bbc [Official] Doctor Who Thread

[Unobscured Vision]

I enjoyed the episode as well. My thoughts ...

 

Spoiler

- The Doctor having both the Sonic Sunglasses and the Sonic Screwdriver is actually pretty clever. As we saw, he can use the Sunglasses as sort of a "stealth" thing when he needs to make it look like he isn't up to anything, or the capabilities of the Sunglasses have been changed so that they are "Scanners" rather than a full-on Device like the Screwdriver is. Whatever the case, I like it, so the Sunglasses can stay imo.

- River not recognizing him for most of the episode was very good storytelling and a way to really get into some nuance about how she is when The Doctor isn't the focus. Well, mostly. We got to see "The Professor" doing what she does best ... raising hell. There's money to be made and she wants it. Awesome.

- We've heard that voice actor from the Cybernetic Suit before somewhere ... can't place him right now though. He was in a few other episodes doing voice parts also ... hmm ...

 

[DarkyDan]

I forgot there was an episode, and accidentally saw the middle of the episode on free to air TV.

 

It looked dumb.. the sort of dumb that made me not watch a full [2005] Dr Who season until Capaldi started.  I guess the half dozen Christmas episodes of seen have all been dumb though.. so I shouldn't complain.

 

I think what I shall try next is watch the first season of every doctor.  The first two Dr's are pretty much impossible to watch a full season of (and serials from season 1 I've watched were quite tedious!).  I watched season 7 a couple of years ago and enjoyed Pertwee and his first companion, but didn't like the fact that they replaced Liz with an airhead so stopped watching.

 

I will check out the first Tom Baker season, because 4th and 5th Dr's are the ones I remember from childhood.

[MikeChipshop Member]

"I've never watched it because its dunb, however I'm going to comment any way"

 

Okaaaay theeeeen...

[DConnell Member]

On 12/27/2015 at 2:40 AM, BinaryData said:

I have every episode downloaded, I just haven't watched it.

 

I guess I need too before I bash it. What are the BEST seasons? I need something to look forward too!

The few remaining complete Troughton stories are from his final season and apart from the Krotons, excellent. Tomb of the Cybermen isn't from that season, but it's one of the best stories ever.

 

Pertwee's entire run is excellent (apart from the two Peladon stories - BORING!), especially the stories with Jo Grant and the Master. That's 5 seasons, though. I'd go for his second season as the high point.

 

The Key to Time saga in Tom Baker's era is a full season, and quite good. Basically anything during Douglas Adams' tenure as story editor is worth a look.

 

It's actually hard for me to come up with newWho seasons that compare. NewWho doesn't have the low points Classic does (The Web Planet, the Peladon stories for example) but it also doesn't reach the level of awesomeness that Classic did when at its best.

 

I haven't watched the Christmas special yet - after the last 3 episodes of the season, this was the first year I wasn't looking forward to the special. Worst episodes of the new series, and possibly the worst ever. Moffat needs to go, pronto!

[FloatingFatMan]

 

I strongly recommend you do NOT watch any of the final classic series.  Sylvester McCoy ruined a once great show, and whilst he did get SOME good stories, most of them were an absolute horror to watch, and not because they were scary...

 

Proof? Here's one of the villains...

 

 

 

[DConnell Member]

7 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

 

I strongly recommend you do NOT watch any of the final classic series.  Sylvester McCoy ruined a once great show, and whilst he did get SOME good stories, most of them were an absolute horror to watch, and not because they were scary...

 

Proof? Here's one of the villains...

 

 

 

Yeah, the Candyman was not one of the better designs, but the story itself was decent. Syl himself had some great moments in it. You don't watch Classic Who for the production values!  Paradise Towers OTOH there's no excusing, but I gloss over Sylvester's first season - any story featuring Mel Bush is best ignored. She's almost Rose/Peri level annoying.

