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[official] Next Generation HD Format General Discussion

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Boz    1,324

According to the Sony insider from Blu-Ray.com, it seems that Blu-Ray will force consumers to upgrade to Blu-Ray whether they like it or not. This is what was already speculated by many but it seems that it will definitely happen.

Kill DVD, get all CE companies to stop production of DVD players and completely phase out DVD so you are forced to buy Blu-Ray.

Two-pronged attack??????.

1. Encourage all those consumer electronic companies that didn?t buy into a dead format (um, that would be all Toshiba, I guess) to sell as many Hi-Def TV?s to consumers as soon as possible to create a real infrastructure for high definition movies.

2. Planned obsolescence of DVD.

^ I will not elaborate, so don?t ask.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...postcount=1310

That's the start of the anti-consumer actions that I was afraid of. They will kill off DVD so you are forced to buy more expensive Blu-Ray.

Cheers for progr:no:I guess! :no:

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DrCheese    103

.....

This just in! New format is designed/expected to take old formats place in the market. The same thing happens in every product type in the world.

Of course it's going to happen, they will lower DVD player production and phase it out over time. Exactly the same would have happened with HD-DVD if it had won.

Give it up already, your really grasping at straws.

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Boz    1,324
.....

This just in! New format is designed/expected to take old formats place in the market. The same thing happens in every product type in the world.

Of course it's going to happen, they will lower DVD player production and phase it out over time. Exactly the same would have happened with HD-DVD if it had won.

Give it up already, your really grasping at straws.

Why do you have to kill off DVD? What's wrong with it? That's the whole point.

VHS was significantly inferior to DVD, thus phasing out. DVD is not significantly inferior to Blu-Ray. You don't find anti-consumer to completely kill off completely valid and good quality movies and players that cost $50-$100 and movies cost $6-$10, just because you can sell $30 movies and $400+ players?

THE ONLY reason to forcefully kill off DVD is to force consumers to pay more for Blu-Ray or have nothing basically. This was the plan all along and PantonMan's comment obviously shows that.

DVD is great, for 90% is actually good enough. To kill it off forcefully is absolutely anti-consumer.

But I'm sure you'll say how that is all ok I guess. Phasing out will happen much much sooner as many think because BDA and Sony needs to get their money back from paying off so many outlets to win this war.

What we are seeing here is that Blu-Ray has no intention of fighting against DVD again, they'll just get everyone to stop supporting it and now when we have one format it makes it much easier for them to do so as all those corporations are greedy bastards anyways.

I think that's pretty clear so far. All I can say is good luck to those who still find upscaled DVDs to look good enough (as they are pretty good).

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kak    0

Just quit already. You go from cheering about how great HD-DVD is and now you're saying DVD is good enough.

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Boz    1,324
Just quit already. You go from cheering about how great HD-DVD is and now you're saying DVD is good enough.

Are you actually reading what I"m saying... Quit what? I'm just quoting what Sony INSIDER is saying.

I just find it really funny how you people get offended by just repeating what Blu-Ray people are saying.

Everything I say is basically what that guy is hinting at. They WILL STOP DVD production. What's unclear?

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Minimoose    2

I didnt care who won between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, but if DVD is going to be cut off i will cry for hours and hours... I dont even want HD stuff due to the extra cost, i really dont see a substantial improvement from DVD to HD or Blu-Ray, especially if you have to pay three times more for the discs/player :( DVD's are definatly good enough for me :)

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DrCheese    103

yes... like every other new format or new tech in history. Why is this such a big deal? You know full well HD-DVD would have done exactly the same over time. Technology moves on and old stuff gets left behind. You are actually saying that companies should continue to support older tech forever and ever because any new stuff that forces consumers to buy new kit is "anti consumer" So much for progress.

You seemed content to compair the format war to video games, so using your example, companies should continue to forever support my Gamecube, the games are "Good enough" and to be forced to upgrade to the wii is "anti consumer" Do you see how stupid that sounds?

DVD won't disappear just like that, it will take time and studio's won't kill off DVD support (No not even the BDA could justify that) until the blu-ray install base is big enough and is selling equal or better than DVD's at that time. They will take measures to encourage it, i.e maybe releasing films slightly earlier on BD.

