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[official] HD DVD Rumors and Speculations

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Coldgunner    12
nonsense, it only means that they will be replacing Venturer with Toshiba A3s at $100 instead of $199 for Venturer..but you are free to deduce whatever you like I guess..

was that really necessary? I only posted my opinion.

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Boz    1,324
was that really necessary? I only posted my opinion.

what was not necessary? I said you have the right to conclude whatever you wish..nothing else...

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giantpotato    296
Venturer players are on clearance as the new strategy creates a problem at their prices. No arguing there. Though Alco IS building A3 players for Toshiba (Alco is Venturer). It really isn't an issue though when you can get $100 HD-A3, $140 HD-A30 and $200 HD-A35 now. All amazing players.

And this is one of the reasons HD DVD doesn't have much support from third-party concumer electronics manufacturers. Other companies will not support a format where they can't make a profit on their players. If Venturer is having trouble moving players at $199 why would other companies get in the game?

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Boz    1,324
And this is one of the reasons HD DVD doesn't have much support from third-party concumer electronics manufacturers. Other companies will not support a format where they can't make a profit on their players. If Venturer is having trouble moving players at $199 why would other companies get in the game?

I don't care as I get great stuff for cheap, but even so and it's not entirely true. Sure, Toshiba would hold the low end. That's the 1080i player. If CE companies supported HD DVD as they should have in the beginning as HD DVD was first fully finished format to come to the market that offers more to the consumer and has better features they wouldn't have problems. Now, they've dug their own graves with Blu-Ray foolishly thinking that people will mass spend money on $400 players. They will soon realize that HD DVD will force them to push players at sub $300 and this whole ridiculous game could've been avoided if they weren't so greedy.

There is no reason for CE companies not to sell their HD DVD players at $300 even now. They would sell a bunch. I know I would buy a $300 fully featured HD DVD player. So that whole point is moot. The real reason is because they didn't want to pay royalties to Toshiba but get the money themselves. Well if by any chance Blu-Ray loses, they'll end up paying the royalties to Toshiba anyways and not only that, but will have to price their players at $200 or lower to compete, but the only one who they would have to blame would be themselves.

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soniqstylz    1,048
Now, they've dug their own graves with Blu-Ray foolishly thinking that people will mass spend money on $400 players.

NPD would have something to say about that.

Week Blu-ray HD DVD

1/5 15,257 14,558

1/12 21,770 1,758

1/19 16,496 8,639

1/12 was the first week after Warner's defection. 1/19 is the week of Toshiba's price slash. HD-DVD numbers bumped, but to only half of the sales of the $400 Blu-ray players (these are standalone numbers, not including the PS3 or 360 add-on).

Considering that I know that you (and other HD-DVD fans on here and other boards) have mentioned getting a 2nd player at these prices, how many of these are first-time buyers?

And then there's this blog opinion piece which is kind of funny in it's own way:

http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/01/hey-hd-dvd-its.html

Along the same lines:

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/html...rticle_ID=11977

And this:

http://www.dvdfile.com/index.php?option=co...iew&id=6496

And this:

http://www.dvdreview.com/coffee/pages/524.html

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Boz    1,324
NPD would have something to say about that.

Week Blu-ray HD DVD

1/5 15,257 14,558

1/12 21,770 1,758

1/19 16,496 8,639

1/12 was the first week after Warner's defection. 1/19 is the week of Toshiba's price slash. HD-DVD numbers bumped, but to only half of the sales of the $400 Blu-ray players (these are standalone numbers, not including the PS3 or 360 add-on).

First of all 360 add-ons should be included as they are being bought as standalone players. The fact they need Xbox 360 to work is irreleevant. But let's say those numbers don't matter much because, well they are $179. I don't see a lot of people buying them at that price.

Second, the numbers you see for HD DVD are pure SALES. That means people come in, give their money and buy the player. Blu-Ray STILL has promotions where they give away free players. What is there hard to understand. If you get something for free with the purchase of something else how can you count that as "SALE". There's a reason why Nielsen doesn't count free discs with players in counts because it's not a SALE.

