Broken Features and Annoyances in Vista

[Southern Patriot]

Sounds like you are copying, not moving. If you were moving, the source would be deleted after the merge.

Then the exact nature of the complaint changes, but Microsoft has still changed the behavior of Explorer. If you drag a folder from one location on the same drive, the folder should be moved (at least it has been in previous versions). What seems to be happening now is that if you drop the original folder onto a folder with the same name, you get the new "merge" dialog, the files are moved, but the original folder remains in place. Unfortunately, it isn't consistant, i.e. I can't always reproduce it, so I can't (yet) tell you the exact steps that I've taken to get this to happen.

There is a rare bug where people who use the folder tree (rare) and then multiselect in the list view by clicking on the background and dragging the selection over a few items (without ever clicking on one) can end up with the UI focus still back in the folder tree and not on the newly selected items. However if you then press "delete" or something the dialog that comes up will tell you you're trying to delete the folder (that you selected in the tree view).

Yes, I see that from other thread that it has been reported. I just hope it is fixed soon, because for me it's not "rare", it is very consistant. Clicking in the file pane SHOULD ALWAYS put the UI focus in that pane, if you click on a file or not. Unfortunately, right now it depends on exactly where in the file pane you click. And there is at least one case where it's not really clear what you are deleting: if you are deleting a subfolder that happens to have the same name as the parent folder.

[Dashel]

Sounds like you are copying, not moving. If you were moving, the source would be deleted after the merge

I can confirm this occurs as well. If you merge folders it still leaves the old container folders of the same name behind (noticed it first when moving profile folders (Pictures, Music, etc).

On the 'double' selection issue, the bug seems to have cleared up after RC2 as I can no longer reproduce it. Problem still exists however that (maybe its just the shade of blue used) but it becomes difficult to tell between an active window's highlight and one that has fallen out of focus (which was never a question in XP). I can't tell you how many times I've already accidentally gone into 'rename' mode when making sure the correct files is selected.

[nautiqueskier]

The merging issue drives me nuts as well. I hate having seperate start menus for different accounts so I always move all the user specific start menus to the all users group. However in Vista, merged folders aren't deleted, so I have to go back and delete them

My other huge annoyance is UAC when you create a new folder. You are asked once to elevate to create the folder (which is okay) and then again to actually give the folder a name. Surely it wouldn't be hard for MS to elevate the entire "create folder" process.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Then the exact nature of the complaint changes, but Microsoft has still changed the behavior of Explorer. If you drag a folder from one location on the same drive, the folder should be moved (at least it has been in previous versions). What seems to be happening now is that if you drop the original folder onto a folder with the same name, you get the new "merge" dialog, the files are moved, but the original folder remains in place. Unfortunately, it isn't consistant, i.e. I can't always reproduce it, so I can't (yet) tell you the exact steps that I've taken to get this to happen.

I just tried it. On the same drive, a move still occurs and the source items are deleted. The exception I saw was that if I had to click "Move and replace" to overwrite an item in the location, the old folder remained (even though its contents were now empty). A bit odd but since it did delete all the items underneath it seems like a minor detail - it's probably keeping that folder around in case you decide to skip items instead of overwriting them (in which case the original folder needs to still be there so the skipped items don't get lost).

My other huge annoyance is UAC when you create a new folder. You are asked once to elevate to create the folder (which is okay) and then again to actually give the folder a name. Surely it wouldn't be hard for MS to elevate the entire "create folder" process.

Yeah that's a known issue that we hope to improve on.

[freak_power]

:x

[AlexMagik]

You are missing my point. Try it. The folder you are moving FROM should be deleted if you are moving it, but it isn't, it stays there.

I'm telling you that it has happened. You need to learn to read, I never said anything about two different windows. I said the folder and file panes in a single Explorer window.

Yep, that is exactly what I'm talking about. Thanks for that, I had never seen that thread before.

OK, i got it :) i misunderstood your meaning in the first post.

are you moving from a place to another under the UAC control?

for example, if you move 1 subfolder under Docs to another under another folder in docs, UAC doesn't ask you, but if you do the same under c:\program files or other places not belong to your profile, then UAC will kick in... maybe it's a bug in the UAC control.

I never see the problem because i try to keep divided my stuff from the programs.. docs and other stuff are on a second disk.

[blade1269]

hey,

starting to get messsy in here...

[Southern Patriot]

I just tried it. On the same drive, a move still occurs and the source items are deleted. The exception I saw was that if I had to click "Move and replace" to overwrite an item in the location, the old folder remained (even though its contents were now empty). A bit odd but since it did delete all the items underneath it seems like a minor detail - it's probably keeping that folder around in case you decide to skip items instead of overwriting them (in which case the original folder needs to still be there so the skipped items don't get lost).

