Official: New 40GB PS3 at

[Sheppard]

To be fair you dont know about 1 or 2 years down the line, there is no reason to think Sony will leave europe with just the 40gb cut down PS3. They might be waiting for the 60gb to sell out before they release a new package.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

To be fair you dont know about 1 or 2 years down the line, there is no reason to think Sony will leave europe with just the 40gb cut down PS3. They might be waiting for the 60gb to sell out before they release a new package.

I'm thinking the 80GB might come across the sea after our 60's are gone.

Fair assumption I think?

[Sheppard]

I dont see why not, Sony will deny and say anything, just like the price cut wasnt gonna happen and that there was no 40gb PS3 coming, maybe they are saying that once the 60gb sells out there will only be the 40gb so people will buy the 40gb instead of waiting for another model.

[Noveed]

I'm thinking the 80GB might come across the sea after our 60's are gone.

Fair assumption I think?

i doubt it even though its a fair assumption, its not just sony its MS aswell. The UK and Europe allways seems to get humped. Sony launched their console late in europe, Europe never got an 80GB from start and only has 1 SKU for PS3, will have 2 when 40GB comes out, i dont see sony releasing an 80GB, once 60GB phases out i can see 120GB version coming out after about 6-12 months

[Tech Star]

Guys they can add Software BC through firmware updates (if it is not in there right now) if we complain. Can't they?

[Sheppard]

Hmm...........

Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. announced the details of the reduced backwards compatibility of the PlayStation 3 game console to be sold in PAL regions. Apparently, the company will offer a different version of the console with lower production costs due to a removed chip, which combines graphics processor and microprocessor used in the PlayStation 2, for those countries.

“The Emotion Engine [and Graphics Synthesizer chip] has been removed and that function has been replaced with software,” said Nick Sharples, a spokesman for Sony Computer Entertainment Europe in London. That has a “slightly detrimental effect” on compatibility, he added in an interview with Digit Online web-site.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/di...0226073502.html

If thats true then theres no reason why the 40Gb wouldnt have backwards compatibility other than Sony being their typical selves?

What possible cost saving could Sony have by removing something thats entirely software based anyway?

The only other reason i can think of is so they can charge for the "update" at some point down the line.

[Tech Star]

I knew it would have BC! So, this means that the chip is just removed.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Let us not forget even if they have software BC, they have a lot of titles which suck using it. At least it will be there though which is a plus

[Sheppard]

No, the article is from February about the 60Gb PS3 and the removal of all PS2 hardware from the PS3.

Someone in another thread posted a picture of a PS3 motherboard without EE or GS(Here), if the above article is true then the 40Gb PS3 could potentially SUPPORT bc, but Sony wont enable it for whatever reason.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

oh well in that case, still a (N) from me :p

[+Fulcrum Subscriber¹]

This is a smart move by Sony, because they dropped the price and certainly not everyone cares about BC (though I happen to). So now people who have been waiting for the price drop to play some of the current line-up can possibly afford it.

While MSFT messed up by offering 2 completely different setups for the Xbox, with and without the Hard Drive. They really dropped the ball there IMO.

[spenser.d]

While MSFT messed up by offering 2 completely different setups for the Xbox, with and without the Hard Drive. They really dropped the ball there IMO.

Yet after 10 months, Sony hasn't even shifted 2 million PS3's (check the Neowin Gamers page for that news story). I think MS shifted over 5 million 360's in 10 months. Apparently people liked the choices.

-Spenser

[Guest]

This is a smart move by Sony, because they dropped the price and certainly not everyone cares about BC (though I happen to). So now people who have been waiting for the price drop to play some of the current line-up can possibly afford it.

While MSFT messed up by offering 2 completely different setups for the Xbox, with and without the Hard Drive. They really dropped the ball there IMO.

Yea, Buy a HDD and its a premium system, with backwards compatibility.

Choice is good...

[Sheppard]

This is a smart move by Sony, because they dropped the price and certainly not everyone cares about BC (though I happen to). So now people who have been waiting for the price drop to play some of the current line-up can possibly afford it.

While MSFT messed up by offering 2 completely different setups for the Xbox, with and without the Hard Drive. They really dropped the ball there IMO.

Its not a smart move by sony, they lose no money for cutting the entirely software driven backwards compatibility out of the 40Gb.

[Huleboeren]

Its not a smart move by sony, they lose no money for cutting the entirely software driven backwards compatibility out of the 40Gb.

I thought it wasnt entirely software emulation? - it still used the Graphics Synthesizer chip thingy? :huh:

[Ironman273]

Hmm...........

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/di...0226073502.html

If thats true then theres no reason why the 40Gb wouldnt have backwards compatibility other than Sony being their typical selves?

I wonder then why they put Graphics Synthesizer chip in parenthesis. Did they assume it was also excluded and therefore through they would put it in for clarity? The latest release from Sony even says they are no longer including BC.

[Sheppard]

I thought it wasnt entirely software emulation? - it still used the Graphics Synthesizer chip thingy? :huh:

Read up what i said about the news article and the link to the post where the guy shows the comparison between NTSC and PAL motherboards, the PAL 60Gb Motherboard has no EE or GS at all, its all software.

[AlphaPrime]

I wonder then why they put Graphics Synthesizer chip in parenthesis. Did they assume it was also excluded and therefore through they would put it in for clarity? The latest release from Sony even says they are no longer including BC.

