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[official] Next Generation HD Format General Discussion

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shakey_snake    1
Netflix is so stupid for doing that. If anything, they could gain a lot by keeping HD DVD. All the people who have HD DVD players won't just get rid of them, but a lot will stop buying HD DVDs. With something like netflix they could still rent any movies they want rather than buying all of them. It's just a totally illogical business decision on their part. If anything, the slow decline of HD DVD could easily give a company like netflix more business.

I dunno. Netflix is like any business; they want to avoid putting money into a sinking format.

Plus, like any business, it's advantageous for them for the war to end, so that consumers can buy Blu with confidence, which will cause production rates to go up and prices can go down.

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Coldgunner    12

it also clears shelf space for a bigger range on bd titles. more range = more choice = more money

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+StevoFC    21

If anything Netflix wants people to buy less movies and primarily use their service for all of their needs. And the shelfspace reason is totally irrelevant. They have hundreds of warehouses I'm sure all over the US. Getting rid of HD DVD only is limiting what consumers will be able to get right now considering there are hundreds of HD DVD exclusives right now already out. Netflix is making the same amount of money regardless of what format it is you are getting a movie on.

I used to have netflix about 2 or 3 years ago and i was considering getting it again. With HD DVD looking as bad as it does lately I planned on using Netflix to rent the movies for it (and Blu Ray) instead. I'm sure I wasn't the only person considering to do that.

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ctebah    3,161
If anything Netflix wants people to buy less movies and primarily use their service for all of their needs. And the shelfspace reason is totally irrelevant. They have hundreds of warehouses I'm sure all over the US. Getting rid of HD DVD only is limiting what consumers will be able to get right now considering there are hundreds of HD DVD exclusives right now already out. Netflix is making the same amount of money regardless of what format it is you are getting a movie on.

I have a hard time believing that. Netflix is a company, and just like any other company they are looking to make lots of money. If they were going to loose money by switching to blu-ray only, I don't see them doing that. I think they are doing what a lot of companies have been doing for the past two weeks by switching to blu-ray, and that is giving their customers a clear choice in the HD format.

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NateB1    75
Netflix is so stupid for doing that. If anything, they could gain a lot by keeping HD DVD. All the people who have HD DVD players won't just get rid of them, but a lot will stop buying HD DVDs. With something like netflix they could still rent any movies they want rather than buying all of them. It's just a totally illogical business decision on their part. If anything, the slow decline of HD DVD could easily give a company like netflix more business.

I know a number of Netflix subscribers that will be canceling their accounts because of this. Hopefully Netflix will reconsider.

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+StevoFC    21
I have a hard time believing that. Netflix is a company, and just like any other company they are looking to make lots of money. If they were going to loose money by switching to blu-ray only, I don't see them doing that. I think they are doing what a lot of companies have been doing for the past two weeks by switching to blu-ray, and that is giving their customers a clear choice in the HD format.

That makes absolutely no sense. A rental company like netflix can only lose customers by doing something like this. There is absolutely no gain for them from this. How hard is that to understand?

With over 1,000,000 HD DVD players sold none of these people have any reason to use Netflix for their HD rental purposes unless they also have a Blu Ray player.

I for one would never even consider going back to Netflix now that they won't carry HD DVD movies and I even have Blu Ray.

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DrCheese    103

I'm going to guess that blu-ray's anti scratch protection went someway towards this decision. DVD's and HD-DVD's damage pretty easy and become unplayable. There's only so many times that the disc can be shaved. I can't provide any sources at the moment but I've read that the lifespan of a blu-ray disc in rental is much longer and problem free due to the enforced anti scratch protection.

Plus I'm sure this is like every other retailer that's gone to one format only, they want to be able to focus marketing and resources on a single format rather than two.

There is absolutely no gain for them from this. How hard is that to understand?

See above, they can now focus resources on purchasing a single format and buy more of a title than spreading it across two. Now they can ramp up the marketing for it as well.

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shakey_snake    1

Stevo, if you were responding to my comment I think you misunderstood me.

Netflix is making the same amount of money regardless of what format it is you are getting a movie on.
...which is why it's important for them to be able to purchase the discs that they rent as cheaply as possible, hence:
Plus, like any business, it's advantageous for them for the war to end, so that consumers can buy [into the] Blu [format] with confidence, which will cause production rates to go up and prices can go down.

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+StevoFC    21
See above, they can now focus resources on purchasing a single format and buy more of a title than spreading it across two. Now they can ramp up the marketing for it as well.

