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Broken Features and Annoyances in Vista

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johnathonm    0

Woo...actually what I hate is Nvida. I hope they diaf. Their driver support, even with DX9 cards sucks. I love how in a dual monitor configuration after the displays go to sleep, the secondary monitor tends to just "die". Leading you to have to manually disable and renable the display under the old display properties dialog.

Die Nvidia....

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nevets    0
Comparing an OS to a car is a crazy idea, much less the idea of comparing 'betas'.

The OS is a product that a lot of people and business depend on. People put their hard earned money in it. Do you think MS should be immune to the high standards of a making a real quality product? Good thing there's AMD otherwise I could only imagine the the same thing with Intel.

If you don't want to compare to cars... then compare it to Processors. Intel makes quality bug free processors. They are serious about their product. MS is just serious of how to market their product.

A car is far simpler than an OS. At all stages of development there are major differences.

You have no Idea what it takes to design a car. You have no idea how difficult it is to fully test a car. Having different stages of development doesn't mean it should have a different standards for the final product. Even Bill Gates admits using beta testers for free to test the OS. Cheapo... pay people and get the job done complete before selling!

You can sit on your ass all day and play with and OS to find little bugs. Everything can be simulated on the computer.

I worked in design and R&D in automotive and Testing a vehicle takes days to test in the fields. A buddy of mine does software testing, and he zips through a corporate database programs in a matter of hours. Reporting any bugs found.

Unless your talking about cars that still use distributor caps and two valves and single cams... yeah you can compare that to Vista.

Device Manager does not seem to want to launch from the System Properties anymore. Can't seem to find a fix. Re-enabled all my services to the windows default and turned on UAC, and it still doesn't seem to want to work.

You can just Launch it from "right click" on "my computer" icon ==> manage

you'll find Device manager there.

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BajiRav    2,137
Comparing an OS to a car is a crazy idea, much less the idea of comparing 'betas'. They are very, very different. You can model a car to see how it acts. A car is far simpler than an OS. At all stages of development there are major differences.

If people had the opportunity to drive a concept car, they would leap at the chance.

You have no idea how a car is designed/manufactured, do you ? :p Just try designing valve timings on an engine. ;-)

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Julius Caro    55

There's a "feature" I really HATE in Vista, and that is removing USB devices. In XP, if you were browsing a removable USB drive and you clicked on the "remove safely" thing, that window would be closed (Providing there was no I/O thing going on) and you would get one of those balloons telling you that you can now safely remove the device.

In vista, if windows explorer is open browsing the drive, you will always get a message that you can't remove the device, even if you can. You have to close that windows first. And when you actually get to remove it, you get a pop up message (just like in windows 2000!), instead of the less intrusive xp friendly balloon.

Bring back the balloon!!

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SonComet    0

I posted this in another thread, but it is my lead annoyance:

"I just realized, after over a week, that readyboost wasn't saving at all for me either. System specs are:

Athlon64 X2 4400+

DFI Lan Party NF4 Ultra-D (Latest bios, default vista drivers)

320GB/16MB WD hdd

2GB Corsair 3500LLPRO (2-3-2-5-1T)

Ati X1800XL (catalyst 7.2)

Creative X-Fi Xtrememusic

Partriot XPorterXT 4GB usb flash drive

Now here's the problem. At first I had the issue where when the drive was tested and enabled for Readyboost it would write the cache correctly and then disappear 45-60 seconds later. I managed to get around that by formatting the drive, removing it from the computer, rebooting, and then retesting and enabling it again. After doing that it would hold for as long as the computer was on. Great right? Not really.

Now here comes the second problem. My boot order in my BIOS is 1st Device = CDROM, Second Device = HDDISK, and Third Device = Removable. When I get Readyboost to enable correctly in Windows Vista and actually stay, when I reboot my BIOS stops it and says something to the effect of "Boot device order has been changed. F1 continue, Del to verify." If I verify everything is as it was in the same order. If I hit F1 it just continues. However, either way when I get into windows Readyboost claims to be enabled, the service is running on automatic in services, BUT the cache is not on the drive and it is empty.

