Business Week: Blu-ray Is Winning

[Zab]

https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=605649

Poll on who you want to win in the Blu-Ray / HD DVD war.

[Ayepecks]

stevan: 33% of Playstation 3 owners > more than the rest of the Blu-Ray players sold. So, yes, it is a big deal.

Honestly, I think whichever side Warner goes to wins easily. Look at their titles and you'll see why. They've done the best with the high-def titles of anyone, I think. This article is just another rumor, however -- there are numerous articles that have said otherwise and numerous articles that have agreed with this one (about where Warner's going).

[TDQuiksilver]

stevan: 33% of Playstation 3 owners > more than the rest of the Blu-Ray players sold. So, yes, it is a big deal.

Honestly, I think whichever side Warner goes to wins easily. Look at their titles and you'll see why. They've done the best with the high-def titles of anyone, I think. This article is just another rumor, however -- there are numerous articles that have said otherwise and numerous articles that have agreed with this one (about where Warner's going).

...and who cares if it's the Playstation 3 that is keeping it alive at this point? It's currently the best bang for the buck player for Blu-ray media, so why not? We've seen sales recently, so no doubt should more dedicated players sell.

[Joel]

Yes, but who is VHS>

JVC.

[Ayepecks]

...and who cares if it's the Playstation 3 that is keeping it alive at this point? It's currently the best bang for the buck player for Blu-ray media, so why not? We've seen sales recently, so no doubt should more dedicated players sell.

Whoa, chill out, I never said I cared. I said it is a big deal, so let's not try and act like the majority of PS3 owners not knowing they have a PS3 doesn't mean that the rest that actually do use it aren't an insignificant amount. It's the single largest base of HD players there is, even if you're only counting the ones that use it.

[TDQuiksilver]

Whoa, chill out, I never said I cared. I said it is a big deal, so let's not try and act like the majority of PS3 owners not knowing they have a PS3 doesn't mean that the rest that actually do use it aren't an insignificant amount. It's the single largest base of HD players there is, even if you're only counting the ones that use it.

Huh? Chill out? What are you talking about? :blink:

[Tha Bloo Monkee]

VHS = cheaper, slightly less technologically advanced then Betamax quality wise (Porn sides with VHS :) )

Betamax = more expensive, mostly used commercially and in specialized machines and a little better quality (on paper mostly)

VHS won because of licensing issues.

Sony was greedy and was like "Ok, we're gonna be the only company to make Beta!!11"

...while JVC was like "we'll license it out for a royalty".

So VHS won. Apparently Beta was better than VHS too.

[Cormier6083]

JVC.

lol. So funny. :rolleyes:

Sony was the only company to "support" Betamax. Now, huge companies like Apple, Dell, Panasonic, etc. are pushing Blu-Ray... and it seems to be working, does it not?

[HoochieMamma]

Obviously I was talking about it being a tradition, the latter just means fanboy.

Not a fanboy, don't even own a HDTV at all. But if the past 30 years of Sonys history is anything to go by it sure is tradition.

[Ayepecks]

Huh? Chill out? What are you talking about? :blink:

Ugh... would you ever actually try to keep on topic instead of deflecting what we're actually talking about?

And "chill out" because you were getting defensive. Wasn't a rude comment; it means "calm down" ;)

[Joel]

lol. So funny. :rolleyes:

Why is that funny? Not everyone knows that, you know.

[Malisk]

Seeing this happen is not really unexpected. It's common here for movie retailers to not even carry HD-DVD movies. Their HD sections implicitly being the Blu-ray section. At the same time, Blu-ray is currently outselling HD-DVD at 3:1 as usual, since probably around a year back at least. :p

The market penetration of the PS3 as a HD player is so big that I don't really see HD-DVD putting up much of a competition at this point.

And it doesn't matter if this is mostly due to the PS3 (probably) or anything else. Once more have picked up the format, for any reason, standalone Blu-ray players will have an easier time in the future if the PS3 interest would wane, because it'll be far more common to see retailers carrying the format already.

I can't say I'm annoyed either. I like the Blu-ray format, despite having regional locking. It was just a minor inconvenience with DVD's and I'm used to dealing with that part. Otherwise, it really shines in recording technology where I haven't seen many HD-DVD recorders putting up a fight for a competitive cost with recordable discs at around 60% the cost of a BD-R one. If one is supposed to be "against" them just because Sony back the format, well that always felt a little childish to me. Microsoft supporting HD-DVD hasn't exactly got a heavenly track record in public relations either.

