The plot thickens - 40GB PS3 found on Play.com

[Nicholas-c Veteran]

we are forgetting one thing tho right... the PS2 is still champion :p

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

we are forgetting one thing tho right... the PS2 is still champion :p

While that's "true", it isn't a next gen device :p

But a lot of my points stem from the PS2/1. As it shows how many people worldwide bought into the PS brand for one reason or another :yes:

That's the group of people Sony will be trying to get to make the leap to the PS3. Obviously they will be trying to get new consumers into the fanbase, but the above people will be "loyal" to Sony to some extent - They did buy one of their products.

[Boz]

A) It doesn't matter if its desperate on Sony's behalf - It will please gamers. All we have heard is constant complaint after complaint about console price, and now it's finally coming down to something reasonable.

B) If you do your research you will see MANY interesting titles on the way this year/next. Lots of the PS1/2 era titles are making their returns, and even new IP's from the same developers.

C) As for recouping costs. Like MS, Sony has other areas which help fund the gaming section. Don't tell me MS is making large profits on the 360 after all the hardware failures.

D) You actually think Sony think their PS3 "sucks ass"

Jeez Boz, that's where I stop... omg too much :laugh:

Uhhh... like the PS3 library isn't going to grow.

Heres a list of all the exclusives so far - http://ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=86124

It's a fan list so it may not be totally up to date/100% correct.

It's missing multiplatform titles as well obviously.

The difference with the Xbox price cuts and the PS3 price cuts is that the Playstation brand is far more popular in comparison to how popular the Xbox brand was back then.

Sony has millions and millions of PS users worldwide. Now that the PS3 is coming down to prices similar to those shown by PS1/2 I think a lot of these owners will be a lot more tempted to once again update to the latest PS.

Of course you need games to attract buyers, and they're definitely coming. A lot of the big name franchises the PS brand is known for and has displayed on the PS1/2 are coming to the PS3.

So how can you actually think the PS3 is actually that doomed, I'll never know...

1. No, I was dramatically paraphrasing, but yes, they know they not in a good position and there's little chance they can come on top

2. You know, who makes games? Developers right? When they constantly stumble on obsticles in development that actually cost them more money not to mention licensing fees and devlopment tools they have to pay to Sony, they are more and more being hesitant to develop on PS3. Just look what's happening, if you can't see it, then you are looking quite narrowly. MOST developers develop for Xbox 360 FIRST then port to PS3. This is why you see mediocre versions of games on PS3. They are just simply not investing more resources in PS3 development. And you can't really blame them. If this trend continues, games will lack. Again, based on Xbox.com and Playstation.com Xbox 360 has MORE titles coming this and year. That's a simple fact and no fanboy wishlist and preannouncements will change that.

3. You are absolutely correct, that list is completely incorrect and mostly wishful thinking. It even contains God of War 3, a game that hasn't even start development yet and it's still uncertain whether it will ever. Similar status with most of hte games I've heard about from that list.

4. Sure, that's what they were hoping for, but unfortunately what we are experiencing now is quite different. When you have same games on both consoles, one platform costs less, has kick as multiplayer networking and games actually do look better, what makes you think that a consumer will go and buy a more expensive brand just because it's Playstation. Xbox is well know too. It's not like nobody knows what it is.

5. Yep, I know, because simple economics has shown over and over again that the situation they are in, is UNSAVEABLE. They were just too LATE and the product is still not working right in many areas after 12 or 13 firmware updates.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

we are forgetting one thing tho right... the PS2 is still champion :p

Not in this house hold it aint :p

@Audio, what exactly do you expect the HD DVD manufacturers to do :s Actually increase their prices to attract more customers? Retailers are boasting Blu Ray to meet their targets, it's not something the Blu Ray camp actually planned to do. Just like that thread the other day with some guy in game buying a 360, but the sales guy was pushing the PS3. They don't think it's a better console, they just want more ?.