Sony, Sharp, Panasonic acount for more then 80% of Blu-Ray numbers with their giveaways. Also, the numbers shown did not include online retailers like Amazon and similar that simply annihilate Blu-Ray standlone players.. Hell the only player ever being sold now is the Panasonic BD-30 one as people have realized that Profile 1.0 stuff is a plain ripoff.

Do you realize that HD DVD increased sales 800% percent if you I use the same reasoning as BDA did and Blu-Ray sales dropped 25% from last week. HD DVD IS DEVASTATING in sales right?

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soniqstylz    1,048
First of all 360 add-ons should be included as they are being bought as standalone players. The fact they need Xbox 360 to work is irreleevant. But let's say those numbers don't matter much because, well they are $179. I don't see a lot of people buying them at that price.

Second, the numbers you see for HD DVD are pure SALES. That means people come in, give their money and buy the player. Blu-Ray STILL has promotions where they give away free players. What is there hard to understand. If you get something for free with the purchase of something else how can you count that as "SALE". There's a reason why Nielsen doesn't count free discs with players in counts because it's not a SALE.

Sony, Sharp, Panasonic acount for more then 80% of Blu-Ray numbers with their giveaways. Also, the numbers shown did not include online retailers like Amazon and similar that simply annihilate Blu-Ray standlone players.. Hell the only player ever being sold now is the Panasonic BD-30 one as people have realized that Profile 1.0 stuff is a plain ripoff.

Do you realize that HD DVD increased sales 800% percent if you I use the same reasoning as BDA did and Blu-Ray sales dropped 25% from last week. HD DVD IS DEVASTATING in sales right?

"Source?" for:

* Amazon not counted by NPD

* Nielsen not counting HD-DVD's "in-store" giveaways as sales. For instance, when Wal-mart had a sale to get 15 Blu-rays for free with the purchase of an 80GB PS3, the ten "in-store" Blu-rays were counted as a sale for $0.00. I'm sure it's the same with the 2+ HD-DVD's given away with purchase of player "in-store".

* 80% of standalone players are giveaways -- which, by the way, wouldn't that make sense for Toshiba, an HDTV manufacturer, to do something similar. Wouldn't it make sense with a lot of HDTV's being sold up through this week, to get players into houses, since they'd only have to cut $100 - $200 off the price to bundle it anyway? Wouldn't that be consumer-friendly?

* HD-DVD standalone sales are annihilating Blu-ray standalones on Amazon

Anyone else find mild humor that MicroTosh is putting cash in Fox's pocket even after they supposedly led MicroTosh to the alter, then ran back to the BDA with Warner in tow? (buying Super Bowl ads at $2+ mil each).

I wasn't quoting trends, merely pointing out that after the price slash, HD-DVD players could only muster half of what Blu-ray players could do, considering you said that the market wouldn't allow for $400 players.

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kak    0
First of all 360 add-ons should be included as they are being bought as standalone players. The fact they need Xbox 360 to work is irreleevant.
Bend the argument in a way it fits for you. This is laughable and you know it. It hardly is a standalone player since it is an add-on in its name itself.
Second, the numbers you see for HD DVD are pure SALES. That means people come in, give their money and buy the player. Blu-Ray STILL has promotions where they give away free players. What is there hard to understand. If you get something for free with the purchase of something else how can you count that as "SALE". There's a reason why Nielsen doesn't count free discs with players in counts because it's not a SALE.
Who cares? Its another BD player in a house. I don't care how it gets there as long as it is there. You tell stories about people not being able to afford BD. Ok, they can afford the premium price for a HDTV and HD cable, but cannot afford a HDM player. But wait, you complain when a CE company gives the players as a reward for buying their product? Hilarious!
Sony, Sharp, Panasonic acount for more then 80% of Blu-Ray numbers with their giveaways. Also, the numbers shown did not include online retailers like Amazon and similar that simply annihilate Blu-Ray standlone players.. Hell the only player ever being sold now is the Panasonic BD-30 one as people have realized that Profile 1.0 stuff is a plain ripoff.
I want solid proof on the entire BS that 80% of the numbers are give-aways. Can you get anymore plane silly with your numbers? Also, how is Profile 1.0 a ripoff? Do the movies all of a sudden fail to work? What about the HD-A2? It won't do 1080p and won't play combo discs correctly. I was ripped off! At least 1.0 players will play the disc itself.
Do you realize that HD DVD increased sales 800% percent if you I use the same reasoning as BDA did and Blu-Ray sales dropped 25% from last week. HD DVD IS DEVASTATING in sales right?
Again, source. I don't find it unbelievable [using your logic] since they are almost 'giving them away!!!' Besides, people need HD-DVD players right now to pick up the slack of their rip-off A2 on top of buying movies from the only two major studios that won't go neutral. But you know, those 'back room deals' are keeping them from doing so, so I guess we'll need the players for a little longer.

