HD-DVD: What effect will crazy deals have on format war?

[P!P]

HD-DVD is having some crazy ass deals. From several major national retailers, right now you can get a HD-A3 and 10 free HD-DVDs (3 from store, 2 included in box, 5 from mail-in) for $200. The lowest Blu-Ray player (stand-alone) is $500 with no free discs and the Blu-Ray people have said they don't see any immediate price cuts. I've been divided on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD since they came out but I must say, buying a HD-DVD player and being able to get your costs back in HD-DVDs for that player is a great deal.

What does everyone think of HD-DVD major price cutting actions, and what affect will it have on Blu-Ray?

[Berserk87]

ya i think the price cuts will have a huge effect.

its cheap, and EVERYONE knows what hd-dvd without thinking twice, theres still a large part of the general population that probly dont know what blu ray is.

i know that some of the people i asked know what hd-dvd is and no blu ray.

[sn00pie]

It's gonna be interesting to see what happens.

I hate the fact that there's atleast 10 different threads on HD DVD vs BD, I wish there was just ONE where we could discuss it. :/

[goji]

Here's an idea that I haven't seen anywhere personally but I wonder if by pricing these things dirt cheap for a while, the entertainment powers at be are hoping to spawn massive sales of HDTV's and Hi-Fi audio setups. Not sure if there really is any correlation to be found. Just a thought.

[+StevoFC MVC]

at the current pricing and with the free dvd promotions there is absolutely no reason for anyone who has an hd tv to not buy an hd-dvd player. unless you have no money that is. but then I don't see why you would have an hd tv to begin with.

[goji]

1. Its probably the only thing to purchase on the mass market today.

2. Gaming rocks in HD, period.

[Marshalus Veteran]

I've said it since the beginning, HDDVD will win. I base this on the "people understand High Definition DVD" vs "what the hell is a Blu Ray!?"

[ctebah]

we have to wait a few weeks to see the numbers chance and maybe see some impact by these big sales.

the big question is: why would anyone want either blu-ray or hd-dvd to win.

i think both camps are proving to us that competition is only best for the consumer.

I mean, ask yourself, would we really see a $99 HDDVD player this soon if there wasn't for blu-ray?

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

I've said it since the beginning, HDDVD will win. I base this on the "people understand High Definition DVD" vs "what the hell is a Blu Ray!?"

youre right. all of my family, and some of my close friends, are exactly this way. it makes sense from the start. TV --> HDTV. DVD --> HD-DVD

that being said, BD's advertisements and spreading FUD has other people convinced that HD-DVD is a subpar format and BD is somehow greatly superior. based on what? mainly 3 things:

• - Completely different (and therefore obviously superior) manufacturing process.
  - Loseless Audio
  - Disc space
  

I'm sure it's been posted somewhere else, but 1st reports indicate 90,000 HD-A2's sold this weekend. Take it w/ a grain of salt though.

[Malisk]

I wonder how people learned that CD's were a successor to cassette tapes. The names are nothing alike each other, not even the formats! Or CD -> DVD, for that matter?

Nah, I think it's more about pricing.

[Boz]

I mean, ask yourself, would we really see a $99 HDDVD player this soon if there wasn't for blu-ray?

No, I think you are asking the wrong question. Where would Blu-Ray be if it wasn't for HD DVD.

Let me remind you that 1st gen HD DVD player that came out on the market A1 was $499. That's THE FIRST ONE.. upper range 1st Gen HD DVD XA1 was $599.

Do you know how much first Blu-Ray player was? $1000. Do you think they would lower prices as they did if it wasn't for HD DVD driving the discounts.

You see the thing you don't understand is that HD DVD was MEANT to go down as the main stream of revenue for parties involved with royalties not hardware. So the faster they could lower the prices the faster the adoptation begins, the faster they get to have everyone onboard to pay royalties to Toshiba.

Sure, FASTER discounting was due to the competition, but you be rest assured that Blu-Ray simply wouldn't have lowered their prices so fast because the whole point of this BDA cartel is to make everyone richer from studios that are blu to CE companies by ripping consumers.

So if you think that Blu-Ray is to be given props from driving prices think again? Who was following up here? Was it HD DVD who was following Blu-Ray drops or was it the other way around?

