HD-DVD: What effect will crazy deals have on format war?

[sundayx Veteran]

Bingo!

All this talk is completely irrelevant. $99 - same picture and audio quality (especially considering that 90% of consumers listens to these movies on their $400 5.1 system or even worse TV speakers), all finished specs, every disc released today works with 1st gen players too.

The my dick is longer then yours with size and bitrate that BDA is trying to scream has shown absolutely no real visible advantages.

All these Blu-Ray fanboys who keep citing BDA skewed information and pretty much crap with spinning will realize what all HD DVD supporting people are saying here.

Blu-Ray is a DUD. It's an overhyped, unfinished piece of crap, that produces grainy movies, with over 50% of movies in MPEG2 and PCM audio because they can't get all players to decode audio on the same levels due to incompletness of the format and the freedom given to CE companies to save a buck by including/excluding certain things.

I say, beginning of 2008 it will become very clear that Blu-Ray will be just like UMD. Done. For the existence of PS3 console it will use Blu-Rays for games, HD DVD will become, efficient and cheap next-gen DVD as it really is (comes from DVD forum)

with incredible picture and sound quality for the masses at <$100 regular price and we might witness mass-suicides by Blu-Ray fanatics.

It's so beautiful to see Blu-Ray crowd in panic. 100k HD DVD players sold in 3 days? Hahahaha.. oh yeah, they are just dumping inventory HAHHAHAHH... Judging by analysits we will see around 1 million HD DVD standalone players before the end of 2007. This will COMPLETELY kill the PS3 advantage considering that PS3 is selling, again as expected, like crap.

It's gonna be a wonderful holiday season and even more beautiful 2008. Seeing Blu-Ray fans squeek in denial is just a bonus.

You should leave this thread and hug your HD DVDs.

[giantpotato]

Bingo!

All this talk is completely irrelevant. $99 - same picture and audio quality (especially considering that 90% of consumers listens to these movies on their $400 5.1 system or even worse TV speakers), all finished specs, every disc released today works with 1st gen players too.

The my dick is longer then yours with size and bitrate that BDA is trying to scream has shown absolutely no real visible advantages.

All these Blu-Ray fanboys who keep citing BDA skewed information and pretty much crap with spinning will realize what all HD DVD supporting people are saying here.

Blu-Ray is a DUD. It's an overhyped, unfinished piece of crap, that produces grainy movies, with over 50% of movies in MPEG2 and PCM audio because they can't get all players to decode audio on the same levels due to incompletness of the format and the freedom given to CE companies to save a buck by including/excluding certain things.

I say, beginning of 2008 it will become very clear that Blu-Ray will be just like UMD. Done. For the existence of PS3 console it will use Blu-Rays for games, HD DVD will become, efficient and cheap next-gen DVD as it really is (comes from DVD forum)

with incredible picture and sound quality for the masses at <$100 regular price and we might witness mass-suicides by Blu-Ray fanatics.

It's so beautiful to see Blu-Ray crowd in panic. 100k HD DVD players sold in 3 days? Hahahaha.. oh yeah, they are just dumping inventory HAHHAHAHH... Judging by analysits we will see around 1 million HD DVD standalone players before the end of 2007. This will COMPLETELY kill the PS3 advantage considering that PS3 is selling, again as expected, like crap.

It's gonna be a wonderful holiday season and even more beautiful 2008. Seeing Blu-Ray fans squeek in denial is just a bonus.

The $99 HD DVD player was a one time deal. Toshiba got rid of all those players they were unable to sell at a higher price so they don't have any HD-A2 stock left to get rid of.

Now we're talking about penis size. Real mature there Boz. Is this what it comes to when you have no more FUD to spread? If you'll actually read carefully, I never said the extra bitrate would improve better visual quality, unlike fanboys, my arguments are based on facts. With a lower bitrate limit you can't fit as much material on a disc (subtitles,audio, PiP etc.)

How is it unfinished? The specs have been finalized long ago, It's up to disc manufacturers and CE manufacturers to implement them.

"Piece of crap" = your OPINION. And honestly, I don't gave a crap about your closed-minded opinion.

PCM audio is a bad thing? How the hell is pure uncompressed audio a bad thing? You need to do some research.

Again your last paragraph is nothign but pure speculation on your part. You say PS3 is selling like crap, yet it still has the advantage. What does that say about HD DVD? It's selling like diarhheah? I could very well speculate you'll commit suicide if Blu-Ray wins.

