Huleboeren Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 This has to be the stupidest(?) idea....ever! The joypad cant compete with the mouse - especially not in these fast-paced shooters I hope they make X360 only and PC only servers possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 it would't be a bad idea if there were seperate roms and mixed rooms for users who want to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagamer34 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 So Xbox 360 players will be slaughtered? Nice! Funny how Epic didn't say anything about PS3 players though. Interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGS4-SS Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Guess that I'll have to get the PC version and not the X360 version :s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyLarry Veteran Posted February 6, 2007 Veteran Share Posted February 6, 2007 Maybe you should ask the thousands of people that have played Halo 2 Vista that all seem to be saying it makes no difference whether they're using K+M or a Controller. Bungie seems to have figured out a way to make it fair, and I'm willing to bet Epic is hard at work on a way to do so for this game.-Spenser Wait, you mean to tell me that a game devolped for a console originally and then was ported to the PC plays the same with a K+M as it does with a controller? :rolleyes: I mean cmon, is there really any surprise there? It is THE game made for their console, and for whatever reason, it is MS's baby for this whole Games For Windows campaign. So it comes as no surprise to me that it potentially plays the same, as they did everything in their power to make damn sure it played the same. Which if you read between the lines, they probably dumbed it down to make sure it did. OBVIOUSLY! We are talking about Epic here, they have been creating the Unreal Tournament series for years so I'm pretty sure they know how the PC gaming community works and how they can eliminate the advantage. :) See, the part I bolded out, that is definitely the main problem I foresee. Why should PC gamers have to possibly suffer and have their advantage eliminated? This is the one and only way I can fathom this working, and that would be to dumb down the precision on a PC. Yes, this is all speculation at this point, as none of us have played it. I am just basing my experience of playing the First Person Shooter genre on both platforms, using both a keyboard and mouse, and a controller. So based on my experience, I just cannot see how this can be done fairly without limiting the ability of the precision of a PC. Again, as I said above, if anyone can and should try this it is Epic. They are masters at this genre. With that said, I will be keeping an eye out on this to see how it develops, and even more important I am curious to hear what Epic says about implementing this feature. Actually, I found this little tidbit... Are there going to be any big differences between the PC and Xbox 360 versions?Morris: It'll all be the same game. A mouse is awesome for looking here, then looking here really fast and really precise and I don't know if there's a controller analogy for that. So we make sure that movement speed is down , we may increase the collision cylinder slightly but nothing too fundamental - it's all the same maps and all the same single-player. So it sounds like to me that they are willing to increase the collision cylinder on the consoles in order to give them a fighting chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodrigo Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 I was just going to point that out, DirtyLarry. They don't need to "dumb down" the PC version. They need to improve the accuaracy and response time of the console game (that's what I actually tried to say). :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyLarry Veteran Posted February 6, 2007 Veteran Share Posted February 6, 2007 I was just going to point that out, DirtyLarry. They don't need to "dumb down" the PC version. They need to improve the accuaracy and response time of the console game (that's what I actually tried to say). :) (Y) Never thought about it until I read that article I quoted, but if that is how they will achieve it, then sounds good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhearted Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 And once again, I can't help but stress that Epic have been making FPS's for years and years, it stands to reason that they'll know full well about the advantages of a mouse and keyboard over a controller and will no doubt balance it with aim helping for 360 owners. Either way, stop complaining about who's going to have an advantage unless you actually play it. I can't help but think epic will dumb down the game in various ways to make it easier for the console users. You can't do the faster moves of the pc on a controller, nor can you do twich aiming. So i can't help but think they'll have no choice but to hurt the game as a whole to accommodate the console kids in order to balance it. Maybe you should ask the thousands of people that have played Halo 2 Vista that all seem to be saying it makes no difference whether they're using K+M or a Controller. Bungie seems to have figured out a way to make it fair, and I'm willing to bet Epic is hard at work on a way to do so for this game.