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[official] Next Generation HD Format General Discussion

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Coldgunner    12
Didn't know that, it true?

I assume it's all the MOVIE parts need to work, obviously some extras might not work.

All Profile 1.1 discs should function normally in existing Grace Period Profile players as far as movie playback and traditional bonus features go (meaning that older players will not necessarily become "obsolete"), but the new 1.1 enhanced features will not be accessible without a new player.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Jos..._Explained/1186

Judging by who? The BDA?

if we look at HD DVD, yes it is. True, HD titles are expensive to DVD ones but one of the reasons they are is because of low volume of production. HD DVD at least gives consumers even more with those prices because it includes both SD and DVD version of the movie on the same disc for pretty much the same price as Blu-ray these days. So, it's clear, HD DVD is going after the low budget where everyone should get HD as it is the only way to get mass adoption as a lot of people are very satisfied with DVDs. Hell I just watched an upscaled DVD on my Elite TV and was blown away how good it looked compared to HD. I mean I love HD but I see why some people just can't justify buying anything HD except the TV because costs from Blu-Ray outweigh the benefits and even in HD DVD case you get MORE despite the 3 times lower price.

now read the second part of my sentence

'although it is starting to filter down.'

thats the exact point I was making

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+Audioboxer    2,876
Judging by who? The BDA?

if we look at HD DVD, yes it is. True, HD titles are expensive but one of the reasons they are is because of low volume of production. HD DVD at least gives consumers even more with those prices because it includes both SD and DVD version of the movie on the same disc for pretty much the same price as Blu-ray these days. So, it's clear, HD DVD is going after the low budget where everyone should get HD as it is the only way to get mass adoption as a lot of people are very satisfied with DVDs. Hell I just watched an upscaled DVD on my Elite TV and was blown away how good it looked compared to HD.[/b] I mean I love HD but I see why some people just can't justify buying anything HD except the TV because costs from Blu-Ray outweigh the benefits and even in HD DVD case you get MORE despite the 3 times lower price.

Did you swallow a tab of acid before watching? ;) :laugh: (joke, im not saying you take drugs...)

No offense, upscaled DVD's do look great, but they don't compare to watching an HD movie in 1080p on a decent HDTV. Even 720p looks noticeably better.

True, HD titles are expensive but one of the reasons they are is because of low volume of production.

That will change around pretty darn quickly, even you should agree (Y)

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Boz    1,324
All Profile 1.1 discs should function normally in existing Grace Period Profile players as far as movie playback and traditional bonus features go (meaning that older players will not necessarily become "obsolete"), but the new 1.1 enhanced features will not be accessible without a new player.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Jos..._Explained/1186

In theory yes, but Denon has already warned that despite this requirment titles will most likely find a lot of difficulty working on Profile 1.0 due to more complex BD-J code for menus and interactive stuff, processing power with certain features etc etc.

http://consumerist.com/344116/buyers-bewar...ay-future-discs

Then when they asked recently the BDA if those players will work they said "Those who were buying them knew what they were getting into"

http://www.betanews.com/article/Bluray_Ear...into/1199841379

So tell me, you want to recommend someone a player, when the BDA says "the ones who bought those players knew what they were getting into".

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Coldgunner    12
In theory yes, but Denon has already warned that despite this requirment titles will most likely find a lot of difficulty working on Profile 1.0 due to more complex BD-J code for menus and interactive stuff, processing power with certain features etc etc.

http://consumerist.com/344116/buyers-bewar...ay-future-discs

Then when they asked recently the BDA if those players will work they said "Those who were buying them knew what they were getting into"

http://www.betanews.com/article/Bluray_Ear...into/1199841379

So tell me, you want to recommend someone a player, when the BDA says "the ones who bought those players knew what they were getting into".

What said was that they knew they wouldn't be getting all the features, they did not mean that the movie won't play.

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DrCheese    103

Seriously, upscaled content looks trash(Compared to HD). Even with expensive upscalers it looks NOTHING like HD. I'm always confused by people who say it does.

Example

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread...ghlight=upscale

Also, every LCD/Plasma already has an upscaler built into the set. If it didn't you'd be watching a lil postage stamp sized image on your shiny 50ins TV. The upscaler in the average upscaling DVD player is rarely much better than the TV's built in one. So unless people either spend a lot of money on an upscaling player or the upscaling of the TV is el cheapo there's little point in upscaling players.