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Boz    1,324
"Source?" for:

* Amazon not counted by NPD

Here you go, I bolded it for you:

The NPD figures did not include Sony's PlayStation 3 or Microsoft's HD DVD add-on for the Xbox 360 -- only standalone players.

Baker wouldn't get specific -- since NPD normally never even comments on weekly sales data -- but said there was some drop in HD DVD player sales. For its part, the HD DVD Promotional Group told BetaNews the weekly sales data was from before the HD DVD player price drop Toshiba announced last week.

Baker did provide BetaNews some insight as to how NPD counts sales. It receives its data from point-of-sale systems from a number of retail outlets across the United States. He would not say how many retailers send data to NPD, but said it was "double digits."

NPD's numbers do not include online sales from the likes of Amazon, where Toshiba's HD-A3 HD DVD player is the number one seller in the DVD player category and number 14 in all of electronics. By contrast, standalone Blu-ray players do not make the electronics list.

However, Toshiba marketing VP Jodi Sally believes stats for the week ended Jan. 19 provide a more accurate picture of the formats than the previous week. The manufacturer?s players pricing rebates ended on Jan. 5, she explains, before Toshiba sales were again extended starting Jan. 13. This days-long sales void hurt HD DVD?s usual pricing competitiveness over its Blu-ray set-top rivals, which, when sold separately, are generally double the price of Toshiba?s entry-level HD-A3.

?All of our promotions had ended at that time,? said Sally. ?But if you look at our unit sales at key retailers for the first week of our price moves, Toshiba sales are twice the rate of our average weekly sales during 2007.?

SaToshiba data covers Amazon.com, an important high-def hardware seller but an account that is excluded from NPD?s primarily bricks-and-mortar-based weekly data weekly data.

Nielsen not counting HD-DVD's "in-store" giveaways as sales.ys as sales.

Of course it's not counting, just as it doesn't count Blu-Ray ones. Everything coming in the package or with the rebate from manufacturer is not counted as sale. I don't think we need to post a link every time when it was confirmed a gazillion times by Nielsen, all you need to do is googl80% of standalone players are giveaways

ys

Here you go, just do simple math based on what

:
So what went on the week ending January 12 that led to such high numbers in Blu-ray standalone player sales? Bundling deals with HDTVs, eSharp Blu-ray players accounted for over 30% of sales, as they were offered free to buyers of the company's LCD televisions.televisionalso accounting for one-third of salesird of sales -- had a similar $400-off deal for Blu-ray players when buyinPanasonic, like Sharp, offered a free Blu-ray player and made up for the remaining third of units soldf units sold. Samsung Blu-ray sales were almost non-existent, as the company did not offer any special deals to TV buyers[/qHD-DVD standalone sales are annihilating Blu-ray standalones on Amazones on Amazon

Of course they are, when you have players that are constantly among top 5 spots in DVD players and at least 1 in the top 5 in ALL electronics on Amazon and Blu-Ray players on ocassion break top 100, you can freely say that HD DVD is KILLING Blu-Ray in sales on Amazon. In addition you can read the first quote as it shows you the reality.

