+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted November 21, 2007 Author Subscriber² Share Posted November 21, 2007 The problem I have with pushing the whole PS3 as super duper player is because Sony wants it that way. We wouldn't even have the discussion whether or not HD DVD is the next format if it wasn't for this attitude where people talk about PS3 as the holy grail of Blu-Ray players. They have to, because if it turns out to be mediocre player, it might hurt sales (bad as it is) and without PS3, Blu-Ray is definitely down. Most people commenting have no clue, actually any Blu-Ray standalone with better video chip will produce much better picture then PS3. But hey, you can't argue with someone who just refuses to listen to anything that might be different from their own logic. Right now it is effectively the holy grail for Blu Ray as balancing up price/quality, the PS3 comes out damn near the top if you want a Blu Ray player. Why pay $400 or w/e for a standalone player when you can get a PS3 that does a ton more and has been proven to be a good Blu Ray player? ^ Of course some people will want a standalone player, but others will go for better value. Haven't you been the one Boz thats been pimping out the $199 HD-DVD player as the "holy grail" and it argubaly lacks in quality/features compared to it's more expensive counterparts? :/ because if it turns out to be mediocre player What on earth do you mean by that? The PS3 has been out for a year Boz. There are plently of reviews on it as a Blu Ray player :laugh: Most of them stating it's very worthwile considering the PS3 as your movie player instead of a standalone. This is a very good bundled offer, thats it. It's a shame I don't actually know if PS3 sales count towards Blu Ray hardware sales on official sales lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kak Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 This is a very good bundled offer, thats it. It's a shame I don't actually know if PS3 sales count towards Blu Ray hardware sales on official sales lists. I'm pretty sure that they don't. If they did, the hardware sales would be much closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDQuiksilver Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I'm pretty sure that they don't. If they did, the hardware sales would be much closer. Of course they don't. But with deals like this it's quite honestly the best deal on the market that would allow somebody to jump into the Blu-ray arena. I would not be surprised to see people buying these just to play Blu-ray movies, being a gamer or not. So why not count the sales? It has a dedicated drive, not an add-on... should fit the bill as a player IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I think you're acting a little unreasonable. Ofcourse, it's not a hometheater fanatic's wet dream. It's a video game console, looks like a video game console, and sounds like a video game console. But you must admit that this isn't anything like what you're implying. The video quality (and sound quality for that matter over HDMI) is not worse than the stand alone blu-ray players. It's exactly the same from a picture and sound quality standpoint when connected over HDMI outputting 1080p24 and outputting uncompressed PCM, decoding True HD, and outputting the DTS HD core of DTS HD MA (no player I know of does this though some will output the bitstream to a receiver that can, which the PS3 cannot do). Your comparison to a 49 dvd player and the PS2 are completely invalid in terms of image and sound quality versus the rest of the market. Really? So the fact that CD players hooked into the same DAC (thereby removing the differences inherent in the internal DACs, as well as the differences in components used after the DAC to carry the signal to the preamp) sounded different is impossible according to you? After all, digital is digital. Right? Ah, no. It's not the same, all BD players (or HD-DVD) are not equal in terms of quality, either for sound or video, and if they were, why buy anything more expensive than the cheapest one on the market? Have you read any of his posts? They aren't discussing anything. He comes in here to discuss everything that he thinks is negative about Sony products. Its clearly obvious in every thread he posts regarding the issue. There isn't a good counter-argument as he'll only repost the same nonsense stating that some rumor or insider told him so. He has an argument to make. What do you have? A rebuttal generally consists of more than name-calling. It's starting to sound like a Mac ad in here. "PCs have issues and Vista sucks and Macs have applications." Wow, great argument there. Makes me want to defend Sony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Phreak Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 1. Being recognised as a format, does not make a product more mature, just as age does not determine one's maturity.2. No I don't have access to Wal-mart's sales figures. That's why I said the sale had no MEASUREABLE impact on sales. ie. If it had an impact it was not measureable. So now you are arguing the very definition of the word mature? Wow, you should call all of the dictionary