe 2 years) see the Core system drop to $150 or even lower. Sony will never, ever be able to release a PS3 without a hard drive. And thus won't ever be able to release one as cheap as the 360 Core system will always be. yep. Remember everyone - the wii will be a more fierce competitor for MS this time around. Despite what MS say about getting a wii and a 360, a lot of people can only afford one console, so if MS can keep a 360 SKU at around the same price as the wii (which in the UK it is - only ?20 between them), then it will help sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Veteran Posted December 7, 2006 Veteran Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) The way I see it, there are two issues here: 1. Games using HD-DVD (whether it's internal or external). 2. Internal versus external drives (whether it's movies or movies+games). First of all, Microsoft simply won't "fragment the user base" by putting games on HD-DVD. That would require current customers to either purchase a $200 accessory or an entirely new console. This flat out won't happen... As far as internal drives go, I see no issue for them putting an internal HD-DVD drive in the system; especially if they're making money on the system already. Doing so could accellerate HD-DVD adoption (I see the market slowly inching towards HD-DVD and away from Blu-ray for a number of reasons, but that's a different discussion) and Xbox gamers would certainly be all for an internal drive. I see very few complaints about putting an HD-DVD drive inside the 360, assuming the price does not increase. If the price of a new 360 with internal HD-DVD were to jump over the $300/$400 mark, then I anticipate customer excitement over an internal HD-DVD solution will drop sharply. Edited December 7, 2006 by John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TokyoKiller Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 The only way this could happen is if Microsoft decides to launch a system like the PSX which was more a multimedia device than gaming console and price is significantly higher than the Premium system. Of course that would mean the only reason why there is that system is to minimize the amount of equipment there is in the Home Entertainment Unit. Also they would have to avoid using the HD-DVD drive as game storage media, as that will make many of us early Xbox 360 adopters ****ed. That's the only possible and most ideal solution for Microsoft if they wanted to integrate the HD-DVD drive into the Xbox 360. This is the PSX btw if some don't know if its existence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSX_%28DVR%29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman273 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Reading this brought up a question for those with the HD-DVD. Can you watch regular DVDs from the external unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ji@nBing Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 There is no way in hell they are going to do this. Why would they alienate the 8 million plus people that have already bought a 360? There's no need to add it in. People who want it can get it as the add-on. They won't start making games for it. If they do that, 8 million plus 360 owners will have to fork out an extra $200 just to play the latest games. Needless to say, a lot of people wouldn't be too happy about that. It's fine as it is. It's no big deal taking one minute to switch out a disk to the next one every 40+ hours of gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obiwansotti Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Just a quick post on the technical issues. USB 2.0 = 480Mb/s HD-DVD x1 = 36.5Mb/s DVD x1 = 9Mb/s CD x1 = 1.5Mb/s SO... 2xHD-DVD 72Mb/s ~= 8xDVD 72Mb/s ~= 48xCD 72Mb/s < 480Mb/s USB 2.0 So the USB 2.0 is not a limiting factor and the xfer rate between DVD/CD/HD-DVD is minimal and if 4x HD-DVD readers come out in the next year or so, the HD-DVD format would provide an advantage, but then only for HD-DVD media All commercially available HD-DVD players read DVD and CD. Therefore there would be no downside to an inclusion of HD-DVD as an internal drive and if they ever chose to release a game on HD-DVD it could just as easily be played off the external drive without a perfomance hit. Just some factual technical points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashing Pumpkin Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 It's no big deal taking one minute to switch out a disk to the next one every 40+ hours of gameplay. Not a point about the HD-DVD, but about these games where you have to change the discs, how does that work. Does the console remained turned on whilst you change the discs, it doesn't damage them at all does it, well obviously not, but I mean, I thought you had to be extra careful with discs when the 360 was on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ji@nBing Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Not a point about the HD-DVD, but about these games where you have to change the discs, how does that work. Does the console remained turned on whilst you change the discs, it doesn't damage them at all does it, well obviously not, but I mean, I thought you had to be extra careful with discs when the 360 was on? It's never been a problem with any other console, so I don't see why it would be with the 360. Another thing to mention about switching disks is they do it at strategic times in the game. It's not like you're in the middle of some intense boss battle and then it suddenly shuts off and asks you to insert the next disk. It's no big deal, really, and I don't know why some people make such a big issue of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Derf Veteran Posted December 7, 2006 Author Veteran Share Posted December 7, 2006 First of all, Microsoft simply won't "fragment the user base" by putting games on HD-DVD. That would require current customers to either purchase a $200 accessory or an entirely new console. This flat out won't happen... Well, I'm not talking now (when the external accessory costs $200), I'm talking in a year when it costs $59. They will have one year to sell external players to get a foothold HD-DVD market in place. Only at that point (when a model with an internal HD-DVD was available) would they update the firmware to allow games to be played on the external HD-DVD. Then they would release the floodgates and allow developers to create HD-DVD titles. This as I said before, would depend on the popularity of HD-DVD and other factors. I don't think the current external HD-DVD is too slow for games. I don't think that USB2 will be a limiting factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nashy Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I think we'll see it in the next xbox (xbox 3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunknMunky Veteran Posted December 8, 2006 Veteran Share Posted December 8, 2006 Tho maybe if they did an Ultimate 360 package i.e Premium 360 + Larger HDD + Internal HD-DVD That would annoy early adopters too. People who want a larger HDD wouldn't have a choice to upgrade without buying a new 360. Unless of course they offer a larger HDD