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[official] Next Generation HD Format General Discussion

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TruckWEB    480
Actually you are wrong.. there is FAR more Blu-Ray exlusives available for import from other countries. For those who really miss the movies they can import. Sure, it won't be at the drop of the hat and they can't go to the B&M store, but they can still get it. With Blu-Ray A LOT of them even though are available overseas are not able to be watched on Blu-Ray due to regional coding.

Only if you don't mind dropping a huge amount of money to import movies + shipping. I've done it for 2 HD-DVD movies, it cost me $90.... It's crazy and no one should have to do that in order to get what they want.

Import is a VERY bad argument for HD-DVD.... Unless you don't know what to do with your money.

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Boz    1,324
Yeah, you can talk all you want about Blu or HD-DVD and you don't care because in the end, YOU have both player, so whatever format a movie is on, you can buy it.

But not everybody is in that position. Sure you can buy a HD-DVD player for $169 (Canada, no $99 here), or invest a $400 on a PS3 if you only have a HD-DVD player but want to watch a movie only on Blu-Ray... But that's alot of money and 2 devices.... Or better yet, get that nice (new) Samsung Combo-Format for "only" $799.

I have both player now, but it still **** me off to have to select between Blu or HD-DVD when I buy a movie. I wish everything was only in 1 format anyway.

Well it would be a best scenario for content true, but again, would you be able to buy them at $30-$40? Then we also have to consider the manufacturing costs. HD DVD holds by technology only and investment necessary by replication companies an upper hand of mass production. You can have theories that Blu-ray could match that, but it's very clear that's not the case. At least everything I've seen and read tells me that no way in hell Blu-Ray could match the production costs of HD DVD on mass level. At least not for another year or two even if replication companies started buying Blu-Ray lines.

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Coldgunner    12
Give me a break, is that the best you can do? I've posted to death why 1080i is just as good.. but even if we go by your reasoning, the players are STILL full featured that play EVERYTHING on the movies you buy and slightly less resolution which is STILL HD.

What you are saying is simply a confirmation about your own involvement in the web of PR that 1080p is the one and only HD and that 720 and 1080i are simply not HD and which is quite honestly silly.

when a player cannot output the full resolution of the video on the disc then yeah, its lacking a FEATURE.

lacking a feature = not fully featured

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+Audioboxer    2,876
Show me. What trends? How long did it take for DVD to fall down in price and how long did it take for HD players to come down in price? Do you realize that I don't want to wait 2-3 more years to get fully featured players just so I can have Blu-Ray when I can have all that now for $100.

What you are talking about in regards to the overall pricing is true, but we are talking about TIME. If we had Blu-Ray win, there is aboslutely ZERO incentive for them to drop prices as fast they are doing now. Who benefits from that? You or them? Again, having movies on one format mean nothing when they cost $30-$40. You do realize that there is ZERO incentives with them to do as much BOGOS as they've done so far.

I mean if you can't see these things I think you are really closing your eyes on account of your own bias.

The whole point I laugh at is constant screaming that HD DVD is dead. There are products and technologies in the market that are FAR form the position HD DVD is in and they are hardly pronounced dead, especially since a lot of those products are actually Sony products.

The whole DEAD thing is the result of hurd mentality. You seem to forget that HD DVD had Warner and Paramount publish as neutral with Universal being the only HD DVD exclusive studio and what happened? Now HD DVD has 2 EXCLUSIVE studios. Even with Warner I would say that the numbers in odds are the same as they were at the beginning of 2007 only this time we have $100 players in the game. Tell me how many times did we hear media and studio heads say it's over? And what happened? HD DVD continued and actually started growing.

All this dead talk is the consequences of Blu-Ray crowd being ticked off they can't get almost 40% of movies not to mention that it bothers everyone that HD DVD players are now $100. Combine the two and it's understandable where the fear with some people and companies comes from.

Boz not only Sony makes players, there will be an internal fight between the manufacturers if Blu Ray won to reap most profit from their own players - That in effect drives down costs.

Toshiba practically have to market players themselves as there is currently no incentive for anyone else to make HD-DVD players with Toshiba at the prices they are at.

Let Blu Ray win, and let the unheard of chinese branded blu ray players help sell to the "poor" market you all go on about like they currently do with the cheap dvd players.

