Business Week: Blu-ray Is Winning

[soniqstylz]

the number of profile 1.1 players will jump sharply once that update happends. good for sony.

what profile is my 360 hd-dvd drive and does it feature all the nice hd-dvd technologies?

HD-DVD doesn't have a profile. Everything was pretty much set by launch (one of HD-DVD's good points).

Since the 360 is internet compatible, I think that the 360-add-on should run all of the features capable of any HD-DVD movie. Hell, it's probably better than some of the Toshiba 1080i players flooding the market. But that also depends on if you have your 360 hooked via broadband / wireless or not, since that's a big selling point. But it should play all of the PiP features. Also, does your 360 hook-up via HDMI? Supposedly, that helps.

edit: Here's the CNet review:

http://reviews.cnet.com/game-accessories/m...7-32068855.html

[ctebah]

HD-DVD doesn't have a profile. Everything was pretty much set by launch (one of HD-DVD's good points).

Since the 360 is internet compatible, I think that the 360-add-on should run all of the features capable of any HD-DVD movie. Hell, it's probably better than some of the Toshiba 1080i players flooding the market. But that also depends on if you have your 360 hooked via broadband / wireless or not, since that's a big selling point. But it should play all of the PiP features.

the irony.

here i am with a 360 hd-dvd addon, about 20 movies, but often cought defending the ps3 even though i do not own one.

[soniqstylz]

No reason for that. If you enjoy what's on HD-DVD, buy 'em up.

Oh, and just wanted to add to an earlier point: When Disney helped MS with iHD, it was with Michael Eisner's backing. He was ousted from the company, and Disney promptly went Blu.

His ouster had little to do with HD formats, just as the VP at Warner's leaving had little to do with HD formats. It's just yet another reason why I wouldn't see Disney holding a red ribbon.

[ienhz]

If Blu-Ray wants and easy win, all they need to do is improve on their players. Their stand-alone players are disgraceful pieces of technology.

-Sony players are extremely slow and barely respond to anything. From the time you press the power button, it can take as long as 10 minutes to play the main feature.

-Samsung players are okay, but needs more room for improvement, at times it fails to read some of it's own Blu-Ray discs.

-Sharp players need to be taken of store shelves. They're horrid. They are slower than life, crash constantly, and suck at playing any format other than Blu-Ray

-Panasonic has the best Blu-Ray players I have seen. Super-fast, highly responsive and easy to use. Only brand worth purchasing from.

The worst part is that you're paying $400 - $500 for any of them. Yeah, yeah, you can purchase a PS3 or whatever, but what if I don't want one? The price and performance of the stand-alone players don't justify crap!

Exactly how I feel. How can Sony even expect to win when you have to pay $500 and whatnot for a standalone player that's technically inferior to the PS3 (in terms of speed and capabilities)? The early adopters for this stuff are usually the hardcore a/v guys who would NEVER use a console to play movies. Personally though I think Blu Ray will win it... eventually. Moreso if they can drop the ridiculous prices on the players.

[soniqstylz]

Exactly how I feel. How can Sony even expect to win when you have to pay $500 and whatnot for a standalone player that's technically inferior to the PS3 (in terms of speed and capabilities)? The early adopters for this stuff are usually the hardcore a/v guys who would NEVER use a console to play movies. Personally though I think Blu Ray will win it... eventually. Moreso if they can drop the ridiculous prices on the players.

Samsung standalone player is now sub-$300.

Panasonic is bundling Blu-Ray players with plasma TV's.

[Julius Caro]

..which is why Sony has been having sales like "buy a PS3 on Amazon, get three Blu-Ray movies instantly", or including Spiderman 3 with the 40 GB, Talladega Nights with the US launch, Casino Royale with the PAL launch, etc.

Supposedly, PAL's will get the new Harry Potter release with PS3 purchase starting in January.

I think more than anything, Sony needs to educate that the PS3 is a very good Blu-Ray player, not a really cheap one that will break if you use it (like PS2 = DVD player). It's actually made to be a Blu-Ray player, will be 1.1 (and eventually 2.0)-compliant soon.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/playstation-3/p...onth-331399.php

So, Toshiba giving away 12 titles with the purchase of a player is nothing?

I guess BOGO sales are counted, but those movies that come free are not. Or at least that how it should work. BDA/HD DVD promotion group can claim they sell more players than the other, attach ratios, etc... but in terms of software sales, Nielsen is the word. And I doubt they count those movies that are given away for free.

I agree with the PS3 being an excellent BD player. PS2 was a piece of crap

Seeing this happen is not really unexpected. It's common here for movie retailers to not even carry HD-DVD movies. Their HD sections implicitly being the Blu-ray section. At the same time, Blu-ray is currently outselling HD-DVD at 3:1 as usual, since probably around a year back at least. :p

The market penetration of the PS3 as a HD player is so big that I don't really see HD-DVD putting up much of a competition at this point.

And it doesn't matter if this is mostly due to the PS3 (probably) or anything else. Once more have picked up the format, for any reason, standalone Blu-ray players will have an easier time in the future if the PS3 interest would wane, because it'll be far more common to see retailers carrying the format already.