I have tried both FAT32 and NTFS. The thing with NTFS is that the cache does stay after a reboot, but then it disappears 45-60 seconds later. FAT32 just totally disappears after a reboot and I must format, remove, restart, insert, enable to get it working again.

Am I doing something wrong, anyone with a similar setup see something I can do differently? Oh and the usb drive is vista ready according to both newegg and patriot memory."

I still haven't gotten it working, and today I haven't even been able to get it to stick at all.

Oh, that and I am convinced that wmp11 and mediacenter use video black on a 0-256 scale. I am convinced black starts at 16 (I think dvds use a 16-235 range). Unless I turn my brightness down to the point of crushing to 16 (which is pretty typical of a lot of lcds so that is the reason I think most people must not notice this) it washes the video out both in test patterns and practice. When I crush to 15 or 16 the test patterns look perfect in wmp11. Quicktime on the other hand must use black at 0 instead of at 16, so it looks fine just like the desktop since desktop black also starts at 0.

Oh and Windows Photo Gallery has some really annoying issues of it's own. In the windowed view of a picture it washes it out, in fullscreen (you hit play and it goes into it's full screen display thing) it doesn't do it. However, if you use "fade" view instead of "classic" it pixelates and lowers the quality of the image it's displaying. Now I know in "fade" mode it stretches things to fit, but I am talking about degradation of 1920x1200, 1600x1200, XXXx1200 images (my native res is 1920x1200). If I switch over to classic it looks perfect with no ugly artifacts and quality loss. It's my theory that outside of of the fullscreen viewing mode that it must use the same elevated blacks as wmp11.

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Brandon Live    232
You have no idea how a car is designed/manufactured, do you ? :p Just try designing valve timings on an engine. ;-)

You're not actually contending that designing or building a car is even remotely near as complicated as building an OS like Windows... right? There aren't anywhere close to the same number of people working on the car, for anywhere near as long, with anywhere near the complications in project management and infrastructure.

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Kirkburn    172
You're not actually contending that designing or building a car is even remotely near as complicated as building an OS like Windows... right? There aren't anywhere close to the same number of people working on the car, for anywhere near as long, with anywhere near the complications in project management and infrastructure.

I really don't think they do understand it, or have any idea how large the workforce, time involved, money, co-ordination, management ... the list goes on, is for an OS.

A car does not take years to code.

A car does not have thousands people working on the design.

A car only has a few situations to be tested in.

A car does not need to deal with 'backwards compatability'.

A car does not need continual support from the manufacturer.

A car does not need continual daily and weekly updates and modifications to be fit for purpose.

A car does not cost billions to develop.

A car can use several stock components.

A car does not need to run 24/7.

A car does not require major changes every few years.

A car is NOTHING like an OS.

Going back to the point about beta testers - cars are tested in-house, OSes are tested in-house. However, the testing of a OS is much, much, much, much, much, much more complicated than that of a car. You can use a computer to model a car, you can run a few tests by crashing it, driving it around tracks, stressing it. That doesn't work for an OS. If you wanted to test a car like an OS, you would need to drive it on-road, off-road, in water, on the sun, whilst it's being bombarded by large stones, with a child at the wheel, missing half its components, upside down, with aliens attempting to drive it, being attacked by acid, attempting to take a previous car and turning it into a new one, and many more crazy ideas.

You get my point. Car =/= OS.

Edited by Kirkburn

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BajiRav    2,137
You're not actually contending that designing or building a car is even remotely near as complicated as building an OS like Windows... right? There aren't anywhere close to the same number of people working on the car, for anywhere near as long, with anywhere near the complications in project management and infrastructure.