All this dead talk is the consequences of Blu-Ray crowd being ticked off they can't get almost 40% of movies not to mention that it bothers everyone that HD DVD players are now $100. Combine the two and it's understandable where the fear with some people and companies comes from.

Sadly right now the only people living in fear are those who have bought into HD-DVD. Ask some of your friends Boz, read the internet, look at the media... Or do you pull the wool over your eyes?

HD-DVD is not dead, but support hangs by a thread in comparison to studios vs studios, and sales do not look good, regardless of how many offers Blu Ray have gone through to reach where they are.

And yeah,

HD DVD continued and actually started growing

HD-DVD grows everyday.... but not at the same pace as Blu Ray.

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Boz    1,324
Only if you don't mind dropping a huge amount of money to import movies + shipping. I've done it for 2 HD-DVD movies, it cost me $90.... It's crazy and no one should have to do that in order to get what they want.

Import is a VERY bad argument for HD-DVD.... Unless you don't know what to do with your money.

My point was that you can still get them. Not everyone can afford HD movies now either way, import or not, so if someone needs to pay a few more bucks to get an import and they really want the movie on HD DVD they can get it.

I'm just talking about availability.

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DrCheese    103
constant screaming that HD DVD is dead. There are products and technologies in the market that are FAR form the position HD DVD is in

Its dead in the context of the HD home movie market. It doesn't matter how other tech's are in other market's as they are in a different ballgame.

You say that now HD-DVD has two exclusive studio's whereas before it only had one. Thats great, but it was a 50/50 ish split in terms of overall content you could get. Now more like 60/70 in favour of BD. Big difference.

The whole DEAD thing is the result of hurd mentality

Are you for serious? :rolleyes:

The only reason HD-DVD players being el cheapo bothers me is because all it does is drag out the war, a war that Toshiba has already lost. I don't think HD-DVD will magicly come back from the dead because of it. I don't "fear" it as you put it, Its just not going to happen.

Edited by DrCheese

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TruckWEB    480
My point was that you can still get them. Not everyone can afford HD movies now either way, import or not, so if someone needs to pay a few more bucks to get an import and they really want the movie on HD DVD they can get it.

I'm just talking about availability.

So it's OK to pay more (no no, more than just a few bucks) to import a HD-DVD movie not sold in store here but it's Crazy to buy a $400 Blu-Ray player....

In the long run, not only does Blu have 60% of the studio, but if you build-up a collection of movies (like I do), it's simpler to pay $26 for the Blu-Ray movie than to import a $45 HD-DVD movie. It's not going to take long to have a return on your Blu investment.

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Boz    1,324
Boz not only Sony makes players, there will be an internal fight between the manufacturers if Blu Ray won to reap most profit from their own players - That in effect drives down costs.

This is PURE speculation on your part as we've seen that it took the WHOLE united industry 6-7 years for DVD players to reach affordable prices for eveyrone. DVD took off years into the format. HD DVD and Blu-Ray prices dropped 2-3 times in a year. Now we have HD DVD players at $100 and no Blu-Ray player is below $300 except the ones that are being discountinued.

These CE companies are sticking together. They've made a mistake with DVD players before and they will not make that mistake again if they win. They will keep the low end price at $250-$300 and hit high prices for a few years by dumping prices on previous models when they introduce the new ones. It's very obvious as they are already doing that.

Toshiba practically have to market players themselves as there is currently no incentive for anyone else to make HD-DVD players with Toshiba at the prices they are at.

Let Blu Ray win, and let the unheard of chinese branded blu ray players help sell to the "poor" market you all go on about like they currently do with the cheap dvd players.

Who says that you? Did you read that somewhere? Tell me, what prevents Samsung from making a $300 Samsung HD DVD player only or what prevents Panasonic from making at $350 HD DVD player? They will sell just as well. Sure, the lower end is dominated by Toshiba, but hey, that's business, they didn't want to support HD DVD in the beginning this is the thing they have to live with.

What you say doesn't make sense as the cheapest Blu-Ray and THE ONLY RECOMMENDED Blu-Ray player is Sony's PS3. Where's competition there? What's the incentive for other CE companies to offer players when Sony is absolutely holding the monopoly on Blu-Ray through PS3?