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+Audioboxer    2,876
In theory yes, but Denon has already warned that despite this requirment titles will most likely find a lot of difficulty working on Profile 1.0 due to more complex BD-J code for menus and interactive stuff, processing power with certain features etc etc.

http://consumerist.com/344116/buyers-bewar...ay-future-discs

Then when they asked recently the BDA if those players will work they said "Those who were buying them knew what they were getting into"

http://www.betanews.com/article/Bluray_Ear...into/1199841379

So tell me, you want to recommend someone a player, when the BDA says "the ones who bought those players knew what they were getting into".

The thing is, sad or not, people are recommending Blu Ray due it being on top, and where the studio support lies, not because of it's hardware/price.

If it was all based on hardware/price, then clearly Blu Ray would of struggled more.

Due to where things stand there is soo much negative media/press about HD-DVD flunking/failing/capsizing that people are scared to recommend it incase the format completely fails and gets no more support.

Who wants to be left with an HD player with a lack of new cinema hits coming out on it? That is what some people are thinking.

This is why the whole battle at this early stage like ive said 10x is about marketing, brand recognition and getting your product into as many homes as possible even if you have to run 400x continous offers throughout the year and give it away for free. It is also why the PS3 is a sleeper hit for Blu Ray in terms of meeting the above 3 things, marketing, brand recognition and saturation in homes.

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Boz    1,324
Did you swallow a tab of acid before watching? ;) :laugh: (joke, im not saying you take drugs...)

No offense, upscaled DVD's do look great, but they don't compare to watching an HD movie in 1080p on a decent HDTV. Even 720p looks noticeably better.

That will change around pretty darn quickly, even you should agree (Y)

And I agree that volume decreases price, but listen even with that HD DVD has a HUGE advantage. For $37k an existing DVD factory can use their existing units to replicate HD DVDs. This makes so far over 200 replication lines arleady available to provide mass replication of titles.

Blu-Ray only has 2 active ones, with 8 scheduled I believe. The reason for this is simply because yield rates and costs of (around $2-$3 million per replication line) is needed to be purchased for the replication of Blu-Ray discs especially BD-50. The major 2 replication plants are Sony DADC and Cinram. They are doing fine producing discs for the small demand now, and Sony can subsidize these replication costs for all studios it has in it's pocket, but this becomes a problem with growth. Somebody has to pay for those millions of dollars of new investments into equipment and yield rates. I can assure you that it's not gonna be the replicator or the studio who takes the cost.

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Coldgunner    12

in reality the general public don't care about production costs, just the price tag on the shelf, at the moment the price tag on the shelf for software is nearly identical.

So they buy for their player(s) whichever format has the movies they want. with studios favouring BD that mean it has more movies available and will sell more.

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DrCheese    103
I can assure you that it's not gonna be the replicator or the studio who takes the cost.

?? Why wouldn't it be? Those's companies/studio's had to suck up the costs they started making CD's and later, DVD's. So why is this any different? Eventually the market will become large enough that not investing in it will hurt them. Sony won't be paying out forever.

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+Audioboxer    2,876
An Open Letter to Toshiba, Paramount, and Universal

Written by Dan Ramer

Monday, 28 January 2008

It’s time

You fought the good fight, but the time has come. The interests of the consumer and the motion picture industry will be better served by conceding and declaring Blu-ray Disc the winner of the format war. It’s time to desist and cease all hostilities.

The Warner announcement is having a dramatic effect on the market. HD DVD owners are abandoning their players in numbers disproportionate to the populations of the installed bases for the two formats. As of January 26th, HD DVD players outnumber Blu-ray Disc players on eBay by 4.4:1. And immediately after the Warner announcement was made, weekly retail HD DVD player sales dropped 88% from 14,558 units to 1,758 units, despite very substantial price cuts.

Many HD DVD player owners also seem hesitant to invest more cash in what they perceive as a failing format. Nielsen VideoScan numbers for the week ending January 20th show that 85% of HD disc sales were Blu-ray Discs and only 15% were HD DVDs. Things didn't improve the following week; for the week ending January 27th, 83% of HD disc sales were Blu-ray Discs and only 17% were HD DVDs. And for two weeks running, ten out of ten best selling high definition discs were on Blu-ray.

