WOW! am i impressed!

[threetonesun]

So...lemme get this straight. After all is said and done, the main reason for owning a PC is because it's cheaper and easier to upgrade? Or because there are "more and better games"? Hmm...what's this sitting next to me? Why...a dual-purpose XP/OS X copy of Warcraft 3! How'd that get here? Must be magic. Wait, more magic! John Carmack said that they are developing Doom 3 for Windows and Mac *simultaneously*. Horror of horrors! No porting! Guess what guys...any game worth playing will be out for both. You may have *more* games, but I'm not into Deerhunter Extreme 3D, so that's all good. Keep 'em. And need I elaborate on how sincerely cool it is to be able to run Photoshop 7, and be able to click over to my virtual terminals that are running BitchX and nmap? I don't think I need to. Or that hell, if I wanted to, I could scrap Aqua and install XFree86 and run Enlightenment, Gnome, WindowMaker, or any of the hundreds of other open source apps that are available. Earlier today, I was installing XP in Virtual PC, although it didn't stick around long, since I started tasting bile in my throat....

Can PC users install OS X in Virtual PC in XP? No? Oh well...

Have I ever ran XP? Um...yeah, as I mentioned in one of my earlier posts. I bought (on my own, with my own money, from my own job, not living with my parents) my first PC in mid '95. Since then, I've built and rebuilt close to three dozen systems, either for myself, my family members, co-workers, or for outright sale. I've owned 4 laptops, including the iBook I'm typing this on, as well as 3 different PDA's in the past year. I've used every Windows version since 3.1. I had NT before it was on the store shelves, same with XP (*wink wink*). 95 and 98 the day they came out. I'm also fluent with linux (6 different distros, fave being Slack, also the -first- distro I ever used), FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Solaris, QNX, BeOS...um...think that's it. Up until right around a month or so ago, I was solely a Wintel/x86 user. So yeah, I guess you could say I know what I'm talking about when I say this; this iBook is, without a shadow of a doubt, the best computer purchase I have ever made, and OS X is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the best OS I have -ever- used, bar none. The speed can be somewhat lacking, but that is made up for in countless other ways.

And up until a few months ago, I hated macs and mac users. Glad I decided to f*ck around with one for a few minutes.

:D

*yawn*

No, the reason to own a PC is because they're cheaper and easier to upgrade. Like those are bad reasons.

Yeah, so you get some games, but we can play whatever we want on a PC. I don't care if you like Deerhunter Extreme 3D or not, the fact that we could play it if we wanted to is part of the point of owning a PC. That fact that we can do most anything we want with a PC is part of the reason for owning it.

And we're all glad that you can buy your own computer and don't live with your parents, but financial independance isn't some marker by which one becomes a Mac user, plenty of little kids have them too (probably because that UI is just so cute...oh, and the great colors they come in too).

And BTW, I don't hate Mac users by any stretch, you can use whatever you want, it's fine with me, but saying Windows users are less intelligent or less well off, or losers living in their parents basement is just childish.

[bararum]

this is a mute point

Its moot, everyone here says mute, but its MOOT

thank you :)

[Gator]

I don't care if you like Deerhunter Extreme 3D or not, the fact that we could play it if we wanted to is part of the point of owning a PC.

Wow. :no:

[aristotle-dude]

I think it all boils down to a person's preference.  I, for one, will probably never own a wintel computer.  I just don't think they are worth the money.

That's another reason why I don't own a Mac. I love to build/reconfigure computers. Because Macs are proprietary, I can't build myself a Mac from scratch. With PCs, there are so many inexpensive parts to work with, it comes out as a better deal for me as well as being lighter on my wallet. I always wished Apple would let others manufacture parts.

You have a point when it comes to the Motherboard being proprietary but I have an eMac and even a PC with a similar form factor would be a proprietary design. :D. We use standard DIMMS, standard IDE Drives, standard, standard PCI/AGP, Firewire and USB. Some Mac Vid cards are cost more than PC counterparts but some of the PC versions can be flashed to work on Macs.