All you are doing is trying to spin up a non issue. People have known this since High def arrived.

Edited by DrCheese

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Boz    1,324
yes... like every other new format in history. Why is this such a big deal? You know full well HD-DVD would have done exactly the same over time. Technology moves on and old stuff gets left behind.

DVD won't disappear just like that, it will take time and studio's won't kill off DVD support (No not even the BDA could justify that) until the blu-ray install base is big enough and is selling equal or better than DVD's at that time. They will take measures to encourage it, i.e maybe releasing films slightly earlier on BD.

All you are doing is trying to spin up a non issue. People have known this since High def arrived.

I truly hope that it is like that as you say.. of course, that's your opinion too.. I"m kind of getting sick and tired of some people telling me how their opinion is more valid or right then mine.

There is an INCENTIVE to kill off DVD. The amount of money lost in the format war needs to be recouped somewhere and the time is ticking. They don't have 10 more years for Blu-Ray. They need to drop DVD more rapidly because not only that Blu-Ray is not that much of a jump like it was from VHS to DVD, but there's another danger coming right behind the corner and that's HD downloads. You can deny it all you want, but it's already here. In 2 years it will be dominant way of watching movies in your living room with millions and millions of Xbox 360s, PS3s and similar everywhere. I already use it as all new releases for movies are available in HD through Xbox Live. No late fees, no nothing. You have 14 days to watch the movie. You can get HD shows as well. More and more studio support is present. I think that now all studios are publishing for these download services. Apple TV HD is also showing up to be a good alternative with ALL studios supporting it.

HD DVD wouldn't have done the same thing. That's you talking right there. We've already seen what the HD DVD strategy was. Get combo discs out so people who even don't have players can get movies and slowly adopt HD players as they go along. Not to mention that the price of entry was SIGNIFICANTLY lower to begin with (the reasons why and what are completely irrelevant).

Again, I hope you are right, but by the statement of that Sony Insider, I'm pretty sure we will see DVD cutoff start quite possibly next year. EVERYBODY wants it at this point from corporate levels. Sony wants it so they can recoupe billions lost, studios want it because they need to start making more money and get people to switch so they pay more for movies, CE companies want it because it allows them to sell a player that will cost $200+ instead of $45-$60 for regular DVD player.

It is very clear what's going on. As I said, there is absolutely NO NEED to cut off DVD. Why? DVD is NOT VHS. On TVs below 40" upscaled DVDs look GREAT. What's incorrect about that statement. HD in general was meant to be applied to bigger displays, 720p is great for TVs from 40-50", 1080p is great for TVs above 50". Yet, somehow, everyone will be forced to buy into HD even if they have smaller TVs because why?

Blu-Ray/HD DVD are better then DVD, that's correct, but how much better? Through the eyes of regular consumer, noticable better but not to warrant 3 times more money. We are very clear to see that no?

I just hope that they are not allowed to kill of DVD. It is the pinnacle of this whole anti-consumer movement. If people can't see that, then I'm pretty sure it's hopeless to talk about that. I mean I don't really care personally, who should be worried about this is regular folks. I make 6 digit income every year, I don't care if I have to pay $300 for a player to watch movies, but I'm pretty sure A LOT of people out there will care.

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MGS4-SS    0

2 years until HD downloaded content is the way of watching movies? By the looks of ISP speed/cost rates to consumers, maybe in 12 years.

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+Audioboxer    2,876

The whole point in investing in an HD movie format is to supplement your HDTV.

In the UK just now HD broadcasts are **** poor. Sky has a handful of channels they make you bleed blood for in payment, and freeview will be lucky to see HD channels for years.

So for someone here purchasing an HDTV you really only get your "moneys worth" through investing in an HD medium as well.

That's why my parents are looking to get an HD player just now, my dad constantly says I payed 1k for this TV and I have "nothing to watch on it" - By nothing to watch, he means no HD stuff to show off how good the TV is.

Watching some of the UK SD broadcasts blown up on a 40" TV makes you cringe - They don't look bad, but it's not an indication at all of what your TV is capable of.