[Nicholas-c Veteran]

While that's "true", it isn't a next gen device :p

But a lot of my points stem from the PS2/1. As it shows how many people worldwide bought into the PS brand for one reason or another :yes:

That's the group of people Sony will be trying to get to make the leap to the PS3. Obviously they will be trying to get new consumers into the fanbase, but the above people will be "loyal" to Sony to some extent - They did buy one of their products.

i think their is ALOT of people out their with their PS2 waiting to make the jump over to PS3 land

[Boz]

Well thats something out of our control. The HD-DVD camp should be doing something about that - It's their loss in the end. Blu Ray is pummeling HD-DVD for marketing. At least here in the UK it is - Thats something I've seen with my own eyes.

Yeah ok, we know the list is fan-made :p

It was just to give Boz an idea of whats on the way.

Oh I know very much what's on the way. I have PS3 remember and I actually do buy games for it, when they eventually come out. The future is not that bright as that list might make it seem. Officially it's been announced ONLY 46 games INCLUDING exclusives for this and next year.

Second, let me just put that comment about Blu-Ray winning again.

Winning according to who? and winning what? 1% of the home entertainment market?

Do you realize that right now, software sales went from 4:1 to 1.5:1 past month. How is this winning?

Do you know that 99% of Blu-Ray players are actually PS3s. What happens if PS3 fails.

I think you are buying too much into that marketing you are talking about.

HD DVD has been pretty silent and making strides. Wait until TL51 gb gets approved and it WILL be rest assured. When new TL twin discs come out, when $150 HD DVD players saturate the market.

Standalone market penetration has ALWAYS been much slower then game consoles. It's nature of things. It's essentially a lower number and market too. Come 2008, you will see how many standalone HD DVD players will be out there.

If you think otherwise you are young, inexperienced and pretty naive.

[Nicholas-c Veteran]

ok chill on the DVD format war thing until tomorrow i will do some small interviews with people around college etc

(this is kinda based on my college work actually :p "media styles and buying habits" we were told to research )

[AlphaPrime]

Ok, I think I understand what Boz is saying:

A lower price won't help the PS3

A lower price will help HD-DVD

Cool.

[Nicholas-c Veteran]

Ok, I think I understand what Boz is saying:

A lower price won't help the PS3

A lower price will help HD-DVD

Cool.

why not ? i know a quite large amount of people who say "its simply too expensive"

[Nightz]

why not ?

because boz says so.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Oh I know very much what's on the way. I have PS3 remember and I actually do buy games for it, when they eventually come out. The future is not that bright as that list might make it seem. Officially it's been announced ONLY 46 games INCLUDING exclusives for this and next year.

Second, let me just put that comment about Blu-Ray winning again.

Winning according to who? and winning what? 1% of the home entertainment market?

Do you realize that right now, software sales went from 4:1 to 1.5:1 past month. How is this winning?

Do you know that 99% of Blu-Ray players are actually PS3s. What happens if PS3 fails.

I think you are buying too much into that marketing you are talking about.

HD DVD has been pretty silent and making strides. Wait until TL51 gb gets approved and it WILL be rest assured. When new TL twin discs come out, when $150 HD DVD players saturate the market.

Standalone market penetration has ALWAYS been much slower then game consoles. It's nature of things. It's essentially a lower number and market too. Come 2008, you will see how many standalone HD DVD players will be out there.

If you think otherwise you are young, inexperienced and pretty naive.

The list/upcoming titles can be bright/dim depending on your taste in games. One man may jerk off at the list, another may puke.

I expect much of the same as previous generations. A lot of RPG's basically haha. Well thats what I want anyway (Y)

Winning according to who?

Uhhh all the sales reports online. Do you have secret figures we don't know about Boz?

It's winning as Blu Ray has sold more OVERALL. One month may be close - But it will take MANY months for OVERALL sales to level out/HD-DVD take the lead.

I don't know about 99% of Blu Ray players being the PS3.. but yes, probably a good %. As for failing? We haven't seen any reports of mass PS3 failure so far. Hell I don't think I've read about any individual failures on this board so far either. Sony have left that to MS so far bud :whistle:

I'm not buying into any marketing as such. I've witnessed and seen marketing all around me. As for buy into it? I own 1 Blu Ray movie and it came with my PS3 when I bought it.