Don't forget though, the OS supports open standards such as Open GL and has a BSD Unix core making porting Unix apps easy. :)

I'm also a PC user with a P3. The funny things is my eMac has a GIG of ram but my PC would be only expandable to half a GIG (has 256 MB now).

Usually it does not make financial sense to upgrade an older PC rather than selling your old PC and getting a new one every couple of years.

If you get a kick out of upgrading/building PC's more power to you.

I've upgraded my PC with a Geforce 2MX 64MB, a DVD-ROM and a CD-RW and a WinTV Go TV Tuner during the past year or so. But I will probably give it to my Mom eventually and get newer cheap PC later.

PS. Apple does let others manufacture parts and accelerator cards are all manufactured by third parties. Apple does not make any expansion products.

[azazel-]

Yeah, so you get some games, but we can play whatever we want on a PC. I don't care if you like Deerhunter Extreme 3D or not, the fact that we could play it if we wanted to is part of the point of owning a PC.

As I stated earlier, anything worth playing will be out for both. The games I want to play on the computer, I can. You may want a Wintendo, but I have a GC and a PS2 that takes up the slack.

(probably because that UI is just so cute...oh, and the great colors they come in too).

Yes, and look around the forums here and see about a bazillion Windows kiddies tripping all over each other to make their XP look exactly like OS X. Says a lot for them, I guess.

Macs come in different colors? Guess I could consider white, clear acrylic, titanium, and silver colors, or finishes...but I guess you're talking about the iMac circa '99. Way to keep current with the times there, champ.

but saying Windows users are less intelligent or less well off, or losers living in their parents basement is just childish.

I'm not saying any of that. Although it does bother me hearing one person complaining about their parents in a typical "pity party" thread on here one second, then the next, asking which Geforce4 4600 card they should buy, I'm not slamming anyone. But, as usual, someone came into the MACINTOSH forum and wanted to discuss Macs, and the usual Wintel trolls come loping in to bitch and moan. I dunno, did I hit a nerve there with what I was saying? Get a little too close to home? If so, oh well. No one forced you to interpret that how you did, nor forced you to enter the Mac forum. Don't let the door hit ya....

[threetonesun]

As I stated earlier, anything worth playing will be out for both. The games I want to play on the computer, I can. You may want a Wintendo, but I have a GC and a PS2 that takes up the slack.

Yes, and look around the forums here and see about a bazillion Windows kiddies tripping all over each other to make their XP look exactly like OS X. Says a lot for them, I guess.

Macs come in different colors? Guess I could consider white, clear acrylic, titanium, and silver colors, or finishes...but I guess you're talking about the iMac circa '99. Way to keep current with the times there, champ.

but saying Windows users are less intelligent or less well off, or losers living in their parents basement is just childish.

I'm not saying any of that. Although it does bother me hearing one person complaining about their parents in a typical "pity party" thread on here one second, then the next, asking which Geforce4 4600 card they should buy, I'm not slamming anyone. But, as usual, someone came into the MACINTOSH forum and wanted to discuss Macs, and the usual Wintel trolls come loping in to bitch and moan. I dunno, did I hit a nerve there with what I was saying? Get a little too close to home? If so, oh well. No one forced you to interpret that how you did, nor forced you to enter the Mac forum. Don't let the door hit ya....

Right, anything worth playing according to people who own Macs. I got it. And yeah, did you add the Gamecube and PS 2 into the price of your Mac? Don't get me wrong, I have a Gamecube too. But many people can't afford both and would rather have one centralized system.

And go find out what most people who own Macs have for a computer. I can guarantee it's going to be in a color that's named after a fruit. As far as kids making their XP box look like a Mac, it's once again the ever so small percentage of Windows users on this board who want to do it. Please tell me how many people you actually know with a Mac looking PC.

Lol, and no, you didn't hit a nerve, someone else who started comparing Macs to Porsches did. But your justifications for how great your Ibook is and how excessively crappy your Dell was needed some foundation. God forbid a kid come in here after complaining about his parents and get the idea to have them buy him a new I Book because his Dell sucks.