[EcPercy]

Hate to keep this one going, but I have to add that I bought an HD-A3 this weekend for $199 at best buy. I don't usually even shop at best buy, but with 10 free movies the deal was too good to pass up. :D

I don't think that Blu-Ray is a bad format, but I do have a problem with the different "profiles" that are in the works and how the current feature set will not be the same as HD DVD until profile 2.0. I look at reviews all the time on High Def Digest and from what I have seen the picture quality (PQ) looks pretty much exactly the same between BD and HD. (There are some exceptions to this, but not many)

I can't see spending 2x-4x the amount of money to essentially get the same thing so I went with HD DVD. I refuse to play along with Sony's plan to have you buy 2-4 blu-ray players so that you can have the same thing that is already available on HD DVD. (I am one that likes extras and interactive content is nice) I refuse to buy a PS3 as I have no need for one and that is currently the cheapest blu-ray player. I can tell you one thing for sure; disc space is not going to win the format war.

I won't give blu-ray a serious thought until the hardware has been standardized and the price is at an acceptable level.

[shakey_snake]

How the hell is pure uncompressed audio a bad thing? You need to do some research.

Um... because it would be major a waste of disk space with no quality increase. I think maybe you need to do some research:

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lossless

[giantpotato]

Um... because it would be major a waste of disk space with no quality increase. I think maybe you need to do some research:

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lossless

How do you "waste space" on a disc. If the space is there and it isn't going to be used for anything else how is it "wasted". If the space is there it might as well be used. If "Lossless quality"= "Uncompressed quality" and there's plenty of space for it, why would it be bad? Using DD could be considered "bad".

[shakey_snake]

Aren't we originally talking within the context of not having extra space?

even if we weren't, for a blu-Ray disc it could be the difference between adding a couple extra features, or keeping a short movie on one layer (and thus lowering production costs).

Either way, Blu-Ray uses Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio as a lossless audio compression format. So, either you don't know what you're talking about, or you do know and you're using the wrong terminology and don't know how to communicate in an exacting manner. Both of these scenarios really burdens someone trying to read your contributions in this thread.

Edited November 8, 2007 by shakey_snake

[giantpotato]

Aren't we originally talking within the context of not having extra space?

even if we weren't, for a blu-Ray disc it could be the difference between adding a couple extra features, or keeping a short movie on 1 layer. (and lowering production costs).

My argument is try to show Boz that what he thinks is bad, is in reality, not bad. I don't know exactly what movies Boz was talking about, so yes, you could be right, but it's also possible there would be absolutely no difference between PCM or Lossless, other than a bunch of free space on the disk.

[shakey_snake]

It sounds like Boz thinks spending too much money is a bad thing.

He probably meant AC-3, not PCM.

This thread has too many people who don't know what they are talking about.

[giantpotato]

It sounds like Boz thinks spending too much money is a bad thing.

He probably meant AC-3, not PCM.

This thread has too many people who don't know what they are talking about.

Boz has been going on about the godlyness of HD DVD since long before the price drop. He meant what he said, he just didn't understand it himself. In fact the only reason I started pushing Blu-Ray on this forum is because I got sick of seeing daily postings by Boz about the greatness of HD DVD. I decided to talk about HD DVD's downsides, and some people refuse to believe they exist.

If people don't know what they're talking about they need to be educated, and not be allowed to spread mistruths to others.

[shakey_snake]

Yourself included.

[giantpotato]

Yourself included.

Please show me where I have be spreading lies, before making statements you can't back up.

[TruckWEB]

Please show me where I have be spreading lies, before making statements you can't back up.

Maybe just in your signature?

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

I decided to talk about HD DVD's downsides, and some people refuse to believe they exist.

If people don't know what they're talking about they need to be educated, and not be allowed to spread mistruths to others.

HD DVDs downsides.... less GBs than Blu-Ray. Are there more downsides to HD DVD I'm forgetting? Serious question. I cant think of any others.

[giantpotato]

Maybe just in your signature?

What part of my signature? The link to my Volkswagen Rabbit website? If you do a search for the neilsen videoscan weekly sales data, you'll see Blu-Ray has consistently outsold HD DVD every single week this year. Care to try again?

HD DVDs downsides.... less GBs than Blu-Ray. Are there more downsides to HD DVD I'm forgetting? Serious question. I cant think of any others.

The lower bitrate. I've posted quickly about it here https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?show...amp;p=588979744 but I plan to do a more in-depth writeup about it later because I'm getting tired of posting the same thing over and over.

[SIE]

Marty2003 is a die hard blueray fan, theres no point arguing with him. As things stand, HD-DVD is a better choice "at the moment" simply because of the cost of the players and the fact that you don't have to worry about incompatibilities in the future..

[soniqstylz]

Can I just interject -- replying back to the OP, that while the deal is not as good, you do get 5 free movies from Blu-Ray, not "no free movies" as he posted.

Carry on.

[TruckWEB]

What part of my signature? The link to my Volkswagen Rabbit website? If you do a search for the neilsen videoscan weekly sales data, you'll see Blu-Ray has consistently outsold HD DVD every single week this year. Care to try again?