What marketing are you refering to?

They now lose the prospect of 35% of the HD market.

They are completely limiting their new customers by doing this.

While HD movie prices stay up, people are more likely to rent them. Netflix is not a normal retail business model. This is the best time for Netflix to cash in.

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draklin    465
What marketing are you refering to?

They now lose the prospect of 35% of the HD market.

They are completely limiting their new customers by doing this.

While HD movie prices stay up, people are more likely to rent them. Netflix is not a normal retail business model. This is the best time for Netflix to cash in.

Yes but you need to look through their eyes and see the long term. Yes there are 1 Million HD-DVD players out there, but with all the current news, it seems that HD-DVD will die very soon. So, that 1 million will only get smaller. BD on the other hand will only get bigger as any new buyer will be getting BD. So it makes sense to focus on the winner.

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+Audioboxer    2,876

Would it not be costly for netflix to stock HD DVD titles when the Blu Ray title is far more popular?

For example on multiplatform releases, say 1 of the HD DVD titles is hardly requested, but on Blu Ray it's fairly popular. You have one stock sitting doing nothing, and the other one being used.

I don't see why Netflix would even continue to support a losing format regardless of customer base - The way they see it is everyone will have to migrate to Blu Ray anyway, so wheres the loss when all the market owns Blu Ray?

You can say people will continue to own HD DVD players, but you can sure bet if those who own HD DVD players right now are interested in their HD movies, they will own a Blu Ray player now/soon/in the distant future.... and therefore Netflix dropping HD DVD support means squat as the market will be Blu.

Those who are stubborn and say I will refuse to use Netflix even although I have a Blu Ray player, will be in the small minority.

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jerzdawg    338
Yes but you need to look through their eyes and see the long term. Yes there are 1 Million HD-DVD players out there, but with all the current news, it seems that HD-DVD will die very soon. So, that 1 million will only get smaller. BD on the other hand will only get bigger as any new buyer will be getting BD. So it makes sense to focus on the winner.

read that again to make sure it makes sense... do you believe these people will just toss out their players?... as mentioned before... people will be less likely to purchase a hd-dvd since its a dying format... however... renting them doesnt cost them anything more than the monthly fee...

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draklin    465
read that again to make sure it makes sense... do you believe these people will just toss out their players?... as mentioned before... people will be less likely to purchase a hd-dvd since its a dying format... however... renting them doesnt cost them anything more than the monthly fee...

toss them out? I would be surprised if they did. However, if the number isn't going up then it will only go down right? May take a while, but how many of that million will still be around in 1 year, 2 years, 3 years... This is assuming that HD-DVD is dead. Also the other thing you need to consider is that when they rent the disks, they get damaged. So they will need to be replaced. If everyone stops making the HD-DVD disks, it will get harder and harder to supply those which means Netflix will end up in worse position as people will be upset that they can only get some of the movies on HD-DVD that they could get before.

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Coldgunner    12

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Mic...old_You_So/1460

Michael Bay on Blu-ray: "Told You So"

Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 11:00 AM ET

Tags: Michael Bay (all tags)

Never one to hold his tongue, Michael Bay is speaking out again on the high-def format war, reminding that he backed Blu-ray long before the format's most recent wave of victories.

The outspoken 'Transformers' director's latest comments came earlier this week at an award ceremony held by the Visual Effects Society, where he presented the award for animated character in a motion picture.

"Blu-ray’s better, and I told everyone," said Bay. "I was very vocal about it. I knew HD [DVD] was not going to make it."

As longtime readers of this site will remember, Bay made headlines last August when he threatened to back out of 'Transformers 2' after it was announced that the film's distributor (Paramount/DreamWorks) would drop Blu-ray support in favor of HD DVD.

Although Bay recanted his remarks before 'Transformers' hit HD DVD, he ultimately returned to his pro-Blu-ray stance, stating that the Sony-backed format was "where my money is."

Taking a virtual victory lap Sunday night, Bay issued his first public statement on the format war following Warner's announcement that it would drop HD DVD support, saying: "Am I thrilled? It really wasn’t my fight, but remember what I said in the press? I was kind of saying HD [DVD]’s going to lose... No one believed me."

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soniqstylz    1,048
read that again to make sure it makes sense... do you believe these people will just toss out their players?... as mentioned before... people will be less likely to purchase a hd-dvd since its a dying format... however... renting them doesnt cost them anything more than the monthly fee...