The only thing I buy into are the facts of where things currently stand as they can't be disputed.

[Nicholas-c Veteran]

i dont actually own any blu-ray movies :p the last movie i bought was pirates of Caribbean 2 and i will stick with DVD's for a while since i usually take movies to mates house or something (plus ?10 or so is a nice cheap birthday/xmas present)

[Boz]

i think their is ALOT of people out their with their PS2 waiting to make the jump over to PS3 land

Very funny way of thinking to be frank. I mean I'm not Frank, I'm Boz but you know what I mean :laugh:

Seriously ok..if a consumer bought a PS2 it doesn't mean they will buy PS3? Why? Because it's Sony? I mean I don't understand your way of reasoning. Sure they had great fun with it and do have some attachement, I understand, but that's because it had a bunch of games and they bought it dirt cheap.

Now, they want a next gen console. Guess what they'll be looking at again. That's right, a console that gives them great game selection and is pretty cheap. Pretty much the same things that PS1/PS2 gave them. It takes only one look to notice that PS3 is simply NOT PS2 type of console and with prices even at $400 and no games, I see people choosing Xbox 360 over PS3 this time around.

As we can see, this is pretty much what's going on.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Very funny way of thinking to be frank. I mean I'm not Frank, I'm Boz but you know what I mean :laugh:

Seriously ok..if a consumer bought a PS2 it doesn't mean they will buy PS3? Why? Because it's Sony? I mean I don't understand your way of reasoning. Sure they had great fun with it and do have some attachement, I understand, but that's because it had a bunch of games and they bought it dirt cheap.

Now, they want a next gen console. Guess what they'll be looking at again. That's right, a console that gives them great game selection and is pretty cheap. Pretty much the same things that PS1/PS2 gave them. It takes only one look to notice that PS3 is simply NOT PS2 type of console and with prices even at $400 and no games, I see people choosing Xbox 360 over PS3 this time around.

As we can see, this is pretty much the case.

The reason we think like that is simple.

PS1 sold for EXAMPLES sake 20million. The PS2 then sold 30million.

It's just following the trend. Obviously a very large % of the PS1 owners went and got a PS2 as they liked what they got first time around. Obviously the PS2 would have introduced many new buyers, but as I said you can bet a large group of the PS1 owners migrated as well.

If someone likes what they got game wise on the PS1/2 then they will expect that trend to follow on the PS3.

The PS3 is not a PS2 yet as it hasn't been out as long, hasn't got as many games yet and isn't as cheap as the PS2 after 11 months into its career. Although the ?299 price point is getting a bit closer.

There is nothing stopping the PS3 exceeding PS2 quality if it gets the right support from developers and Sony.

The only people who are naive are those bellowing its "doomed" every chance they can get. Once the PS3 gets its GT5, FF, MGS, GOW, KH, ect then we will see a lot of the people who bought a PS1/PS2 to play those games come over. Each generation new titles are born as well that start new crazes.

God of War wasn't on the PS1. It was born on the PS2. What stops a developer from brining out a new GOW QUALITY title for the PS3? Not GOW clone, just a title of the same quality.

Edited October 5, 2007 by Audioboxer

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

^ it doesn't always follow the trend like that dude. You only need to look at the SNES and then compare it to the N64 and GC to see that.

[sn00pie]

Very funny way of thinking to be frank. I mean I'm not Frank, I'm Boz but you know what I mean :laugh:

Seriously ok..if a consumer bought a PS2 it doesn't mean they will buy PS3? Why? Because it's Sony? I mean I don't understand your way of reasoning. Sure they had great fun with it and do have some attachement, I understand, but that's because it had a bunch of games and they bought it dirt cheap.

