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will sp1 for vista really make it worth switching from xp

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martym    0

Will sp1 for vista really make it worth switching from xp. First how long will it take for sp to come out for vista 6 months, a year. Second a lot of annoying features like uac are still going to be there by design and will not fixed by a service pack. Third there will be no gurantee that dx9c games will work faster than they do in xp(probably still work slower). I also think a lot of older programs will never work properly with vista and you will just have to replace them.

Finally will sp1 for vista just be a bug fix or will also it include software design changes to in response to conusmer complaints. I think vista and needs to be redesigned some more to make it better

Edited by martym

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Olemus    19

no one really knows whats going to come in SP1, However i disagree with you when you say that vista needs to ehmm "be redesigneg" i believe there it is a big improvement over XP and im wondering where its been for the past 5 years

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Raa    1,589

I agree in both parts, vista does need more redesigning, however the current design IS good.

I'm simply steering clear until the first SP so bugs can be dealt with, faster speeds, etc.

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OPaul    0

SP1 is due second half of 2007, but I'm sure it'll be later.

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Brandon Live    232

Vista SP1 is just a "regular" service pack. It will be a compilation of bug fixes and security updates.

Second, I'm not sure what you mean when you say that UAC won't be "fixed" by an SP? UAC doesn't need "fixing" - it works great the way it is.

DirectX 9 games tend to run the same or faster in Vista, as the 3D pipeline has been hugely improved thanks to the new driver model. Of course, some manufacturers don't have their new drivers finished yet... but they'll fix that soon enough.

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S7un7    3
DirectX 9 games tend to run the same or faster in Vista

What is your source for that statement?

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S550    128
What is your source for that statement?

the fact he works for MS

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Denis W.    732
Second, I'm not sure what you mean when you say that UAC won't be "fixed" by an SP? UAC doesn't need "fixing" - it works great the way it is.

If you guys, or the team responsible for UAC can figure out how to prevent double popups from appearing in Vista - with Explorer attempting to get access to a restricted folder, with downloaded files invoking a XP SP2-style security warning, THEN a UAC warning, and clicking on a restricted folder dialog and then a UAC dialog while copying files - UAC will then be less of a nuisance. Another fix that would also come in handy is figuring out a way to prevent such a hard flicker from occuring when switching to Secure Desktop. (Maybe the interactive user's desktop quickly fades to black, then the secure desktop fades in?) I don't mind having no glass on the UAC box itself, but the flicker is suicide for epiletic users.

For now, UAC is bearable, but far from perfect. Maybe by fixing that you'll get less people running around and chanting I'M NOT A NOOB I'M SHUTTING OFF UAC!

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andrew_f    26

I personally have had no issue with UAC, it makes me feel a bit safer using my computer - i'm not a "noob" but theres no problem with extra security :)

The one change I would like to see apart from the security fixes etc. is any XP icons removed... Fine, if you didn't have time to change them all over I'm okay with that 'cos the ones you did were good -but now you do so please do it Mr. Microsoft Artist Man ;)

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DrCheese    103

It'd be nice if the option to customise UAC so that it auto accepts everything but still locks down other stuff(Like Brandon live posted the other day), Was more advertised in the GUI, so that power users won't straight away go and turn it off, rather trying that first.

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S7un7    3
the fact he works for MS

Of course MS is going to say Vista is faster to push sales. I'm not trying to start something. I serously wanted to know because I didn't upgrade because atleast 5 sources I found say XP is faster. Just google 'gaming xp vs vista'.

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PsychoDoughBoy    0
the fact he works for MS

That wouldn't make it a particularly objective statement then. Unless, of course, it was qualified with metrics.

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null_    4
If you guys, or the team responsible for UAC can figure out how to prevent double popups from appearing in Vista - with Explorer attempting to get access to a restricted folder, with downloaded files invoking a XP SP2-style security warning, THEN a UAC warning, and clicking on a restricted folder dialog and then a UAC dialog while copying files - UAC will then be less of a nuisance. Another fix that would also come in handy is figuring out a way to prevent such a hard flicker from occuring when switching to Secure Desktop. (Maybe the interactive user's desktop quickly fades to black, then the secure desktop fades in?) I don't mind having no glass on the UAC box itself, but the flicker is suicide for epiletic users.

For now, UAC is bearable, but far from perfect. Maybe by fixing that you'll get less people running around and chanting I'M NOT A NOOB I'M SHUTTING OFF UAC!

Yes, that flicker is a real pain in the rear. This was reported to be fixed several beta builds ago and, look ma, it's still there! Stupid regressions.

I'm waiting for Windows Vista SP1 before I upgrade any of my machines - one of the biggest reasons for this is I can't install the operating system without having to remove 2GB of RAM, install a hotfix, and then put my RAM back in. If I don't do this, it simply blue screens and won't install (this is supposedly an issue with the NVIDIA chipsets and Storport.sys drivers but how the hell did this get past quality assurance?)

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OPaul    0
DirectX 9 games tend to run the same or faster in Vista, as the 3D pipeline has been hugely improved thanks to the new driver model. Of course, some manufacturers don't have their new drivers finished yet... but they'll fix that soon enough.

I have not seen 1 review so far that shows games running faster in Vista then they did in XP. Which games did you find that ran faster?