Interview with NPD:

http://www.betanews.com/article/NPD_Free_B...onth/1201203983

Edited by Boz

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+Audioboxer    2,876

Blu Ray software is making a kill on Amazon though.... You know the content you buy to play on your HD player?

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

salesrank-time-1-1-recent144.jpg

The software is what makes things lucrative for the studios/retailers. Not Toshiba only massively reduced players that lose money on sale (The really cheap ones can not be making a profit).

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kak    0

On a more serious note, I wonder why there is a dip at the end of the chart. HD-DVD player sales should be up, resulting in more software sales. Weird.

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TruckWEB    474

No Super Bowl Ads from Toshiba and HD-DVD....

http://www.usatoday.com/money/advertising/...nterstitialskip

I don't know who said that Toshiba where to place one ad during the Super Bowl, but it seems like they pulled the plug on it (or that USA Today forgot about it).

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+StevoFC    21

Nah, there definitely wasn't one. Atleast not in my region.

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DrCheese    103

From what I've read online, it seems that Toshiba only brought local advertising and not national advertising, so it didn't show in some markets, others it was in SD only (lol) and in some it showed in full widescreen HD. It was apparently the one that they already have on the website so it wasn't a new one just for the superbowl.

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TruckWEB    474

That's it? And it was not even a national advertising!!! LOL, where do they think their going?

Once again, Toshiba showed how they fail at marketing. They had the biggest even, with allot of attention put to ads and.... :blink:

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KoL    36

That's a old ad. I have seen it before. I thought it was going to be something new.

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Mathachew    149
That's a old ad. I have seen it before. I thought it was going to be something new.

I didn't see the ad myself, but the person on YouTube claims that it's the commercial. I can't say either way.

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theyarecomingforyou    10,425

I love some of the minor statistics. Like Blade Runner on Blu-ray has a sales rank of 63 and on HD-DVD it's ranked 331, with Planet Earth 8/45 (again to Blu-ray). Also, Blu-ray is dominating the top 100 products:

salesrank100-time-1-1-recent144.jpg

@Boz - it's all very well commenting on Blu-ray players being given away for "free" with TVs (though they were still outselling HD-DVD before that) but Blu-ray is dominating HD-DVD and that doesn't even factor in the PS3, which is going from strength to strength (despite a distinct lack of AAA games titles). Also, HD-DVD players are being discounted heavily AND coming with upto 7 free movies so it's not like this is a one-sided discount campaign. And what do I keep reading online? More stores going Blu-ray exclusive and yet I don't see anything going the other way.

NEway, I'm still waiting for combo drives for PC to come down a bit in price.

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knightracer    2

Amazon has the XBox 360 HD DVD Addon for $79.99 today for their Gold Box offers.

Amazon Gold Box

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soniqstylz    1,048

Toshiba to drop HD-DVD?

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/conten...c4db951ac47ca5d

The format war has turned into a format death watch.

Toshiba is widely expected to pull the plug on its HD DVD format sometime in the coming weeks, reliable industry sources say, after a rash of retail defections that followed Warner Home Video's announcement in early January that it would support only the rival Blu-ray Disc format after May.

Officially, no decision has been made, insists Jodi Sally, vp of marketing for Toshiba America Consumer Products. "Based on its technological advancements, we continue to believe HD DVD is the best format for consumers, given the value and consistent quality inherent in our player offerings," she said.

But she hinted that something's in the air. "Given the market developments in the past month," she said, "Toshiba will continue to study the market impact and the value proposition for consumers, particularly in light of our recent price reductions on all HD DVD players."

Immediately after the Warner announcement, the HD DVD North American Promotional Group canceled its Consumer Electronics Show presentation. The following week, data collected by the NPD Group revealed Blu-ray took in 93% of all hardware sales for that week.

Toshiba subsequently fired back, drastically cutting its HD DVD player prices by as much as half, effective Jan. 15. But a hoped-for consumer sales surge never materialized; retail point-of-sale data collected by the NPD Group for the week ending Jan. 26 still showed Blu-ray Disc players ahead by a wide margin, 65% to 28%.