In a Home Media Magazine survey, the publication asked, “Will Warner siding with Blu-ray make you convert to high-definition faster?” As of the morning of January 26th:

32.4% answered “Yes”

5.1% answered “No”

43.9% responded to “I have already converted to Blu-ray”

9.9% responded to “I converted to HD DVD and will stick it out”

8.6% responded to “I had converted to HD DVD, but will convert to Blu-ray”

85% of respondents have or will be embracing Blu-ray Disc as their HD disc format of choice, leaving 10% in a state of limbo and 5% biding their time. That consumers have made their choice would seem to be an understatement.

Toshiba has slashed player prices to provoke sales, and I can fully understand the company’s need to clear existing inventory before the possibility of changing its stance. And I appreciate the loyalty of the HD DVD-exclusive studios as they express their continued support. But this war has gone on long enough.

Mainstream consumers need an end to the uncertainty so they, too, can begin to enjoy the wonders of high definition video and audio with no fear of making a misguided investment. Pacific Media Associates assessed the HD-ready display market and concluded that in 2008 prices will drop by nearly 16% and the installed base will grow by 40% to 113 million displays. Those buyers deserve a clear and unambiguous choice of high definition disc format. And the motion picture industry, for years dependent on the profit center of disc sales, need to sell their back catalogs – perhaps for the last time – to consumers who wish to experience films the way their directors intended.

Ladies and gentlemen, lay down your swords.

Source: http://dvdfile.com/index.php?option=com_co...iew&id=6496

Eeek im sure a lot of you will detest that letter, but here's a genuine question to discuss instead, when do you guys think it's time for the consumers to have 1 format? - 1 format will exist... it's inevitable.

Boz do you really think it's worth the wait to keep holding onto the notion that HD-DVD will bounce back? How long do you think this will take? ANOTHER 6months... heck even ANOTHER year of people buying into both sides with one eventually going to kick the bucket...

You guys talk about tight budgets, think of the poor folk who invest in whatever format flunks and have to cash out more money to change sides.

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TruckWEB    480
Right... The average consumer, who can barely afford a $99 player, who doesn't know what a "home network" is, and could care less about playing games, is going to drop $400 for a game console? :rolleyes: Keep dreaming.

If a consumer can BARELY afford a $99 player, well.... They won't buy a $99 HD-DVD player, they are going to go for the cheap $25 DVD player. If they are so poor....

But when you can buy a HDTV, you can buy a proper HD player to go with it.

More so with all the stores offering a "buy now" and "pay for the next 36 months". At that point, adding a Blu-Ray player will increase their bill for... what $10/month?

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TruckWEB    480
Eeek im sure a lot of you will detest that letter, but here's a genuine question to discuss instead, when do you guys think it's time for the consumers to have 1 format? - 1 format will exist... it's inevitable.

Boz do you really think it's worth the wait to keep holding onto the notion that HD-DVD will bounce back? How long do you think this will take? ANOTHER 6months... heck even ANOTHER year of people buying into both sides with one eventually going to kick the bucket...

You guys talk about tight budgets, think of the poor folk who invest in whatever format flunks and have to cash out more money to change sides.

Well, it's like a flashback to Beta & VHS. How many had to buy a new VHS because Beta flunked? That's money thrown out of the window.

DVD had it easy and I would have loved to se only 1 format replace DVD. It would have been easy, clean and no stupid choice to do.

2 format may be good for customers as this war can bring price down. But in the end, it's VERY bad for the customers who selected the wrong format.... EVEN if that format has 400+ movies on the shelfs, it's still a bad move.

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Boz    1,324
Source: http://dvdfile.com/index.php?option=com_co...iew&id=6496

Eeek im sure a lot of you will detest that letter, but here's a genuine question to discuss instead, when do you guys think it's time for the consumers to have 1 format? - 1 format will exist... it's inevitable.

Boz do you really think it's worth the wait to keep holding onto the notion that HD-DVD will bounce back? How long do you think this will take? ANOTHER 6months... heck even ANOTHER year of people buying into both sides with one eventually going to kick the bucket...

