Opera Software files EU antitrust complaint against Microsoft


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Opera Software has filed an antitrust suit against Microsoft in the European Union, accusing it of stifling competition by tying its Internet Explorer Web browser to Windows, the Norwegian company said Thursday.

Opera Software has filed an antitrust suit against Microsoft in the European Union, accusing it of stifling competition by tying its Internet Explorer Web browser to Windows, the Norwegian company said Thursday.The complaint, which was filed with the European Commission on Wednesday, says Microsoft is abusing its dominant position in the desktop PC market by offering only Internet Explorer as a standard part of Windows, and hindering interoperability by not following accepted standards with IE.

Opera is asking the Commission, the executive branch of the European Union, to force Microsoft to unbundle IE from Windows, or include other browsers as a standard part of its operating system. It also wants it to require Microsoft to adhere to industry standards with its Web browser.

The issue of standards is seen as important because if all Web browsers do not use the same standards, Web site developers are likely to design their Web sites to work with the most widely-used browser, which is Internet Explorer. That gives people a disincentive to use other browsers.

Microsoft's spokesman in Brussels did not immediately have a comment on the lawsuit. The company has argued in the past that consumers benefit from its tight integration of IE and Windows.

Opera said it filed the complaint on behalf of all consumers who are tired of having a monopolist make choices for them.

Source: http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,140528-pg,1/article.html

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That's how a single well respected small company making the best browser lose all respect in one fell swoop with me.

Agreed, they should have used the money on advertising rather than lawyers :no:

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Microsoft shouldnt remove IE from Windows...if people or users needs they can download anyother freely available browsers from web & use it...

Why do people come against Microsoft (only reason is market share), didnt Mac bundle Safari?

its like ford car shouldnt have a steering bundled with its new manufactured car!!

arent we paying for each windows? so obviously MS will bundle it....if you dont want you are ready to have free good OS like ubuntu which wont have IE right?

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Oh great, looks like we'll be seeing another version of windows that everyone will avoid like the plague. Mozilla did quite well for themselves with Firefox, in a "stifled market" none the less.

Oh and while you're at it Opera, why don't you file suit against Apple and get them to unbundle Safari? :rolleyes:

And lastly, i'd like to know how Joe Bloggs is going to download ANYTHING, let alone your browser without IE pre-installed. (Which if i remember correctly, Can IE7 not just be uninstalled under Vista once you've got your chosen browser?)

EDIT: I'm not sure but isen't Firefox totally out of the question of being ridistributed with a closed-source product due to the GPL? If so that just leaves one other major brows... Oh i see, how sneaky of you Opera.

Edited by Athernar
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non-tech savvy users are not going to download opera just because IE isnt on thier machines. theyre going to download IE.

the IE engine is part of the operating system anyway, its not just used for the web browser.

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That's how a single well respected small company making the best browser lose all respect in one fell swoop with me.

Even though i love the browser, i have to agree. And i agree with what Colin-uk is saying.

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non-tech savvy users are not going to download opera just because IE isnt on thier machines. theyre going to download IE.

the IE engine is part of the operating system anyway, its not just used for the web browser.

Agreed, like all the people with Windows N wanted to know how to download WMP. If this goes through i feel sorry for all the non tech-savy users who get confused, and stressed over why they can't get online.

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people seem to be missing the point and focusing on the unbundling part alone.

you are all ignoring microsoft's blatant disregard for open standards and even their constant attempts at undermining standards and replace them with their own proprietary technologies.

this is what opera is fighting against.

so opera's complaint is two-fold:

1- abuse of monopoly power to prevent other browsers from competing

2- undermining open standards, also making it really hard for other browsers to compete

this thing will benefit all other browsers as well if it goes through, not just opera.

those who think opera should have spent the money on advertising, consider the following:

1- this gives opera lots of pr (money well spent then according to you)

2- opera probably won't have to spend a lot of money on this anyway since it's all up to eu now

and apple is not a convicted monopolist. they are also very much standard friendly guys, at least as far as browsers are concerned. safari is amazingly standards compliant.

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and apple is not a convicted monopolist. they are also very much standard friendly guys, at least as far as browsers are concerned. safari is amazingly standards compliant.

Interesting... some of my CSS and JS that work on most, if not all, other browsers doesn't work right on Safari, and some of my PNG images that, again, look right on most, if not all, other browsers doesn't on Safari. Most notably my Ajax drop downs have quirky behavior. Score one for the kids! *swish*

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I understand that microsoft includes IE and it gives IE huge advantage.. but people expect certain things to work out of the box when they buy a OS.. and Internet Browser / Media player is a part of it.. Many people just use computer for these reasons.. What if, MS stop distributing IE and ship windows with opera?.. Firefox will have the same complain..

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@kingroach..

opera is not asking to be THE browser to be bundled, just to make it easier to offer something other than msie. firefox would benefit from this too.

@Mathachew..

anecdotal evidence is fun and all, but safari is well known in web dev circles as a standards compliant browser, and apple is actively involved in open standard. recent safari builds have support for new stuff like css3, placing it ahead of the likes of opera and firefox in those areas. safari, like all other browsers, has bugs, but that doesn't mean that it isn't one of the most standards compliant browsers there is.

Edited by d_ralphie
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I don't care what Microsoft bundle with their operating system personally, even if it does make IE the de facto web browser. What I do care about is their blatant disregard for open standards in such a strong market position. Its about time they were called up on this. IE7 wasn't a big enough step forward imo.

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Well ... I USED to use Opera, now I don't. Farewell to thee Opera.