Let's be realistic here.

And you are wrong about Chinese. It's the other way around, Toshiba is the one who has maintained great connections with China and already has mass production in place. Blu-Ray is running away from China like a plague because they are horrified of the fact that Chinese can make $100 Blu-ray players the second they allow them them access to technology. This is why Funai is the only annouced Blu-Ray player at freakin' $300!!

Sadly right now the only people living in fear are those who have bought into HD-DVD. Ask some of your friends Boz, read the internet, look at the media... Or do you pull the wool over your eyes?

HD-DVD is not dead, but support hangs by a thread in comparison to studios vs studios, and sales do not look good, regardless of how many offers Blu Ray have gone through to reach where they are.

Okay, remember what you wrote here and let's revise in the upcoming weeks.

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+Audioboxer    2,876
Okay, remember what you wrote here and let's revise in the upcoming weeks.

And then I'll just be doing what you done for the WHOLE of last year!

Every month was "Blu Ray just wait!!!", or "I can't wait till Warner goes HD-DVD" or "By XMAS HD-DVD will have destroyed Blu Ray"... ect.

I have more backing in what I say due to where the market sits Boz, that's where your speculation looks bad for you.

What I say is based on what has happened for the whole of last year (Blu Ray on top on paper for the year), and how things have started this year WB goes BR exclusive and Blu Ray still on top on paper.

I'm out guys, this isn't fun anymore, it's actually painful. Boz you will NEVER look at it from any other side than HD-DVD will win, and it doesn't matter how long it takes. Fairplay on you, it's your choice, just understand it's why you get soo much friction chucked your way. If you think there can only be one winner, that's a flawed logic in itself. To elaborate on that, I go by Blu Ray winning due to where Blu Ray stands and the backing it is, but if HD-DVD were in Blu Rays shoes I would change my opinion immediately - You on the otherhand would not change your opinion if HD-DVD had 1 studio and 3 movies releases scheduled for 2008, or at least it seems that way.

You're arguing with people who have healthy stats to backup their arguments, where as a lot of your arguments come from speculation or wishful thinking. Some of it like the prices/profiling of HD-DVD is very very valid, but those points are overshadowed in this war, mainly again, due to the stats on paper.

Business'/Retailers work on statistics, they don't wage money on speculation/hearsay/belief or what they want to happen, they go for where the money is made. It's these retailers and studios I hope will end this war by going by current statistics.

Edited by Audioboxer

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Boz    1,324
Its dead in the context of the HD home movie market. It doesn't matter how other tech's are in other market's as they are in a different ballgame.

I keep hearing this.. would you mind explaining how is this a different ballgame?

PSP, UMD, PS3 vs Xbox 360. Same principles apply.

Should PS3 get dropped because it has absolutely misearble sales in comparison to Wii and Xbox 360? Tell me?

How is that view different? I know, it's different because it goes against what you support so it can't be the same as it goes against your arguments.

There is no difference. HD DVD is owned by at least a million users. The content is available even MORE then it was for PS3. So how is this different. The only difference is that we are talking about game consoles against movie players. Please explain your reasoning as I'd like to understand.

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Boz    1,324
And then I'll just be doing what you done for the WHOLE of last year!

Every month was "Blu Ray just wait!!!", or "I can't wait till Warner goes HD-DVD" or "By XMAS HD-DVD will have destroyed Blu Ray"... ect.

I have more backing in what I say due to where the market sits Boz, that's where your speculation looks bad for you.

What I say is based on what has happened for the whole of last year (Blu Ray on top on paper for the year), and how things have started this year WB goes BR exclusive and Blu Ray still on top on paper.

And again, I said.. It is war... I make my assumption based on trends and numbers we are seeing. Obviously when they go in and pay off $500-$600 million to get Warner who was btw already agreed to go HD DVD the assumption seem wrong. But I assure you Warner was suppose to go HD DVD, but I won't go into that now.

The fact is, that as soon as HD DVD start breaking away with sales or prices, BDA counters with another payoff. This is fine because that's how they fight and if it's illegal I guess somebody should jump in, if it's not it's all good. But there's only so much they can pay IMO. Even now, with Warner on their side, the mass cheap HD DVD players will spread like wildfire and negate the Warner payoff.