You guys talk about tight budgets, think of the poor folk who invest in whatever format flunks and have to cash out more money to change sides.

I'm not sure how you want to react to a personal letter from a fan who quotes some numbers that are completely irrelevant. 43% of owners already owns a Blu-Ray player out of 2% of population..

I mean I can laugh of course, the person who wrote the letter is obviously reacting the same way as many Blu-Ray fanboys are. He desperatily desires it to be over so he can justify his own side.

You do realize that current numbers are showing an upwards trend for HD DVD again right despite all the hoopla after Warner announcement. The fact is, HD DVD players are selling like crazy, the price is $100-$120 and there's a big catalog of movies already with Warner movies until Q3 and big hits coming up this year. I personally am pleasantly surprised how fast HD DVD has gotten it's legs back.

It's back up, and shaking off the Warner blow. Now it's like Rocky, hitting back and finishing with with the knockout before anyone realizes what hit them. :)

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Boz    1,324
Well, it's like a flashback to Beta & VHS. How many had to buy a new VHS because Beta flunked? That's money thrown out of the window.

DVD had it easy and I would have loved to se only 1 format replace DVD. It would have been easy, clean and no stupid choice to do.

2 format may be good for customers as this war can bring price down. But in the end, it's VERY bad for the customers who selected the wrong format.... EVEN if that format has 400+ movies on the shelfs, it's still a bad move.

Not necessarily at all.. the same thing happened with DVD-R+ and DVD-R- you had to buy one of the other drive and discs.

Eventually they drove the prices on both down and we started getting solutions with drives supporting both.

With Format war a consumer would win out eventually as no company would like to lose millions of consumers so they would be forced to create dual format players that would be cheap.

Competition is ALWAYS good. HD DVD wouldn't be at $100 now and Blu-Ray would still be $700-$800 if it wasn't for competition.

Let's take a scenario where this war keeps going on for 2 more years shell we? In 2 years, you have 10 million Blu-Ray owners and 8 million HD DVD owners let's say. Each have their own catalog of movies. No winner in sight and the individual players are now $50 HD DVD player - $150 Blu-Ray player. So for $200 you get both, but in the mean time, Samsung and LG have been improving their hybrid players and now they are at $250. The more time passes by the need for hybrid players becomes more evident because you have millions of consumers on both sides.

Do you see my point? The market dictates the companies not the other way around as Blu-Ray crowd would like everyone to think as if heaven would fall if HD DVD prevailed.

Eventually you would see transition to the cheaper format, but dual players would become the norm so companies and studios can get everyone's money.

Edited by Boz

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+Audioboxer    2,876
I'm not sure how you want to react to a personal letter from a fan who quotes some numbers that are completely irrelevant. 43% of owners already owns a Blu-Ray player out of 2% of population..

I mean I can laugh of course, the person who wrote the letter is obviously reacting the same way as many Blu-Ray fanboys are. He desperatily desires it to be over so he can justify his own side.

You do realize that current numbers are showing an upwards trend for HD DVD again right despite all the hoopla after Warner announcement. The fact is, HD DVD players are selling like crazy, the price is $100-$120 and there's a big catalog of movies already with Warner movies until Q3 and big hits coming up this year. I personally am pleasantly surprised how fast HD DVD has gotten it's legs back.

It's back up, and shaking off the Warner blow. Now it's like Rocky, hitting back and finishing with with the knockout before anyone realizes what hit them. :)

You laugh at someone on the winning side finally seeing an end to this war? If HD-DVD was put into the exact position Blu Ray is in right now would you not be singing for victory and for the war to end? Or would you be saying lets hold out another 1-2 years to see if Blu Ray can fight back?

How do you define a Blu Ray fanboy? Would you say you were an HD-DVD fanboy?

One could laugh at you, trumphing on the losing underdog to come back from defeat to win which will take even longer than it would for Blu Ray just to be crowned winner (2 studios to go exclusive vs all of Blu Rays studios going to HD-DVD).

He wished to stop the war, you wish to prolong it.

That is how he might see it at his end Boz.

Just the way it is, the side you are rooting for will prolong the war for longer.