Not liking the company's policy is fine, but ditching Opera because of this lawsuit is funny. It is still the same browser, the company's lawsuits won't change your online experience.

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Let me get this straight. So, Opera Software is filing a complaint against MS for bundling IE with Windows. Now, how would one get Opera if IE were to no longer to be included in Windows?

The problem could create a time paradox, the results of which could start a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space time continuum, and destroy the entire universe! Granted, that's a worse case scenario. The destruction might in fact be very localized, limited to our own galaxy.

...or maybe I'm just looking too much into this. :dizzy:

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people seem to be missing the point and focusing on the unbundling part alone.

Because unbundling it from Windows would effectively stop "normal" users for using the internet full stop, without IE they would not even be able to browse the internet for another browser, regardless of if they would be downloading IE.

1- abuse of monopoly power to prevent other browsers from competing

This alledged "abuse of monopoly power" diden't stop Mozilla from seizing 13.49% browser (market?) share in Q3-7 Source a 13.49% which while dwarfed by IE's 81.63% also dwarfs Opera's tiny 0.66%, which is only bigger than Netscape's 0.06% share.

Heck, even Safari has a relatively huge market share when compared to Opera.

2- undermining open standards, also making it really hard for other browsers to compete

IE has had a very poor track record of web standard compliance, and they are working on improving compliance even more, but regardless i do not see how this harms the other browsers, would not poor standards compliance not be a feature that would entice users (That know or even care about standards.) to stop using IE and use XYZ browser?

I personally just think that this is a case of "People aren't using our product, lets blame it entirely on the big guys".

Edited by Athernar
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The majority of people who browse the web dont care about web standards.

MS are not forcing people to code for thier browser.

nobody has cared about standards before (except web developers) I think Opera just added that part to thier complaint because they know the first part probably wont hold up very well, imo.

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I think Opera just added that part to thier complaint because they know the first part probably wont hold up very well, imo.

that's clearly nonsense since opera has always been all about open standards and has been spending big money promoting them for many years.

Now, how would one get Opera if IE were to no longer to be included in Windows?

another browser could be bundled instead. dell would add the browser of their choice, etc.

Because unbundling it from Windows would effectively stop "normal" users for using the internet full stop

nope, because you can still bundle other browsers.

This alledged "abuse of monopoly power" diden't stop Mozilla from seizing 13.49% browser (market?) share in Q3-7 Source a 13.% which while dwarfed by IE's 81.63% also dwarfs Opera's tiny 0.66%, which is only bigger than Netscape's 0.06% share.

you said it, ie still has more than 80% of the market and microsoft is still working on undermining the open web with stuff like silverlight.

browser stats are useless anyway:

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archive...eter_backw.html

http://virtuelvis.com/archives/2005/05/statistics-nonsense

and just the other day net applications changed their stats completely. before the change opera had almost 2% or so according to them (including opera mini). so the stats from one site basically changed overnight. that's how reliable browser stats are.

IE has had a very poor track record of web standard compliance, and they are working on improving compliance even more

really?

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roadmap/arc...ris_wilson.html

microsoft wants to replace open standards with proprietary stuff like silverlight.

i do not see how this harms the other browsers

other browser vendors have to spend a lot of time reverse-engineering msie to make sites work because sites rely on proprietary, undocumented microsoft stuff a lot of the time.

but seriously, if you didn't even know how microsoft's behavior has broken the web, why are you even arguing about it?

would not poor standards compliance not be a feature that would entice users

users don't notice standards. they only notice whether a site works or not.

I personally just think that this is a case of "People aren't using our product, lets blame it entirely on the big guys".

you are saying that microsoft is without blame? clearly you need to look up history and how microsoft used its market power and proprietary tech to force competitors out of the market.

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If you get windows without IE you wouldn't be albe to download anything, not even Opera. You would be stuck until you get a browser out of a CD or something. That is youst plain stupid.

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If you get windows without IE you wouldn't be albe to download anything, not even Opera. You would be stuck until you get a browser out of a CD or something. That is youst plain stupid.

you are missing the point.

the point is that something else could be bundled instead. or several browsers could be bundled, and the user offered a choice.

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that's clearly nonsense since opera has always been all about open standards and has been spending big money promoting them for many years.

Wait, clearly nonsense? So because Opera has a huge stake in open standards, it's something to complain about when another company isn't doing it? Standards compliance has nothing to do with browser integration within an OS, at that point in their arguments, they're just complaining to further their agenda because it doesn't line up with this:

Opera said it filed the complaint on behalf of all consumers who are tired of having a monopolist make choices for them.

As a developer, it utterly, horrendously and stupidly sucks that I spend as much time as I do to make things work in IE, but I agree with Colin, they threw that in there because their initial argument probably won't hold up. I'd love for IE to be more standards compliant, but they're trying to run Microsoft for Microsoft with that second argument.

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So because Opera has a huge stake in open standards, it's something to complain about when another company isn't doing it?

that's what opera is doing - complaining that microsoft refuses to follow open standards, and using its market power to kill competitoon.

Standards compliance has nothing to do with browser integration within an OS.

no, but who said it did?

I agree with Colin, they threw that in there because their initial argument probably won't hold up.

you agree because you are unaware of how important open standards are to opera.

also, the initial argument about bundling has already been held up in court, forcing microsoft to unbundle windows media player and pay up. so the foundation of your illogical and incorrect claim about opera crumbles.

the fact is that opera has always fought tooth and nail for standards. to think that this is merely a secondary though to them is an insult to anyone who believes in open standards, and an insult to anyone who is the least bit informed about what's going on.

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