Simple Prayer Brings Man Back to Life

[CelticWhisper]

And what, precisely, is to say that another doctor who used the same paddles with the same charge at the exact same point in time wouldn't have had the exact same results without wasting time on prayer?

How much sodium did the patient eat on average? Sounds to me like there was enough in his body to act as a conductor when the shock went through. Triggered an action potential (traveling wave of neuronal membrane depolarization driven by voltage-gated sodium ion channels) that kick-started his heart.

If I'm in critical condition I go to the hospital. Not to a church. I do this for a reason: because hospitals are home to (supposedly) the best and brightest of my country's medical schools, people who understand the human body and know how to fix it through means of their knowledge and the tools available to them. If I wanted someone to pray for me, I'd go to church. But I already said that if I'm sick or dying, I go to the hospital so that medical personnel can do their best to fix me and keep me alive.

I don't know what this doctor was thinking, but even playing armchair-biologist, I'm willing to bet a lot of money the answer to why this was possible has an electrochemical and/or neurochemical basis.

[Hum]

How much sodium did the patient eat on average? Sounds to me like there was enough in his body to act as a conductor when the shock went through. Triggered an action potential (traveling wave of neuronal membrane depolarization driven by voltage-gated sodium ion channels) that kick-started his heart.

Yes -- clearly his heavy soda pop consumtion saved him. :laugh:

[acies]

Silly, but interesting. I'd bet if that guy didn't come back to life this wouldn't be news.

The 'science' I always read says, coming back to life after this long is not possible, and certainly NOT without brain damage.

It's very possible, and has been done.

Atheists like to misrepresent theists don't they.

Religious: "I don't know, lets find out how/why God did it."

Fixed.

But your skipping a step, why do you even think it was God at all?? Maybe it was the way he had his shoes tied that day, or maybe one of the nurses had super powers and was to shy to say anything. Why God... Because he prayed?? Then why did he need to shock him??

[Impact]

Wow, I think that you cannot deny that was a miracle. If you are already starting to decompose, then the only way you are coming back is if God wants you to! There are many unexplainable miracles that happen in the ER's of some hospitals because of doctors that had the faith to pray and God intervened. It sure seems like most of the atheist/scientist (don't mean to stereotype, but both don't believe in God), just always put down all the miracle stories because they say that "science could have explained it" or "there isn't enough evidence." Well, I think they would be HARD-pressed to find a way to prove it by science even if it happened in a lab right in front of them.

Basically, what all the people like ripgut and others are saying is "science can explain everything, so it surely could explain this if the circumstances were better." Guys, there are some things science cannot explain, and this is one of them! Miracles sometimes just aren't explainable.

[getmeawhopper]

I vote for revoking his medical license, who's with me!

[Impact]

I vote for revoking his medical license, who's with me!

And you would do this because......?

He heals people....?

[xinary]

I vote for revoking his medical license, who's with me!

LOL /equipflameshield

[+.Vamp Subscriber²]

Wow, I think that you cannot deny that was a miracle. If you are already starting to decompose, then the only way you are coming back is if God wants you to! There are many unexplainable miracles that happen in the ER's of some hospitals because of doctors that had the faith to pray and God intervened. It sure seems like most of the atheist/scientist (don't mean to stereotype, but both don't believe in God), just always put down all the miracle stories because they say that "science could have explained it" or "there isn't enough evidence." Well, I think they would be HARD-pressed to find a way to prove it by science even if it happened in a lab right in front of them.

Basically, what all the people like ripgut and others are saying is "science can explain everything, so it surely could explain this if the circumstances were better." Guys, there are some things science cannot explain, and this is one of them! Miracles sometimes just aren't explainable.

Science does not claim to be able to explain everything, far from it.

And you can't say this couldn't have been explained. It wasn't given a chance to be explained because it was automatically attributed to religion. Had the situation and man been thoroughly examined there may have been an answer for it. There may not have been, but we don't know because the oppertunity was never given. So we can't attribute this to either science or a miracle, because the answer was assumed, not looked into.