Now, they want a next gen console. Guess what they'll be looking at again. That's right, a console that gives them great game selection and is pretty cheap. Pretty much the same things that PS1/PS2 gave them. It takes only one look to notice that PS3 is simply NOT PS2 type of console and with prices even at $400 and no games, I see people choosing Xbox 360 over PS3 this time around.

As we can see, this is pretty much what's going on.

I agree with everything you say Boz, your points are ALWAYS valid in my mind.

I think that atleast 3/4 of PS2 owners consider the PS2 OVER the 360 when buying either console, it's just 90% of those PS2 owners have not made the jump to next-gen yet. They will when the price becomes affordable. Almost everyone I PERSONALLY know will buy a PS3 but it's the price that is keeping them away.

NOTE: My numbers are NOT some official mumbo jumbo lol

My PS3 purchase was a good one, I don't have alot of regrets. I'm just waiting for games to come out lol

[Boz]

The reason we think like that is simple.

PS1 sold for EXAMPLES sake 20million. The PS2 then sold 30million.

It's just following the trend. Obviously a very large % of the PS1 owners went and got a PS2 as they liked what they got first time around. Obviously the PS2 would have introduced many new buyers, but as I said you can bet a large group of the PS1 owners migrated as well.

If someone likes what they got game wise on the PS1/2 then they will expect that trend to follow on the PS3.

The PS3 is not a PS2 yet as it hasn't been out as long, hasn't got as many games yet and isn't as cheap as the PS2 after 11 months into its career. Although the ?299 price point is getting a bit closer.

There is nothing stopping the PS3 exceeding PS2 quality if it gets the right support from developers and Sony.

I agree, but this way reasoning you have is wrong.

In cases of PS1 and PS2, Sony really didn't have any competition. PS2 was shaken for a little bit by XBox and this was definitely the cause why they had to lower the prices even further on PS2s. But come 3rd gen of consoles, Xbox 360 is the one holding the market, not the other way around. They have all the developer support, super great exclusives that are RACKING millions and millions of dollars and are just a huge boom and the 360 is overall cheaper with more choices for all layers of consumers. And guess what, the quality of the games and graphics are even better.

When a PS2 consumers sees that most titles that were PS2 exclusive that were successful are indeed on 360 (quite possibly a 360 exclusive now at 360 for some) and their friend and their brother's friend and their aunt and sister's boyfriend have XBox 360 and XBL account with achievements, instead of PS3. What do you think they will buy?

I mean $400 is completely useless move if you don't have other things in this equation. Just look at other consoles that have been doomed with same reasons. Expensive, lack of games etc. They all failed.

The reason that PS3 came out late and is still at it's infancy is no excuse really. Who is to be blamed for that? If you have a plane ticket to fly somewhere, and you are late and the plane takes off, who are you blaming? The air-carrier company or yourself?

When plane, takes off, it's too late. You can try to catch it on foot by driving and other alternate ways, but in general, you will never catch up to it.

[AlphaPrime]

Price is what's holding a lot of people back, I think there's no denying that. It's whats holding me back from getting one. There are a lot of games I want to play on it though, having no good games is an opinion, not fact.

As for the casual PS2 gamer? I think they'll move to Wii before they buy a 360 or PS3.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

^ it doesn't always follow the trend like that dude. You only need to look at the SNES and then compare it to the N64 and GC to see that.

I know it doesn't.

But its safe to say with the lineup we know is coming, the big hitters (PS1/2 hardware sellers) are clearly coming back for another round.

That's why I brought the whole trend idea up.

http://uk.ps2.ign.com/index/reviews.html?c...sort.order=desc

Look at the top rated titles on the PS2

On the PS3 we are getting the MGS, GT, FF, GTA, RE5, DMC, R&C, Tekken, Tony Hawks, Pro Evo, Wipeout, Silent Hill, ect installments this generation.

Now I know everyone will be like "SOME ARE MULTIPLATFORM THOUGH!!1111"

But to be honest that doesn't change much. If someone has bought the PS brand all they care is that they are getting to see the faces of the games they loved on the PS1/2 on the PS3.