makers and inform them of its new meaning :) Also just because you do not know the figures does not mean that the figures aren't measureable. That's like saying that because there are a near-infinite (or infinite) number of stars in the sky that they aren't measurable. Anything can be measured. What you might mean is that there was no noticeable difference. Very different meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonComet Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Really? So the fact that CD players hooked into the same DAC (thereby removing the differences inherent in the internal DACs, as well as the differences in components used after the DAC to carry the signal to the preamp) sounded different is impossible according to you? After all, digital is digital. Right?Ah, no. It's not the same, all BD players (or HD-DVD) are not equal in terms of quality, either for sound or video, and if they were, why buy anything more expensive than the cheapest one on the market? He has an argument to make. What do you have? A rebuttal generally consists of more than name-calling. It's starting to sound like a Mac ad in here. "PCs have issues and Vista sucks and Macs have applications." Wow, great argument there. Makes me want to defend Sony. OK, wow. I never said anything like digital is digital no hardware can be of different quality outputting digital, and all that stuff you say I would say. I meant to imply that I have yet to see a review or even a well thought out forum post that mentions any difference in playback quality of the PS3 on blu-ray movies when on the newest firmware and outputting 1080p24. Have you? I will admit that I've never read a review of the super expensive Denon. I know that the SACD playback in the PS3 is not ideal. There are reviews and sources that confirm that. Can't find anything that says that the PS3 looks or sounds noticeably worse on movies than all the other 400-600 dollar 2nd/3rd gen players on the market. I mean just doing a quick search Sound and Vision rated the PS3 higher than the first-gen Samsung (yes this one is awful) and Panasonic (other than 1080p24 this player is great in my book) when it came out. And things have only gotten better since then. So I fail to see how this is a case of a PS2 vs a fairly high end dvd player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Phreak Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 it isn't 20% 10% is 3.00. you pay $3.50 topsThen I rent something else? or maybe reserve it? Then I bring it back? I'm about 2 blocks from 2 different video stores see above answer a $30.00 convenience fee? It's nothing like a console. This is a winless argument for you in my case. Buying $20.00 to $30.00 movies that you watch maybe (on average) 2 to 4 times a year makes no sense to me. watching it once every 3 months is still only $14.00 I believe earlier you said the price could scale to as much as $5. $5 is 20% of $25 which exists halfway between your $20-$30 figure. Superior math skills for the win. Also it is exactly like a console. I have over 10 consoles. Having them all around by your logic is a waste since I may or may not play them all the time. It'd just be better to pay a small rental fee that amounts to 3% of the price of the console each time I want to rent one if you assume that the price of a console is $300 on average and a rental would only be $10. Also it's only "unwinnable" because you don't want me to win. No one likes to lose right? Really? So the fact that CD players hooked into the same DAC (thereby removing the differences inherent in the internal DACs, as well as the differences in components used after the DAC to carry the signal to the preamp) sounded different is impossible according to you? After all, digital is digital. Right?Ah, no. It's not the same, all BD players (or HD-DVD) are not equal in terms of quality, either for sound or video, and if they were, why buy anything more expensive than the cheapest one on the market? He has an argument to make. What do you have? A rebuttal generally consists of more than name-calling. It's starting to sound like a Mac ad in here. "PCs have issues and Vista sucks and Macs have applications." Wow, great argument there. Makes me want to defend Sony. Actually digital is digital. The 1s and 0s remain the same regardless. However analog is not always the same. I think you of all people (being a mod on a tech site) should realize that DAC stands for Digital to Analog Convertor. Now the quality of that convertor can make a large difference in the quality of the end sound/picture as it's not longer truly digital by the time it reaches your ears/eyes. So I think you sort of fail on any points you were trying to make. EDIT - Also I thought I should address your first line a bit more. You do realize that even if you have another setup with DAC that it doesn't necessarily bypass the internal DAC's right? That' can most definitely account for a difference in the sound/picture in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 EDIT - Also I thought I should address your first line a bit more. You do realize that even if you have another setup with DAC that it doesn't necessarily bypass the internal