jamend Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Unless you actually develop websites, you don't realise how frustrating working with IE is. I develop it all in FireFox, do everything by the standards, and you know, it looks awesome and perfect, as it should. And then you load up IE 6 and yuck, its doing things its not supposed to be doing.So that leaves you with a few choices, - try and find a hack to make it work in both browsers.. which isn't always worth it - try a completely different approach to what your doing - block IE I don't see blocking IE as all that bad a alternative when you've been working on something for so long only to find it is unuseable in IE. no, honestly hitman, IE is a pain in the arse. Ive written websites in Firefox that looked super but when I got to IE it was a MESS. There are too many bugs with IE6's CSS rendering. Granted, IE7 is a bit better but still has a whole lot of bugs in it. I dont blame that site one bit for what theyre doing. If it forces MS to render CSS correctly, then by all means, more sites should do it. I make web sites too, except I do it with Visual Studio, so obviously they'll work fine in IE but it'll be a pain in the ass to make them work in Firefox. You think it's right to block IE users in an attempt to force people to switch? Microsoft doesn't adhere to standards because they want to force people to stick with their stuff. But since Microsoft is doing it, it's evil, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primexx Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 (edited) IE7 is a bit better, at least PNGs work, and you can hack it to render XHTML being sent with the correct content type. IE6 though...you could get just about anything to work with that browser, but in some cases, it required an entirely separate stylesheet and image set just for itself - some people aren't willing to go that far.I don't know, maybe people are too idiotic to realize it, but the webdesigner's choice not to support certain browsers (be it IE, Firefox, Opera, or Safari) has little to no impact on the actual content quality of the site in most cases. Seriously, get ****ed off at something else like taxes. Sheesh. :rolleyes: What how? I make web sites too, except I do it with Visual Studio, so obviously they'll work fine in IE but it'll be a pain in the ass to make them work in Firefox. You think it's right to block IE users in an attempt to force people to switch? Microsoft doesn't adhere to standards because they want to force people to stick with their stuff. But since Microsoft is doing it, it's evil, right? It's wrong because it doesnt respect the standards, has nothing to do with who the company is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halcyoncmdr Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 It's evil because they claim to support standards compliance, yet their software supports the smalles amount of standards compared to the major browsers. That is what I consider evil and hipocritical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primexx Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 It's evil because they claim to support standards compliance, yet their software supports the smalles amount of standards compared to the major browsers. That is what I consider evil and hipocritical On the other hand they claim only to be compatible with Mozilla/4.0 which they are infact almost fully compatible with in version 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimy Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 It's evil because they claim to support standards compliance, Microsoft claimed that IE was standard compliant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Dick Montage Subscriber² Posted January 2, 2007 Subscriber² Share Posted January 2, 2007 I have been a web developer for over 10 years now. Back when the arguement was IE or Netscape, with Navigator being the dominant browser. I've been through all the tricks - different pages dependant upon browsers, different javascripts, different stylesheets, functionality dependant upon browser, hacks, workarounds, the lot. And you know what? It's all just BS. The information contained is what people care about, and the presentation should let people at the information. You build a site to give the information, not to have a lovely site with bells and whistles that the majority of web users cannot see. So IE is lacking in some respects? Agreed - but you can still work within the standards and make cross-browser compatible sites. And if you need to use a few CSS hacks, etc - then go for it, cos they will make your site work on IE, and it should work well on FF anyhow. And don't forget Opera, text-based browsers, Macs, etc. OK, so you want a bit of functionality that ie FF only? Great, go for it - but make a fallback option for those who don't CHOOSE to use that LESS POPULAR browser. If someone fails to follow some simple common-sense rules, then makes a site that is browser dependant without any form of fallback nor explanation - they don't have the skills yet to be a web designer. And certainly don't have the computing knowledge to recommend that people change their browser. Should some self-righteous idiot be the person to inform Joe Public who has just got their nice new Dell laptop "Hey, before you can use my site, you need to download this app, install it, understand why you have done this and then come back again"? I think not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halcyoncmdr Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Microsoft claimed that IE was standard compliant? They claimed that they would begin to increase their standards support in 2005... it hasn't led to much. The WaSP / Microsoft Task Force was formed in July of 2005 to support Microsoft as the company begins increasing Web standards support in its products including the Microsoft Internet Explorer Web browser, developer tools including Visual Studio and ASP.NET, and designer tools such as Microsoft Expression