Edited December 9, 2007 by Jugalator

[Zab]

Well okay so i was listening to the radio on wednesday, and my favourite rock station was having a guest on it and guess what! It was one of the hosts off of G4 Tech TV. I can't remember what show he was from but they discussed Blu-ray and HD DVD. He was asked a question about Microsoft and HD DVD and funding and this was what I remember as his response,

"Microsoft is funding HD DVD because they don't what Blu-ray taking over the market, but they don't want to over support/fund because they are coming out with their TV on the XBOX 360 along with Movie Downloads for the XBOX 360. See what their doing is trying to keep this format war going until their Media technologies come out so that they can sweep the field."

^ a bit summarized

Doesn't that make sense? It does to me.

[Tech Star]

^^Looks like that guy from Paramont (Transformers)? was right about why MS was funding HD-DVD.

[ctebah]

Well okay so i was listening to the radio on wednesday, and my favourite rock station was having a guest on it and guess what! It was one of the hosts off of G4 Tech TV. I can't remember what show he was from but they discussed Blu-ray and HD DVD. He was asked a question about Microsoft and HD DVD and funding and this was what I remember as his response,

"Microsoft is funding HD DVD because they don't what Blu-ray taking over the market, but they don't want to over support/fund because they are coming out with their TV on the XBOX 360 along with Movie Downloads for the XBOX 360. See what their doing is trying to keep this format war going until their Media technologies come out so that they can sweep the field."

^ a bit summarized

Doesn't that make sense? It does to me.

Of course it makes sence, and microsoft has the money to do it, but people don't want to believe it. I myself would need a bit more proof.

[Digitalx]

best way to settle this war is just buy what suits your needs/wants don't look back or question the other side ignore the competition and enjoy what you were/are after. for me, it's blu-ray :)

[soniqstylz]

LOL.. How do you figure that? So Blu-Ray studios represent 49% of market share, meaning that HD DVD studios represent 51% of marketshare. If WB goes Blu their market share goes to 79% but if WB goes HD DVD their market share goes to 81%. How EXACTLY do you see that if WB goes red there will be a stalemate and if it goes Blu it will somehow end the war? LOL..

In the real world over here, we say, that 80% of market share is what's called a clear majority of software. You can hope that Sony/Fox and Disney will hold together, but if by any chance Warner goes red, you will see Disney going pretty soon after. Disney voted for approval of TL51gb HD DVD for christ sake and they've created the HDi, do you really think there will be a reason for them to stay exclusively Blu if this happens?

Because apparently you failed math.

If Disney, Sony, and Fox are 49% market share, and Warner is 30%, that means Paramount and Universal are combined around 15%, with the other 6% going to indie studios, and those the likes of Lionsgate, which, as we both mentioned earlier, you were ignoring even with movies like Saw and Crank selling well on Blu-Ray.

If Warner goes to HD-DVD, that takes their market share to 45%, not 81%.

Why would Disney stay Blu? Because a huge chunk of this "war" is over the fact that Microsoft tried to make WMA / VC-1 the de-facto standard over MPEG-4 / Quicktime / H.264 / AVC that Disney (read: Apple) likes to use. That, and the huge $$ that they have poured into ad campaigns, the mall tour they co-sponsored with Pioneer, the copyrighted Disney-centric Blu-Ray logos, etc. etc.

You'll see Fox leave before Disney. As much can be made from the Disney vote as can be assumed by Univsersal execs taking trips to Blu-Ray plants.

[Andrew Lyle Global Moderator]

I really think this holiday season will be the final judge of all things. If HD-DVD players are cheaper, and they sell thousands of these units, double or triple that of blu-ray, then major hollywood companies would re-consider blu-ray only

[soniqstylz]

You don't think so what? That PS3 is not the only reason why Blu-Ray is still alive and kicking?

Then my friend you live in a fairytale. 200k standalone players sold since inception is NOTHING.. there's more then 3 times more dedicated HD DVD players on the market.. what do you think would happen it wasn't for PS3. Be at least A BIT realistic.

Japan is completely irrelevant in the format was as their market is way too small and has very much influence on establishing global standards. We've seen so many technologies that were never adopted on a mass level yet live nicely in Japan. You can freely say that right now North America, Europe and China set the tone of mass adoptation and in this regard, the PS3 is the ONLY fighting horse in this race for Blu-Ray.

At least with Toshiba you have quite a few models to pick from ranging in different prices.

What's your source for the numbers? Last I heard, before the fire-sale, the numbers were 55 - 42%, the other 3% being dual-format. That was according to Toshiba as well as NPD. Please show me the 3:1 numbers. Also, the 750k does include the 360 add-on, so if we're not including the PS3, or at least, say conservatively, 30% of the PS3 worldwide market (all 2 million of those), then we can't include the add-on, all 200k of those, right?