So for those saying "lets stick with DVD for another 5 years!!", I hope you really are kidding. Stay with DVD if you want, but ill be enjoying 720p/1080p movies on my TV - They look far better than an upscaled DVD - and so will 95% of the home market.

DVDs are dirt cheap as they have been out for faaaar longer than Blu Ray. All new technology costs more, but all new technology drops in price.

The BDA will drop Blu Ray software prices.

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Coldgunner    12
According to the Sony insider from Blu-Ray.com, it seems that Blu-Ray will force consumers to upgrade to Blu-Ray whether they like it or not. This is what was already speculated by many but it seems that it will definitely happen.

Kill DVD, get all CE companies to stop production of DVD players and completely phase out DVD so you are forced to buy Blu-Ray.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...postcount=1310

That's the start of the anti-consumer actions that I was afraid of. They will kill off DVD so you are forced to buy more expensive Blu-Ray.

Cheers for progress I guess! :no:

same way dvd killed vhs...

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+Audioboxer    2,876
2 years until HD downloaded content is the way of watching movies? By the looks of ISP speed/cost rates to consumers, maybe in 12 years.

Not a chance.

Some may, but only those who can afford the bandwith (if it's even available from their ISP) and who have fast enough connections.

HD content ranges from a couple of GB, up to double figures in GB's. A few movies, if not even 1 or 2 can practically cripple some folks monthly download limits - Not to mention take hours to download.

If you buy it in a physical format as well, theres no potential redownloading needed (hard drive wipe?), extras on the disc, and the option of 720p and 1080p playback - You upgrade your TV, or take the movie round to a mates who has a better TV.

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Boz    1,324
Not a chance.

Some may, but only those who can afford the bandwith (if it's even available from their ISP) and who have fast enough connections.

HD content ranges from a couple of GB, up to double figures in GB's. A few movies, if not even 1 or 2 can practically cripple some folks monthly download limits - Not to mention take hours to download.

If you buy it in a physical format as well, theres no potential redownloading needed (hard drive wipe?), extras on the disc, and the option of 720p and 1080p playback - You upgrade your TV, or take the movie round to a mates who has a better TV.

Takes hours to download what? It takes DAYS to get a rented movie from Netflix so? What's the point?

Obviously you are speaking as to the fact that you personally don't get or don't want to get Xbox Live marketplace.

HD movies are working just fine. Playback starts between 5-15 minutes but you can wait to download for a few hours in any case. You have 14 days to watch a movie.

That's ALREADY here.. in the next 2 years, I can't even imagine where these services will be.

In the States, already over 10 million people are taking advantage of Xbox Live. Europe might be trailing somewhat due to other reasons, not because of technical inability.

HD downloads are here.. I'm not sure what world you people are living in.

Xbox Live, Apple TV HD, Vudu HD, new upcoming XStreamHD later this year, even PS3 and Sony will have their own service. In 2 years, any problems or bottlenecks present today will be resolved. I'm sorry that some people are unable to see that. I guess it's just denial.

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+Audioboxer    2,876
Takes hours to download what? It takes DAYS to get a rented movie from Netflix so? What's the point?

Obviously you are speaking as to the fact that you personally don't get or don't want to get Xbox Live marketplace.

HD movies are working just fine. Playback starts between 5-15 minutes but you can wait to download for a few hours in any case. You have 14 days to watch a movie.

That's ALREADY here.. in the next 2 years, I can't even imagine where these services will be.

In the States, already over 10 million people are taking advantage of Xbox Live. Europe might be trailing somewhat due to other reasons, not because of technical inability.

HD downloads are here.. I'm not sure what world you people are living in.

Xbox Live, Apple TV HD, Vudu HD, new upcoming XStreamHD later this year, even PS3 and Sony will have their own service. In 2 years, any problems or bottlenecks present today will be resolved. I'm sorry that some people are unable to see that. I guess it's just denial.

I don't have the bandwith for HD movies.

I have a 30GB monthly limit between the hours of 8am to 10pm.