Web Designer.The Task Force is a highly cooperative collaboration between seemingly disparate ideologies. However, this unusual and sometimes controversial relationship has already born fruit as is evidenced by improvements to and advancement of Microsoft software as well as outreach and diplomacy initiatives between Microsoft and the Web standards community at large. SOURCE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 That is not true. There are alternative plugins that work in Opera/FF/etc. that allow you to use the regular microsoft update site, and any other site that uses Activex. so that means update.microsoft.com isn't tied to IE only then :p Unless you actually develop websites, you don't realise how frustrating working with IE is. I develop it all in FireFox, do everything by the standards, and you know, it looks awesome and perfect, as it should. And then you load up IE 6 and yuck, its doing things its not supposed to be doing.So that leaves you with a few choices, - try and find a hack to make it work in both browsers.. which isn't always worth it - try a completely different approach to what your doing - block IE I don't see blocking IE as all that bad a alternative when you've been working on something for so long only to find it is unuseable in IE. that is bad design, if you are designing anything that will take a lot of time, you do not make thing whole thing then test it, you test as you go along. any site i've made has worked in all 3 major browsers (ie/ff/opera). If you ignore IE you are ignoring the majority of users which again is very bad design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halcyoncmdr Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 (edited) so that means update.microsoft.com isn't tied to IE only then :p Exactly, and that's what most people don't know. They think that Microsoft is using a proprietary technology, when actually ScriptX is the same as ActiveX, and there are plugins for ScriptX available for other browsers. Heck, to get the Neptune plugin working in Opera, all you have to do is change the file extension that it autmatically sets in the preferences from "ax-neptune" to "ax". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 Well we shouldnt go offtopic - How do I enter the site with IE7? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brody McKee Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Sadly some fanboys are insane. Imagine what backlash I'd get if I made a Windows only site (because I don't like Mac)! Anyway, on a similar track - uTorrent has a web-interface that they say they aren't supporting for IE6 (no mention of 7). That also ****s me. http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=14565 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pc_Madness Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 (edited) I don't give a ****; Present a warning that says "IE doesnt render this page properly and using FF would make it look better. To continue click here" and thats it. But dont ban me from the site for using a browser such as IE (and the page seems to take in count of IE6 not IE7) I don't think you understand. What if the site is completely unusable? Because things have layered themselves over the top of menus, or navigation no-longer works or divs with content on it aren't shown at all. If your a business, and trying to impress your customers with your snazy website, showing them something like that isn't always the best idea. :\ (and yes, I know there are flaws in that sentence..) This isn't a proper example, (and it doesn't work properly in FireFox 2 either, as it includes some new CSS stuff), but it kinda shows how IE compares to the rest in some ways. If someone has a real world example, post it, I couldn't see any aside from sites demonstrating individual bugs. http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html (if you don't have FireFox installed, pretty much the mouth and eyes are out of place) that is bad design, if you are designing anything that will take a lot of time, you do not make thing whole thing then test it, you test as you go along. True, but usually I forget, since I'm so used to testing it in FireFox, since it always looks as I expect it... and then I eventually click and remember to check out what funky things IE is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Decryptor Veteran Posted January 2, 2007 Veteran Share Posted January 2, 2007 It's just the result of lots of sites being IE only, people got annoyed by it, and decided to see how IE users liked it (the practice anoys me though, so i don't agree with it on any site, no-matter how badly written your code is) I'm fine with allowing users in, but saying their browser isn't as good, this is what i did on my site (had a imitation "info-bar"), but i still got complaints (mainly because IE rendered my entire site as a gray, blank page, even though i sent all the content down on each page) Edit: if you're making a site, test it in Firefox and Opera (and Konqueror and Safari if you have the means), that will ensure the site works in valid browsers (don't forget to validate and follow good practices), then hack your site for IE, if you try doing it the other way around your just going to give yourself more work and cause more headaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Dick Montage Subscriber² Posted January 2, 2007 Subscriber² Share Posted January 2, 2007 (edited) I don't think you understand. What if the site is completely unusable? Because things have layered themselves over the top of menus, or navigation no-longer works or divs with content on it aren't shown at all. If your a business, and trying to impress your customers with your snazy website, showing them something like that isn't always the best idea. :\ (and yes, I know there are flaws in that sentence..) Any business that provides content for only 1 browser will be going away very shortly. Especially if that 1 browser is FF. Customers deserve at least an explanation. You would be turning down business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