I see in your post above you mention "2 years"

Holy hell I sure hope you DO NOT want this war to still be raging in 2 years. Talk about a massive letdown if we still have a split of some sorts in 2 years time :no: (N)

In 2 years it's not "competition" it will be anarchy and thousands if not millions of pounds flying everywhere with people not knowing what to buy.

Let me say, this is the gods honest truth, if HD-DVD was in the position Blu Ray was just now I'd be rooting for it to hit the nails in the casket. Why? I just want 1 damn format to win. I wouldn't feel bad about my PS3 as I bought that primarily for games, and would have no issue picking up an HD-DVD player.

Edited by Audioboxer

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Boz    1,324

First of all Audio, this whole notion of stopping the war as being a good thing is pretty silly. Okay, let's say tomorrow HD DVD is no longer. What do you get?

- You get $400 players that are still not finalized except PS3 with very little incentive to rapidly drop prices

- You get no need for BOGOs anymore and media at $30-$40

- You get more people continuing to buy DVDs instead of going HD because of high prices

In this scenario as many Blu-Ray fans are already saying, we would have to wait for about 2 years before Blu-Ray players reach <$200 prices and I'm not certain that at that price you would get a Profile 2.0 player

I will stop here, so you can tell me if you agree with this or not?

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Coldgunner    12
First of all Audio, this whole notion of stopping the war as being a good thing is pretty silly. Okay, let's say tomorrow HD DVD is no longer. What do you get?

- You get $400 players that are still not finalized except PS3 with very little incentive to rapidly drop prices

- You get no need for BOGOs anymore and media at $30-$40

- You get more people continuing to buy DVDs instead of going HD because of high prices

In this scenario as many Blu-Ray fans are already saying, we would have to wait for about 2 years before Blu-Ray players reach <$200 prices and I'm not certain that at that price you would get a Profile 2.0 player

I will stop here, so you can tell me if you agree with this or not?

was dvd any different?

no, it took years for dvd to be the norm.

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+Audioboxer    2,876
First of all Audio, this whole notion of stopping the war as being a good thing is pretty silly. Okay, let's say tomorrow HD DVD is no longer. What do you get?

- You get $400 players that are still not finalized except PS3 with very little incentive to rapidly drop prices

- You get no need for BOGOs anymore and media at $30-$40

- You get more people continuing to buy DVDs instead of going HD because of high prices

In this scenario as many Blu-Ray fans are already saying, we would have to wait for about 2 years before Blu-Ray players reach <$200 prices and I'm not certain that at that price you would get a Profile 2.0 player

I will stop here, so you can tell me if you agree with this or not?

If the war ends tomorrow I get all my movies on 1 format, no crying my eyes out as I can't see Knocked Up as it's an HD-DVD exclusive.

You have NO backing in your claims prices wouldn't move down, they would. Trends show they would, all technology comes down in price. Blu Ray laser costs have been coming down, and so have the players, most noticeably the PS3 though, but that is Sonys trojan horse they are looking to win the format with just now.

Sony isn't the antichrist and the devil himself will not spout from the ground if Blu Ray won tomorrow and go "that's all folks, no more price cuts EVER!".

Get over your stubborn notion that Blu Ray hardware & software won't come down in price.

You have absolutely no backup at all of this

In this scenario as many Blu-Ray fans are already saying, we would have to wait for about 2 years before Blu-Ray players reach <$200 prices and I'm not certain that at that price you would get a Profile 2.0 player

Other than your "beliefs" it will work that way.

However my belief of me seeing all my movies on 1 format, without me upset about missing out on exclusives = fact if a format was crowned winner tomorrow.

This war is not good, and the further it carries on into the HD market shift, the more ****ed off consumers will be.

Consumers like competition with TV brands, as they ALL do the same thing, ALL have hookups for dvd/hd players and ALL can co-exist.

Consumers don't like 2 formats that are made to do the same thing, but prevent you from seeing certain movies, can't co-exist as 1 will win eventually and will cost you a good bit of money if you jump on the wrong train.

Oh and finally Boz, im not alone, noooot in a blue moon am I alone. I have a huge backing of consumers/retail outlets and media who all want this damn war to end.

Edited by Audioboxer

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DrCheese    103
I mean I can laugh of course, the person who wrote the letter is obviously reacting the same way as many Blu-Ray fanboys are. He desperatily desires it to be over so he can justify his own side.