OK, so I'm not going crazy. That seems to be the situation where it does that. I still see it as a bug because in reality, if the folder is empty after the move, then it SHOULD delete the folder.

While doing some testing on this yesterday, I came across another odd bug, one that I've seen once or twice before but for the life of me can't intentionally replicate. Sometimes (and again, I stress that I can't figure out how exactly to replicate this) if you restore a file from the Recycle Bin it gets restored as an empty folder instead of the original file (although the folder has the same name). I've mostly noticed this with AVI files, although I'm not certain if it is limited to a specific file type. Thankfully "Previous Versions" saved my butt on this one yesterday.

By the way, towards the bottom of the first page on this thread ( https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=539241 ), some people are talking about another odd bug that I've seen sometimes: you do not have permission to delete a file or folder that you have created, even after clicking OK on the UAC prompt. Something seems to be locking it. This is another bug that exists, but is very hard to precisely replicate, but from what I've seen it mostly seems to occur when a program you are running creates the folder (such as unraring an archive), even after that program has exited.

Edited February 16, 2007 by roadwarrior

[AlexMagik]

yes, the deleting of a temp folder happen also to me.

sometimes seems vista "thinks" somehow that the directory is in use and doesn't let me delete it, had to reboot and then worked.

sorry to hear that you have so much troubles with Vista... i'm using it for a long time and most of these problems never happen to me.

by the way, RoadWarrior, can you try to replicate the problem in a folder that doesn't require UAC to kick in?

[Southern Patriot]

yes, the deleting of a temp folder happen also to me.

sometimes seems vista "thinks" somehow that the directory is in use and doesn't let me delete it, had to reboot and then worked.

sorry to hear that you have so much troubles with Vista... i'm using it for a long time and most of these problems never happen to me.

by the way, RoadWarrior, can you try to replicate the problem in a folder that doesn't require UAC to kick in?

The problem has nothing to do with UAC, I never said it did. Go back and read Brandon Live's description on the last page. He nailed it: It happens when merging two folders and the "move and replace" dialog box comes up. It's a bug in the "move and replace" routine.

I think I have more trouble with Explorer than the average person because I use it far more than the average person. I spend a good portion of my day downloading from newsgroups, then sorting things from my download folder into other folders. I almost always use Explorer in the list view with a folder pane because that is the workflow that I've used for many years now. Personally, I wish there was some way to revert Explorer to Windows 2000 or XP like behavior (preferably 2000, I liked having the playable thumbnails of videos that they took away with XP). It seems that Explorer has lost features with every iteration since Windows ME, and gained more bugs! I've actually though of simply setting up Windows 2000 in Virtual PC just for my newsgroup activities. If some of these bugs don't get resolved, I may just do that.

Edited February 16, 2007 by roadwarrior

[rajputwarrior]

6)Speaking of comparing to apples: the "Switch Between Windows" function looks pretty cool in Aero mode, but isn't very useful because you can't see the whole window in front of you to choose from. It's just a big GIMMICK! Apple's Expose is much more functional. Yeah, and anybody could of "guessed" the HOTKEY for it was the "window key"+Tab. The tiles are too bunched up. Get with the game MS.. if you going to "copy" at least make it better or equal.

i agree with that, i have to go out of my way to use flip3d, expos? works, it's real time and it scales great. Flip3d just doesn't work great for multiple windows and the best part of Expos? is that you can use it with your cursor and assign it to a corner of the screen, which is awesome for multitasking, no keyboard needed. Flip3d, not even close in regards to usefulness, argue that one brandon.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

By the way, towards the bottom of the first page on this thread ( https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=539241 ), some people are talking about another odd bug that I've seen sometimes: you do not have permission to delete a file or folder that you have created, even after clicking OK on the UAC prompt. Something seems to be locking it. This is another bug that exists, but is very hard to precisely replicate, but from what I've seen it mostly seems to occur when a program you are running creates the folder (such as unraring an archive), even after that program has exited.

That happens in XP too, it's just that the error is different. Unfortunately, Explorer's messaging isn't too good at differentiating between "Access denied" because you don't have permission, and "Access Denied" because another program has locked the file. Unlike XP where it would just fail, you'll now get a "Try Again / Cancel" option. Unfortunately it still doesn't tell you which other program is locking the file, which is one of my personal pet peeves.

[nevets]

instead of click on the drop down arrow, click on the > arrow that divide the directories, you will see disks, directories, etc...