330GB limit between 10pm and 8am - Only really useful for downloading, and speeds can be flakey and drop to 2mb at this time as all the heavy downloaders on ADSL24 obviously schedule their downloads for this time. Me included heh...

I can't afford to watch lots of movies between 8am and 10pm therefore.

I'm on a 3MB service, not cable and not anywhere near as fast as some people - And 3mb is probably average in the UK, many places are restricted to 1~2mb. It's to do with distance from your exchange.

And I get it good, a lot of UK broadband services have 30-40GB monthly caps, full stop. You go over? Expect to pay money, it's not as if your internet just cuts out at 40GB.

Plus marketplace is 720p right? Some people may want 1080p.

And if the stuff on market place is compressed with maximum quality in mind, a 720p movie will be around 4GB id expect.

So no, we're not in denial. The whole world is not ready to adopt downloading as the main way to view movies.

And even in places with lighting fast connections, and bandwith galore, some people will just prefer physical media. You can take it to a mates house, let alone copy it to your PC and put it on your 360 anyway!

You have 14 days to watch a movie.

Didn't know that, I thought you owned the movie. Therefore it's a rental system.

Fair enough, that may be more popular than RENTING physical copies.

In 2 years, any problems or bottlenecks present today will be resolved.

Oh boooy. I do hope BT give you a job Boz, heck make you president.

If the UK's issues and problems with our broadband network AND isps are resolved in 2 years, i'll be utterly stunned.

With the monthly limits, throttling and traffic shaping, the UK is argubaly going backwards. Not to mention all the monsters such as Orange/Sky/Tiscali/Ect offering insane 18month contracts and bollocks service.

Then we have our ADSLMax packages! Sound great "GET UP TO 8MB!"... in reality, you'll get 2-4mb. 5-7mb if you're lucky and live right outside your exchange.

And finally the infastructure itself is chocked on bandwith, and you can hold your breath on the majority of areas in the UK being cable/ADSL2 enabled anytime soon.

Edited by Audioboxer

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+Audioboxer    2,876
200802210106.jpg

Lessons from the Death of HD-DVD

Daniel Eran Dilger

Over the last few months, HD-DVD appeared to rapidly fall from its apparent position as promising new disc format?touted by supporters as being technically superior, significantly cheaper, and less restrictive?down to a harsh new reality of scheduled death. However, the fate of HD-DVD wasn?t nearly as unpredictable as some seemed to think. Here?s why HD-DVD?s end should not have been a surprise, what lessons can be learned from its death, and what its demise means for MicA New Format War.t War.

Six months ago, I presented the format war between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray as a skirmish on the edge of the console video game business. Through the end of 2007, both HD formats had failed to sell more than a few hundred thousand standalone units, leaving HD discs a collective failure on the order of Microsoft?s Zune music player.

While standalone HD disc players languished in the market throughout 2007, Sony advertised Blu-Ray in its PlayStation 3 game console as Microsoft pushed HD-DVD on PCs with support built into Windows Vista and sold a low priced external HD-DVD drive option for the Xbox 360. This appeared to give Microsoft and HD-DVD a strong edge in the market, as it had the monopoly power of Windows behind it.

Both companies wanted to control media playback in the emerging market for HD video, just as they battled to control audio playback a half decade prior, when Microsoft had pushed its PlaysForSure Windows Media Audio players against Sony?s ATRAC Walkman hardware; both efforts lost out to Apple?s iPod. In the new HD video market, Microsoft again wanted to push its Windows Media codecs while Sony wanted to establish its blue-violet laser technology.

wp-content-uploads-2007-10-rd-techq307-entries-2007-8-27-blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-in-next-generation-game-consoles-2-files-shapeimage-1-4.jpg

Rest of article: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/02/21/l...eath-of-hd-dvd/

Large article, interesting read as well.

Discussed a few things I had no idea about, but of course, I have no way to know if everything is true, or some of it speculation.

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Boz    1,324
Rest of article: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/02/21/l...eath-of-hd-dvd/

Large article, interesting read as well.

Discussed a few things I had no idea about, but of course, I have no way to know if everything is true, or some of it speculation.