Just because DMC has gone multiplatform doesn't mean FF&MGS nut bob will go I GOTTA GET A 360 now! I'm not disputing that some buyers may change to the 360 if DMC was primarily their game of the last generation. With the prices of the 360&PS3 getting closer though, this idea of jumping ship from the PS brand as some previous exclusives have gone multiplatform gets smaller.

The PS3 will offer much of the same as the PS2 and more. Just the same as the PS2 offered much the same as the PS1 and more.

Lets not forget that this generation has seen many more people picking up more than 1 console I think. Myself and lots of my friends have multiple platforms, where in the past I only had a PS1/PS2... I didn't even own a handheld. The 10m 360 buyers/11m Wii buyers or w/e it is aren't immune to buying a PS3 as well - You know there aren't that many close minded people/fanboys left in the world. People want to be "gamers" more often nowadays as each console offers a different, enjoyable experience.

* man I edit my posts far too much. it's late... I make more mistakes after 12am :p

Edited October 5, 2007 by Audioboxer

[AlphaPrime]

On the PS3 we are getting the MGS, GT, FF, GTA, RE5, DMC, R&C, Tekken, Tony Hawks, Pro Evo, Wipeout, Silent Hill, ect installments this generation.

SOME ARE MULTIPLATFORM THOUGH!!1111

[Nicholas-c Veteran]

I agree, but this way reasoning you have is wrong.

In cases of PS1 and PS2, Sony really didn't have any competition. PS2 was shaken for a little bit by XBox and this was definitely the cause why they had to lower the prices even further on PS2s. But come 3rd gen of consoles, Xbox 360 is the one holding the market, not the other way around. They have all the developer support, super great exclusives that are RACKING millions and millions of dollars and are just a huge boom and the 360 is overall cheaper with more choices for all layers of consumers.

... continued above...

ok, put your self in the shoes of someone who is going to buy the PS3 or 360 in 1 - 2 years time, you don't really care too much about exclusives as you just want a console, you hear the 360 keeps breaking down (which probs wont be true in 1-2 years but lets just say incase its not ironed out) and the PS3 having none too date. Which would you go for ?

in 1 - 2 years i see both consoles being same price

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

SOME ARE MULTIPLATFORM THOUGH!!1111

:trout:

Edited October 5, 2007 by Audioboxer

[AlphaPrime]

Hmm, where are all those people who complained that the 60GB at $499 was not a price drop and that we would be left only with a $599 80GB by now. Heh.

[Boz]

ok, put your self in the shoes of someone who is going to buy the PS3 or 360 in 1 - 2 years time, you don't really care too much about exclusives as you just want a console, you hear the 360 keeps breaking down (which probs wont be true in 1-2 years but lets just say incase its not ironed out) and the PS3 having none too date. Which would you go for ?

in 1 - 2 years i see both consoles being same price

Okay, so you tell me then..what are PS3 owners, like I am for example, suppose to do within those 2 years?

Do you see how wrong it is to have a console out where a consumer has to wait 2 years to take real advantage off. It begs the question why buy in the first place now when you can buy it cheaper 2 years from now when the games actually come out? Do you see my point?

Again, 77 titles on PS3 that are all either half-assed conversions of XBox 360 titles or basically just slapped together titles with ver few exclusives against 385 titles with plethora of great looking games for every taste, doesn't real say content to me.

Where do you think 2 years from now Xbox 360 will be? Do you think that everyone is just waiting for Sony to catch up?

Xbox 360 break down problems have been already addressed, and to be honest, the whole thing didn't really prevent consumers from buying Xbox 360s as their numbers have DOUBLED and more. This just TELLs you how PEOPLE think. What do you think that everyone who had PS2 will get PS3?

Let me give you an example, I hang out at my Gamestop often (cute girls) and I talk to them, most people WORKING there too are gamers. They ALL had PS2. Do you know what system they have now? You guessed it, Xbox 360. Would they like to have PS3.. sure, but this is not the point..I would like to have EVERYTHING in life just out of curiousity, but I don't. Why, because I don't really don't need it.