Like I said, Macs are cool in their own right, and there stores are nifty too, but they're not the be all end all of computers.

[Gator]

Lol, and no, you didn't hit a nerve, someone else who started comparing Macs to Porsches did.

Yea, I was clearly not comparing Macs to Porsche. I could have used a mansion, private jet, etc... What I was doing was illustrating the reason I or many others possibly would spend the money on a Mac. To put it simply I was adding to WK's post.

[sparkleytone]

And go find out what most people who own Macs have for a computer. I can guarantee it's going to be in a color that's named after a fruit. As far as kids making their XP box look like a Mac, it's once again the ever so small percentage of Windows users on this board who want to do it. Please tell me how many people you actually know with a Mac looking PC.

yeah my iBook is white. what fruit is that? i've never eaten a white before.

don't have to look too far for your apple wannabe windows kids either. just drop on by one of the monthly screenshot threads and you'll see what azazel is talking about.

[akuma1]

And go find out what most people who own Macs have for a computer. I can guarantee it's going to be in a color that's named after a fruit.

Pretty much any mac that has come out in the past 2 years has been either white or silver.

Apple stopped making fruit colored cases about the same time that everyone else in the world jumped on the translucent, colored plastic bandwagon.

[the evn show]

/me looks at powerbook, then at friends white ibook, and other friends iMac and "greyish-white" powermac...

white. titanium. grey. What kind of fruit are you eating threetonesun?

I have never actually seen a "fruity" colored mac in anyones home/office: the "snow" or "graphite" colored systems are fairly common.

[aco Veteran]

Please people. No more picking out people, calling them bitches, trolls, kiddies, pieces of fruit, whatever!

I don't care how much you love your PC/Mac, lay off provoking and intimidating members.

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

And go find out what most people who own Macs have for a computer. I can guarantee it's going to be in a color that's named after a fruit. As far as kids making their XP box look like a Mac, it's once again the ever so small percentage of Windows users on this board who want to do it. Please tell me how many people you actually know with a Mac looking PC.

Like I said, Macs are cool in their own right, and there stores are nifty too, but they're not the be all end all of computers.

My cubes must have come in "silver pear" then.

www.emaculation.com

so i guess that the small percentage of neowin members on this board have gone and made an entire website about making xp look like a mac then eh?

and I guess this other small percentage of neowin members somehow managed to hijack stardock and force them to release objectdock and objectbar and osx skins as well.

[frod]

hmm are people still saying pcs are cheaper to purcahse than macs? did all you who are doing so just totally ignore my post where it was quite clear that when comparing a nearly identical dell to a powerbook that the powerbook was cheaper? <hmm>

well i guess you could be right on the desktop front. <shrugs> anyways, keep making your "macs are more expensive than pcs" statement without any proof and i'll continue to look at my post with very substantial proof saying the opposite.

umm oh yeah, resorting to color of cases is pretty funny. you must have missed the whole compaq time period where they offered cases with clear fruit colored plastic panels huh? or maybe when hp switched to pretty little "grapeish" colored cases that also had clear plastic components. that whole fruit colored situation was a stylish thing for the whole industry for a short while. fortunately enough the industry got over it, but apparently you did not ;).

oh and once again, i don't even own a mac ;). why am i defending them? well because a lot of your pc fools are coming into the mac forums just trying to start crap and make arguments without supporting them. the only reason i can believe as to why you are doing that is that you feel you have to compensate for the lack of something by supporting your "mighty, powerful, and 100% built by me" pc. i guess maybe you feel that people who buy something just so they can use it without fiddling with it and that they think looks cool is wrong? ehh whatever. continue to love your "superiorly powerful" pc and argue with everyone who tries to make a statement about why it's not so great, and i'm pretty sure all these mac users will continue to use their macs contently while you do so, heh.

hmm, i also wonder how many of you spent $300 on a case from www.3dcool.com or whatever just because it looked cool.

