wst50 Share Posted September 7, 2008 During the race, around 20th lap or so. He had a collision with Webber in that same chicane, and overtook him. While Hamilton was avoiding a collision, and let Kimi back into position... Link to post Share on other sites
Fourjays Veteran Share Posted September 7, 2008 Funny how you're wrong. Seems you are right. Came across that while searching for the rule against corner cutting... There isn't, specifically, a rule against corner cutting. The rule Lewis was penalised under is: 30.3 a) During practice and the race, drivers may use only the track and must at all times observe theprovisions of the Code relating to driving behaviour on circuits. Under that rule nearly everyone should be given a 25 second penalty, no? The FIA are not only incapable of reading their own rules (Valencia) but can't write them either? Seems they just make them up as they go along... Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Share Posted September 7, 2008 he was also guilty of Appendix L Chapter 4 Article 2 (g) of the international sporting code which says the same as the above quote (the track must be used), however, part (f) of the same article: f) The repetition of serious mistakes or the appearance of a lack of control over the car (such as leaving the track) may entail theexclusion of the drivers concerned. massa at silverstone anyone? Link to post Share on other sites
Fourjays Veteran Share Posted September 7, 2008 Under that rule Mike, everyone on slicks should be excluded from the race - none were really in control at all. How about the one about using unsafe tyres? Kimi's accident wouldn't have happened had he (and the rest) pitted for the right tyres. Quite simply, the entire rule book is vague. The FIA/Stewards make up their own rules according to how they feel like interpreting the rules on that particular day. It's a pathetic way to run a sport. It's the same deal in GP2 too. :/ Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Share Posted September 7, 2008 GP2 seems fairer, eg the guy who got released into another car in the pit lane in GP2 got a drive through, massa got a pointless fine now they give hamilton a penalty for something that didnt warrent one and to seem like they are consistent have supposedly handed one down to a GP2 driver doing something similar (after they did hamiltons penalty) it's also been pointed out, massa / kubica last year when they were all over the track and surrounding area racing, each one gaining advantage by going off track, and nothing was done the FIA know the rule book is vague and probably leave it that way, that way they can screw over anyone who impededs ferrari in any way. I await a penalty for kimi for using off-track areas to gain an advantage at the end of the race! Link to post Share on other sites
LewisBraid Share Posted September 7, 2008 Only just heard about hamilton, extremely annoying... he deserved to win today, is there something going on with the FIA and Ferrari?! I wonder... Link to post Share on other sites
Harlem39s Finest Share Posted September 7, 2008 hahaha hamilton got pwned, good decision, i hate that self centred idiot. Link to post Share on other sites
acedriver Share Posted September 7, 2008 FIA = Ferrari International Aid Link to post Share on other sites
kev64 Share Posted September 7, 2008 This is why I don't watch F1 anymore. :sleep: Link to post Share on other sites
Shibby Share Posted September 7, 2008 Does this mean Nakajima will get a time penalty for being a poor driver? He pulled out onto the race track, which caused lewis to move even quicker. Link to post Share on other sites
.KICK Share Posted September 8, 2008 Lets hope they win the appeal so that faith can be restored in F1 :( Link to post Share on other sites
Scazza Share Posted September 8, 2008 What about when Kimi had been over taken by Hamilton and went wide on one of the bends?? He just took the corner at a fast pace on the run off area, surely this is of the equivalent of Hamilton using the run off area of the chicane? As I am pretty sure Kimi was using the run off area to gain an advantage as if he had to rejoin the track as soon as he could he would of lost alot of speed, I believe it was just before Hamilton had to avoid Nakajima and Kimi re-took the lead....... The decision is utter bs. Link to post Share on other sites
brentaal Share Posted September 8, 2008 While Hamilton was avoiding a collision, and let Kimi back into position... Did he? Check this out. He seems to be going full speed. Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Share Posted September 8, 2008 Did he? Check this out. He seems to be going full speed. full speed? definately not. he is barely touching the throttle whilst skipping the corner, then kimi is ahead then he starts accelerating, speed != acceleration, and also from that onboard, kimi wasn't in the picture at the turn in when they were relatively close so you cant tell when kimi gets to be passing him in that video Link to post Share on other sites
brentaal Share Posted September 9, 2008 3 years ago, similar situation with Alonso (Japanese GP) http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2005/10/3701.html Alonso had some dramas as he lost ground going off in the chicane and dirtying his tyres on the 8th lap as he passed Klien. He duly let the Austrian back through then immediately re-passed him into Turn 1. However, stewards decided that the Spaniard had still gained an advantage and he was forced to slow, let the Red Bull back through and then finally re-pass for good. FYI, Alonso was well behind Klien (at least the length of one and a half vehicle), but was still forced to slow down. I guess FIA hates Alonso too. Link to post Share on other sites