[giantpotato]

youre right. all of my family, and some of my close friends, are exactly this way. it makes sense from the start. TV --> HDTV. DVD --> HD-DVD

that being said, BD's advertisements and spreading FUD has other people convinced that HD-DVD is a subpar format and BD is somehow greatly superior. based on what? mainly 3 things:

• - Completely different (and therefore obviously superior) manufacturing process.
  - Loseless Audio
  - Disc space
  

I'm sure it's been posted somewhere else, but 1st reports indicate 90,000 HD-A2's sold this weekend. Take it w/ a grain of salt though.

So your family and close friends are judging a format based on its name?

I've never seen any mention of BD's being better because of their manufacturing process, or lossless audio, especially since both formats support lossless audio.

BD is superior because of its disc space. How can more space not be better?

[ctebah]

You see the thing you don't understand is that HD DVD was MEANT to go down as the main stream of revenue for parties involved with royalties not hardware. So the faster they could lower the prices the faster the adoptation begins, the faster they get to have everyone onboard to pay royalties to Toshiba.

Sure, FASTER discounting was due to the competition, but you be rest assured that Blu-Ray simply wouldn't have lowered their prices so fast because the whole point of this BDA cartel is to make everyone richer from studios that are blu to CE companies by ripping consumers.

1st, I need proof for this ridiculous quote.

and instead of bashing blu-ray right away, realize that i am NOT asking the wrong question.

a $99 hd-dvd player is a good thing, but you can't tell me that one of the reasons for that price isn't the fact that blu-ray is a competitive format.

if, and i mean if, because i don't see this war ending any time soon even though you have speculated this for a while now, if one of the formats win, it will be bad for the consumer.

no one benefits from the monopoly, and so far the sales numbers are on the BD side, no denying that.

[gigapixels Veteran]

So your family and close friends are judging a format based on its name?

I've never seen any mention of BD's being better because of their manufacturing process, or lossless audio, especially since both formats support lossless audio.

BD is superior because of its disc space. How can more space not be better?

Because HD-DVD is working on a 51GB triple-layer disc that should have no problems working with older players. Where's Blu-ray's advantage now?

Not to mention I wouldn't see the advantage of more space as making Blu-ray superior all-around. I find HD-DVD far superior even without the triple-layer disc.

[SIE]

Last i heard it was the other way round, Blu-ray discs cost more to make, HD-DVD discs were cheaper due to better yields, my biggest problem with blu-ray is simply Sony, theres always trying to push there own formats to get licensing fee's. I hate to think how much those fee's would go up if they won the format war.

[NateB1]

1st, I need proof for this ridiculous quote.

a $99 hd-dvd player is a good thing, but you can't tell me that one of the reasons for that price isn't the fact that blu-ray is a competitive format.

It's a competitive format simply because Sony owns the movie studios that produce BD only. If all studios made discs in all formats, HD-DVD would have won by now. The actual players are not competitive - and until Sony makes BD players that are $99, then the players will not be competitive.

[giantpotato]

Because HD-DVD is working on a 51GB triple-layer disc that should have no problems working with older players. Where's Blu-ray's advantage now?

Not to mention I wouldn't see the advantage of more space as making Blu-ray superior all-around. I find HD-DVD far superior even without the triple-layer disc.

Until that 51GB disc goes into production (IF it ever does) Blu-Ray has the space advantage. If you'll read this post I made you'll see that HD DVD is running out of space for movies longer than 3 hours. They are going to have a serious problem fitting LOTR ROTK onto a HD DVD. Why support a technically inferior format?

https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?show...amp;p=588975246

[gigapixels Veteran]

Last i heard it was the other way round, Blu-ray discs cost more to make, HD-DVD discs were cheaper due to better yields, my biggest problem with blu-ray is simply Sony, theres always trying to push there own formats to get licensing fee's. I hate to think how much those fee's would go up if they won the format war.

I know exactly what you mean. Besides, we've already heard quotes from Sony that pretty much say that they will keep prices up despite how cheap it is to produce players and discs. They're greedy, and it's simply the smart choice for the consumer to choose HD-DVD.

[ctebah]

It's a competitive format simply because Sony owns the movie studios that produce BD only. If all studios made discs in all formats, HD-DVD would have won by now. The actual players are not competitive - and until Sony makes BD players that are $99, then the players will not be competitive.

no buddy, i think you got it wrong.

in business world, when you're trying to conqure most of the market, you COMPETE with others, thus hd-dvd is COMPETING against blu-ray and vice versa.

competition comes in many forms:

making a better product

having good advertising

making your product cheaper

etc, etc, etc

it's all COMPETITION.

[MrKuro]

Because HD-DVD is working on a 51GB triple-layer disc that should have no problems working with older players. Where's Blu-ray's advantage now?