I don't understand why people squirm when HD DVD plays hardball and you approve when Sony and BDA plays hardball? What's the difference?

Let me remind you AGAIN, that HD DVD was FIRST to the market, it had finished specifications, it had support from retailers and consumers had 1 STANDARD. Why didn't you yell BOOOHOOO Blu-Ray for trying to prevent unified HD format?

It's very hypocritical.

I say, Toshiba KEEP FIGHTING BACK!! Get people dirt cheap players.. get BDA to sweat, to BLEED money, to get more BOGOs, to be forced to lower Blu-Ray players and PS3 prices, for Samsung and LG to continue dropping price on dual format players.

By the end of 2008 we will have $350 dual players from Samsung as the newly announced player BD-U5500 I think is priced at around $500.

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TruckWEB    480
Let me remind you AGAIN, that HD DVD was FIRST to the market, it had finished specifications, it had support from retailers and consumers had 1 STANDARD. Why didn't you yell BOOOHOOO Blu-Ray for trying to prevent unified HD format?

I don't remember Sony asking anybody if it was OK to come out with another format.... They just did, no question asked.

Back in the days, when BETA was the king, did Philips/JVC ask the world about VHS before pushing it out to stores? NO.... But VHS did offer more storage space, at a reduced cost. And lets not forget, porn.

Blu-Ray was late to the party, with more storage, at a higher cost (to produce, and own). But they have money... money to buy into stores, into studios, .....

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Boz    1,324
I don't remember Sony asking anybody if it was OK to come out with another format.... They just did, no question asked.

Back in the days, when BETA was the king, did Philips/JVC ask the world about VHS before pushing it out to stores? NO.... But VHS did offer more storage space, at a reduced cost. And lets not forget, porn.

Blu-Ray was late to the party, with more storage, at a higher cost (to produce, and own). But they have money... money to buy into stores, into studios, .....

I think you are missing my point. We already HAD 1 format. Who gives the right to anyone to judge Toshiba now for fighting for their format now? To buy off studios, to give away players? How is this different then what Blu-ray did in the beginning?

I mean it's extremely silly to push this agenda when we already had this thing solved but yet somehow nobody is point fingers at BDA. I don't understand.

Let me remind you that PS3 owners (btw, the 90% of Blu-Ray customers) would not really be hurt at all as they would still get games and stuff on it. So it's double standard all the way.

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+Audioboxer    2,876
And again, I said.. It is war... I make my assumption based on trends and numbers we are seeing. Obviously when they go in and pay off $500-$600 million to get Warner who was btw already agreed to go HD DVD the assumption seem wrong. But I assure you Warner was suppose to go HD DVD, but I won't go into that now.

The fact is, that as soon as HD DVD start breaking away with sales or prices, BDA counters with another payoff. This is fine because that's how they fight and if it's illegal I guess somebody should jump in, if it's not it's all good. But there's only so much they can pay IMO. Even now, with Warner on their side, the mass cheap HD DVD players will spread like wildfire and negate the Warner payoff.

I don't understand why people squirm when HD DVD plays hardball and you approve when Sony and BDA plays hardball? What's the difference?

Let me remind you AGAIN, that HD DVD was FIRST to the market, it had finished specifications, it had support from retailers and consumers had 1 STANDARD. Why didn't you yell BOOOHOOO Blu-Ray for trying to prevent unified HD format?

It's very hypocritical.

I say, Toshiba KEEP FIGHTING BACK!! Get people dirt cheap players.. get BDA to sweat, to BLEED money, to get more BOGOs, to be forced to lower Blu-Ray players and PS3 prices, for Samsung and LG to continue dropping price on dual format players.

By the end of 2008 we will have $350 dual players from Samsung as the newly announced player BD-U5500 I think is priced at around $500.

It'll be the consumers bleeding money if this war goes on another year or two...

I make my assumption based on trends and numbers we are seeing

Then why are you never making the assumption of Blu Ray winning seeing as the numbers we see go in Blu Rays favour?

the mass cheap HD DVD players will spread like wildfire and negate the Warner payoff.

Lets see if that happens then, the mass amount of cheap HD-DVD players last year/over xmas didn't do much.