I can't say I'm annoyed either. I like the Blu-ray format, despite having regional locking. It was just a minor inconvenience with DVD's and I'm used to dealing with that part. Otherwise, it really shines in recording technology where I haven't seen many HD-DVD recorders putting up a fight for a competitive cost with recordable discs at around 60% the cost of a BD-R one. If one is supposed to be "against" them just because Sony back the format, well that always felt a little childish to me. Microsoft supporting HD-DVD hasn't exactly got a heavenly track record in public relations either.

That's exactly what's happening in spain too.

Sure, they don't sell that much. But the whole "blu-ray is the next thing" is there. The other day I was in a store, they had a lot of BD titles (never had seen so many in my life!!). Like.. 4 of 5 rows 6-7 columns of blurays. I was like .. WHOA! how expensive!! xD

The 10 HD-DVD titles they had were behind the counter.. you know, where you ask for that expensive collectors' edition Lord of the Rings box set.

[soniqstylz]

So, Toshiba giving away 12 titles with the purchase of a player is nothing?

Not at all. My point was that Sony's bundling of Blu-Ray movies is to emphasise and educate the gamers that it does play Blu-Ray movies, and does it well. Simply that.

[Boz]

So, Toshiba giving away 12 titles with the purchase of a player is nothing?

I guess BOGO sales are counted, but those movies that come free are not. Or at least that how it should work. BDA/HD DVD promotion group can claim they sell more players than the other, attach ratios, etc... but in terms of software sales, Nielsen is the word. And I doubt they count those movies that are given away for free.

I agree with the PS3 being an excellent BD player. PS2 was a piece of crap

It's not like that.. BDA and fans would like it to be but it really doesn't paint the real picture.

Unless discs are given away by the retailer, they would be counted as sale, but if they are bundled in or given by the manufacturer through a rebate it is not counted.

Of course, the numbers can be heavily skewed by BOGOs... Here let me give you an example how Blu-Ray titles are being sold at retailers now. The retailers have received specific instructions to ring buy one get one free as 2 movies for half off instead of 1 sold and 1 free. The reason for that is because Nielsen would not count the other one as a sale thus there would be no purpose in the discount for the BDA. A recent example was when I bought this past weekend a few BDA titles and I heard people working at the registers talking about how they need to ring it up. Same deal at Best Buy.

Also, Walmart is not included in those numbers either. You would imagine that a chain with over 3700 retail locations would have "some" influence on the sales right? Don't forget at least 100k people shops at Walmart who were going there to buy a cheap HD DVD as well as $199 HD DVD now.. they are most likely to buy at least 1-2 titles there in addition to free movies. Also, for Blu-Ray the real demographic that buys stuff will certainly not go to Walmart. That's why you will see more stuff sold for Blu-Ray at Best Buy then Walmart. Simple.

Another thing is that even if everything was to be counted, it is quite obvious that Blu-Ray should have some lead due to a much large base of capable players, though 1.38:1 in the last week suggest that the state of Blu-Ray is not really that bright. Over 3x more Blu-Ray capable hardware and the sales ratio stretches between 1:1 to 2:1.

Except for Amazon really, HD DVD Group did not have a BOGO. Of course, I hate that crap because I wanted to get cheap movies, but this is also partially the reason why Blu-Ray holds a software advantage with Neilsen thus showing you that at this small percentage of sales for HD formats compared to DVD sales is completely negligable not to mention easily influenced with sales and simple reason is because both formats sell only about 50-100k discs a week at the most and that's ALL TOGETHER.

I've said it numerous times, wait until we get into millions of discs sold. When neither side can influence these numbers with giveaways and how they charge for movies at the checkout, and we'll have a much clearer picture.

For now, these numbers are just worthless and a talking point for a format that has nothing else going for it but that.

[giantpotato]

It's not like that.. BDA and fans would like it to be but it really doesn't paint the real picture.

Unless discs are given away by the retailer, they would be counted as sale, but if they are bundled in or given by the manufacturer through a rebate it is not counted.

Of course, the numbers can be heavily skewed by BOGOs... Here let me give you an example how Blu-Ray titles are being sold at retailers now. The retailers have received specific instructions to ring buy one get one free as 2 movies for half off instead of 1 sold and 1 free. The reason for that is because Nielsen would not count the other one as a sale thus there would be no purpose in the discount for the BDA. A recent example was when I bought this past weekend a few BDA titles and I heard people working at the registers talking about how they need to ring it up. Same deal at Best Buy.

Also, Walmart is not included in those numbers either. You would imagine that a chain with over 3700 retail locations would have "some" influence on the sales right? Don't forget at least 100k people shops at Walmart who were going there to buy a cheap HD DVD as well as $199 HD DVD now.. they are most likely to buy at least 1-2 titles there in addition to free movies. Also, for Blu-Ray the real demographic that buys stuff will certainly not go to Walmart. That's why you will see more stuff sold for Blu-Ray at Best Buy then Walmart. Simple.