Outsold maybe, but you're signature pointing to ZERO for HD-DVD is very much a lie.

[giantpotato]

Marty2003 is a die hard blueray fan, theres no point arguing with him. As things stand, HD-DVD is a better choice "at the moment" simply because of the cost of the players and the fact that you don't have to worry about incompatibilities in the future..

Yet, nobody has been able to prove me wrong on my points about HD DVD's shortcomings. Everyone seems to resort to personal jabs. I understand HD DVD's are cheaper, that alone, does not make it the better format. If you want to buy a HD DVD player now, feel free to. Nobody's stopping you. It would just be nice if someone would admit it does have shortcomings. And BTW you don't have to worry about incompatibilities with Blu-Ray in the future, ALL Blu-Ray movies will play in all players now and in the future. If you choose to buy a Blu-Ray player that doesn't support certain OPTIONAL special features, that's your choice.

Outsold maybe, but you're signature pointing to ZERO for HD-DVD is very much a lie.

No it is not. There has not been a single week this year which HD DVD has been a weekly leader in sales.

[Joni_78]

Why the **** is it that neowin is full of fanboys nowadays, every thread turn something like this one. If only there was a way to filter posts made by people below 20yo. I couldn't care less wich format wins.

[sundayx Veteran]

Marty2003 is a die hard blueray fan, theres no point arguing with him. As things stand, HD-DVD is a better choice "at the moment" simply because of the cost of the players and the fact that you don't have to worry about incompatibilities in the future..

I agree.

[PeterTHX]

HD DVDs downsides.... less GBs than Blu-Ray. Are there more downsides to HD DVD I'm forgetting? Serious question. I cant think of any others.

Less studio support.

Maxed out in capability. Already titles like "Transformers" have had to lose features like lossless audio because there simply is no room.

Titles like "Blood Diamond" "Superman Returns" "Polar Express" "Gods and Generals" looking excessively soft because the disc is full and the bitrate has to be kept down.

The audio/video experience of the Pixar films could never be the same with those limitations.

Let's not forget Toshiba's hardware monopoly, there is no choice if you want another brand player.

Little things like the inability to frame by frame, something standard DVD could do.

Discs like "Clockwork Orange" having to be spread to 2 HD DVD discs. The BD version is a single BD50.

Boz likes to denigrate MPEG2, yet MPEG2 discs like "Pearl Harbor", "Ice Age: The Meltdown", "World Trade Center", "Enemy of the State", "Black Hawk Down", "SWAT" kick ass (WTC much sharper than the HD DVD version, again on a BD50)

As far as unfinished specs: who gives a crap about the features? You think the general public wants to hook an ethernet to the living room so they can buy "Chuck and Larry" oversize boxer shorts online from their HD DVD player?

[TruckWEB]

Let's not forget Toshiba's hardware monopoly, there is no choice if you want another brand player.

True, as we speak right now, ONLY Toshiba sell HD-DVD player. It way change soon, with the cheap Venturier player for Walmart and the high-end Onkyo supposed to be out soon. If Toshiba decided to stop production, it would be the instant end/death of HD-DVD.

As far as unfinished specs: who gives a crap about the features? You think the general public wants to hook an ethernet to the living room so they can buy "Chuck and Larry" oversize boxer shorts online from their HD DVD player?

Just because YOU don't like extra feature on a film, does not mean everyone think like you. You can't talk for everyone.

[PeterTHX]

True, as we speak right now, ONLY Toshiba sell HD-DVD player. It way change soon, with the cheap Venturier player for Walmart and the high-end Onkyo supposed to be out soon. If Toshiba decided to stop production, it would be the instant end/death of HD-DVD.

Venturer, which is a rebadged A3, which will *not* be sold at Wal-Mart.

Onkyo is a rebadged A20 with high end D/A converters. Onkyo has already said their next player will be a combo, and push Blu-ray compatibility as a selling point for their new receivers.

So far *only* Toshiba is making strictly HD DVD hardware. I say strictly because the combo players from LG & Samsung are full featured BD machines as well.

Just because YOU don't like extra feature on a film, does not mean everyone think like you. You can't talk for everyone.

Sales of the single disc versions of films sold as either 2 disc SEs or 1 disc film only far outstrip the 2 disc versions.

Sales of "300" on Blu-ray were double the HD DVD version, despite the HD DVD version having additional special features.

[Huleboeren]

...

Just because YOU don't like extra feature on a film, does not mean everyone think like you. You can't talk for everyone.

Watching special extra features is something you do when you have nothing else to do in the whole wide world..

Seriously

[Julius Caro]

Watching special extra features is something you do when you have nothing else to do in the whole wide world..

Seriously

Amen!