I don't understand why people squirm when HD DVD plays hardball and you approve when Sony and BDA plays hardball? What's the difference?

Sony and BDA are on top, and could seal the deal pretty soon. HD-DVD playing hard ball = Prolonging of the war due to the distance they have to travel.

If it were 55:50, or heck even 60:40 I'd say yeah have a go guys, but it's not quite that close.

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Boz    1,324
It'll be the consumers bleeding money if this war goes on another year or two...

Then why are you never making the assumption of Blu Ray winning seeing as the numbers we see go in Blu Rays favour?

Tell me how will you bleed money PLEASE!!?

You will get an HD DVD player for $100. Nobody prevents your from ordering from the States. You will get $15 HD movies due to BOGOs from both sides.

HOW ARE YOU BLEEDING money?

Lets see if that happens then, the mass amount of cheap HD-DVD players last year/over xmas didn't do much.

Didn't do much?!.. this is too much man ha ha. Compared to what?! They sold 100k players in 1 day.. they HD DVD and Blu-Ray together with Blu-Ray GIVING them away can't go over 35k in a MONTH. LOL..

Come on man.. the problem with A2s was that there wasn't enough of them. The supply was bad, this is not the case with A3s now. They ramped up production like crazy.

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+Audioboxer    2,876
Tell me how will you bleed money PLEASE!!?

You will get an HD DVD player for $100. Nobody prevents your from ordering from the States. You will get $15 HD movies due to BOGOs from both sides.

HOW ARE YOU BLEEDING money?

When my potential HD-DVD player loses and has no more movies out on it, and then you start to see old HD-DVD movies come out on Blu Ray.

I'm not risking buying a piece of hardware that won't be supported if it loses.

Why am I going to order from the states? Import tax and the plug needs to have voltage convertor slapped on it.

DIDN'T DO MUCH?!.. this is too much man. Compared to what?! They sold 100k players in 1 FREAKIN' DAY.. they HD DVD and Blu-Ray together with Blu-Ray GIVING them away can't go over 35k in a MONTH. LOL..

Come on man.. the problem with A2s was that there wasn't enough of them. The supply was bad, this is not the case with A3s now. They ramped up production like crazy.

Consistency is the key, 100k in one day isn't enough.

You need to outsell Blu Ray for months if not a year.

The PS3 outsold the Wii in Japan for 3 weeks, then what happened? Wii back on top.

One day, let alone 3 weeks hardly has enough impact to shift a war.

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Boz    1,324
When my potential HD-DVD player loses and has no more movies out on it, and then you start to see old HD-DVD movies come out on Blu Ray.

I'm not risking buying a piece of hardware that won't be supported if it loses.

Why am I going to order from the states? Import tax and the plug needs to have voltage convertor slapped on it.

Listen, you are just looking for excuse. There's absolutely no reason not to buy HD DVD player as it is an excellent DVD player as well and it's dirt cheap. The prices in Canada are going to be at $100 as well. So please, at least TRY to be objective.

I would be more afraid at pay $400 for somethign that can't watch 30%-40% of content with unfinsihed profiles then buying a $100 player that does superb upconverting of DVDs that you can dump in your bedroom if anything goes bad.

I think you are very unrealistic.

When my potential HD-DVD player loses and has no more movies out on it, and then you start to see old HD-DVD movies come out on Blu Ray.

I'm not risking buying a piece of hardware that won't be supported if it loses.

Why am I going to order from the states? Import tax and the plug needs to have voltage convertor slapped on it.

Consistency is the key, 100k in one day isn't enough.

But that was only 1 sale. It wasn't meant to be constant. Now at these new prices it's gonna be as consistent as it can be, cause no sane person would pass on HD player when they can get it for the same price as better DVD player.

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+Audioboxer    2,876
Listen, you are just looking for excuse. There's absolutely no reason not to buy HD DVD player as it is an excellent DVD player as well and it's dirt cheap. The prices in Canada are going to be at $100 as well. So please, at least TRY to be objective.

I would be more afraid at pay $400 for somethign that can't watch 30%-40% of content with unfinsihed profiles then buying a $100 player that does superb upconverting of DVDs that you can dump in your bedroom if anything goes bad.