I wouldn't know. First thing, I think they are not directly comprable. Car designs are mostly evolutionary but it is silly to discount them as "very easy".Whenever there are big turnarounds (like say Hydrogen or fuel cell powered car), I would hazard a guess that OS development becomes way too simple in comparison. ;-)

I think you are thinking just manufacturing of cars, I am talking designing from scratch. It's way too complicated than just selecting few parts and than putting them together.

But I will agree that I don't have slightest idea about complications involved in building as OS. :p

A car does not take years to code.

You will be surprised.

A car does not have thousands people working on the design.

Coding and designing is different.

A car only has a few situations to be tested in.

Probably true.

A car does not need to deal with 'backwards compatability'.

Not as simple as that. The steering & pedals on your car are perfect examples of this.

A car does not need continual support from the manufacturer.

Oh really ?

A car does not need continual daily and weekly updates and modifications to be fit for purpose.

Neither does an OS. Most OS updates are

1. fixes for faulty design. 2. Improvements/additions.

A car does not cost billions to develop.

Again design and develop (manufacturing for cars) are different. ;-)

A car can use several stock components.

Was vista build from scratch ? The answer is No.

A car does not need to run 24/7.

The reliability requirements are many magitudes higher than an OS. So don't even think about this.

A car does not require major changes every few years.

Neither does an OS.

A car is NOTHING like an OS.

Agreed.

Again, I am not discounting either OS or cars. I love them both. :p

Edited by dhan

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nevets    0
You're not actually contending that designing or building a car is even remotely near as complicated as building an OS like Windows... right? There aren't anywhere close to the same number of people working on the car, for anywhere near as long, with anywhere near the complications in project management and infrastructure.

Not to get in an argument about which is more complex, as both are very complicated systems... and require major effort and overseeing. But in any case, the people who work there should be pros, and should want to make the most quality product/codes they can. Just because it's very complicated doesn't give anyone an excuse to put out a product with flaws and then let the consumers find the bugs. I cannot believe if the aerospace industry thought that way... we will never trust flying again.

I feel VISTA is MS's main product to the general public, and there's seems to be some slacking off in the final touches. If Mercedes slacked off on the S class, there would surely be some heads rolling. It's easy to just buy another car, but what real choices do you have for OS? and NO, just because it dominates the market doesn't make it the best product. I hope most of the quirks found since the RC1 release will be fixed for the next service pack.

I JUST want to know how much their OWN time and resources does MS use to test their own product.... or is it just VISTA because it's for the regular consumer? I've used other MS products.... and they certainly are not perfect, but I can live with the flaws since I have choices for others programs if it gets bad.

I'm just like any average joe... don't have time to experiment with OS's... just want it to work right the first time. XP has been working well for me so far, and I don't plan to use VISTA for any important work any time soon until most of the quirks are patched.

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nevets    0
I really don't think they do understand it, or have any idea how large the workforce, time involved, money, co-ordination, management ... the list goes on, is for an OS.

A car does not take years to code.....

.....

A car does not require major changes every few years.

Have you ever worked in automotive design, research and development? where are you getting your info from anyway? If you talking about cars back in the 70's and 80's maybe.

Why don't you go over to an automotive thread and post what you said... and if they agree with you I'll bow down to you. :yes:

Besides, I only brought it up as a point about how a finalize product should be as finalized as possible. Wasn't comparing apples and oranges... just stating that all the fruit should be ripe before selling. ;)

peace

(how come sometimes it double posts and sometimes it just adds to my last post... I was thinking it would just add to my last post???)

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I am Reid    45
You're not actually contending that designing or building a car is even remotely near as complicated as building an OS like Windows... right? There aren't anywhere close to the same number of people working on the car, for anywhere near as long, with anywhere near the complications in project management and infrastructure.

I wouldnt go that far, they both are very complicated. When you OS crashes you just restart or reinstall. When a car crashes good chances you die. A mistake while designing a car is much bigger then an OS, so they have to work out every single detail, and possible problems it may have.