bayrider Share Posted September 9, 2008 WTF was Kimi doing? He pretty much handed Hamilton the lead with a few laps to go. He's supposed to be one of the most difficult drivers to get around. Why did he stop 500M before that one turn off the long straight? It looked to me like he wanted Hamilton to rear end him so that they'd both go out. I don't agree with this decision at all though. I've always tried to defend the FIA and Ferrari to the conspirators out there, but this is getting out of hand. Link to post Share on other sites
Fourjays Veteran Share Posted September 9, 2008 That video actually shows he did not gain an advantage. If he had his foot hard on the pedal after the corner, and Kimi still came out in front (after going all the way round) and still had a 6 kph advantage over the line, then Lewis gained no advantage. You can't be slower and still gain an advantage. All the video proves is how slow the Ferrari was in the wet as Lewis was able to make-up that 6kph disadvantage down the straight easily. Loads of guys were going off-track at the start to gain an advantage at the start, although the advantage part is irrelevant according to the rules. But who follows the rules... :rolleyes: Link to post Share on other sites
OPaul Share Posted September 9, 2008 Utter nonsense (referring to Hamilton's penalty), the FIA needs to get their heads out of their asses. Whether or not Hamilton had extra moment coming out of the turn, which I personally don't think he did, R?ikk?nen did use the high friction line to gain the ground back. I usually don't get to involved in conspiracies, but this time I really think the FIA is far to biased. Hamilton gave back the position and gained it back far and square IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
DRS-Travis Share Posted September 9, 2008 The decision was made by retards, they will ruin the sport end of - Bernie needs to pull his finger out and oust the FIA. Best race ending with the best driver in 1st place, stewards didnt like the fact so they changed it.. Link to post Share on other sites
.KICK Share Posted September 9, 2008 You know, I have a feeling that they won't win the appeal. I have not heard of many appeals being won in the F1! Link to post Share on other sites
bmdixon Share Posted September 9, 2008 If they don't win then i think F1 will lose quite a lot of fans as it clearly isn't a level playing field. I have not wanted to believe that there is a conspiracy against mclaren or one in favour of ferrari but after this race i am struggling to think otherwise.... Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Share Posted September 9, 2008 If they don't win then i think F1 will lose quite a lot of fans as it clearly isn't a level playing field.I have not wanted to believe that there is a conspiracy against mclaren or one in favour of ferrari but after this race i am struggling to think otherwise.... i dont think there is one *against* mclaren, just more in the favour of ferrari. what is more dodgy is that the race control even said that lewis had let kimi retake the position in a way that was inline with the rules: McLaren have revealed that they were told twice by FIA race officials during the Belgian Grand Prix that Lewis Hamilton had given back the race lead to Kimi Raikkonen in an 'okay' manner.With the team confirming on Tuesday that they were pressing ahead with their appeal against Hamilton's 25-second penalty for gaining an unfair advantage, McLaren's F1 CEO Martin Whitmarsh claims that the team enquired twice with Race Control whether or not their driver had acted in a legitimate manner. Whitmarsh said: "From the pit wall, we then asked Race Control to confirm that they were comfortable that Lewis had allowed Kimi to repass, and they confirmed twice that they believed that the position had been given back in a manner that was 'okay'. "If Race Control had instead expressed any concern regarding Lewis's actions at that time, we would have instructed Lewis to allow Kimi to repass for a second time." source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70443 Ron Dennis even said to the ITV people after the race that Charlie Whiting was happy with what happened and said it was within the rules. When you have past drivers and people involved with safety and running F1 races saying it was fine you really do have to wonder what exactly the stewards are thinking/doing. Good to see McLaren not taking it anymore and actually trying to fight it (Y) Link to post Share on other sites
Fourjays Veteran Share Posted September 9, 2008 I've been surprised at how many Ferrari fans disagree with the penalty. Shows how messed up it is really. Good that McLaren have decided to go ahead with the appeal on the basis of race control saying it was fine. They can hardly expect Lewis to let Kimi through if he was told it was ok. :/ Although race control said exactly the same at the French GP - probably why they asked twice this time. It seems only fair to me that when you have to ask race control if something was legit (because the rules are too vague to judge on your own) that what race control says should be considered as part of the decision. Not fair to say race control only express opinion, when the rule is so vague that no-one but the stewards, at the time of the decision making, has a clue what it actually is. In that case, everyone might as well ignore the rules, race like madmen and hope they don't get a penalty. Would probably be fairer. :laugh: Link to post Share on other sites
wst50 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Did he? Check this out. He seems to be going full speed. Kimi was going to cut him up there, he'd have gone over the huge lumps of green concrete they have at the side of the track and smashed both cars up completely, if he hadn't turned left to avoid it. It's Kimis fault for not going faster (and letting himself get caught). And the incident I mention, the 'avioding dying' thing, that was not on the approach to the first corner in the chicane, but the second. Get your facts right. Link to post Share on other sites
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