 

Syl is one of my favorite Doctors Who. Remembrance of the Daleks and Battlefield are both excellent. You'll find stinkers in any Doctor's era, but you shouldn't dismiss the entire run because of a bad story or two. Besides, if anyone was to blame for the bad stories at the end, it was John Nathan-turner, not McCoy. McCoy brought an awesome, manipulative, almost sinister at times edge to the character. He just wasn't enough to save the show since the Controller of the BBC at the time was determined to cancel it.

 

If any should be skipped, it's Davison and Smith! Both too young for the role, and Peter was just plain dull. Any time the companions are more interesting than Doctor Who, it's bad for the show, and that was the case for both Peter and Matt.

[FloatingFatMan]

I never liked McCoy, and the only reason they tried to inject some mystery back into his version of the Doctor was because of the Cartmel Masterplan.  Sadly, that seems to have been abandoned with the restarting of the series, making pretty much everything McCoy did, pointless.

 

Peter Davidson was a rather weak Doctor, yes... Though I kinda liked that he showed the Doctor's vulnerable side. Matt Smith I never really liked. He was easily the most arrogant of all the doctor's and his portrayal really got up my nose at times.

 

But what I really hate the most in the current series, what really really REALLY grinds my gears, is turning The Master into Missy. That was done purely for the reasons of pandering to the PC brigade and it stinks to high heaven. Never before in Who has it ever been bandied around that Timelords can switch sex, and adding it in serves no purpose other than to say "Hey look, we have a lady villain at last!".

 

When Missy was first seen, I really and truthfully hoped that she would turn out to be the Rani. Now there was a villain that could test the Doctor's mettle...  The Master? A petulant schoolboy compared to her.  All the Master/Missy is these days is a psychotic nutter who'll kill anyone they feel like just for the lolz. There's no purpose there anymore...  Delgado & Ainsley would be ashamed of what has become of their role...

 

 

 

[Unobscured Vision]

7 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

 

I strongly recommend you do NOT watch any of the final classic series.  Sylvester McCoy ruined a once great show, and whilst he did get SOME good stories, most of them were an absolute horror to watch, and not because they were scary...

 

Proof? Here's one of the villains...

 

 

 

It wasn't McCoy's fault that the writing was on its' last peg leg. The whole show needed a change of direction by then, and in my view it was the culmination of a lot of bad decisions. McCoy did what he could, but he wasn't the right Doctor for the time as it was. Can't fault the Actor, though. He's simply a hired gun, but he's a funny chap and really wasn't allowed to express much of that humor on the show. I see him as potentially being another Troughton in terms of "Comedic Relief".

 

Ahh, what time can do to hone ones' craft. Davidson too. "Time Crash" showed us what he could really do when allowed to play The Doctor his way.  

[DConnell Member]

39 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

I never liked McCoy, and the only reason they tried to inject some mystery back into his version of the Doctor was because of the Cartmel Masterplan.  Sadly, that seems to have been abandoned with the restarting of the series, making pretty much everything McCoy did, pointless.

 

Peter Davidson was a rather weak Doctor, yes... Though I kinda liked that he showed the Doctor's vulnerable side. Matt Smith I never really liked. He was easily the most arrogant of all the doctor's and his portrayal really got up my nose at times.

 

But what I really hate the most in the current series, what really really REALLY grinds my gears, is turning The Master into Missy. That was done purely for the reasons of pandering to the PC brigade and it stinks to high heaven. Never before in Who has it ever been bandied around that Timelords can switch sex, and adding it in serves no purpose other than to say "Hey look, we have a lady villain at last!".

 

When Missy was first seen, I really and truthfully hoped that she would turn out to be the Rani. Now there was a villain that could test the Doctor's mettle...  The Master? A petulant schoolboy compared to her.  All the Master/Missy is these days is a psychotic nutter who'll kill anyone they feel like just for the lolz. There's no purpose there anymore...  Delgado & Ainsley would be ashamed of what has become of their role...

 

 

 

I'm quite happy the Masterplan was flushed, TBH. But that doesn't make McCoy's portrayal pointless - he still showed the devious, master manipulator side of Doctor Who better than any other actor. And still had his human, likable moments. And he and Ace are one of the best teams in the history of the series!