[shakey]

wait, why are they saying prayer worked? i thought it was the last shock to his system that brought him back to life. If the doctor had just prayed, turned around, and the dude jumped to life, then yes, prayer worked. But they freaken zapped him, so i would have to say it was science and electricity at the right moment that saved him.

[CelticWhisper]

Yes -- clearly his heavy soda pop consumtion saved him. :laugh:

Woohoo! *chugs a gallon of Bawls*

Wow, I think that you cannot deny that was a miracle. If you are already starting to decompose, then the only way you are coming back is if God wants you to! There are many unexplainable miracles that happen in the ER's of some hospitals because of doctors that had the faith to pray and God intervened. It sure seems like most of the atheist/scientist (don't mean to stereotype, but both don't believe in God), just always put down all the miracle stories because they say that "science could have explained it" or "there isn't enough evidence." Well, I think they would be HARD-pressed to find a way to prove it by science even if it happened in a lab right in front of them.

Basically, what all the people like ripgut and others are saying is "science can explain everything, so it surely could explain this if the circumstances were better." Guys, there are some things science cannot explain, and this is one of them! Miracles sometimes just aren't explainable.

You're jumping the gun. First it needs to be determined that it was even a miracle to begin with. Until all scientific avenues have been explored, we cannot say that there is no scientific explanation.

Until it can be proven to be a miracle, it must not be treated as one. If no concrete explanation can be found, it must remain classified as "unknown." The only true, honest answer for something we do not know is to say that we do not know it. It is okay not to know things as long as we continue to study them in an effort to know them eventually.

And you would do this because......?

He heals people....?

This is a good point. I'm not for revoking the man's medical license, as he did heal the patient through conventional means. He just added the meaningless time-waste wrapper of prayer. If he had attempted to replace electrical shock with prayer, then I say revoke his medical license and send him to prison, possibly with the additional sentence to be beaten over the head once a day with a copy of On the Origin of Species.

As long as he's doing his job as a doctor by conventional, medically-tested methods he should be permitted to continue practicing medicine. If he believes that it was the work of his god, I don't have a problem with that in and of itself. If he tells the patient that god healed them, or if he starts putting god before tried-and-tested medical procedure, then I say hang him out to dry.

[Impact]

You have to admit that a shock after an hour of a person being dead wouldn't work under normal circumstances. You can always come and say after the fact, high sodium levels blah blah blah made him survive, but you must know deep inside, this would not have happened normally.

[Skyfrog]

http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2007/s07070094.htm

This same story, from July 15, 2007. Other than this news site that seems to have just picked up on it all this time later it seems to only appear on Christian oriented sites like Landover Baptist. I mean come on. Oh and he was decomposing and "black from death" after only 40 minutes? Sorry but the whole thing sounds like a chain letter hoax, it's ridiculous. If this even happened, was the guy actually dead? All we have is the word of a fundie doctor. Sorry to sound skeptical but I'd like a wee bit more proof than that, but I haven't found any.

[xinary]

http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2007/s07070094.htm

This same story, from July 15, 2007. Other than this news site that seems to have just picked up on it all this time later it seems to only appear on Christian oriented sites like Landover Baptist. I mean come on. Oh and he was decomposing and "black from death" after only 40 minutes? Sorry but the whole thing sounds like a chain letter hoax, it's ridiculous.

yea you don't turn "black from death" in 40 minutes....

hell they found heath ledger hours after he died and he still had color in his skin.

This is just a neat story twisted into religious propoganda..what else is new..move along.

[shakey]

if it was prayer, i guess the doctor chose the right god to pray to then huh? what about all the other religions that have been around sooo much longer than christianity. and if he had turned black in areas, thats normally a sign for amputation to be done on the dead limbs....

[Impact]

http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2007/s07070094.htm

This same story, from July 15, 2007. Other than this news site that seems to have just picked up on it all this time later it seems to only appear on Christian oriented sites like Landover Baptist. I mean come on. Oh and he was decomposing and "black from death" after only 40 minutes? Sorry but the whole thing sounds like a chain letter hoax, it's ridiculous. If this even happened, was the guy actually dead? All we have is the word of a fundie doctor. Sorry to sound skeptical but I'd like a wee bit more proof than that, but I haven't found any.

