Brandon Live Veteran Posted January 29, 2007 Veteran Share Posted January 29, 2007 I say disable Windows Firewall, UAC etc...get hardware firewall router and install AVG or Avast and i guarantee you won't ever get a virus or anything. You're really starting to bother me. Have you even read the thread? No anti-virus program will do what UAC does for you. Read my post above. If there were another exploit like the WMF vulnerability, or a buffer overrun exploit in any web browser, e-mail client, etc - UAC would protect you, AVG or Avast will not. And there's absolutely no reason to disable Windows Firewall even if you are behind a router. What if another PC on your network gets infected with something? Why take down an extra level of security that's so easy to get along with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskren Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 (edited) I guess that's what happens when you're living in the computing stone age. You start turning off useful, productive features in order to save RAM. Pure idiocy if you ask me. Viruses and malware tend to bog down a computer more than UAC ever will. Edited January 29, 2007 by raskren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyphrax Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I think UAC is a good idea, but I think the implementation could be a lot better (judging it on a functional level). One of the biggest security threats to the system is the user itself. A novice user is browsing the web, and might actually think he won that $10,000 trip, clicks on that link, downloads that malware, and infects his system. A cryptical dialog like "File Operation", which offers very little information, isn't going to make a difference in that. It will confuse that novice user, and soon they'll Allow just about anything, because clicking Allow will be associated with "making it work". When I remove a file from my Desktop I get a UAC prompt, which is kinda pointless. There is no script action or 3rd party software involved, just me giving a delete command. When I remove some items from my start menu, I even get two UAC prompts. I foresee a lot of power-users turning it off, because it annoys them. Most novice users probably won't understand the prompts and Allow them: "the boy who cried wolf" effect. I might give it a try again when Microsoft tunes it a bit and all software is compatible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzon Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 (edited) When I remove a file from my Desktop I get a UAC prompt, which is kinda pointless. There is no script action or 3rd party software involved, just me giving a delete command. UAC prompt doesn't occur for your files (i.e. if you create a shortcut or a file on your desktop and then you delete it). If you got a UAC prompt is because you have installed a program which has created a desktop shortcut for ALL USERS and not only for your account. In Windows XP if you were a limited user you couldn't delete this shortcut created for ALL USERS (access denied error) and so you had a bad Windows experience. Edited February 2, 2007 by franzon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockwiz Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Unfortunately, I had to disable it. I have MANY MANY files (200GB+) that were used by my old XP installation, and UAC refuses to allow write access to any of them unless I run apps as administrator. I have tried taking ownership, checking the access boxes, etc and still no dice. I would LOVE to be able to use UAC... but until this issue is resolved I can't. One fun thing to do when you've got time is learn how the whole "permissions" thing works in vista. I've got it set up so that my gaming drive has full read/write/modify access and that my data drive has write access but modify access only with UAC prompts on.. I'm tempted to disable modify access completely as it's easy to turn it back on. The first thing you need to do is take ownership of the files or folders by right clicking on them, security tab, advanced, click on the owner tab, click on the edit button, and make sure to tick on "apply to all subfolders" if you see a button like that. Then you can go back to the main security and change the user/administrator permissions at will for the particular folder in question. All in good fun. If you give yourself "full control" there won't be any UAC prompts. Sure UAC could be implemented better, in those cases where it first tells you that windows needs permission, then it asks for permission.. why two prompts, why not just one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schieldrop Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 UAC isn't bad at all. Sure, it was tedious when I first configured my new Vista install, but now that everything is all straight, I rarely see UAC prompts and when I do, it's not a big deal. You really need to give your system a chance to settle into itself before you judge UACs obtrusiveness. Sure, it's annoying at first, but for most people, you won't deal with it all that much. I'm a serious power user and I haven't had to deal with a UAC prompt in a few days now. Mainly because I use my PC more than I tinker with it. :D Also, using UAC means IE runs in protected mode. Disabling UAC turns that off. IE in protected mode is a good thing -- it's a protected space. This is why you have to reboot when turning UAC on or off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eilegz Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 i disable UAC, too bad it disable protected mode for ie something that maybe would work better, I find UAC so annoying and more annoying that using linux in user mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsolete_power Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 You should only disable UAC if it is an absolute MUST. Even though the is annoying as spit, it can save you alot of heartache by stopping you from openening malicious files by accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleSpellbinder Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 UAC is, without a doubt, a good thing. Having said that, something as simple as renaming folders and/or files requires "permission". I click ok and all I get is "try again" over and over. I end up disabling UAC, restart, rename the folders/files I wish to rename, enable UAC, restart and continue with UAC enabled. That's far to many steps to do something as simple as rename a folder/file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwolfe Veteran Posted February 2, 2007 Veteran Share Posted February 2, 2007 UAC is, without a doubt, a good thing. Having said that, something as simple as renaming folders and/or files requires "permission". I click ok and all I get is "try again" over and over. I end up disabling UAC, restart, rename the folders/files I wish to rename, enable UAC, restart and continue with UAC enabled. That's far to many steps to do something as simple as rename a folder/file.In UAC's defense (and I am not a Vista user, so I don't have all of the details), but in your example, you are changing the name of a folder that does not belong to you, as whatever user you are logged in as. This could be a system folder, or some shared folder for multiple users.If the folders were properly assigned to you, it is my understanding that UAC will not prompt or warn at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzon Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 (edited) Having said that, something as simple as renaming folders and/or files requires "permission". NO NO NO THIS IS FALSE!!! UAC prompt doesn't appear if you rename your files/folders in places where you have permission i.e. in your user space (YOUR document folders, your downloads folder, YOUR desktop, etc.). UAC prompt appears only during file operations in system folders such as C:\Program Files, C:\Windows, etc. <snip> Please play nice Edited February 2, 2007 by Chad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleSpellbinder Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 NO NO NO THIS IS FALSE!!!UAC prompt doesn't appear if you rename your files/folders in places where you have permission i.e. in your user space (YOUR document folders, YOUR desktop, etc.). UAC prompt appears only during file operations in system folders such as C:\Program Files, C:\Windows, etc. This behavior is similar to linux/Mac OS but linux's users are not ignorant and stupid like you and so they don't use the root account every day! If you disable the UAC you're using an user with full privileges i.e. like Windows XP administrato accout (linux root) In UAC's defense (and I am not a Vista user, so I don't have all of the details), but in your example, you are changing the name of a folder that does not belong to you, as whatever user you are logged in as. It does this every time in BOTH my external hard drives with folders that I previously created.