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Mordkanin    225
If you guys, or the team responsible for UAC can figure out how to prevent double popups from appearing in Vista - with Explorer attempting to get access to a restricted folder, with downloaded files invoking a XP SP2-style security warning, THEN a UAC warning, and clicking on a restricted folder dialog and then a UAC dialog while copying files - UAC will then be less of a nuisance. Another fix that would also come in handy is figuring out a way to prevent such a hard flicker from occuring when switching to Secure Desktop. (Maybe the interactive user's desktop quickly fades to black, then the secure desktop fades in?) I don't mind having no glass on the UAC box itself, but the flicker is suicide for epiletic users.

For now, UAC is bearable, but far from perfect. Maybe by fixing that you'll get less people running around and chanting I'M NOT A NOOB I'M SHUTTING OFF UAC!

Why do we need the first prompt at all? The first prompt is explorer-generated, because it has to spawn a new process as an admin to do the operation, it asks you if you want to procede, and the second prompt is UAC asking if you want to allow the new process explorer just created. If they removed the first prompt, we'd still get the second. Isn't that enough?

I have not seen 1 review so far that shows games running faster in Vista then they did in XP. Which games did you find that ran faster?

Games should run Faster in vista once the drivers don't suck. From what they say, DirectX is supposed to run faster because of changes to the driver model/kernel/etc.

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Yvo    0
If you guys, or the team responsible for UAC can figure out how to prevent double popups from appearing in Vista - with Explorer attempting to get access to a restricted folder, with downloaded files invoking a XP SP2-style security warning, THEN a UAC warning, and clicking on a restricted folder dialog and then a UAC dialog while copying files - UAC will then be less of a nuisance. Another fix that would also come in handy is figuring out a way to prevent such a hard flicker from occuring when switching to Secure Desktop. (Maybe the interactive user's desktop quickly fades to black, then the secure desktop fades in?) I don't mind having no glass on the UAC box itself, but the flicker is suicide for epiletic users.

For now, UAC is bearable, but far from perfect. Maybe by fixing that you'll get less people running around and chanting I'M NOT A NOOB I'M SHUTTING OFF UAC!

Well said. Not only did you give specific examples to back up your point, these truly are items that would make UAC better.

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OPaul    0

A "Safe List" would be nice for UAC, I keep having to manually launch Miranda IM and Steam in Administrator mode, even though the shortcut is supposed to do it.

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Long    3
A "Safe List" would be nice for UAC, I keep having to manually launch Miranda IM and Steam in Administrator mode, even though the shortcut is supposed to do it.

Whats to stop a malicious file from writing to or reading from that "safe list" and adjust the application accordingly? ;)

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null_    4
Whats to stop a malicious file from writing to or reading from that "safe list" and adjust the application accordingly? ;)

Make it a secured area that uses Secure Desktop for adding / modifying the list.

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OPaul    0
Whats to stop a malicious file from writing to or reading from that "safe list" and adjust the application accordingly? ;)

Make it write protected. If it reads, it won't be a big deal. Create a hash for each safe application.

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Hurmoth    518
Will sp1 for vista really make it worth switching from xp.
I have recommended to people who have asked me if they should upgrade to Vista to wait until SP1. Right now there are still applications that do not fully support Vista and will by the time SP1 is released, so I'm recommending to hold off. SP1 will be released with Longhorn Server, so it isn't that long of a wait. Shoot, we've waited 5 years for Vista, what's another 6-8 months :p

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Brandon Live    232

Safe List for UAC

Never going to happen. Then malicious code could potentially launch an application on the "safe list" and manipulate it in such a way that it launches a malicious application with elevated privileges.

Secure Desktop switch

The team responsible for SD is certainly looking at ways to improve that experience, I just wouldn't expect big changes in SP1, though you never know. The "flicker" you might see can be minimized with a good display driver - many of the current ones are just slow at switching desktops for a couple of reasons. For instance, the switch is instantaneous and flicker-free on my MacBook with the Intel GMA 950 driver, but really slow (I actually see a black screen for nearly a second) on my desktop with a 7800 GTX. My three-monitor system with two ATI cards at work is just as bad (especially because the 3 monitors don't even have the courtesy to flicker in sync with each other). Fortunately, that means that future driver updates should correct this issue.

Excess prompts in Explorer

I hate those. Unfortunately I wasn't on the shell team when they were added, if I was I would've raised a big stink about it :p Hopefully we can improve that soon.

Direct3D performance in Vista

Direct3D is faster in Vista, it's just that the current drivers are not. However, you can already see examples of Vista's performance improvements in games like Battlefield 2142.

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hotdog666al    31

Do you really need people to tell you if it's a good idea to switch or not?

The feature list is there, you've read about the pros and cons, make your own mind up.

I have. :)

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JustGeorge    1,665
A "Safe List" would be nice for UAC, I keep having to manually launch Miranda IM and Steam in Administrator mode, even though the shortcut is supposed to do it.

Miranda starts up from a shortcut without issue here and UAC has never been disabled.

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InternalStorm    0
Of course MS is going to say Vista is faster to push sales. I'm not trying to start something. I serously wanted to know because I didn't upgrade because atleast 5 sources I found say XP is faster. Just google 'gaming xp vs vista'.

Gaming is within 10%. And to be honest, it will only get better. Some games are faster in Vista, some are slower. There are sites with benchmarks comparing the two.

As for running Vista, gaming is not everything. It is actually quite a bit faster than XP when doing desktop work and multitasking. Starting programs is faster because of better memory caching and management, and everything is just snappy, more so than in XP. Also, stability is much better and unstable programs are cut off from effecting the rest of the system so you can easily shut it down.

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