Another thing is that even if everything was to be counted, it is quite obvious that Blu-Ray should have some lead due to a much large base of capable players, though 1.38:1 in the last week suggest that the state of Blu-Ray is not really that bright. Over 3x more Blu-Ray capable hardware and the sales ratio stretches between 1:1 to 2:1.

Except for Amazon really, HD DVD Group did not have a BOGO. Of course, I hate that crap because I wanted to get cheap movies, but this is also partially the reason why Blu-Ray holds a software advantage with Neilsen thus showing you that at this small percentage of sales for HD formats compared to DVD sales is completely negligable not to mention easily influenced with sales and simple reason is because both formats sell only about 50-100k discs a week at the most and that's ALL TOGETHER.

I've said it numerous times, wait until we get into millions of discs sold. When neither side can influence these numbers with giveaways and how they charge for movies at the checkout, and we'll have a much clearer picture.

For now, these numbers are just worthless and a talking point for a format that has nothing else going for it but that.

Have you ever purchased anything else that was 2 for 1? This is how it's always done. Do you think they'll only ring one up and let you walk out the door with another with no record of it leaving the store? Just the other day I bought some deodorant that was 2 for 1 and each was actually half-price. Is this some big conspiracy by Degree to inflate their deodorant sales statistics?

If there are no statistics for Wal-Mart why are you so confidant Wal-Mart is playing such a big role in HD DVD sales? For all you know they're selling 2x Blu-Ray discs as compared to HD DVD. If people who buy Blu-Ray are not in Wal-mart's demographic, then why would they sell Blu-Ray/PS3 Games/PS3's at all. Surely their valuable shelf space could be used on some other products which move more easily.

[Ji@nBing]

Have you ever purchased anything else that was 2 for 1? This is how it's always done. Do you think they'll only ring one up and let you walk out the door with another with no record of it leaving the store? Just the other day I bought some deodorant that was 2 for 1 and each was actually half-price. Is this some big conspiracy by Degree to inflate their deodorant sales statistics?

If there are no statistics for Wal-Mart why are you so confidant Wal-Mart is playing such a big role in HD DVD sales? For all you know they're selling 2x Blu-Ray discs as compared to HD DVD. If people who buy Blu-Ray are not in Wal-mart's demographic, then why would they sell Blu-Ray/PS3 Games/PS3's at all. Surely their valuable shelf space could be used on some other products which move more easily.

Yep. That's the way 2 for 1 is always done. Go and buy something else that is 2 for 1 and you'll see.

[soniqstylz]

Of course, the week that HD-DVD had their BOGO, was the week that Blu-ray won 73:27.

And of course, you're also failing to mention the bundles that HD-DVD has with "Buy a player, get 5 movies in-store" deals that they do. Those are also counted in sales, the same way - person buys the movies and player, movies are rung up as "sold for $0.00". Match that up with However, I don't believe the additional 5 you get via mail-in offer are counted.

The BOGO's come from the studios, anyway. The latest BOGO is from Warner. Take that for what it's worth.

Back to the original post, the Business Weekly article is now being quoted in the New York Times. HD-DVD backers had better hope Warner comes with a similar PR "we are remaining neutral for the forseeable future" quote soon.

http://www.nytimes.com/paidcontent/PCORG_3...?ref=technology

Edited December 11, 2007 by soniqstylz

[TheNay]

You aren't the only one. I'm just sick of hearing "DVD."

Same here! LOL!

[soniqstylz]

What about DVDA?

[goji]

^ dead lol. It live on with with some music aficionados.

[soniqstylz]

^ dead lol. It live on with with some music aficionados.

Different DVDA. Not DVD-Audio. Double-v*g**al-double-a**l.

[Fabian-]

At this point I don't really care who wins...I just want to have a winning format, I want to buy a damn player! :p

[goji]

Double-v*g**al-double-a**l.

Ok I'm lost

[Dogan]

It is indeed winning. Check out the numbers for last week (this weeks numbers aren't finalized yet).

[Lewism]

Well that's 3 to 1 :o

[soniqstylz]

Rumor is 61 / 39 blu, on the week of Bourne Ultimatum and an HD-DVD BOGO.

And the Simpsons Movie is out this week.

Blade Runner Numbers should be interesting as well.

[Lasker]

I would like to know when this HD war will be over so I can buy a HD player that will stay supported for a long time.

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

I would like to know when this HD war will be over so I can buy a HD player that will stay supported for a long time.

wont be over for a long time. may as well pick one or both and enjoy it.

[goji]

^ Pretty much. I'm now waiting for both to die and a new format to be announced within two years that exceeds their performance and tech specs. And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

[Malisk]

But then again, these stores haven't seen my patent pending storage technology with gel packs. :shifty:

[Dogan]

I've said it numerous times, wait until we get into millions of discs sold. When neither side can influence these numbers with giveaways and how they charge for movies at the checkout, and we'll have a much clearer picture.

Oh really?

I thought what you said was:

I can't wait for official numbers closer to the end of this year. It's gonna be cryin' time for Blu-Ray I guarantee it. Boz.

It has been "cryin' time" for HD-DVD the entire year, month after month, week after week.

Quite the guarantee there. LOL

I have a feeling you regret making that statement Boz.