 

I agree totally about "Missy". While Michelle Gomez is doing well with the rather poor material she's being given, I agree entirely that she should be playing the Rani rather than the Master. Although since newWho hasn't gotten the Master right yet, I doubt they'd do any better with the Rani.  In the better moments, Michelle comes off as a female version of Delgado, but you're right, all too often she's just randomly psychotic and murderous for no reason. The Master never killed simply for fun - it was always in service of a plan. Michelle is an excellent actress doing well with poor writing, in a role she shouldn't be playing (if that makes any sense.)

 

Missy is just Moffat's attempt to prime us for a female Doctor Who, which IMO would be the death of the show. It would change the dynamic too much, with little gain other than pandering to the PC crowd. The companions are mostly women, and show how an ordinary person can become extraordinary when needed. The fact that the companions, the Doctor's heroes on whom he depends, are mostly women makes a very strong statement IMO. How would making Doctor Who female add to that, when there are already Time Ladies? Heck, Romana is canonically acknowledged to be even smarter than the Doctor! Meanwhile we'd lose one of the few prominent male heroes who invariably tries for the nonviolent solution first, who fights with his wits rather than fists and guns as the first option.

 

All this leads back to what I've been saying for the last couple years - Moffat needs to go. If he hasn't already made the show jump the shark, he isn't far off from it.

[Unobscured Vision]

1 hour ago, DConnell said:

I'm quite happy the Masterplan was flushed, TBH. But that doesn't make McCoy's portrayal pointless - he still showed the devious, master manipulator side of Doctor Who better than any other actor. And still had his human, likable moments. And he and Ace are one of the best teams in the history of the series!

 

I agree totally about "Missy". While Michelle Gomez is doing well with the rather poor material she's being given, I agree entirely that she should be playing the Rani rather than the Master. Although since newWho hasn't gotten the Master right yet, I doubt they'd do any better with the Rani.  In the better moments, Michelle comes off as a female version of Delgado, but you're right, all too often she's just randomly psychotic and murderous for no reason. The Master never killed simply for fun - it was always in service of a plan. Michelle is an excellent actress doing well with poor writing, in a role she shouldn't be playing (if that makes any sense.)

 

Missy is just Moffat's attempt to prime us for a female Doctor Who, which IMO would be the death of the show. It would change the dynamic too much, with little gain other than pandering to the PC crowd. The companions are mostly women, and show how an ordinary person can become extraordinary when needed. The fact that the companions, the Doctor's heroes on whom he depends, are mostly women makes a very strong statement IMO. How would making Doctor Who female add to that, when there are already Time Ladies? Heck, Romana is canonically acknowledged to be even smarter than the Doctor! Meanwhile we'd lose one of the few prominent male heroes who invariably tries for the nonviolent solution first, who fights with his wits rather than fists and guns as the first option.

 

All this leads back to what I've been saying for the last couple years - Moffat needs to go. If he hasn't already made the show jump the shark, he isn't far off from it.

That's what I've been saying too. They're priming us for the next Doctor to be female. The Corsair, the General (whom we just witnessed his Regeneration in the Season Finale episode into a female), the Rani, the Master, females. I think that's what Moffat is doing. And it's not necessarily to appease the PC crowd as much as it is that we've had twelve Doctors over 52 years. It's just time for a female Doctor. Should make for some interesting dynamics if/when it happens.

[LOC Veteran]

Tilda Swinton. Just putting that out there. Never going to happen, but one can dream right?

[DConnell Member]

On 12/31/2015 at 0:34 PM, Unobscured Vision said:

That's what I've been saying too. They're priming us for the next Doctor to be female. The Corsair, the General (whom we just witnessed his Regeneration in the Season Finale episode into a female), the Rani, the Master, females. I think that's what Moffat is doing. And it's not necessarily to appease the PC crowd as much as it is that we've had twelve Doctors over 52 years. It's just time for a female Doctor. Should make for some interesting dynamics if/when it happens.