Not to mention I wouldn't see the advantage of more space as making Blu-ray superior all-around. I find HD-DVD far superior even without the triple-layer disc.

Thank you .. i also stated the same thing here ....

basically the 51gb Triple layer HDDVD disc is approved and official, and preliminary manufacturing them has already proved reliable with great yeilds. The sony's proposed 75/100gb discs are still in concept stages, and sony has already stated yeilds are far from optimal at the moment, heck even the normal DL bluray discs have relatively poor yeilds compared to hddvd. Also the higher capacity bluray disks have been stated as not being fully compatible with old players (unlike new hddvd discs which work just fine in gen1 players).. so basically what i'm saying it don't hold your breathe for TL bluray discs.

HDDVD all the great features and advantages, now at a very affordable price. ..

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

So your family and close friends are judging a format based on its name?

I've never seen any mention of BD's being better because of their manufacturing process, or lossless audio, especially since both formats support lossless audio.

BD is superior because of its disc space. How can more space not be better?

they dont judge anything. they arent educated enough in the topic to judge anything. im simply saying they know the names b/c of this. it's easy to remember.

yeah, sure, more space is better, of course. but if thats the main reason that everyone is supporting BD then that's a huge problem.

and yeah, HD-DVD claims the triple layer, 51GB, blah blah blah. the next week, BD says they can make a 200GB disc. whoopty doo. it's back and forth w/ the disc space issue. it's like fighting over whose Mustang has more horsepower, or which gets better gas mileage.

[Emon]

I have no idea why the supports of BD still rooting for it. Come on Guys! its backed by Sony! Here's Sony's record for your reference:

Mini-Disc (1991)--custom disc format, and used ATRAC audio compression, which is proprietary.

Sony Dynamic Digital Sound (1993)--a competitor to the Dolby Digital 5.1 standard.

Multi-Media Compact Disc (1994)--Sony's proprietary format for high-density optical storage, developed in conjunction with Phillips. Negotiations merged this format and Toshiba's Super Density disc format into what would become DVD.

Music Clip (1999)--Sony's first digital player, used ATRAC audio compression.

HiFD (1998)--a competitor to Iomega's Zip drive.

Memory Stick (1998)--proprietary memory device as a competitor to SD and Flash memory.

Super Audio CD (1999)--an optical disc format with higher fidelity than the CD.

PSP (2004)--Uses Universal Media Disc (UMD) media, a proprietary media format.

Add BD to this list and just move on ... buy a HD-DVD player.

[mattmatik]

I just wish Blu-Ray players were affordable because a lot of the movies on BD I want to own. But, I am not about to pay $400+ for a player. I got my HD-DVD add-on for $149 and it's been great. I just would like to see more studios go multi-platform, if we are in this for the long haul.

[giantpotato]

I know exactly what you mean. Besides, we've already heard quotes from Sony that pretty much say that they will keep prices up despite how cheap it is to produce players and discs. They're greedy, and it's simply the smart choice for the consumer to choose HD-DVD.

Last I looked Sony wasn't the only company producing Blu-Ray players. Toshiba on the other hand pretty much has a monopoly on HD DVD players. The reason prices are not dropping on Blu-Ray players is because companies exist to make a profit. Samsung is not going to produce a Blu-Ray player simply to take a loss on every player sold. That's not a very smart business strategy for a CE manufacturer. Toshiba is dropping prices and taking a loss on all HD DVD players sold at $99 because they're the one's who are getting the license fees for HD DVD discs. They can't continue to sell players at $99 indefinately. Sony isn't any more greedy than Toshiba.

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

Until that 51GB disc goes into production (IF it ever does) Blu-Ray has the space advantage. If you'll read this post I made you'll see that HD DVD is running out of space for movies longer than 3 hours. They are going to have a serious problem fitting LOTR ROTK onto a HD DVD. Why support a technically inferior format?

somehow they fit Gods & Generals on HD-DVD, and it's over 4hrs long.

Remember, there's plenty of BD movies on SL discs. some of the earliest releases were.

Also, how is HD-DVD technically inferior simply for the single issue of less GBs? last i read, BDs Profile 1.1 just went into effect. and BD's profiles wont even match HD-DVDs until 2.0. So how is BD superior again?

BD players are very expensive. Heck, that new Profile 1.1 Panasonic player wont even have onboard bitstream decoding or and ethernet port, yet will still cost $500. Blu-Ray disc production has incredibly low yields.

hmm...