em_te Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 If a website wants to prefer its use to only one browser and simply doesn't like competition, the site is not worth it to view. If they coded it for one browser, that's a shame seeing how IE has the biggest use on the web. LOL! I've seen websites that do the opposite and block IE browsers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelmus Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Disable javascript in IE, then the redirection script does not work... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp10558 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I'm sorry, I can't say I have much sympathy on this one - it's like Welcome to our world lol. I put up with this all the time using Opera - and I can understand why some website authors are tired of getting it and feel like slapping IE in the face. I don't agree, it's not really the end users fault (though I still think using IE is just asking for problems). But maybe it can help wake everyone up to how stupid IE/FF/whatever only sites are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 (edited) I don't think you understand. What if the site is completely unusable? Because things have layered themselves over the top of menus, or navigation no-longer works or divs with content on it aren't shown at all. If your a business, and trying to impress your customers with your snazy website, showing them something like that isn't always the best idea. :\ (and yes, I know there are flaws in that sentence..)This isn't a proper example, (and it doesn't work properly in FireFox 2 either, as it includes some new CSS stuff), but it kinda shows how IE compares to the rest in some ways. If someone has a real world example, post it, I couldn't see any aside from sites demonstrating individual bugs. http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html (if you don't have FireFox installed, pretty much the mouth and eyes are out of place) True, but usually I forget, since I'm so used to testing it in FireFox, since it always looks as I expect it... and then I eventually click and remember to check out what funky things IE is doing. Again; I DON'T GIVE A ****; It should NOT ban me from entering the site and should give me a warning about some elements that may not display correctly. And I consider web standards stupid and pointless. Right now, IE is the most used browser. Everyone should write for that browser, make the code as web standard as possible then recheck that it works in IE and repeat untill its perfect. Like said most customers/companies/users/moms use Internet Explorer. Disable javascript in IE, then the redirection script does not work... Can't find the option; Where is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robgig1088 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 well if it puts pressure on Windows to create a web browser that is at least on par with the standard, then by all means. There are sites that block anything that is NOT ie also, but i dont see you complaining about that. Correct rendering is necessary for an advancement in web technology and I find it pathetic that the largest web browser cant seem to follow the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallithrax Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 (edited) After saving the page and viewing it off line, there is no difference between Firefox and IE. MAybe there is something on other pages, but not this one. Or you can just go to www.proft42.com and click the link. It works. Edited January 2, 2007 by metallithrax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linx05 Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 (edited) Remove divs/spans with text: <div id="hasie_level3" Remove scripts with text: hasie_movead( Add CSS to all pages: div#hasIE_level1, div#hasIE_level2, div#hasIE_level3 {display:none !important;} Add CSS to all pages: #iePropaganda {display:none !important;} If you use Ad Muncher, put those in and all will be sweet. They are the few I've found. It works at every anti-IE site I've been to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelmus Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Can't find the option; Where is it? You'll need to modify the Internet Zone's security settings. Select Custom level and disable "Active Scripting", "Allow paste options via script" and "Scripting of Java applets". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echilon Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 If you just got a decent browser you wouldn't have any problems :shifty: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrk Reviews Posted January 12, 2007 Reviews Share Posted January 12, 2007 Im ****ed and disgusted at stupid sites that come up with a frontpage that says "You are using a old browser. Update to Firefox!". It ****ed me off because it should allow any user to enter the site with whatever browser they want.Anyway to bypass this and enter the site with IE7? Edit: Damn typos and spelling typos.. Your typos would not be a problem in Firefox 2 :) :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halcyoncmdr Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) I don't give a ****; Present a warning that says "IE doesnt render this page properly and using FF would make it look better. To continue click here" and thats it. But dont ban me from the site for using a browser such as IE (and the page seems to take in count of IE6 not IE7) You do realize that the error page shows a screenshot from IE and FF, and obviously the IE page is not going to be navigable at all right? And I love how it allows Opera, even though it says to get FF specifically :D Your typos would not be a problem in Firefox 2 And you wouldn't have that problem either with Opera & Aspell Dictionary :D I can do it too :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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