I think you are very unrealistic.

Wtf do I want with a DVD player? I have about 6 of those in the house not to mention a PS3. I also kind of bought into the HD market to play HD movies, not upscaled DVD's which to me is an afterthought. It's nice but when I only have 2 HDTVs in the house (the remaining TV's SD), upscaling my DVD's doesn't matter that much.

But anyway for the record, my PS3 upscales in my room, and my Sony Home Cinema System downstairs upscales DVDs on the main living room TV.

I would be more afraid at pay $400 for somethign that can't watch 30%-40% of content with unfinsihed profiles then buying a $100 player that does superb upconverting of DVDs that you can dump in your bedroom if anything goes bad.

That is why I bought a PS3 with profile 1.1 and soon to be profile 2.0 support.

My PS3 is in my bedroom by the way, and I actually stream a lot of my movies, quite nifty.

I think im quite the realistic guy with my choices :happy: ;)

ps. I love your guess of 30-40% of content.

Annnnnnd for the record AGAIN, I praised the prices of HD-DVD many times, I think I've made myself clear im not buying into it due to where HD-DVD is in the market, not due to the prices.

Edited by Audioboxer

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TruckWEB    480
I think you are missing my point. We already HAD 1 format. Who gives the right to anyone to judge Toshiba now for fighting for their format now? To buy off studios, to give away players? How is this different then what Blu-ray did in the beginning?

I mean it's extremely silly to push this agenda when we already had this thing solved but yet somehow nobody is point fingers at BDA. I don't understand.

Let me remind you that PS3 owners (btw, the 90% of Blu-Ray customers) would not really be hurt at all as they would still get games and stuff on it. So it's double standard all the way.

When DVD came to life, everyone agreed on the standard, the format, the capacity, region coding, ..... Everyone, CE and Studios.

When Toshiba created HD-DVD, did they get EVERYONE on board? No... Did they already know that something else was in the air? YES. So they came out first, but it was far from the "standard".

Did it ever occured to Toshiba and Sony to talk about merging to create only 1 format? Probably, but big ego was in the way.... So now we deal with 2 format. Stupid.

But lets not declare HD-DVD the rightfull winner because it was out first. FROM day 1, not everybody was supporting the format. This is FAR from the DVD story.

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Boz    1,324
When DVD came to life, everyone agreed on the standard, the format, the capacity, region coding, ..... Everyone, CE and Studios.

When Toshiba created HD-DVD, did they get EVERYONE on board? No... Did they already know that something else was in the air? YES. So they came out first, but it was far from the "standard".

Did it ever occured to Toshiba and Sony to talk about merging to create only 1 format? Probably, but big ego was in the way.... So now we deal with 2 format. Stupid.

But lets not declare HD-DVD the rightfull winner because it was out first. FROM day 1, not everybody was supporting the format. This is FAR from the DVD story.

So what's the difference with Blu-Ray? Do you know that Blu-Ray was never intended to replace DVD, it was intended to compliment HD DVD in the form it was then (red laser). Do you understand that DVD Forum consisted of a bunch of companies voted and did not agree on Blu-Ray as it was not finished, it was too expensive. It's not just Toshiba, majority vote was supporting HD DVD not Blu-Ray.

Neither had support from everybody, so came out first does matter. Second, BDA themselves said they had to rush Blu-Ray in unfinished state so they wouldn't lose. HD DVD came out as fully featured format that has not changed at all since it came out with only exception of adding TL 51gb disc standard that should be coming out soon. THe format itself has more compatibilty allowing greater value to consumers with greater possibility of smooth transition.

Tell me, how can anyone say that HD DVD was not the finished and the full HD standard and that Blu-Ray didn't come out and screwed everyone who wanted HD.

I think that people have problems remembering and are too biased to see that everything that's happening today was done even worse by Blu-Ray. At least with HD DVD we had a full and finished format from start and with Blu-Ray, even today we have unfinished - work in progress format.

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Boz    1,324
ps. I love your guess of 30-40% of content.

It's not a guess.. HD DVD with Universal, Paramount, Dreamworks, Weinstein and a few smaller studios has between 35-40% of movie catalog. It's a fact. I've posted numerous times simple numbers from catalog of each company. Warner accounts for about 20% of movie catalog not more. THe numbers were 50:50 prior to Warner and now it's about 60:40 but if you include some other smaller subsidiaries of Warner it falls just below 40% for HD DVD.