What? We're not trying to justify anything. We just want HD-DVD to admit its over so we can get on with the main job of converting the average public to HD and get all the universal/paramount titles back. The war is over in all but name, but the HD-DVD group would rather it drags on for another year for no real reason, other than to spite the BDA.

You do realize that current numbers are showing an upwards trend for HD DVD again

So let me get this straight, Blu-ray fanboys last week were smacked around for calling one weeks results a trend (The week that BD had over 90% of the hardware market) Yet now you say because HD-DVD has slightly recovered from that(For one week), its allowed to be a "Trend". hmm.

The fact is, HD DVD players are selling like crazy,

Yeah, that's why the NPD sales are lower than they were before the Warner thing. :rolleyes:

pleasantly surprised how fast HD DVD has gotten it's legs back.

Has it? I hadn't noticed. The only upcoming releases that got announced by para and uni after the warner thing was titles that we previously knew about.

Sigh

You later mention DVDR- and DVDR+ There's a slight difference here in that neither of those have content on so its a different ball game from the start.

You mention dual format players as a good thing, but it makes no sense for the studio's to support them. It'd be such a waste of resources for the movie industry to do so. Studio's wasting cash on making two different types of disks that hold the same content, stores wasting extra space stocking both formats, replicators charging more due to less lines per format.

Your argument on competition is fail as well. Do you REALLY still think that CE's won't compete internally within the format, just like they did with DVD?

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TruckWEB    480
How do you define a Blu Ray fanboy? Would you say you were an HD-DVD fanboy?

I see in your post above you mention "2 years"

Holy hell I sure hope you DO NOT want this war to still be raging in 2 years. Talk about a massive letdown if we still have a split of some sorts in 2 years time :no: (N)

Boz is a fanboy for HD-DVD with some very valid and good reason. You can't deny the fact that HD-DVD is the cheaper format with the best (final) specifications.

BUT, at some point, you need to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Numbers don't lie, you can spin them anyway you like, make them say what you like, but in the end, numbers are numbers and they are not that great for HD-DVD, simple as that. No need to argue/justify anything.

I would be quite happy to see HD-DVD being in the lead and winning. I would be here saying how much I want Blu-Ray to die so that we can only have 1 format with ALL studio behind it. But for whatever reason (free deal, Bogo, free movies, more studios, ...) Sony and Blu-Ray is "currently" winning. SO, again, I only wish for 1 format with ALL STUDIOS behind it. So why prolong this stupid war, Toshiba should admit they lost and be done with it. HEK, they could market good Blu-Ray player or combo player if they wanted.

This war need to end.

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Boz    1,324
If the war ends tomorrow I get all my movies on 1 format, no crying my eyes out as I can't see Knocked Up as it's an HD-DVD exclusive.

You have NO backing in your claims prices wouldn't move down, they would. Trends show they would, all technology comes down in price. Blu Ray laser costs have been coming down, and so have the players, most noticeably the PS3 though, but that is Sonys trojan horse they are looking to win the format with just now.

Show me. What trends? How long did it take for DVD to fall down in price and how long did it take for HD players to come down in price? Do you realize that I don't want to wait 2-3 more years to get fully featured players just so I can have Blu-Ray when I can have all that now for $100.

What you are talking about in regards to the overall pricing is true, but we are talking about TIME. If we had Blu-Ray win, there is aboslutely ZERO incentive for them to drop prices as fast they are doing now. Who benefits from that? You or them? Again, having movies on one format mean nothing when they cost $30-$40. You do realize that there is ZERO incentives with them to do as much BOGOS as they've done so far.

I mean if you can't see these things I think you are really closing your eyes on account of your own bias.

The whole point I laugh at is constant screaming that HD DVD is dead. There are products and technologies in the market that are FAR form the position HD DVD is in and they are hardly pronounced dead, especially since a lot of those products are actually Sony products.

The whole DEAD thing is the result of hurd mentality. You seem to forget that HD DVD had Warner and Paramount publish as neutral with Universal being the only HD DVD exclusive studio and what happened? Now HD DVD has 2 EXCLUSIVE studios. Even with Warner I would say that the numbers in odds are the same as they were at the beginning of 2007 only this time we have $100 players in the game. Tell me how many times did we hear media and studio heads say it's over? And what happened? HD DVD continued and actually started growing.