Using it regular explorer mode is ok. That's what I do. But the pulldown function is basically broken: It's there in basicall every window but it has no logical use. It only shows websites, and you can't just save to a website anyway so why even have it there? To me, It's a bug and should be fixed. Also, try saving files downloaded using IE. The pulldown would be a one click operation to go where you need. But MS assumes you want to always put in the "download" directory.

instead of using the left click when drag and drop, use the right one, when you release the mouse button, will ask you if copy or move.

i don't have such problem, do you use list view, or what? i've all middle size icons, and when i move stuff over i can clearly see where i'm putting them...

drag and drop is a slow process. At times I have many files and need to do it fast with just keystrokes. Before I can click the next file i find that needs to move the the same folder with just a click of "move or copy" and enter without looking. This is a very waste of time to visually target everything. I don't mind extra functions, but functions that use to work perfectly fine should not be removed. OPTIONS are good.

go in the advanced configuration of the profile you are using, the option is there...

I did.... It's not there. I want the power button to "ask me if what i want to do". Another function that was lost and could have just been keep with no problem. Looking through all the options, I get the feeling that MS just want to advertise the sleep function.

you can create keyboard shortcuts for the programs, not sure for the volume control/brightness.. i think all the laptops have these 2 functions, as keys or as Fn+keys...

Got so much function keys not being used. Be nice if i can use them to launch my programs I want. Using the touchpad on the road is not very efficient. I'm a keyboard person that's all. Not a big deal as long as I can find some software out there were i can do this.

this seems just another free ranting from an apple user... anyway...

in Vista you have Win+Tab or Alt+Tab. if you install Intellipoint, the middle click is another way to get the lists, with preview and titles.

I got one apple and 5 pc's.;) Have you tried the Expose? I bring the Mac to do some of my IT work bc the Expose allows me to "in an instant" display all the windows in front of me for comparison and monitoring. Sure you can place the windows manually.. but it's a waste of time. With a single glance see which page i want in front. I'm not ranting... when I feel a function is good it's worth a mention. Why not just add an option to show the windows in such a manner?

I don't use the Mac most of the time bc I don't like the way the UI makes me use the mouse/touchpad all the time.

[nevets]

Here's to fix them, Shut up and format your hard drive with XP and if your smart enough you could have googled "Make Windows Vista act like XP" Or you could have downloaded Tweakvista.

I always tweak my OS, but it's an ANNOYANCE. You tell them peeps like me to format a new computer and install XP. Yeah.. just buy some XP licenses or better yet ... install a priate copy of XP. And them Tweak XP again too.

Just because they don't suite you doesn't mean other people find these useful, Microsoft made these changes to help the ease of clicking millions of times just to get to a folder. Most of the changes was requested by Beta testers and has been requested for sometime.

It's good to add functions to make it easier for others, but don't take away good functions that were there before... such as customizing the menu, pulldown actions, etc. Some of these functions could have been kept from XP and would not have interfered with the new functions at all.

That was beta.... now that people are start using it... we'll see if it actually helps improve productivity.

[Aero Ultimate]

This is my BIGGEST gripe with Vista. I have always added a 'Delete' icon to the icon bar in Windows Explorer the minute I use any PC. It is SOOOOOO bloody frustrating having to either hit the delete key on the keyboard, or having to perform a right mouse click, then hunt the delete command in the menu, and then make another click, just to delete a file!

REALLY Microsoft, please add some sort of customisation in the next Service Pack, PLEASE!

I'm in complete agreement with this one.

Same for me. Not being able to costumize the toolbar is awful, as the fixed coices are utter crap :crazy:

It should be more visible where you drag your files, too.

Anyone knows a good explorer replacement for Vista so we don't have to bother with this crap any longer?

[mattrobs]

I don't understand your complaints on the new drag and drop. Your annoyed because you can't see what you're dragging onto in Details view? Why not use the Tiles view then? Use copy and paste if you like Details view.

I welcome the improved drag and drop. You can actually see what you're dragging now. Not some generic 'move' icon. And it clearly shows you what happens after the drag. The arrow means move, the + copy, and the curved arrow create shortcut (which you can change by holding Ctrl, Shift or Alt). Hell, if you hover for a bit, a tooltip tells you what it's goin' do.

[nevets]

My biggest gripe about Explorer: When moving (actually "merging") a folder into another folder of the same name, the original folder is not deleted; the empty folder and any empty subfolders are left in place. This is contrary to the expected action (well, at least it's contrary to what has been the expected action for the last 10+ years on Windows).

I get that in XP in couple of cases:

1) Folder is in different partitions/drives... Drag and drop automatically assumes copy. If it was in the same partition. Move is assumed. (unless using the right click to drag.. then it will ask you).

2) File is corrupt or locked in a folder. But it would partially move some and give me error.

I've also accidentally deleted a folder because, for some odd reason, Windows Explorer will now actually allow you to select in both the folder pane AND the file pane at the same time! Not sure if that is supposed to be a "feature" or if it is truly a bug though. Either way it is damned annoying!!