With Blu-Ray you have Sony, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, and Denon. I call that choice. Oh, and the Samsung player has hit sub-$300 on Amazon and several other sites/stores as an official (non-sale) price.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/08/samsu...inks-below-300/

So, if Japan (96% blu-ray) is irrelevant, is also Australia (95% Blu - http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15658/1023/), and Europe (73% Blu - http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/35043/98/)? As far as China is concerned, considering the mass bootleg DVD black market that goes on there, HD-DVD can have it, and the lost profits that go with it.

Edited December 10, 2007 by soniqstylz

[ctebah]

so the number of hd-dvd standalone players isn't 750k? i didn't know the number incorporated hd-dvd addons for the 360?

how far is it comparing that number to the standalone number of blu-ray players?

[shakey_snake]

1: No. It's the exact same technology as HDDVD. The only advantage is it's higher capacity, which isn't really an advantage at all as far as movie-going experience goes.

LOL.

Maybe we should just stick with DVD's then.

[soniqstylz]

so the number of hd-dvd standalone players isn't 750k? i didn't know the number incorporated hd-dvd addons for the 360?

Yes, it does

http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2007...s-hd-dvd-group/

The HD DVD Promotion Group is claiming they now have 750K players in consumer hands. This figure does include the XBOX HD DVD add-on drive, as well as all HD DVD stand alone players. We estimate that the standalone players account for 500k, while the XBOX drive accounts for the other 250K.

The numbers I have heard (but cannot confirm) are around 440k Blu-ray standalones. Again, this is mainly rumor, but then again, I don't have any more of a credible source for that number than Boz does for his 200k number.

As far as the same technologies, no, Blu-Ray has a higher bandwidth (36 Mb/s v. 54 Mb/s). This translates to video encodes in higher bitrates, and audio with higher bitrates. For instance, I was watching PotC3 today, and the video bitrate was peaking between 37 - 41 Mb/s (with 6.9 Mb/s PCM audio added on to that). HD-DVD couldn't support that encode.

Boz, why did Hi-def digest give Live Free or Die Hard 4.5 stars for video quality if it's crap?

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1093/livefreeordiehard.html

Edited December 10, 2007 by soniqstylz

[ctebah]

The numbers I have heard (but cannot confirm) are around 440k Blu-ray standalones. Again, this is mainly rumor, but then again, I don't have any more of a credible source for that number than Boz does for his 200k number.

that i wasn't aware of.

so even with more expensive hardware blu-ray is able to catch up with the sales of standalone hd-dvd players, and when incorporated the total number of units, blu-ray crushes hd-dvd...and apparently only 30% of ps3 owners know it's a blu-ray player....and samsung blu-ray player finally reached bellow $300.

to me that somehow says that blu-ray is beating hd-dvd hands down, and that as blu-ray standalone player prices drop, the sales will go up, and if sony makes sure more of the ps3 owners find out it's a blu-ray player as well, the number of blu-ray software will go up.

[soniqstylz]

that i wasn't aware of.

so even with more expensive hardware blu-ray is able to catch up with the sales of standalone hd-dvd players, and when incorporated the total number of units, blu-ray crushes hd-dvd...and apparently only 30% of ps3 owners know it's a blu-ray player....and samsung blu-ray player finally reached bellow $300.

to me that somehow says that blu-ray is beating hd-dvd hands down, and that as blu-ray standalone player prices drop, the sales will go up, and if sony makes sure more of the ps3 owners find out it's a blu-ray player as well, the number of blu-ray software will go up.

..which is why Sony has been having sales like "buy a PS3 on Amazon, get three Blu-Ray movies instantly", or including Spiderman 3 with the 40 GB, Talladega Nights with the US launch, Casino Royale with the PAL launch, etc.

Supposedly, PAL's will get the new Harry Potter release with PS3 purchase starting in January.

I think more than anything, Sony needs to educate that the PS3 is a very good Blu-Ray player, not a really cheap one that will break if you use it (like PS2 = DVD player). It's actually made to be a Blu-Ray player, will be 1.1 (and eventually 2.0)-compliant soon.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/playstation-3/p...onth-331399.php

[ctebah]

..which is why Sony has been having sales like "buy a PS3 on Amazon, get three Blu-Ray movies instantly", or including Spiderman 3 with the 40 GB, Talladega Nights with the US launch, Casino Royale with the PAL launch, etc.

Supposedly, PAL's will get the new Harry Potter release with PS3 purchase starting in January.

I think more than anything, Sony needs to educate that the PS3 is a very good Blu-Ray player, not a really cheap one that will break if you use it (like PS2 = DVD player). It's actually made to be a Blu-Ray player, will be 1.1 (and eventually 2.0)-compliant soon.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/playstation-3/p...onth-331399.php

the number of profile 1.1 players will jump sharply once that update happends. good for sony.

what profile is my 360 hd-dvd drive and does it feature all the nice hd-dvd technologies?