[threetonesun]

My point about the colors was that considerably fewer of you would own Macs today if they hadn't released the old iMacs in all those fancy colors. The whole marketing trend wasn't some random spur of the moment thing that took hold of the industry, it was inspired by Apple marketing. And if you've never seen a Mac in blueberry blue or any of those other colors, then you must have been hiding on a mountain top for the last few years.

3 years ago they started selling computers that looked better than Windows machines, and people started buying them. Most of the reasons you have for liking Macs now, didn't apply back then (anyone remember the software selction and compability problems from back then?). It helped Mac then, and they still use the image of being the "cooler" looking computer now.

And as far as emulation the Mac OS in Windows...look, I could find one web page for a lot of things. I could find people who do a lot of things to their computer. But they certainly aren't the majority, or even a recognizable percentage. I think a better example would have been noting how many people try to make their Macs look like XP. That I'll give you.

[Island Roots]

Why the hell do you care what other people use? Do you have nothing better do to? Seriously, get a life if you feel you must debate over why someone else uses a Mac/PC.

You're critizing what cereal someone else eats in the morning. Where are we after all this pointless bashing? Same place we were before we started.

[bararum]

man i just went into an apple store that opened recently here in Michigan and it was just droooooooool. One thing u have to say about them is, they know what they're doing when it comes to their stores.

[bararum]

Well I could spill a couple of pages worth of text in this post explaining why I've switched my Apple, but:

1. I don't have the time.

2. Nobody would read the whole thing :D

So I'll just give you the summary.

A Windows based computer cannot touch the way a UNIX based computer feels. I know this is a tired subject, but for you PC users that truely want to get an idea of what I'm talking about, install a Linux flavor on one of your partitions and play with it for a few hours. It will be a great experience for you, but it will also give you an idea of what I mean by Windows and UNIX having a different "feel." I wish I could make it more tangeble for you, but I cannot.

i totally know what u mean, there's just something about unix, that just feels...right.

[mikejd1]

since i started this thread, i should join back in..i have a solution..

But a mac and a PC. :) the total only comes to like 6g's depending on preference. not bad. :)

Mike

[linux2]

1.) OS X. I can run all my neccessary Office applications, and still pull up a virtual unix terminal when I want. Installing Office v. X was as simple as dragging *1* folder to my Applications folder. If I want to uninstall Office v. X, I drag its foldr to the trash. It's that simple. As for your digital camera statement, I have a digital camera, HP Photosmart. XP would take about 20-30 seconds looking for the drivers every damn time I plugged it in, then another 10 or so seconds deciding what it wanted to ask me to use to download the pics. Fun. I plugged same camera into ibook running OS X. Dialog -instantly- popped up asking if I wanted to import those images with iPhoto. Since I was just messing around, I said no and closed the dialog. My camera had been mounted as a virtual drive onto my desktop, which I could then browse as if it were a hard drive and I could copy and move images as I pleased. No "looking for drivers" crap. It just worked. Same with my mouse. Two different optical mice. With XP, it was a 50/50 shot as to if XP would install the hardware correctly, or if it would require a reboot. With OS X, I plugged the mouse in, and sat there...expecting some sort of "new hardware found" type crap. Nothing. Until I wiggled the mouse, and it worked. No stupid dialogs, it just worked. I could go on an on about how much I love OS X, but that would be boring to you, no doubt.

2.) the ibook. I have an ibook with an 800mhz G3 processor, 640 megs of ram, built in ethernet, firewire, dual USB, 56k modem, internal wireless ethernet, DVD/CDRW combo drive, in a package that weighs in at under 5 lbs. Grand total, around $1450. The ibook must be felt to be fully appreciated. It truely destroyes all *true* Wintel portables (and I'm not counting that behemoth portable George Forman Grill that Alienware has convinced everyone they want). I have a desktop replacement that fits in essentially the same space I could carry a large binder.