DAC's right? That' can most definitely account for a difference in the sound/picture in the end. So, you're saying that the optical out of a CD player, running to the external DAC still uses an internal DAC? Not on the models we used to test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Phreak Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 So, you're saying that the optical out of a CD player, running to the external DAC still uses an internal DAC? Not on the models we used to test. In that case it usually bypasses the DAC, but along the point it still hits a DAC somewhere (it has to to be honest) and that's usually where your differences in sound come from. So digital is digital, which was the point I was trying to make. Now if we only had a pure digital signal all the way to the speakers then without artificial changes via hardware/software everyones system would sound the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soniqstylz Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 So, it's a better quality player than any other BD player on the market? Why are the others more expensive? Sony is selling the PS3 as a loss-leader hoping to push Blu-ray and Playstion into living rooms. Same reason Toshiba can fire sale HD-DVD players in order to get them into living rooms and make money in the end. Philips, Mitsubishi, Pioneer, Denon, etc., are in it to make money from the start. They won't see the residual profits the same way Sony and Toshiba would. So there's no incentive to price-drop their players. Business 101. The main thing that the PS3 misses out on from a Blu-Ray perspective is one or two of the audio codecs. This is a very good bundled offer, thats it. It's a shame I don't actually know if PS3 sales count towards Blu Ray hardware sales on official sales lists. It depends on which numbers the HD-DVD camp wants to tout. If they want stand-alone players, then no, the PS3 doesn't count. If they want attach rates, then yes, the PS3 does count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman273 Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Well, now that this has turned into a BR vs. HD-DVD thing, where is this special? I just realized the special supposedly starts tomorrow, which is Saturday, when most specials started today. I also checked the Wal-Mart Friday and Saturday specials and only see the 360 and PS2 in there. Did this come out or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Phreak Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Well, now that this has turned into a BR vs. HD-DVD thing, where is this special? I just realized the special supposedly starts tomorrow, which is Saturday, when most specials started today. I also checked the Wal-Mart Friday and Saturday specials and only see the 360 and PS2 in there. Did this come out or not? Supposedly? http://holiday.ri-walmart.com/?section=secret All Wal-Marts will be selling this starting at 8am tomorrow. I plan on being there at 10pm tonight to wait for this since the local Wal-Mart said I could start waiting then :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman273 Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Supposedly?http://holiday.ri-walmart.com/?section=secret All Wal-Marts will be selling this starting at 8am tomorrow. I plan on being there at 10pm tonight to wait for this since the local Wal-Mart said I could start waiting then :) Aha! I couldn't find that anywhere. All that kept getting brought up was that green ad at the bootom of your link. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Instead of posting something that makes no sence, you should try to understand this sale from a different angle.you're STILL paying the same old price that people are paying for ps3's only NOW, you get 15 FREE blu-ray movies. so if a person wasn't using their ps3 for a blu-ray player this far, they sure are going to now. Instead of posting something that makes no sense, you should try and read my post :) My comment was directed at the Playstation 3 as a console, not as an HD-movie player. Most Playstation 3 owners (and console owners as a whole) don't use their consoles for playing movies. My point was that this won't change the perception that the console is still a high price as it's only giving you movies -- which most people don't even use. As I said, good luck to them, but they need to drop the price to get more gamers. I'm sure this will help them, though, even if it is a one-time thing :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noveed Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 wish the UK would hold a sale, id be first in line, still waiting a some type of free Blu Ray movie offer in the UK, the US had 5 free movies, still to come to the UK :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huleboeren Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Speaking of blu-ray - has Superbad been released in the US yet? :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDQuiksilver Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Speaking of blu-ray - has Superbad been released in the US yet? :p December 4th on Blu-ray. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Phreak Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Thought I'd update my earlier post about the Wal-Mart sale. I went there last night around 8pm just to get some details. One of the guys in electronics there gave me some info after he pulled me aside (I have a lot of friends who still work at this location) They got in 52 of the PS3 80GB Motorstorm bundles and a full shipper of Blu-Ray movies. I asked him if I should hang out or come back in the morning. He said to check in during the night. So my wife called a couple times during the early morning and as of 4am there was STILL no one in line and the sale started at 8am. So we slept until almost 6:30am and then headed down. There was only one person in line ahead of me and no one else showed up until right before 8am. All told by 8:30am they had only sold 5 of the PS3 bundles with the 10 movies. The wife and I ended up grabbing the following: Casino Royale The Fifth Element Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within Live Free or Die Hard Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Mans Chest Ratatouille Spiderman 3 Stargate X-Men: The Last Stand After tax it came to $541.99 All in all not a bad deal. Now to order the other 5 discs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted November 24, 2007 Author Subscriber² Share Posted November 24, 2007 Thought I'd update my earlier post about the Wal-Mart sale.I went there last night around 8pm just to get some details. One of the guys in electronics there gave me some info after he pulled me aside (I have a lot of friends who still work at this location) They got in 52 of the PS3 80GB Motorstorm bundles and a full shipper of Blu-Ray movies. I asked him if I should hang out or come back in the morning. He said to check in during the night. So my wife called a couple times during the early morning and as of 4am there was STILL no one in line and the sale started at 8am. So we slept until almost 6:30am and then headed down. There was only one person in line ahead of me and no one else showed up until right before 8am. All told by 8:30am they had only sold 5 of the PS3 bundles with the 10 movies. The wife and I ended up grabbing the following: Casino Royale The Fifth Element Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within Live Free or Die Hard Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Mans Chest Ratatouille Spiderman 3 Stargate X-Men: The Last Stand After tax it came to $541.99 All in all not a bad deal. Now to order the other 5 discs. (Y) Some decent movies in there :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Caro Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 The PS3 is the top end? I hate to break it to you, but it's as top end as the DVD player in the PS2 was. The PS3 is the cheap BD player, not the top one. the PS2 sucked as a DVD player. The ps3 doesnt suck as a BD player at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusuf M. Veteran Posted November 24, 2007 Veteran Share Posted November 24, 2007 The PS3 is the top end? I hate to break it to you, but it's as top end as the DVD player in the PS2 was. The PS3 is the cheap BD player, not the top one. It's scary how many people actually believe the PS3 has a high end BD drive. I'm just waiting for the "z0mg my PS3 is giving me a Disc Read Error. What the hell?" stories. Just kidding. The cheap BD drive is the only thing I dislike about the PS3. Everything else is wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted November 24, 2007 Author Subscriber² Share Posted November 24, 2007 It's scary how many people actually believe the PS3 has a high end BD drive. I'm just waiting for the "z0mg my PS3 is giving me a Disc Read Error. What the hell?" stories. Just kidding. The cheap BD drive is the only thing I dislike about the PS3. Everything else is wonderful. Care to back that up ? :/ All the reviews I read online favour the PS3 Blu Ray player as being "good". I would define "cheap" as feature lacking, or noticeably poorer viewing quality. I have no issues feature/quality wise with it... but that's why I turn to online reviews for comparisons to other players : I don't own another standalone player myself. Do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sn00pie Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 the PS2 sucked as a DVD player. The ps3 doesnt suck as a BD player at all PS2 w/ component cables = amazing dvd playback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Phreak Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 (Y) Some decent movies in there :) Yup. A few of them were my wifes choices, but overall I'm happy with the set. I only felt it fair to get split the 10 in-store up 5 & 5. It actually ended up being 6:4 in her favor but meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunknMunky Veteran Posted November 24, 2007 Veteran Share Posted November 24, 2007 Yeah my PS2 was terrible for DVD playback. It wouldn't play half of them, and the ones it did would skip or have some other problem. And no it wasn't the condition of the disks, the thing just sucked. Yet it always played games fine :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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