First of all this article is BEYOND biased. It is setting up as if Sony and Blu-Ray are tender and completley pro-consumer and Microsoft is big bad wolf. This is what makes me SICK.

Sony is JUST as bad as Microsoft if not WORSE. Unlike Microsoft, Sony is using it's retail influence but also control over hardware AND software to push their own standards. This article suggests that the format war happened because Microsoft wanted to use it's "monopoly" in Windows and to push it's codec. Bunch of garbage.

Microsoft was open to BOTH sides. There was no dirty play from Microsoft and Blu-Ray/Windows relationship. It makes me sick to the stomach to read this type of nonsense. VC1 is indeed Microsoft's codec, it is VERY good and Microsoft was open to both Blu-Ray and HD DVD. Even when backing HD DVD, they did not PREVENT Blu-Ray playback on Windows as this scumbag of an author suggests.

How do I know this? Well I personally asked the MAN IN CHARGE with Microsoft about this issue and I've posted our discussion here on Neowin as well.

The essence of format war was about royalties for Toshiba, and on the Blu-Ray side it was forcing consumers to rebuy everything by creating completely new technology that is not compatible at all with anything out there except DVD playback, so you have to rebuy everything not only from consumer side, but the manufacturing as well. HD DVD philosophy was always to bring cheap hardware and give a smooth transition to consumer between SD DVDs to HD DVDs by allowing consumers to purchase 1 copy of the movie for playback on their old DVD players as well as new. Even if a consumer didn't have HD DVD player, they would've bought a disc that contained both and down the line they didn't have to rebuy everything all over. Microsoft just saw an opportunity in all of this and tried to offer both something that was clearly very effecient and optimized, the VC1 and HDi.

I'm simply shocked with the amount of ridiculous and simply factually incorrect articles discussing the Blu-ray/HD DVD war. They are always carefully written so they lower the Blu-Ray's ineffeciencies and anti-consumer issues with the players and software but highlight on the fact that Blu-Ray had more movie support or bigger disc space.

But I guess winners write history, no matter how factually incorrect it may be.

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+Audioboxer    2,876
HD DVD philosophy was always to bring cheap hardware and give a smooth transition to consumer between SD DVDs to HD DVDs by allowing consumers to purchase 1 copy of the movie for playback on their old DVD players as well as new. Even if a consumer didn't have HD DVD player, they would've bought a disc that contained both and down the line they didn't have to rebuy everything all over.

HD DVD hardware IMO only got as cheap as it did due to Toshiba trying as hard as they could to "win".

There's no way 3rd party hardware vendors could make HD DVD players when Toshiba were selling theirs as cheap as they were and taking large hits.

An HD DVD player would not cost $99 or $149 to make if you ask me.

But I guess winners write history, no matter how factually incorrect it may be.

Well if a winner is writing something, some of what he/she must right is true, as whatever they're writing about has infact won. They may have backed/shown bias to the product, but it was a wise move in doing so.

Investers back winning products, not losing products.

I'm not saying this article is clear cut truth, but it's an interesting read and puts some different perspectives on things - Food for thought.

None of us really know everything that has gone on in this war, not even you Boz.

So I find it hard to understand how you can read everything and always come out with true/false like you do. I just don't see things being as black and white as that, especially as a lot of what will have gone on will have gone on behind closed doors at fairly high "levels".

At the bottom of the foodchain, all we get tossed is scraps - "Insider" info from annoymous sources, rumours, speculation and hearsay. Sometimes its hard to wade through it to find the truth, other times it's easy to see the truth when dealing with statistics such as sales figures.

It's an interesting read I think neverless, some will believe it, others deny it and me, well I don't disagree or agree - I think some of it may well be correct, some of it false, and some of it speculation.

Even when backing HD DVD, they did not PREVENT Blu-Ray playback on Windows as this scumbag of an author suggests.

I didn't see a suggestion in the article of the "prevention" of Blu Ray playing on Windows - Correct me if im wrong.

Edited by Audioboxer

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Boz    1,324
HD DVD hardware IMO only got as cheap as it did due to Toshiba trying as hard as they could to "win".

There's no way 3rd party hardware vendors could make HD DVD players when Toshiba were selling theirs as cheap as they were and taking large hits.