Bottom line, when consumer needs to make a choice, for around $300 if they need to pick between Xbox 360 and PS3 they'll pick Xbox 360 if they don't have money to have both. It's a simple reality and as long as it's like that, PS3 will lose.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Okay, so you tell me then..what are PS3 owners, like I am for example, suppose to do within those 2 years?

Do you see how wrong it is to have a console out where a consumer has to wait 2 years to take real advantage off. It begs the question why buy in the first place now when you can buy it cheaper 2 years from now when the games actually come out? Do you see my point?

Again, 77 titles on PS3 that are all either half-assed conversions of XBox 360 titles or basically just slapped together titles with ver few exclusives against 385 titles with plethora of great looking games for every taste, doesn't real say content to me.

Where do you think 2 years from now Xbox 360 will be? Do you think that everyone is just waiting for Sony to catch up?

Xbox 360 break down problems have been already addressed, and to be honest, the whole thing didn't really prevent consumers from buying Xbox 360s as their numbers have DOUBLED and more. This just TELLs you how PEOPLE think. What do you think that everyone who had PS2 will get PS3?

Let me give you an example, I hang out at my Gamestop often (cute girls) and I talk to them, most people WORKING there too are gamers. They ALL had PS2. Do you know what system they have now? You guessed it, Xbox 360. Would they like to have PS3.. sure, but this is not the point..I would like to have EVERYTHING in life just out of curiousity, but I don't. Why, because I don't really don't need it.

Bottom line, when consumer needs to make a choice, for around $300 if they need to pick between Xbox 360 and PS3 they'll pick Xbox 360 if they don't have money to have both. It's a simple reality.

The only problem I ever see with certain parts of your opinions Boz are you present them like facts. An opinion should always be an opinion. A fact, a fact. You can't make up figures/numbers/information and present it as factual.

Bottom line, when consumer needs to make a choice, for around $300 if they need to pick between Xbox 360 and PS3 they'll pick Xbox 360 if they don't have money to have both. It's a simple reality.

Statements like that show what I mean. It is not a "simple reality". You have to realise every "gamer" is an individual who buys for their needs. Only daft people buy what others tell them to. It's your money, and your "enjoyment" at the end of the day. Buy what suits you best.

I agree the PS3 was introduced too early, but we won't be waiting 2 years for good titles. Mark my words on that. Hell we are gonna see some great titles this/next month, let alone in 2 years.

Where are you getting 385 360 games? Metacritic says 260 - http://www.metacritic.com/games/xbox360/scores/

81 PS3 games as well - http://www.metacritic.com/games/ps3/scores/

I don't think the 360 will wait for the PS3 to catch up, of course not. The 360 will continue to pump out games. It's just can the 360 fight off the competition when it heats up. Argubaly the 360 is in its limelight just now. The PS3 has still to reach it's limelight.

You can see what Halo is doing to the competition just now... What will happen when Sony unleashes some of its behemoths? Cause the way things are going us poor gamers are going to end up seeing multiple big titles hit within a short period of time.

Uncharted/Haze/R&C/LBP Beta/GT5 Prologue ect hitting this year.

LBP/MGS/GTA/Probably UT3 with the way things are going/GT5/Maybe KZ2 ect hit within the 1st/2nd Q of 2008.

What will the 360 have to counter some of these titles? Cause this is where the fun starts. Up until now the 360 hasn't seen much competition game wise from the PS3. The 360 has had a very easy battle against the PS3 so far.

It will be seeing some competition soon though, you can't argue that ;)

I'm not trying to say the 360 ISN'T coming out with a good selection of lethal games as well this/next year... All im trying to put across is that there hasn't been much if any competition really between the games so far. The more mature 360 lineup has smoked the early PS3 lineup. I think this is why some of you like to speculate that it will remain this way for the rest of the PS3's life and therefore the console will fail - What you have to respect is that games will pickup, and we'll start to see less duffers.

Edited October 5, 2007 by Audioboxer