You call Landover Baptist a Christian site? Are you freaking kidding me? It's sole purpose is to make fun of religion and most likely chose to pretend to be a christian church since it's the biggest religion on the planet.

[abcdefg]

but you must know deep inside, this would not have happened normally.

Deep inside I feel brown substance that normally ejects through the backport and after reading this miraculous story I suddenly feel urge to unload.

[Skyfrog]

You call Landover Baptist a Christian site? Are you freaking kidding me? It's sole purpose is to make fun of religion and most likely chose to pretend to be a christian church since it's the biggest religion on the planet.

My mistake then, I've never heard of it before. It was just one of the Google results that turned up.

[PermaSt0ne]

first: as for this being a maricle, the Vatican has only recognized like 4 events in human history as maricles. i doubt this will be one of them

2nd: this article is pure bullsh*t

another one of those "god is good" chain letter stories that are made up

you don't turn black after 40 minutes of heart failure and they certainly don't try to revive you for 40 minute straight. you have massive brain damage after 5 minutes of no oxygen so there's no point after that

the only thing that makes your skin black are frost bite, snake venom, burns and some chemical reactions

[CelticWhisper]

You have to admit that a shock after an hour of a person being dead wouldn't work under normal circumstances. You can always come and say after the fact, high sodium levels blah blah blah made him survive, but you must know deep inside, this would not have happened normally.

I know "deep inside" that I don't have all the facts. Action potentials and neural synapses are not a "blah blah blah" matter, they happen to be the mechanism by which the nervous system controls muscles like the heart.

What I do not HAVE to admit, but am willing to agree with, is that it is uncommon for a shock to work an hour after a patient is pronounced dead. Whether or not this is for lack of trying, however, I do not know. I wouldn't imagine many doctors would even think to give it a shot after that long, but then I'm not a medical researcher.

I happen to pride myself on not knowing much, if anything, "deep inside." There's no evidence there and little logic. There are things I feel deep inside like love for my brother, mother, father, best friend, girlfriend, etc. But the unusual resuscitation of this man isn't a matter of feeling, it's a matter of knowing. You get to know things by examining evidence and learning facts. Until all the facts are known, it must be said that we do not know why shocking him worked so long after he was pronounced dead. By saying "it was a miracle" we are discouraging the acquisition of information that may lead to an understanding of how this worked. Understanding how this worked may help save more lives. By simply attributing the recovery to god, a factor over which we have no control, we are running the risk of not being able to save more lives this way. Alternatively, if we study the living crap out of this (as we should) to learn how it worked, then we may very realistically be able to save others who are in similar conditions to this patient. At that point, hammering another nail into god's coffin will really just be icing on the delicious cake of preserved human life.

[XerXis]

yawn

[Impact]

Understanding how this worked may help save more lives.

I'm not a genius, but I already know how it worked. You can save more lives by praying and believing.

[Enkazin]

Wait, hang on a second. Am I the only one here that noticed the name of his 'angel' was Bob? WTF is with that? I wonder if he looks like SMilin Bob from the Enzyte commercials. Btw, I wonder if that stuff actually works, maybe he was taking it and when the 'doctor' 'prayed' to 'god' for him to rise the enzyte mistook that for him to come alive instead o fthe 'other' part of his body maybe?

[MGS4-SS]

I'm not a genius, but I already know how it worked. You can save more lives by praying and believing.

The classic bull**** argument. No offense, but I find it a hysterically ignorant stance on reality.

[CelticWhisper]

I'm not a genius, but I already know how it worked.

So you understand the physiological mechanisms at work when using electric defibrillation on a heart patient? You can explain to me the motion of actin filaments in myofibril contraction? Or the means by which an action potential travels one way down a neuron and enters channels in myocytes? Pop quiz: what molecules are released into the terminal cisternae when a motor neuron synapses with a muscle fiber and how do they get there? Bonus point: describe the interaction of actin and myosin. Answers of "Because god does it" result in a grade of F on the test.

You can save more lives by praying and believing.

Empirical evidence. Proof. Now. Or you have no credibility.

[Impact]

I'll think about the possibility about this being caused by science while you watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjXXuj-bRFY