But why is it time to happen? I hear that frequently, but there's never any elaboration. Nobody who promotes this change ever seems to give a solid answer as to why it would be a good thing. I can - and have - stated why I don't want a woman in the role. Why do you think a woman should be Doctor Who? What exactly would that change bring to the series that wouldn't be accomplished just as well by giving Romana or Iris Wildthyme her own series?

 

I honestly don't think there's anything to gained with a female Doctor Who, and it could very easily end up changing the dynamic to the point of breaking the show. The show has traditionally been the (male) Doctor and his companion(s), and if there's just one almost always a girl. They've never even had just a male companion without a girl one for more than 2-3 episodes (Jamie McCrimmon in Evil of the Daleks in the Troughton era FWIW), but Moffat is willing to gamble on changing the formula that much?

[Unobscured Vision]

2 hours ago, DConnell said:

But why is it time to happen? I hear that frequently, but there's never any elaboration. Nobody who promotes this change ever seems to give a solid answer as to why it would be a good thing. I can - and have - stated why I don't want a woman in the role. Why do you think a woman should be Doctor Who? What exactly would that change bring to the series that wouldn't be accomplished just as well by giving Romana or Iris Wildthyme her own series?

 

I honestly don't think there's anything to gained with a female Doctor Who, and it could very easily end up changing the dynamic to the point of breaking the show. The show has traditionally been the (male) Doctor and his companion(s), and if there's just one almost always a girl. They've never even had just a male companion without a girl one for more than 2-3 episodes (Jamie McCrimmon in Evil of the Daleks in the Troughton era FWIW), but Moffat is willing to gamble on changing the formula that much?

That's a fair challenge -- explain why the next Doctor should be female?  

 

I'll attempt to provide arguments in favor for the notion.

 

a) The Doctor should not necessarily be tied to a single (masculine) gender. Many species and cultures are Matriarchal. These examples are not foreign to Western thinking. Who is to say that The Doctor is at any advantage or disadvantage as a female?

 

b) Variety is the spice of life. Yin to the Yang brings balance. Maybe there are some significant lessons that the Multiverse wants The Doctor to learn, and the only way to do that and to learn those lessons is to be female. Would make for an over-arching storyline to that Doctor's series ... give it some actual purpose?

 

c) Give the writer(s) something new to play around with. Let's face facts -- the Writing Team on the show actually need a change of direction. This ties in with b). The writing was .. okay .. this Series but some of the Episodes that made it to air should not have.

 

d) The formula of the show needs a shake-up. Yes, it really, really does. And not the "Sonic Sunglasses" kind of shake-up, or the "He could have left at any time" kind either. It needs the kind of shake-up that sees Moffat tossed out front of the BBC face down on the sidewalk with his desk thrown AT him from the ROOFTOP -- so that others may learn from the example. Peter Jackson is being brought in to direct at least one Episode, so let's hope that goes well and he decides to do more in the future.

 

e) It's actually been (now) 53 years -- it really IS time for a female Doctor.

[margrave]

I say if they're going to do it, go all out. 

 

Gwendoline Christie all the way baby!

[DConnell Member]

13 hours ago, Unobscured Vision said:

That's a fair challenge -- explain why the next Doctor should be female?  

 

I'll attempt to provide arguments in favor for the notion.

 

a) The Doctor should not necessarily be tied to a single (masculine) gender. Many species and cultures are Matriarchal. These examples are not foreign to Western thinking. Who is to say that The Doctor is at any advantage or disadvantage as a female?

 

b) Variety is the spice of life. Yin to the Yang brings balance. Maybe there are some significant lessons that the Multiverse wants The Doctor to learn, and the only way to do that and to learn those lessons is to be female. Would make for an over-arching storyline to that Doctor's series ... give it some actual purpose?

 

c) Give the writer(s) something new to play around with. Let's face facts -- the Writing Team on the show actually need a change of direction. This ties in with b). The writing was .. okay .. this Series but some of the Episodes that made it to air should not have.