The fewer outlets for HD-DVD, the faster Universal and Paramount convert, and the faster this "war" goes away. And then Netflix is left with stock.

Some of you seem to be under the impression that this "war" is going to last a significant amount of time, but I'm telling you, by year's end, those 1,000,000 HD-DVD players (not users, keep that mind, since I can guarantee you a good chunk of those users have more than 1 player at home) will basically be upconverting DVD players, since there will not be any new software to play on them.

Also remember, the vast vast majority of Netflix users are renting regular DVD's, so losing out on a fraction of a fraction of a niche of subscribers isn't really hurting them at all. Where are they going to go, Hollywood Video?

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+Audioboxer    2,876
Toshiba to drop HD DVD, sources say

Company says no decision has been made

The format war has turned into a format death watch.

Toshiba is widely expected to pull the plug on its HD DVD format sometime in the coming weeks, reliable industry sources say, after a rash of retail defections that followed Warner Home Video's announcement in early January that it would support only the rival Blu-ray Disc format after May.

Officially, no decision has been made, insists Jodi Sally, vp of marketing for Toshiba America Consumer Products. "Based on its technological advancements, we continue to believe HD DVD is the best format for consumers, given the value and consistent quality inherent in our player offerings," she said.

But she hinted that something's in the air. "Given the market developments in the past month," she said, "Toshiba will continue to study the market impact and the value proposition for consumers, particularly in light of our recent price reductions on all HD DVD players."

Immediately after the Warner announcement, the HD DVD North American Promotional Group canceled its Consumer Electronics Show presentation. The following week, data collected by the NPD Group revealed Blu-ray took in 93% of all hardware sales for that week.

Toshiba subsequently fired back, drastically cutting its HD DVD player prices by as much as half, effective Jan. 15. But a hoped-for consumer sales surge never materialized; retail point-of-sale data collected by the NPD Group for the week ending Jan. 26 still showed Blu-ray Disc players ahead by a wide margin, 65% to 28%.

Software sales have declined as well. The latest Nielsen VideoScan First Alert sales data show the top-selling Blu-ray Disc title for the week, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment's "Across the Universe," sold more than three times as many copies the week ending Feb. 10 as the top HD DVD seller, Universal Studios Home Entertainment's "Elizabeth: The Golden Age." Blu-ray Disc titles also accounted for 81% of all high-def disc sales for the week, with HD DVD at just 19%.

Toshiba had been pitching its discounted HD DVD players toward the standard DVD crowd as well as high-def enthusiasts, noting in its ad message that the new players would make DVDs look a lot better as well. And as a last-ditch effort, the company ran an ad during the Super Bowl -- a 30-second spot that reportedly cost $2.7 million.

But in the end, sources say, the substantial loss Toshiba is incurring with each HD DVD player sold -- a figure sources say could be as high as several hundred dollars -- coupled with a series of high-profile retail defections has driven the company to at last concede defeat.

Source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/conten...14b889b10defb59

Yay or nay?

I say yeah, it probably will happen in the near future.

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soniqstylz    1,048

Ha!

I just posted that same article in the HD-DVD "speculation" section.

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ctebah    3,161

this may very well be true.

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Avgrog    0

Even if HD DVD gets dropped I'll still have the best DVD upconversion going. The upconverted movies on the Toshiba A2 look almost as good as the HD DVD and Blu junk. I also have a Blu junk player a Samsung BD-P1400 it is junk it can't even upconvert DVD. It will be in the dump when revision 2 comes out. The Sony BD 300 isn't even HDMI 1.3 its 1.2 more of Sony putting out junk and passing it off as good enogh. I was in Best Buy today and they had a demo of standrad DVD and Blu junk side by side. I've never seen a standrad DVD put out a picture that bad. So its a fake demo. Even VHS was better than what there showing as DVD. I will just go back to buying standard DVDs as they or as good as Blu ray when played on my HD DVD and it only cost $98.00.

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Achal    0

oops...delete this please...accident lol

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Coldgunner    12
Even if HD DVD gets dropped I'll still have the best DVD upconversion going. The upconverted movies on the Toshiba A2 look almost as good as the HD DVD and Blu junk. I also have a Blu junk player a Samsung BD-P1400 it is junk it can't even upconvert DVD. It will be in the dump when revision 2 comes out. The Sony BD 300 isn't even HDMI 1.3 its 1.2 more of Sony putting out junk and passing it off as good enogh. I was in Best Buy today and they had a demo of standrad DVD and Blu junk side by side. I've never seen a standrad DVD put out a picture that bad. So its a fake demo. Even VHS was better than what there showing as DVD. I will just go back to buying standard DVDs as they or as good as Blu ray when played on my HD DVD and it only cost $98.00.