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phate    5

What gets me is that you cant change the default programs to Firefox or something like that (or you can but its so well hidden its near impossible)

And the start-up message on Photoshop that asks you to register... it goes away when you click 'no thanks' or whatever in XP, but in VISTA

NO I WANT TO KEEP ASKING YOU EVERY TIME LOLZ!!!!

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BajiRav    2,137
What gets me is that you cant change the default programs to Firefox or something like that (or you can but its so well hidden its near impossible)

And the start-up message on Photoshop that asks you to register... it goes away when you click 'no thanks' or whatever in XP, but in VISTA

NO I WANT TO KEEP ASKING YOU EVERY TIME LOLZ!!!!

Control Panel > Programs > Default Programs

Hooray I just discovered the lost File types dialog :D

Edit: Damn it ! Does somebody know anyway to change an icon associated with an extension ? :unsure: mp4 registered to WMP in my case.

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Lawliet    0
Edit: Damn it ! Does somebody know anyway to change an icon associated with an extension ? unsure.gif mp4 registered to WMP in my case.

Been looking for a way to do that for ages. Microsoft has decided to dumb down some UIs like the File Associations one and Disk Defragmentor.

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franzon    7
Microsoft has decided to dumb down some UIs like the File Associations one and Disk Defragmentor.

:no:

File associations has been improved.

Disk Defragmenter has been improved.

You should improve your knowledge about Vista

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IceDogg    3
:no:

File associations has been improved.

Disk Defragmenter has been improved.

You should improve your knowledge about Vista

You do realize those are just your opinions, right? I'm not arguing your points (for or against), but they are still just opinions.

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Lawliet    0
:no:

File associations has been improved.

Disk Defragmenter has been improved.

You should improve your knowledge about Vista

I meant the removal of some more "advanced" settings. I would prefer them to add, perhaps, an "advanced" button instead of removing UI tweaking totally. Registry changes aren't exactly a layman's piece of cake.

Yes I agree the UIs have been improved albeit being simplified. And thank you for your advice, that was uncalled for.

Edited by StrawHatLuffy

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franzon    7
I meant the removal of some more "advanced" settings. I would prefer them to add, perhaps, an "advanced" button instead of removing UI tweaking totally. Registry changes aren't exactly a layman's piece of cake.

:no:

right click on a file -> Open with... :rolleyes:

and so you can change a file association

and so you can add a new file association and you can also assign a new description for that new file type! (example: create a new file called test.tst, click on it, select: search for a program, choose a program and assign a new description for .tst i.e. "test file type")

and so you should improve your knowledge about Vista before complain about it!

Edited by franzon

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Kirkburn    172

Just to clarify my earlier point, I was not suggesting that designing and creating a car is as easy as riding a tricycle. However designing and building an OS is undeniably more complex a task than creating a car.

Just because it's very complicated doesn't give anyone an excuse to put out a product with flaws and then let the consumers find the bugs.

Perhaps in fantasy utopialand, yes, it's not an excuse. This is real life. There is no OS in the world that has no flaws, because it is impossible.

Parts of car have been tested and tested again, without major modifications between 'versions'. If you looked at a car from the 80s, it is not that hugely different from a modern car in how it generally works. Whereas OSes have to change in massive ways every coupld of years.

Essentially, it is a massive oversimplification to think that the two are comparable, just because they're so different.

(And on a side note, a steering wheel and pedals are not an example of backwards compatability)

Anyway, sorry for going off topic :)

I've not seen that file associations has been dumbed down, but I do miss the information from the defragging program.

Edited by Kirkburn

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BajiRav    2,137
:no:

right click on a file -> Open with... :rolleyes:

and so you can change a file association

and so you can add a new file association and you can also assign a new description for that new file type! (example: create a new file called test.tst, click on it, select: search for a program, choose a program and assign a new description for .tst i.e. "test file type")

and so you should improve your knowledge about Vista before complain about it!

we know that already. any chance of changing filetype icon with that ? :rolleyes:

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nevets    0
Perhaps in fantasy utopialand, yes, it's not an excuse. This is real life. There is no OS in the world that has no flaws, because it is impossible.