Software sales have declined as well. The latest Nielsen VideoScan First Alert sales data show the top-selling Blu-ray Disc title for the week, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment's "Across the Universe," sold more than three times as many copies the week ending Feb. 10 as the top HD DVD seller, Universal Studios Home Entertainment's "Elizabeth: The Golden Age." Blu-ray Disc titles also accounted for 81% of all high-def disc sales for the week, with HD DVD at just 19%.

Toshiba had been pitching its discounted HD DVD players toward the standard DVD crowd as well as high-def enthusiasts, noting in its ad message that the new players would make DVDs look a lot better as well. And as a last-ditch effort, the company ran an ad during the Super Bowl -- a 30-second spot that reportedly cost $2.7 million.

But in the end, sources say, the substantial loss Toshiba is incurring with each HD DVD player sold -- a figure sources say could be as high as several hundred dollars -- coupled with a series of high-profile retail defections has driven the company to at last concede defeat.

"An announcement is coming soon," said one source close to the HD DVD camp. "It could be a matter of weeks."

Microsoft is the other big player in the HD DVD equation. Last fall when Paramount Home Entertainment announced it was dropping its dual-format strategy and would release titles only in HD DVD, giving that side a brief resurgence, a pitch to journalists for interviews came from a Microsoft email address.

Several phone calls to Kevin Collins, Microsoft's normally accessible "HD DVD evangelist," were not returned. Nor were calls to Ken Graffeo, the Universal Studios Home Entertainment executive who doubles as co-president of the HD DVD North American Promotional Group.

When Warner abandoned HD DVD in January, the format was left with just two of the six major studios backing it, Universal Studios Home Entertainment and Paramount Home Entertainment. Blu-ray support among independents is rising. ADV Films, Tai Seng Entertainment, Topics Entertainment and National Geographic have all confirmed they are going Blu-ray exclusive, while more than one indie that was releasing titles just on HD DVD, including Surround Records and Opus Arte, will now offer Blu-ray as well.

This week, two key retailers, Best Buy and Netflix Inc., both got off the fence and threw their support behind Blu-ray exclusively, citing widespread studio support and consumer preference. Both companies said Warner's decision was a turning point in their strategies.

"We've listened to our customers, and we are responding," said Best Buy president and COO Brian Dunn.

Netflix spokesperson Steve Swasey said it appeared the format war had been won by Blu-ray for the benefit of everyone.

"We wanted to put an exclamation point behind that," he said.

Industry observers are closely watching Amazon, but there's been no movement, other than a 50% off sale for 150 HD DVD titles, including "Transformers," "Zodiac" and "Stardust."

Blockbuster Inc. last summer already decided to offer only Blu-ray Disc titles at its company-owned rental stores.

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Coldgunner    12

thats good, it'll end this silly format war and get down to the business of BD's coming down in price.

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DrCheese    103

Toshiba expected to announce death of HD-DVD tomorrow

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/18/toshiba...rrow-stop-sale/

Japanese publication Nikkei has it that Toshiba president Atsutoshi Nishida will be announcing the final discontinuation of HD DVD tomorrow, as well as halted sales of hardware and media by March (as in days from now). Apparently Toshiba will pull its units from retail shelves, but has no intention to give burned early adopters any refunds (no kidding?); it sounds like the ceasefire will include the bare PC drives as well, so those hoping to keep using HD DVD as a personal data storage medium probably won't have much luck

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kak    0

Odd they would pull units from the shelves. You'd figure they try to sell high-end players for cheap to those who have larger HD-DVD collections. I have a handful of titles and would probably buy an A30 before I ate my losses on the discs.

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DrCheese    103

Japanese news site Nikkei.net has just announced that Toshiba's plan is to immediately stop manufacturing all HD-DVD products (both players and recorders), and to stop selling them at end of March. The official announcement will happen at the press conference set for 5 PM Tokyo time. We'll be back with Toshiba's official statement as soon as it comes in.

source: http://www.digitalbits.com

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