An HD DVD player would not cost $99 or $149 to make if you ask me.

And this is completely irrelevant. The reality is that even HD DVD came out sooner it was STILL almost 2x cheaper the Blu-Ray. The format war drove prices down. Toshiba dropped them like crazy to compete, but the overall gain went to consumers. Even if the war was won by HD DVD, those players would stay at those prices because Toshiba's real money was in royalties.

Eventually the consumer is a winner.. cheap adoption, everybody gets HD, corporations pay royalties to Toshiba and manufacturers don't have to reinvest millions of dollars to fuel new disc production not to mention that everybody could switch to combos and eventually replace their players without having to rebuy movies again. Everybody wins.

But now, unfortunately and I really hope I'm wrong, but Sony insider himself said.. the next Blu-Ray strategy is to cut off DVD from consumers and force them to buy Blu-Ray only. This will not only shut down businesses who replicate DVDs unless they purchase Blu-Ray replication lines but will also force consumers to buy something they might not want nor need as they will not have support for DVD they are already plenty satisifed with.

I didn't see a suggestion in the article of the "prevention" of Blu Ray playing on Windows - Correct me if im wrong.

No, but he implies it when he says Microsoft using it's Windows monopoly to support HD DVD. Complete spin and inaccurate.

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+Audioboxer    2,876
And this is completely irrelevant. The reality is that even HD DVD came out sooner it was STILL almost 2x cheaper the Blu-Ray. The format war drove prices down. Toshiba dropped them like crazy to compete, but the overall gain went to consumers. Even if the war was won by HD DVD, those players would stay at those prices because Toshiba's real money was in royalties.

Eventually the consumer is a winner.. cheap adoption, everybody gets HD, corporations pay royalties to Toshiba and manufacturers don't have to reinvest millions of dollars to fuel new disc production not to mention that everybody could switch to combos and eventually replace their players without having to rebuy movies again. Everybody wins.

I don't disagree, HD DVD players would've remained at the same price, which would've been great for us.

However that doesn't change my point that Toshiba drove them down to compete and were losing money on them. It would also have been hard for 3rd party hardware providers to enter HD DVD standalone models.

Didn't work out though...

No, but he implies it when he says Microsoft using it's Windows monopoly to support HD DVD. Complete spin and inaccurate.

Oh cmon, he "implies" that?

Blu Ray works fine on Windows, no one said otherwise. The HD DVD/Windows monopoly has nothing to do with stopping Blu Ray playback on Windows platforms - It does relate to MS trying to "force" HD DVD as the format to go with, but nothing about disabling Blu Ray playback.

It's just one persons theories/views. I don't see what he's "spinning", may be inaccurate if you have facts to say otherwise, but again points like what he is making are not black and white, unless you know everything about the war and what went on.

How do you really know what MS' intentions were other than what we got told in PR statements?

How do we know exactly what Sonts intentions were either?

We don't...

Well we do know Sony 100% backed Blu Ray.

MS on the otherhand, I have no idea... they backed HD DVD, but nothing like Sony with Blu Ray who ran around trumpeting and shouting about it every damn minute of the day - Not to forget, putting it in their console as well.

But alas, the whole thing is over now, people will say this, and say that as to why HD DVD failed - Some blame MS, some blame Toshiba, some blame Sony/BDA... Doesn't change we'll all be watching Blu Ray films from now on though...

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MGS4-SS    0
Takes hours to download what? It takes DAYS to get a rented movie from Netflix so? What's the point?

Obviously you are speaking as to the fact that you personally don't get or don't want to get Xbox Live marketplace.

HD movies are working just fine. Playback starts between 5-15 minutes but you can wait to download for a few hours in any case. You have 14 days to watch a movie.

That's ALREADY here.. in the next 2 years, I can't even imagine where these services will be.

In the States, already over 10 million people are taking advantage of Xbox Live. Europe might be trailing somewhat due to other reasons, not because of technical inability.

HD downloads are here.. I'm not sure what world you people are living in.