 

d) The formula of the show needs a shake-up. Yes, it really, really does. And not the "Sonic Sunglasses" kind of shake-up, or the "He could have left at any time" kind either. It needs the kind of shake-up that sees Moffat tossed out front of the BBC face down on the sidewalk with his desk thrown AT him from the ROOFTOP -- so that others may learn from the example. Peter Jackson is being brought in to direct at least one Episode, so let's hope that goes well and he decides to do more in the future.

 

e) It's actually been (now) 53 years -- it really IS time for a female Doctor.

Some good points - I don't necessarily agree, but you do present some good points. Although a couple of them need further elaboration.

 

a) Why? The character is traditionally male. You say he should not necessarily be tied to a single gender - I ask why should the possibility of change be made inevitable.

 

b) This would be the only acceptable reason in my book, but Moffat has demonstrated on numerous occasions that he isn't capable of handling a story arc well. A major change like this needs to be done extremely well. If it were to happen at all, it shouldn't be done by Moffat. He's great for the occasional novel episode, but he should never have been put in charge! If it can't be done excellently, it shouldn't be done.

 

c) There's already infinite possibilities. A change of gender for the lead wouldn't really affect the plotlines, just the character interactions. Again, not Moffat's strong point. A change of direction may be needed, but I disagree that this particular one is the answer.  A change in writing staff is.

 

d) The formula is already infinitely flexible, and worked for 5 decades in multiple media. The only shake-up that's needed is the aforementioned writing staff change. If the stories are stale/bad, it's the writers at fault, and they'd do just as poorly with a woman in the lead role. Look at the last few years of the classic series. Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy were excellent actors saddled with a less-than stellar producer and writing. Look at the two Masters in the current series. The writers aren't doing any better writing for Michelle Gomez than they did for John Simms, so a gender change for the main character wouldn't improve anything either. A gender swap won't be a fix for the problems in the writing.

 

e) It really, really isn't.

 

A big part of why I'm against the idea is not only the fact that I like the traditional setup with the male Doctor Who, not only that I feel the companions are strong enough characters that making Doctor Who female for feminist reasons is redundant, not only that I feel keeping one of the most established non-violent male heroes is important, but also that this change would require exceptional handling on every front, otherwise it would be the death of the show. Phenomenal casting - Maggie Smith would be my first choice  for a female lead - the first Doctor Who was a bada$$ grampa, let's make the first female one a bada$$ granny. Phenomenal writing would also be essential, and that has been the weak link for the last few years. Ironically, Moffat, the chief promoter of the female Doctor Who idea, is also the biggest reason it shouldn't be done in the immediate future.

 

I'm willing to have my mind changed about a female Doctor Who, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Steven Moffat isn't skilled enough a writer or showrunner to do it.

 

I still maintain that what could be achieved with a female Doctor Who would be better done with a spin-off starring Katy Manning as Iris Wildthyme. This would also give us multiple Whoverse series on the air, something we've lacked since Liz Sladen's death forced the cancellation of SJS Adventures and Torchwood was run into the ground.

[DConnell Member]

2 hours ago, margrave said:

I say if they're going to do it, go all out. 

 

Gwendoline Christie all the way baby!

I'd choose Maggie Smith, Joanna Lumley or Katy Manning.

[LOC Veteran]

I still say Tilda Swinton would make a great Doctor.

 

Also for another point for a female Doctor, they've shown female Time Lords before (and this season in fact, regeneration wise) transitioning between male and female genders, so why not the Doctor? Is he some special gender locked entity?

[DConnell Member]

22 minutes ago, LOC said:

I still say Tilda Swinton would make a great Doctor.

 

Also for another point for a female Doctor, they've shown female Time Lords before (and this season in fact, regeneration wise) transitioning between male and female genders, so why not the Doctor? Is he some special gender locked entity?

Read my post 2 entries up. IMO it isn't that a gender change isn't possible; it just isn't a good idea. Especially with the current writing team.

 

That said, I may have to add Tilda to my list of female candidates that might work.

[Dick Montage]

Why female?

Rebuttal: Why should gender change necessarily be on the table?