-Spenser Well ya know... you and i both know that halo is one of the slowest(and most boring due to that) multiplayer FPS's out there(halo fans will argue but it's true). that's why people say theres no difference cause the game is sooooooooo slow. That's how it's balanced(and popular for console gamers), cause it's so slow and simple. UT, on the other hand, has always been significantly faster(and a tad harder) and less likely to put you to sleep midgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dysphoria Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I am just basing my experience of playing the First Person Shooter genre on both platforms, using both a keyboard and mouse, and a controller. So based on my experience, I just cannot see how this can be done fairly without limiting the ability of the precision of a PC. Well I said in my previous post that EPIC can tweak the AUTO AIMING option for the console so it gives more advantage to the COnosle Players without compromising the PC Gaming Experience. EDIT: I just saw that Rodrigo passed the message :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrack Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 As long as there's "PC Only" and "360 Only" options it sounds like a good idea. Thats a good idea. I probably won't get it for the 360 if I have to play online with PC players. I'd get slaughtered more then I normally do and it wouldn't be worth it to me. Just wait to upgrade my PC and get it for that, if that becomes the case. I don't think anyone can argue that the difference in controls between the 360 and the PC does not give the PC an upper hand. Well I said in my previous post that EPIC can tweak the AUTO AIMING option for the console so it gives more advantage to the COnosle Players without compromising the PC Gaming Experience.EDIT: I just saw that Rodrigo passed the message :) I think that is a pretty crappy solution :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrack Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 One thing that I thought of is if one of the trigger buttons was somehow tied to the look speed of the right stick. The trigger buttons on the 360 are "analog" like the sticks are. If you held the trigger down further you could "look" and aim faster when you move the stick. Sounds complicated, but I'm sure after awhile people will get use to it. I just don't know if I will ever have the precision in my thumbs like I do in my wrist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyLarry Veteran Posted February 7, 2007 Veteran Share Posted February 7, 2007 Just curious if anyone knows, because I googled the hell out of it and did not find a single thing about it, but has anyone ever released a comparable number or study in regards to a console controller's "DPI" so to speak? For example we know the DPI of a Gaming Mouse, and although I know it would probably not even be called the same thing on a controller, I am thinking that there has to be a measurement similar to it. As I said I just could not find anything about it at all. Maybe it does not exist, just curious if anyone knows if it does. DPI Explained a little more. Dots-Per-InchThe most common metric of sensor performance is Dots-Per-Inch (DPI). DPI represents the number of pixels the PC display?s cursor will move when the mouse is moved one inch across the surface. When fast movement is required in a computer game, especially an action First-Person-Shooter (FPS) game like Quake? or Unreal Tournament?, DPI is an important metric. A higher DPI allows the player to make a 180 degree turn in a three-dimensional environment with less physical movement of the mouse. DPI has been incorrectly perceived as the defining metric of mouse performance, which has led to both a simplistic view of mouse performance and an attempt by some manufacturers to take advantage of the popular perception by artificially inflating the DPI specifications of their mice. Razer has always believed that sensor performance features such as speed and resolution should be built directly into the mouse?s firmware. Taken as the only metric, the best-in-class sensor available at the time of the publication of this white paper is rated at 2000 DPI, and is found in only two gaming mice in the market today, one of them being the Razer Copperhead?. Unfortunately, in the past year certain manufacturers have applied artificial software interpolation and lens magnification techniques in order to quote DPI figures as high as 3200. While such interpolation and lens techniques artificially inflate the DPI of the mouse, it correspondingly adversely affects the performance of the sensor in other areas such as hand movement speed which renders the mouse virtually unusable by demanding gamers. While DPI is important, sacrificing accuracy to simply quote a large number on the retail box has hurt the ability of the consumer to make informed buying decisions. The extent to which real, non-interpolated, native DPI is useful to a gamer depends on their play style. While the useful maximum varies between players, 3G Infrared Sensor technology has achieved advances that improve the sensor?s performance to 1800 DPI, a 200 DPI increase over the previous generation of optical sensors. Taken From RazerZone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCobra Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 See, the part I bolded out, that is definitely the main problem I foresee. Why should PC gamers have to possibly suffer and have their advantage eliminated? This is the one and only way I can fathom this working, and that would be to dumb down the precision on a PC. I can see it being 'dumbed down' a bit if a PC user connects to a Live server. I just hope that when it's PC playing PC then it's full blast like previous generations. If not, this will not be a purchase for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliott Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 They don't have to dumb down PCs. They just have to improve auto-aim for consoles. It doesn't take that long to turn around with a stick. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacer Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I don't know about the rest of you, but I see the "improve the console's auto-aim" as the worst solution to this problem. I consider the auto-aim feature of many shooters as cheating. With it turned on, your reticle jumps all over the place "locking on" to targets in order to make aiming easier. This effectively makes most weapons in such FPSs "grenades" as you only have to aim close to your target in order to hit them. It pretty much takes the skill factor out of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrack Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 They don't have to dumb down PCs. They just have to improve auto-aim for consoles. It doesn't take that long to turn around with a stick.Yes it does. It isn't just turning around, it is sweeping the area back and forth with a mouse so you can see what is going on all around you. There is quite a bit of difference. I don't know about the rest of you, but I see the "improve the console's auto-aim" as the worst solution to this problem. I consider the auto-aim feature of many shooters as cheating. With it turned on, your reticle jumps all over the place "locking on" to targets in order to make aiming easier. This effectively makes most weapons in such FPSs "grenades" as you only have to aim close to your target in order to hit them. It pretty much takes the skill factor out of the game. I agree w/ you that the auto-aim isn't a good solution. However, it has been my experience that when auto-aim is enabled on a FPS (console or PC) head-shots are nearly impossible to pull off...it just defaults to the chest area of the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerus Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Auto-Aim wouldn't help... I've already seen discussions in the UT community about setting up auto-bans for console players in their servers if cross platform does happen =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrack Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Auto-Aim wouldn't help... I've already seen discussions in the UT community about setting up auto-bans for console players in their servers if cross platform does happen =/ Seems like no one really thinks this is a good idea...hopefully Epic will listen to the community on this one and keep MP separate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliott Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 ...or maybe, just maybe, they could code in support for a keyboard and mouse in the 360 version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kushan Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 ...or maybe, just maybe, they could code in support for a keyboard and mouse in the 360 version? Microsoft absolutely, positively will not allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashel Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 With all the bastardization PC guys have to put up with because of the console wars this is just desserts if you ask me. Begin crying. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konstanov Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 mic abusing kiddies rejoice. You can now not only annoy console users, but pc users too.and before you flame me. No, i'm not against consoles. i'm against having to deal with the stupidity of alot of the children that play on them. You can avoid players. You will just go to their gamertag then click avoid this gamer and you are done with all of it. No more playing with that person Xbox Live automatically avoids putting you in a server with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliott Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Microsoft absolutely, positively will not allow it. And why not? If it's crucial to gameplay and it's a mode people prefer, then I think they'd be for it. That's like saying Microsoft wouldn't allow steering wheels, yet they even make one. And I'm also saying limit it to UT3. Don't use it in Halo 3 or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrack Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 And why not? If it's crucial to gameplay and it's a mode people prefer, then I think they'd be for it. That's like saying Microsoft wouldn't allow steering wheels, yet they even make one.And I'm also saying limit it to UT3. Don't use it in Halo 3 or anything. I would have to agree with you on that one. MS would be stupid not to allow keyboard and mouse gameplay with the xbox 360... it really opens up the system to look attractive to other PC game franchises like Starcraft :). Actually, if the XBox 360 came with a larger hard drive, supported keyboard and mouse, and had a built in web browser it would serve the needs that most people have with a computer! Probably an MS strategy going on here, by not allowing a mouse. Keyboards are actually supported, but not very useful for anything other then filling in random (and rare) text fields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kushan Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 You don't understand, the 360 DOES support mouse and keyboard, any good USB ones will work fine, but Microsoft simply will not allow players to use them in games to control anything. For example, you can use them in Oblivion to type the names of spells out or whatever, but not control the character (and that's a SP only game). It's not a question of whether or not it's possible, it's just Microsoft will simply not allow it and they've said several times that they wont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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