Xbox Live, Apple TV HD, Vudu HD, new upcoming XStreamHD later this year, even PS3 and Sony will have their own service. In 2 years, any problems or bottlenecks present today will be resolved. I'm sorry that some people are unable to see that. I guess it's just denial.

We live in the real, normal world.

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Boz    1,324
I don't disagree, HD DVD players would've remained at the same price, which would've been great for us.

However that doesn't change my point that Toshiba drove them down to compete and were losing money on them. It would also have been hard for 3rd party hardware providers to enter HD DVD standalone models.

Didn't work out though...

Oh cmon, he "implies" that?

Blu Ray works fine on Windows, no one said otherwise. The HD DVD/Windows monopoly has nothing to do with stopping Blu Ray playback on Windows platforms - It does relate to MS trying to "force" HD DVD as the format to go with, but nothing about disabling Blu Ray playback.

It's just one persons theories/views. I don't see what he's "spinning", may be inaccurate if you have facts to say otherwise, but again points like what he is making are not black and white, unless you know everything about the war and what went on.

How do you really know what MS' intentions were other than what we got told in PR statements?

How do we know exactly what Sonts intentions were either?

We don't...

Well we do know Sony 100% backed Blu Ray.

MS on the otherhand, I have no idea... they backed HD DVD, but nothing like Sony with Blu Ray who ran around trumpeting and shouting about it every damn minute of the day - Not to forget, putting it in their console as well.

But alas, the whole thing is over now, people will say this, and say that as to why HD DVD failed - Some blame MS, some blame Toshiba, some blame Sony/BDA... Doesn't change we'll all be watching Blu Ray films from now on though...

There would be no problems for other manufacturers to get into HD DVD business. They would be selling $300+ HD DVD players like they do now with Blu-Ray. The only reason they didn't like it because they weren't getting a piece of the money from royalties in that scenario.

Regardless, he is very well implying that Microsoft somehow used Windows monopoly in HD DVD advantage and whoever is reading this sentence without knowing what really happened would conclude that Microsoft allowed only HD DVD playback on Windows PCs.

Read this very carefully:

as Microsoft pushed HD-DVD on PCs with support built into Windows Vista and sold a low priced external HD-DVD drive option for the Xbox 360. This appeared to give Microsoft and HD-DVD a strong edge in the market, as it had the monopoly power of Windows behind it.

This was clearly written in a way where you could think that Microsoft only allowed HD DVD so their monopoly of Windows gave HD DVD advantage.. Complete BS!

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+Audioboxer    2,876
Read this very carefully:

This was clearly written in a way where you could think that Microsoft only allowed HD DVD so their monopoly of Windows gave HD DVD advantage.. Complete BS!

Windows is a monopoly though... in one sense or the other.

It argubaly does show that Windows could give HD DVD the advantage, but it does not show that MS only allowed HD DVD on Windows at all.

You buy an internal Blu Ray PC drive, and it would work fine - Anyone could tell you that.

Are you forgetting MS backed HD DVD over Blu Ray Boz?

They publicly announced their support, released a 360 addon and made the addon compatible with Windows PCs - They didn't need to do that, it was a 360 addon. Props for the end user, but yes, in doing so it was indeed trying to give HD DVD an advantage with cheap Windows support. Internal PC drives cost an arm and leg.

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kak    0

Some moron who is the editor of the opinion columns here at school wrote a piece on HDM today. Hilariously enough, he was massively pro-Toshiba. He claimed in his article that Sony should offer rebates to burned HD-DVD buyers. Ridiculous.. offer discounted prices to those who did not want to buy into the format and burn the rest of the (future) user base. He also made it sound like HD-DVD would stop functioning now that the format is dead and that the players had no use.

Boz, the only reason HD-DVD was cheaper was to edge Blu-Ray in the only area that Toshiba could. Prices only fell drastically towards the last 6 months of the format. I find it funny that you are promoting combos in your posts now since even the most pro-HD DVD people HATE those discs.

And for the last time, digital downloads are way off in the future. ISPs can't even handle P2P traffic these days, let alone massive HD downloads. The only infrastructure that could handle it would be satellite-based feeds [within the next 5 years]. It will also be a long time before the public gives up on physical media.

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