I really could go on, but honestly, you have to physically mess with an Apple to fully appreciate one. Don't believe the hype. Up until about 4 months ago, I *hated* Apples. *HATED*. Didn't really have a reason why, other than that everyone that used an Apple seemed like a odd freak that loved everything about their computer, and I guess I didn't undestand that, because I was never really very happy with mine. No matter how much money I spent on a video card, or how much ram I added, or how fast a processor I got...I was always looking for something new in the vain attempt to actually *like* using my system. Now, I'm one of those odd freaks, I guess, because I think my ibook is about one of the coolest things I've bought, ever.

As far as games go, I've never been a big PC gamer, other than RPGs, and all the decent ones are out for the Mac. I have a GC and a PS2, so my gaming needs are filled in other ways, but that could be an issue for others.

What it all boils down to, you need to go and check one out for yourself. Most of the Mac haters have probably never touched an OS X Mac, yet flame relentlessly. Maybe it's jealousy, maybe it's ignorance. Maybe it's for attention, who knows.

Yeah. . .what Azazel said :yes:

Since I just bought the same iBook 2 days ago.

[azazel-]

My point about the colors was that considerably fewer of you would own Macs today if they hadn't released the old iMacs in all those fancy colors. The whole marketing trend wasn't some random spur of the moment thing that took hold of the industry, it was inspired by Apple marketing. And if you've never seen a Mac in blueberry blue or any of those other colors, then you must have been hiding on a mountain top for the last few years.

3 years ago they started selling computers that looked better than Windows machines, and people started buying them. Most of the reasons you have for liking Macs now, didn't apply back then (anyone remember the software selction and compability problems from back then?). It helped Mac then, and they still use the image of being the "cooler" looking computer now.

And as far as emulation the Mac OS in Windows...look, I could find one web page for a lot of things. I could find people who do a lot of things to their computer. But they certainly aren't the majority, or even a recognizable percentage. I think a better example would have been noting how many people try to make their Macs look like XP. That I'll give you.

So, we're debating about macs from 3-4 years ago. Sorry, I could care less. Macs looked gay back then, which is partially one of the reasons I didn't want one -back then-. I also recall all the Mac-wannabe cases, the Gateway all-in-one wanna-be iMac, and now the new wanna-be flatpanel iMac, which by most reviewers, feels and looks cheap. PC companies copy their visual elements off of Macs. You can't argue this. What they can't duplicate is the *feel* of an Apple. I was working on a friend's wintel laptop today, and I couldn't get past how cheap and creeky it felt. The keyboard felt cheap, the whole thing flexed whenever you move it, and it just felt, well, cheap. PCs in general look cheap and feel cheap. Sorta like comparing a Viper to a Porsche. Both are fast, the Viper brutally so. But one just looks big and brutish and well...gaudy. Yeah, it's personal preference, and I hate to use the car analogy, but it's about the best I can come up with, with the speed factor thrown in.

I won't even get into the neon case lights, the plexiglass windows, the LED case fans, gaudy colors, 4 billion fans, stickers. You wanna talk about fruity colors? How about a PC that would look fine sitting on the curb in "Fast and the Furious 2".

;)

[frod]

hmm, those colors are what's responsible for my looking into getting a powerbook now? not really.

actually the following are the reason why i'm going to get a powerbook instead of the ibm/dell i was planning on getting:

1. price for what you get. i've been shopping around for some time now, and contrary to popular belief, the powerbook is cheaper than pcs having the equivalent parts (well everything but the processor is better on the powerbook when compared to a lappy of the same price from the windows world).

2. portability. i'm not going to buy a laptop that weighs 9-10lbs when i can buy a powerbook that weighs 5 and, like i said just above, has everything equal or better but the processor.

3. battery life. 5 hours on the powerbook compared to 2.5 on most lappies of equivalent performance in the pc world.

4. looks. yes looks played a small part in my decision but certainly was never fueled by the tremendously ugly looking imacs of yore, hehe. plus, somehow i feel better knowing that my laptop's case is going to be made out of titanium rather than aluminum or whatever other metal cases are usually made out of.