Chain stores don''t really know how to set up proper demo's, don't trust them. Also most BD users are using the PS3, may be worth considering one instead of another standalone?

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kak    0
Even if HD DVD gets dropped I'll still have the best DVD upconversion going. The upconverted movies on the Toshiba A2 look almost as good as the HD DVD and Blu junk. I also have a Blu junk player a Samsung BD-P1400 it is junk it can't even upconvert DVD. It will be in the dump when revision 2 comes out. The Sony BD 300 isn't even HDMI 1.3 its 1.2 more of Sony putting out junk and passing it off as good enogh. I was in Best Buy today and they had a demo of standrad DVD and Blu junk side by side. I've never seen a standrad DVD put out a picture that bad. So its a fake demo. Even VHS was better than what there showing as DVD. I will just go back to buying standard DVDs as they or as good as Blu ray when played on my HD DVD and it only cost $98.00.

Thang you for your wonderful insight and subject post! Now lets see..

  • Blu-Ray and HD-DVD movies look hands down better than upconverted movies. If you argue, you either are not getting full 1080i/p on your television or you have a ridiculously bad television.
  • Your BD-P1400 will not be 'in the dump' when their profile 1.1/2.0 players are released. Your movies will continue to play no matter how much Toshiba would have liked them not to. You will not have access to some extras, oh noes!
  • You could have easily told if it was a fake feed via connection on the DVD player. It would have also been worth noting if it was an upconverting player. I doubt it was so they could make it an easier sell to go Blu.
  • $98 is a ridiculously low price point for the cost of the hardware. The only reason we ever saw a $100~ player was due to the fact that Toshiba was getting pretty desperate to get units out the door since BD was slaughtering their format. If it weren't for that, we'd still be looking at $250 at least.

If you don't want HDM, don't buy it. Btw, the A2 upconversion looks no where near as good as the 1080i on it or full 1080p on my PS3.

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MGS4-SS    0
Even if HD DVD gets dropped I'll still have the best DVD upconversion going. The upconverted movies on the Toshiba A2 look almost as good as the HD DVD and Blu junk. I also have a Blu junk player a Samsung BD-P1400 it is junk it can't even upconvert DVD. It will be in the dump when revision 2 comes out. The Sony BD 300 isn't even HDMI 1.3 its 1.2 more of Sony putting out junk and passing it off as good enogh. I was in Best Buy today and they had a demo of standrad DVD and Blu junk side by side. I've never seen a standrad DVD put out a picture that bad. So its a fake demo. Even VHS was better than what there showing as DVD. I will just go back to buying standard DVDs as they or as good as Blu ray when played on my HD DVD and it only cost $98.00.

Aw yes all mighty 1 time poster, you speak the truth.

When you get off the sinking boat of love that you have with the HDDVD format, then you might see the truth.

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Coldgunner    12

no business in their right mind would stick with a format that only has 20% of the market, where they can opt in to the format with 80%.

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+Audioboxer    2,876

My parents are now looking to invest in HD.

Mainly as before I got my HDTV in my room, my PS3 was hooked up downstairs to the HDTV and they loved watching stuff in HD (Y) (they're stuck with an upscaling DVD player just now :p Although they have on occassion watched some stuff in my room in HD).

My TV came, my PS3 left downstairs and went upstairs :p

Funny thing is my dad went online and groaned at prices, but he realises "new" technology is always expensive and then came to ask me which player to buy...

I said "PS3" and he laughed saying we don't need another games console... Oh the irony, a lot of people buying a PS3 are buying it to play movies, not play games :p

My parents aren't "anti" gaming, my dad likes his GT and Tiger Woods, and my mum plays all the usual "mum" games - Card/board games (I recently got her some 2008 3D edition of Monopoly and she loves it!).... however they still find it hard to grasp buying a PS3 is the best option for movies/blu ray right now :laugh:

Anyway, we may be seeing another PS3 in the house in the upcoming weeks - I told my parents to buy it second hand off ebay to save a bit of money, as the console is rock solid, any 40GB model purchased off ebay in the UK will still have somewhat of a warranty left (hasn't been out a year), and they may get some bundled in content all for less than retail.

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