I do not expect perfection (have never been this disgrunted with other Windows versions), but I have never seen so much flaws and quirks in just a few days usage compare the win2k and xp. Functions that worked in XP and not work in Vista... I find that quite unacceptable. Such as being able to mistakenly delete a whole folder (mouse not focusing where it should) and pulldown menu inconsistencies , etc.

However designing and building an OS is undeniably more complex a task than creating a car.

Parts of car have been tested and tested again, without major modifications between 'versions'. If you looked at a car from the 80s, it is not that hugely different from a modern car in how it generally works.

Designing a modern and reliable car is extremely complex, only simplified by the fact of using proven parts (but take a look at some technologies so new there are no proven parts and are designed from scratch). (Hence Apple did the same by using the FreeBSD and improving on it). MS has chosen to use their own set of nuts and bolts and screwdrivers.. and that would make building and OS extremely complex as they need develop and test everything from scratch. If a car company did the same, you would have to buy every nut and bolt for repair from the car company brand (and can only imagine how much the car would cost). (The idea of proprietary). That is their (MS's) choice. But unfortunately has created an OS that fundamentally flawed in the point of security, and hasn't been able to redesign it from scratch since. I'll end up making a hugh reply, but I'll gladly open another thread to argue this point (besides... would be interesting to hear what software developers really consider when coding) I'm not a coder, and neither do I claim that coding is less complex in any sense.

If coders actually got together and created solid components/codes that can be reused, then building whole OS's can be in modular. Such as Linux. To be fair, car parts have over a hundred years in the making and quite a bit if versions. I'm sure given time OS's will eventually have a solid foundation so codes don't have to be rewritten over and over again. A modular OS?

I think the problems also lies in accountability. Not enough accountability.

Has anyone here coded for the Medical industry? Where people's lives depend on your software? What kind of excuse would you have for bugs there?

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mattrobs    1
we know that already. any chance of changing filetype icon with that ? :rolleyes:

I don't think you can anymore via the UI. It used to be attached to the (Control Panel > File Assoc.) dialog box, but not in Vista. Come on.

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Kirkburn    172
I think the problems also lies in accountability. Not enough accountability.

Has anyone here coded for the Medical industry? Where people's lives depend on your software? What kind of excuse would you have for bugs there?

There a similar problem with Air Traffic Control systems :(

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Lawliet    0
:no:

right click on a file -> Open with... :rolleyes:

and so you can change a file association

and so you can add a new file association and you can also assign a new description for that new file type! (example: create a new file called test.tst, click on it, select: search for a program, choose a program and assign a new description for .tst i.e. "test file type")

and so you should improve your knowledge about Vista before complain about it!

Let me make this clear: I KNOW about this. This was NOT what I meant.

Where are the options to change file icons? Where are the options to add more options to the file's context menu? YOU should be the one who need more knowledge of Vista.

Can you compare this:

post-135300-1172642012_thumb.jpg

with this obviously dumbed down interface? (No, there are no context menus available with the Vista dialog.)

post-135300-1172641979_thumb.png

Where are the options under the "advanced" settings with UI? Find them for me and I'll retract all my statements regarding dumbed down interfaces.

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franzon    7
Where are the options under the "advanced" settings with UI? Find them for me and I'll retract all my statements regarding dumbed down interfaces.

They have just removed the DDE options because DDE is obsolete:

"Please feel free to stop using DDE

DDE has been dead as a shell interface for over ten years:" http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/...26/1763683.aspx

The other options are avaible in other places:

* to change a file association and so also its icon, use the control panel or

right click on a file -> Open with... -> choose a program, save setting and so you've changed a file-type association (the icon will automatically change for that file type with the icon's program)

* to add a new file association (and also assign a new description for that new file type): click on an unassociated file type, select: search for a program, choose a program and assign a new file-type description

what else you needed?

Edited by franzon

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