I went over to the past post over at https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?show...507187&st=0

At first I thought it was a RC bug... but till I got to a post with the following instructions:

1. Click on a folder in the Folders list.

2. Click and hold the mouse button down on the white space next to a folder/file name in the details pane (be sure to keep the mouse cursor inside the Name column), and then drag it out to select the other folders/files.

3. Note that the folders/files just selected don't gain focus (they get highlighted grey). The folder name in the Folder list is still selected, so when I press the Delete key on my keyboard it asks to delete that folder.

YES, IT CAN STILL BE REPRODUCED.

I made a test folder and a bunch of folders and files inside. After I hit delete, I got a prompt for confirmation. Now, this is trivial, because if you were careful you would see the prompt to delete folder. But I have in many times start cleaning up my folders and don't look too closely at every prompt. I have in may cases done this in XP, but it never deletes the folder because the focus is automatically put to the last click of the mouse.

A bug... shall we say? :whistle:

A bug down to the core of the OS... was never there in the past OS releases.

[Deactivated Account]

Vista's Windows Update is a Broken Feature and Annoyance.. It cant find my Soundcard but it could find a keyboard that is not evan my keyboard..

I have a MS Wireless Desktop Laser 6000 but yet Vista's Windows update is saying that i have a "keyMaestro - Other Hardware - PS2 KeyMaestro Multimedia Keyboard (x86)"

My message to MS is.. I WANT MY MONEY BACK... why in the hell would you release a OS that still has SO MEANY BUGS in it???

[kaiwai]

It's possible , just delete the links folder in users\yourusername\ , you can also add whatever you like there too.

My gripe is for the picture viewer , it keeps opening a new window for every image i click, is there any tweak to make it reuse the existing window ? I don't want nor need 50 picture viewer windows open

Hmm, especially annoying when you wanna look at some porn.

If all the pictures are in one folder, then just press the next button.

[Karl Sheldon]

Might as well add to the foray in here.

Odd bugs I have seen and features !

Move a folder and the original folder remains but empty - often occurs

Unable to delete a file as you don't have permission - its locked by a program since closed Why!

Windows Media player caries on forever when simple closed with the X, check task manager it eats your memory.

Unable to drag a menu from the taskbar onto the desktop as a floating menu or against another side of the screen to create a quick menu bar. (been able to do this since Windows 95) Feature !

NVidia Driver crashes on resume from sleep - but restarts so not too bad.

New Sleep mode comes back to screen very quick, but you can't do nothing until it has loaded all the rest up still so its just like hibernate with quick display. Doh ! Why!

Windows update does not always check updates automaticaly - yes its set to advise me after downloading.

Vista like to take ages drawing advice boxes - slowing the already damm slow copy or move code further, it even asks questions twice sometimes, and where is the attention to detail with two differing dialogs for folder and file over-rite controls - No one noticed !

Error reporting checks for solutions but with the exception of telling me IE7 crashed because Firefox was the cause and there is a new version (I have 2.01 and it was not running !) Oh Well !! That's the only feedback for 67 errors so far since Jan 20th so what gives eh! I get blue screen from something PNF List error and google can give me a reason or two but not MS error reporting Why !

Oh well I bet there are a good many more of these to be found in the cooming months, maybe Vista SP1 will be the finished product as its clear things were rushed to launch on time - I feel the RC1 was better in many areas - if not quite as compatable in aresa - it was more polished and stable for me.

[mattrobs]

NVidia Driver crashes on resume from sleep - but restarts so not too bad.

New Sleep mode comes back to screen very quick, but you can't do nothing until it has loaded all the rest up still so its just like hibernate with quick display. Doh ! Why!

They're Nvidia's problems, not Microsoft's (sleep works immediately for me; it's their driver's fault).

[Sockie]

Hi Brandon, you're a Microsoft guy right? You never did answer me. Are you on the Windows Team, I mean the new Windows Team being put together by Sinofsky. Just touching base to see what the new crew behind Windows "Vienna" / "Seven" is going to be like.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Yeah I work in the new Windows Experience division on the Find and Organize team (part of what used to be called "Windows Shell").

[aoi tsuki]

Fans of Expose should check out My Expose. Works almost as well as Expose on the Mac. i only wish you could select the desktop using it.

[-Dave-]

Same for me. Not being able to costumize the toolbar is awful, as the fixed coices are utter crap :crazy:

It should be more visible where you drag your files, too.

Anyone knows a good explorer replacement for Vista so we don't have to bother with this crap any longer?

you do realise its quicker to use keyboard commands so pretty much all menu operations ?

i only ever use the mouse if i need to highlight a specific bookmark or link on a web page!!