So no, it's not a guess, it's a plain fact by numbers you are free to count yourself Wikipedia, IMDB are your friend.

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+Audioboxer    2,876
So what's the difference with Blu-Ray? Do you know that Blu-Ray was never intended to replace DVD, it was intended to compliment HD DVD in the form it was then (red laser). Do you understand that DVD Forum consisted of a bunch of companies voted and did not agree on Blu-Ray as it was not finished, it was too expensive. It's not just Toshiba, majority vote was supporting HD DVD not Blu-Ray.

Neither had support from everybody, so came out first does matter. Second, BDA themselves said they had to rush Blu-Ray in unfinished state so they wouldn't lose. HD DVD came out as fully featured format that has not changed at all since it came out with only exception of adding TL 51gb disc standard that should be coming out soon. THe format itself has more compatibilty allowing greater value to consumers with greater possibility of smooth transition.

Tell me, how can anyone say that HD DVD was not the finished and the full HD standard and that Blu-Ray didn't come out and screwed everyone who wanted HD.

I think that people have problems remembering and are too biased to see that everything that's happening today was done even worse by Blu-Ray. At least with HD DVD we had a full and finished format from start and with Blu-Ray, even today we have unfinished - work in progress format.

I'm certainly not saying that and I don't think many others are.

We can't help Toshiba plain and simply sucked at marketing/getting on top of things and let a unfinished product beat them.

I support the format that has the greatest potential to end the war, and as of today, that is currently Blu Ray.

It might of helped or been a start for HD-DVD if I could've easily picked them up in the high street stores. Yeah Yeah, online shopping, im making a general comment about the state of the UK.

It's not a guess.. HD DVD with Universal, Paramount, Dreamworks, Weinstein and a few smaller studios has between 35-40% of movie catalog. It's a fact. I've posted numerous times simple numbers from catalog of each company. Warner accounts for about 20% of movie catalog not more. THe numbers were 50:50 prior to Warner and now it's about 60:40 but if you include some other smaller subsidiaries of Warner it falls just below 40% for HD DVD.

So no, it's not a guess, it's a plain fact by numbers you are free to count yourself Wikipedia, IMDB are your friend.

Oh well maybe its right, but does that then mean with HD-DVD you can't watch 60% of the content? :/

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ctebah    3,161
There are always at least three sides to format war discussions: red, blue and neither. In the "neither" camp, it's often cited that the total numbers in HDM are so small compared to, say, DVD that HDM just doesn't matter. But DVD has a ten-year head start on HDM, so it's not really a fair comparison. When viewing growth since inception, aggressive promotions in Q4 2007 actually put HDM's growth ahead of DVD's. We already got a hint of this at the BDA press conference, where a graph showed that HDM is in a similar growth trend to DVD and VHS, but it bears repeating -- in the big picture, HDM is doing just fine. But whatever your "side" in the war, you have to admit that HDM growth has been built upon two formats. So the question becomes what happens to growth if one format disappears versus both sides continuing on? We think mainstream adoption will require one format to emerge and the increased volume will outweigh any negative backlash from adopters of the losing format; what about you?

an interesting atricle over at engadgethd.

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Dazog    9

Blu-Ray can keep fox and there awesome MPEG2 encodes, they are just garbage.

So far almost all there releases have had horrible Video encodes, not to mention ok sound.

Read all the review sites, they all agree FOX is in it for the Copy protection, not for better picture and sound for it's customers.

End Rant.

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Coldgunner    12
Blu-Ray can keep fox and there awesome MPEG2 encodes, they are just garbage.

So far almost all there releases have had horrible Video encodes, not to mention ok sound.

Read all the review sites, they all agree FOX is in it for the Copy protection, not for better picture and sound for it's customers.

End Rant.

have you seen a fox blu ray? the simpsons for example uses avc (or vc-1, can't remember) and its absolutely perfect. the bd's I have that are mpeg2 have no loss in clarity compared to the others.

fox is in it for the copy protection, they never said otherwise, one major factor as to why they will never go red.

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