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vice Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 UAC was a good idea but the implementation is all wrong and thus I deactivated it. I found it an annoyance that I could live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzon Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 It does this every time in BOTH my external hard drives with folders that I previously created.. but you didn't create them with Vista and with your current Vista account. And anyway I have another hard disk with a lot of movies and images created with old Windows XP, and I'm able to access them without UAC prompts, without modifying file permissions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleSpellbinder Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 but you didn't create them with Vista and with your current Vista account. And I have another hard disk with a lot of movies and images created with old Windows XP, and I'm able to access them without UAC prompts, without modify file permissions I downloaded folders with Vista, attempted to rename, permission required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzon Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 I downloaded folders with Vista, attempted to rename, permission required. right now I've done this test to see if what you say is true or false: I downloaded a zip file with IE7 and I put it in other Hard Disk in D:\, then I renamed it and UAC is not appeared! Then I delete it and UAC is not appeared! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Live Veteran Posted February 2, 2007 Veteran Share Posted February 2, 2007 I downloaded folders with Vista, attempted to rename, permission required. That's... not really possible. Unless you elevated when you created the folder (or downloaded it from an elevated program - which you shouldn't ever have to do in the first place). If you can create a folder without elevating, you can rename it. UAC is, without a doubt, a good thing. Having said that, something as simple as renaming folders and/or files requires "permission". I click ok and all I get is "try again" over and over. doh! That's not UAC. If you get a prompt that says "Try Again" - it means the file (or a file under the folder you selected) is currently locked, so it can't perform the deletion or rename. Disabling UAC won't help you, other than the fact that it requires a reboot which would close the program that had been locking the file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleSpellbinder Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 That's... not really possible. Unless you elevated when you created the folder (or downloaded it from an elevated program - which you shouldn't ever have to do in the first place).If you can create a folder without elevating, you can rename it. I am the only user on my computer. UAC enabled. Downloaded a several music folders to my external hard drive (Western Digital My Book 400 Gig). Attempted to rename to folders to my liking, permission required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolslacker Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 No, iam fed up. I turned it off as soon as the installation finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the evn show Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 The approach they've taken ends up feeling like they decided to nag "This might screw you" as often as possible so if/when something breaks they can say "I warned you but you didn't listen. No our fault." The problem is that the warnings are damn near useless: DPI Service DPI Serivce more info------- {39393-3930233-29399393} What the hell does that mean, and why did it appear when I tried to change my font-size settings? The warnings don't tell me what is going on or why it's happening. The only thing I've been able to figure out is that whenever I say "no" the thing I'm trying to do doesn't work. Solution: Always click yes. I'm sure that one day these dialogs will warn me of something legitimately bad but how I am I expected to notice it from the innocuous stuff it bothers me with? The current approach trains you to ignore these dialogs. Buy the time a user runs into something actually dangerous these dialogs might as well not exist because the user clicks through time instinctively, when that happens they offer no security at all but plenty of annoyance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleSpellbinder Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 doh! That's not UAC. If you get a prompt that says "Try Again" - it means the file (or a file under the folder you selected) is currently locked, so it can't perform the deletion or rename.Disabling UAC won't help you, other than the fact that it requires a reboot which would close the program that had been locking the file. Ya know, that may be it. The Western Digital hard drive was being downloaded to from Soulseek. Could closing Soulseek "unlock" so I can rename folders within the drive?? I'll give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason S. Global Moderator Posted February 2, 2007 Global Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2007 i'd disable UAC right away :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzon Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 The problem is that the warnings are damn near useless:What the hell does that mean, and why did it appear when I tried to change my font-size settings? The warnings don't tell me what is going on or why it's happening. this is false, because when I try to change the font size, in the UAC prompt window I see: - this description "DPI resizing in control panel" (I translated to english) - a monitor icon - in details I see: Microsoft Windows C:\Windows\System32\DpiScaling.exe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Live Veteran Posted February 2, 2007 Veteran Share Posted February 2, 2007 What the hell does that mean, and why did it appear when I tried to change my font-size settings? The warnings don't tell me what is going on or why it's happening. The only thing I've been able to figure out is that whenever I say "no" the thing I'm trying to do doesn't work. Solution: Always click yes.I'm sure that one day these dialogs will warn me of something legitimately bad but how I am I expected to notice it from the innocuous stuff it bothers me with? The current approach trains you to ignore these dialogs. Buy the time a user runs into something actually dangerous these dialogs might as well not exist because the user clicks through time instinctively, when that happens they offer no security at all but plenty of annoyance. Fortunately, UAC doesn't require you to click "cancel" or "Don't allow" to help you. A lot of people misunderstand the purpose behind it. It isn't just another warning box like the ones in IE. http://brandonlive.com/2007/01/31/vista-my...-just-click-ok/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMELTN Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Yeah, "secpol.msc" - then go to "Security Options" and scroll down. Windows can not find 'secpol.msc'. Make sure you typed the name correctly, and then try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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