Yes, yes, yes. Correct. Please people, read past what you see, click on sources, get to the original quotes. Think for yourself. If you go to the actual source of that quote, you see that GS is never even mentioned, only EE was said to be removed. That was the writer of Xbit Labs adding that bit in himself on the assumption of the GPU being removed too. But he's wrong. For PAL/80GB models, the EE was removed from the combined chip, leaving the smaller GS on it's own. As you can see from the pictures, it's actually still there, but they've taken out the EE and integrated the VRAM that was above it into the chip area. It's in a different package to house the VRAM as well, that is why it looks different.

The reason why there is no PS2 backwards compatibility on the 40GB model is that it lacks any hardware at all from the PS2. They haven't been able to emulate the GS yet, who knows if they'll end up doing it. They didn't just decide not to include software emulation for the sake of it, it's because until now, GS hadn't needed to be emulated. It's a lot harder to emulate than the EE, so there's a lot more work involved if they want to get PS2 BC running on the 40GB. I've gone through this a hundred times but if you're still confused:

20GB(NTSC)/60GB(NTSC) - EE+GS. Full hardware BC.

60GB(PAL)/80GB(NTSC) - GS only. EE removed and emulated in software.

40GB - GS removed. No hardware BC

PS1 BC is still in the 40GB because that is done entirely through software, always has. PS2 BC has either been fully hardware, or a hardware/software hybrid. Never fully software. I'll just add a couple of quotes:

Sony confirms the GS remains in PAL 60GB models.

The original PS3 used the Emotion Engine/Graphics Synthesiser to emulate PS2 titles. With the latest European specification we have removed the Emotion Engine, retaining the graphics chip.

Sony Europe confirms the 40GB lacks any PS2 hardware, and the removal of the GS that was in their previous model.

The 40GB model no longer contains any elements of the PS2 chip set which powered backwards compatibility in previous models, and is therefore only compatible with PS one titles.

[Glassed Silver]

eBay for me then...

Glassed Silver:mac

[gunnerhkjp]

I'm curious if this model is going to be offered outside Europe?

[Sheppard]

Yes, yes, yes. Correct. Please people, read past what you see, click on sources, get to the original quotes. Think for yourself. If you go to the actual source of that quote, you see that GS is never even mentioned, only EE was said to be removed. That was the writer of Xbit Labs adding that bit in himself on the assumption of the GPU being removed too. But he's wrong. For PAL/80GB models, the EE was removed from the combined chip, leaving the smaller GS on it's own. As you can see from the pictures, it's actually still there, but they've taken out the EE and integrated the VRAM that was above it into the chip area. It's in a different package to house the VRAM as well, that is why it looks different.

The reason why there is no PS2 backwards compatibility on the 40GB model is that it lacks any hardware at all from the PS2. They haven't been able to emulate the GS yet, who knows if they'll end up doing it. They didn't just decide not to include software emulation for the sake of it, it's because until now, GS hadn't needed to be emulated. It's a lot harder to emulate than the EE, so there's a lot more work involved if they want to get PS2 BC running on the 40GB. I've gone through this a hundred times but if you're still confused:

20GB(NTSC)/60GB(NTSC) - EE+GS. Full hardware BC.

60GB(PAL)/80GB(NTSC) - GS only. EE removed and emulated in software.

40GB - GS removed. No hardware BC

PS1 BC is still in the 40GB because that is done entirely through software, always has. PS2 BC has either been fully hardware, or a hardware/software hybrid. Never fully software. I'll just add a couple of quotes:

Sony confirms the GS remains in PAL 60GB models.

Sony Europe confirms the 40GB lacks any PS2 hardware, and the removal of the GS that was in their previous model.

Then why does this NTSC PS3:

Have both.

Whereas this 60Gb PAL PS3:

Have neither EE or GS yet still has backwards compatibility.

[ReAnimation]

Whereas this 60Gb PAL PS3:

Have neither EE or GS yet still has backwards compatibility.

The chip on the left hand side of the photo of the PAL 60Gb PS3 is the GS.

http://www.beyond3d.com/content/news/151

[AlphaPrime]

The chip on the left hand side of the photo of the PAL 60Gb PS3 is the GS.

http://www.beyond3d.com/content/news/151

Thank you. Sheppard did you read my post fully, I already said the separated GS looks different to the EE+GS combined chip. That is the tweaked PS2 graphics chip which replaces the combined chip in that same area on the motherboard. What else did you think it was, that chip was never on the original NTSC motherboard. Understand now?

20GB(NTSC)/60GB(NTSC) - EE+GS. Full hardware BC.

60GB(PAL)/80GB(NTSC) - GS only. EE removed and emulated in software.

40GB - GS removed. No hardware BC.

They didn't remove the software for no reason. They'll have to emulate the GS as well to get BC to work on the 40GB. EU60GB/80GB emulates the EE only.

[AlphaPrime]

And for further proof that the GS was still in the PAL 60GB, here's a diagram showing the change from the NTSC motherboard to the PAL one:

Taken from here (Japanese) which further explains the transition.

Thanks to Joystiq for the link, whom had to update their article after they were corrected that GS was still in.

And just for fun, another Sony quote confirming this (again): Our thinking involves being able to bring the latest hardware specification of the PS3 to Europe, although that does mean an initial slight reduction in the number of PS2 components in the PS3.

So finally we can put this matter to rest.