 

See both sides of this.  For me, it certainly should be on the table.  The doctor's entire personality has changed, as has the doctor's physical appearance.  As such, it seems trivial that the gender should be a fixed idea.  One of the things I take from the doctor's thinking is that very little is ever fixed (until plot device dictates).  It allows the doctor's perspective on the universe to not be tethered to such things as gender.

[DConnell Member]

2 minutes ago, Nik L said:

Why female?

Rebuttal: Why should gender change necessarily be on the table?

 

See both sides of this.  For me, it certainly should be on the table.  The doctor's entire personality has changed, as has the doctor's physical appearance.  As such, it seems trivial that the gender should be a fixed idea.  One of the things I take from the doctor's thinking is that very little is ever fixed (until plot device dictates).  It allows the doctor's perspective on the universe to not be tethered to such things as gender.

Gender change should not be on the table until we have a showrunner skilled enough to make it work well. We need someone of Douglas Adams' caliber to pull it off, not Steven Moffat's.

 

Even though I don't like the concept of "Missy" I like Michelle Gomez's performance, despite the execrable writing she's stuck with. Her performance reminds me of Roger Delgado's, but is too often hobbled by the writing. For Doctor Who such a switch would require both exceptional acting and writing. The last couple seasons have demonstrated we're not going to get the latter with the current team.

[Dick Montage]

2 minutes ago, DConnell said:

Gender change should not be on the table until we have a showrunner skilled enough to make it work well.

You know what?  With that single sentence, you've changed my mind

[Unobscured Vision]

I agree with all of the above points.  

[Draconian Guppy]

After catching up. Moffats long lasting archs have finally closed (impossible girl, which lasted almost 3 years...) and river song, which lasted  6?!  IMO moffat is going back to basics or going completely insane for next season

[LOC Veteran]

Well they can't go to insane, you still have Capaldi around as the Doctor. I feel if they were going to go off the rails completely, a new Doctor would have to be brought in for that kind of thing. Back to basics, sure that would work. Have the Doctor run around with either no companion for awhile, or slowly start liking some new guy or gal in that role.

[Unobscured Vision]

I wonder ... /thinkingcap

 

Spoiler

I know they've done this before, during David Tennant's run, but this was just one Episode and it was explained away as a "Fugue", but could the next seasons' "epic story arc / Moffat's completely gone all thirteens now" thing be a crossover with a possible future Doctor? 

 

Hear me out on this one. To make the "you blighters had better make the next Doctor a female" crowd happy, as well as give The Doctor something interesting to do along with giving the writers something interesting to explore, as well as not needing to write Capaldi out (because I'm enjoying his work, finally), as well as not necessarily giving him a Companion to run around with just yet ... why not have him do a Crossover of "Epic Proportions" with a possible Thirteen? And make this Doctor female. Not as an arch-nemesis (we have Missy/The Master for that), but as a "Multiverse Crash" scenario.

 

Barring that, if Moffat wants to please the fans, give us what we want -- guest appearances. 

 

Sylvester McCoy -- I want to see him get an episode or two of "New Who" under his belt. He's a lovely chap who has more than earned the right for a guest appearance as the Seventh Doctor again. What would have happened had the events of the 1990's movie never transpired? Gotta love Multiverse Theory, because that's our out -- and the TARDIS can travel between Universes, with enormous difficulty.

 

Tom Baker -- Who wouldn't want to see him do a bit more, if he's up for it?

 

David Tennant -- The banter between him and Capaldi would be legendary. 

 

Matt Smith -- Erm ... not sure how I'd feel about seeing him and Capaldi together. I don't think it would go well, sorry.

 

John Hurt -- I want to see him again. It's John Hurt .. he could act the part of limp broccoli and make it good. Enough said.  

 

Paul McGann -- I want more canon from him. Come on, he got one movie and one little web episode. He needs much more. He's such a good actor, and deserves more.

 

Chris Eccleston -- Too bad he's said he wouldn't do anything more. I'd like to see his Doctor and Capaldi's argue.  

 

I'm open to suggestion?