available separately. Including the HD-DVD drive in the console would really separate the market and cause Microsoft lots of grief imo. One game doesn't really justify moving to a new media, (of which is only 4 disks because of the amount of HD video in it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshuggah Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I thought you had to be extra careful with discs when the 360 was on? No, the problem was with people leaving discs on their consoles and then moving the console around (ie upstairs to downstairs, vice versa, and taking it to peoples houses). The discs would only scratch when you left them in the drives and took it around. Other than that, there haven't been issues with discs scratching. Of all 14 retail dvd 360 games I own, not a single one of them has scratches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGashX Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 No, the problem was with people leaving discs on their consoles and then moving the console around (ie upstairs to downstairs, vice versa, and taking it to peoples houses). The discs would only scratch when you left them in the drives and took it around. Other than that, there haven't been issues with discs scratching. Of all 14 retail dvd 360 games I own, not a single one of them has scratches. You forgot, some people MOVE the 360 while it's spinning, common fault of this is from Horizontal to Vertical position. :o. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Veteran Posted December 8, 2006 Veteran Share Posted December 8, 2006 Well, I'm not talking now (when the external accessory costs $200), I'm talking in a year when it costs $59. They will have one year to sell external players to get a foothold HD-DVD market in place. Only at that point (when a model with an internal HD-DVD was available) would they update the firmware to allow games to be played on the external HD-DVD. Then they would release the floodgates and allow developers to create HD-DVD titles. This as I said before, would depend on the popularity of HD-DVD and other factors. I don't think the current external HD-DVD is too slow for games. I don't think that USB2 will be a limiting factor. Even in a year with a cheaper HD-DVD addon, they still won't allow games on HD-DVD. There will be far more 360 owners in a year's time, and I think the majority of them will NOT have the HD-DVD addon. So instead of requiring 7 million people to buy an HD-DVD addon now, they'd just be requiring 12-15 million to buy one later. I really can't see Microsoft allowing games on HD-DVDs, at least not this generation. Assuming this did happen, technically I don't think a firmware update would be necessary. Don't 360 games still have the bootstrap on the disk like the original Xbox games? Either way, I really don't think it will matter :laugh: But I've said it enough times that I can't see Microsoft putting games on HD-DVDs. Oops, I did it again. [/britney] Also, like you Fred, I also doubt USB 2.0 will be a bottleneck for external HD-DVD drives. Even though it's not really 480 Mb/s (that's just a peak rating) it's still far faster than anything needed for a high-def movie - HD-DVD or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshuggah Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Heh, people are freaking stupid then :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danrarbc Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I think we'll see it in the next xbox (xbox 3) Heck HVD might be out by then :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNay Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 People will say it'll never happen, but I think it will in about 2 years, regardless if Blu-Ray sticks around. Blu-ray Vs HD-DVD is the eqv of - and + with DVD's in my view and both can be read on a dual format drive (which will exist in 2007). However, if MS allows games via HD-DVD that'll pee off a lot of gamers, and the ones who got the 360 at launch. Why should they have to pay again to play enhanced versions of games. If I was MS I wouldn't make an internal HD-DVD drive in 2-3 yrs, I'd just make a new Xbox for users (Xbox 3?) but that would be too soon seeing how 360 came out a year ago and a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxes Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I see it happening, as long as HD-DVD is only used for movies, having a third version of the 360 with one built in will cause no problems, if current 360 owners really want HD-DVD playback too they can buy the addon (adding/removing features from a console has been done before and works, Sony did it with the PS2) BUT if MS decided to make games on HD-DVD, which could happen as in the future they may loose some games to the PS3 due to haven't not enough space (on disks), I know you can span disks but how many will actually put up with it? and how many will just get a PS3 so they don't need to disk swap? I reckon the numbers will skew to the latter and then that will cause problems for both developers and consumers...so I see a HD-DVD equipped 360 in the future (possibly with a built in HDMI port) but HD-DVD games could happen but probably wouldn't due to the possible massive backlash caused by doing it. Well those are my thoughts take with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Live Veteran Posted December 8, 2006 Veteran Share Posted December 8, 2006 Microsoft won't allow games over 50MB on Live Arcade because they'd be inaccessible to Core system owners without an HDD. Do you really think they're ever going to allow HD-DVD games and alienate a much larger group of users? What could be possible would be enabling games to come on an HD-DVD so long as they're also offered in multi-disc DVD formats. But I don't really think anyone cares enough about changing a disc once or twice in those extremely exceptional circumstances that a game goes over one DVD-9 disc. So it wouldn't really be worth the effort. I could certainly imagine a higher-priced Xbox 360 model with a built-in HD-DVD drive at some point - or a couple years from now perhaps it would become standard if the drives get cheap enough. But it will never be used for games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheppard Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 The only possible way around it if they do eventually move games to hd-dvd is make a games bundle with a free hd-dvd drive, but i dont think theyed do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKuro Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Internal HDDVD won't happen on this generation of xbox (as you can't release games on it that alienate the current x360 users) Also many gamers don't care about HDDVD movie playback . . if they did, they would get the external What I do see happening for the next revision is: - Drop the Core Version - Put the current premium version in that price point - Release a New Ultimate version with Larger HDD, maybe intergrated wireless and put that in the old premium price point. oh, and they will now have HDMI outputs built in :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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