All this dead talk is the consequences of Blu-Ray crowd being ticked off they can't get almost 40% of movies not to mention that it bothers everyone that HD DVD players are now $100. Combine the two and it's understandable where the fear with some people and companies comes from.

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Coldgunner    12
Show me. What trends? How long did it take for DVD to fall down in price and how long did it take for HD players to come down in price? Do you realize that I don't want to wait 2-3 more years to get fully featured players just so I can have Blu-Ray when I can have all that now for $100.

being limited to 1080i kinda means they're not fully featured

and the other format you refer to, UMD, is actually doing quite well, its just not used for anything other than games now.

the main function of UMD, minidisc and SACD were specific to music and games, can't really compare

All this dead talk is the consequences of Blu-Ray crowd being ticked off they can't get almost 40% of movies not to mention that it bothers everyone that HD DVD players are now $100.

and hddvd owners can't get 60% of movies :p

And what happened? HD DVD continued and actually started growing.

I don't really see a sales spike as growth. when bd beats hd hands down for an entire year, thats growth.

Personally, I just think you're a sony hater

Edited by Coldgunner

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Boz    1,324
being limited to 1080i kinda means they're not fully featured

and the other format you refer to, UMD, is actually doing quite well, its just not used for anything other than games now.

Give me a break, is that the best you can do? I've posted to death why 1080i is just as good.. but even if we go by your reasoning, the players are STILL full featured that play EVERYTHING on the movies you buy and slightly less resolution which is STILL HD.

What you are saying is simply a confirmation about your own involvement in the web of PR that 1080p is the one and only HD and that 720 and 1080i are simply not HD and which is quite honestly silly.

and hddvd owners can't get 60% of movies :p

Actually you are wrong.. there is FAR more Blu-Ray exlusives available for import from other countries. For those who really miss the movies they can import. Sure, it won't be at the drop of the hat and they can't go to the B&M store, but they can still get it. With Blu-Ray A LOT of them even though are available overseas are not able to be watched on Blu-Ray due to regional coding.

So that ratio of what you can watch and can't watch with importing becomes more positive for HD DVD again.

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TruckWEB    480
All this dead talk is the consequences of Blu-Ray crowd being ticked off they can't get almost 40% of movies not to mention that it bothers everyone that HD DVD players are now $100. Combine the two and it's understandable where the fear with some people and companies comes from.

Yeah, you can talk all you want about Blu or HD-DVD and you don't care because in the end, YOU have both player, so whatever format a movie is on, you can buy it.

But not everybody is in that position. Sure you can buy a HD-DVD player for $169 (Canada, no $99 here), or invest a $400 on a PS3 if you only have a HD-DVD player but want to watch a movie only on Blu-Ray... But that's alot of money and 2 devices.... Or better yet, get that nice (new) Samsung Combo-Format for "only" $799.

I have both player now, but it still **** me off to have to select between Blu or HD-DVD when I buy a movie. I wish everything was only in 1 format anyway.

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+Audioboxer    2,876
Boz is a fanboy for HD-DVD with some very valid and good reason. You can't deny the fact that HD-DVD is the cheaper format with the best (final) specifications.

BUT, at some point, you need to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Numbers don't lie, you can spin them anyway you like, make them say what you like, but in the end, numbers are numbers and they are not that great for HD-DVD, simple as that. No need to argue/justify anything.

I would be quite happy to see HD-DVD being in the lead and winning. I would be here saying how much I want Blu-Ray to die so that we can only have 1 format with ALL studio behind it. But for whatever reason (free deal, Bogo, free movies, more studios, ...) Sony and Blu-Ray is "currently" winning. SO, again, I only wish for 1 format with ALL STUDIOS behind it. So why prolong this stupid war, Toshiba should admit they lost and be done with it. HEK, they could market good Blu-Ray player or combo player if they wanted.

This war need to end.

And I don't deny that (Y)

The only reason I asked Boz what he would judge himself as is because of his quick use of the term "blu ray fanboy" and his assumption that there are a lot of "blu ray fanboys" who just want blu ray to win to justify their purchase...

You make fair points though, whatever side you are on, the best solution is to make compromise and end this whole thing asap.

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