Not enough space on Blu-ray for MGS4

[Tech Star]

Most people assumed that Sony’s decision to use Blu-ray as its format on the PlayStation 3 was unnecessary figuring that few, if any, games would take advantage of the 25-50GB a disc could offer. Less than 3 months from its release, Hideo Kojima has now revealed that Blu-ray’s capacity has limited what Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots could have been.

In an interview with Famitsu, Kojima revealed that Guns of the Patriots did indeed suffer cuts in order to fit the game onto a Blu-ray disc. The disc used for MGS4 is of the 50GB kind, which is roughly six times the capacity of a regular DVD, and the game has been skimped down as to only include local audio tracks and forced Metal Gear Online to be shipped on a seperate disc because of the lack of space. Kojima’s actual quote (translated from Famitsu) was: “There’s not enough space. We always talked about where to cut and what to compress.”

The Metal Gear franchise has always been known for being dialogue-heavy, but MGS4 is set to outdo its predecessors. With the stunning visuals and the possibility of an extensive amount of dialogue outstripping even a Blu-ray disc, this should leave fans excited for the final product. This bit of news should also be enough of a deterrent for Xbox 360 hopefuls that keep hoping that Metal Gear Solid 4 will be defecting to the Xbox 360 because it would be hard to imagine the game being 6 discs long.

News Source: IGN

[spenser.d]

I find this to be a load of ****, personally. There's no excuse for a game to be using up so much space. Kojima seems to be the only guy on the planet having problems with space, and most of the other devs are using 9GB discs.

I would also like to point out that this story was posted in the MGS4 thread.

-Spenser

[Mathachew Veteran]

I'm sure there is a ton of CG video they could've slimmed down on. There was a ton of video and audio dialog in the GameCube version of MGS, and a great deal of that could've been removed because it just sucked (who cares about what's her name's poor childhood?). I wonder what sobby, pathetic dialog they'll include in this one. My guess will be it come from Meryl, or maybe Vamp, in the process of dying, assuming he dies.

Don't get me wrong, I love the MGS franchise, but good night there was a lot of crap included in MGS1 and 2 (haven't played Snake Eater yet, always keeping my eyes open for a cheap copy).

[Raa]

They need to invest in a new form of compression if all that took up 50 gigs!!

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Already posted in the official discussion thread.

Also cue "developer/Kojima" technical bashing....

Who cares what the guy wanted to use the space for, he used it. His game, his decisions, his content, ect.

The SE even comes with a MGS backstory, explaining everything about the series and it had to come on a seperate disc - That is usually something you could consider putting on the normal disc due to Blu Ray being larger than DVD. Guess not though for MGS.

[theyarecomingforyou]

More pro-PS3 propaganda. PS3 developers have been using all sorts of techniques to justify the extra space, like duplicating data at different points on the disc and avoiding compression (despite little-to-no advantage doing so). Don't get me wrong I'm a supporter of Blu-ray and large storage space and I also accept that DVD-9 is fast becoming too small but the suggestion that Blu-ray is too small is ridiculous.

Who cares what the guy wanted to use the space for, he used it. His game, his decisions, his content, ect.

I do if he is going to start complaining about it or using it to put down the X360 / PC.

[HawkMan]

My only comment to this I can come up with is "BWAHAHAHAHAHA!"

seroisuly... how much do Sony pay these guys to say **** that makes them sound like utter diots. they're game programmers, they should be smrter than this.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

I do if he is going to start complaining about it or using it to put down the X360 / PC.

No one starts thinking like that/starts raging rumours apart from 360 fans/gaming sites.

It's been confirmed PS3 exclusive quite a few times, so there really is no need for people to come in here and go "BULL**** 360 VERSION CAN BE DONE" or "HAHA NO 360 VERSION".

Anyway, im gonna kick back and read all the self proclaimed gaming developers tell Kojima and his team how it's done, you go guys!

You've clearly got more experience with making AAA games than Konami and Kojima and his team have.

[spenser.d]

Already posted in the official discussion thread.

Also cue "developer/Kojima" technical bashing....

Who cares what the guy wanted to use the space for, he used it. His game, his decisions, his content, ect.

The SE even comes with a MGS backstory, explaining everything about the series and it had to come on a seperate disc - That is usually something you could consider putting on the normal disc due to Blu Ray being larger than DVD. Guess not though for MGS.

For one, you know why people care. People like you will use this to **** on the 360 because "DVD's don't have enough space" when that's not true (this has nothing to do with wanting MGS on the 360 - I could care less, as haven't ever played an MGS game).

For another, SE's have always spanned multiple discs whether or not they need to. That's how they get off charging more for them. In most cases, the stuff on the 'bonus DVD' could fit on the game disc, but that would defeat the glamour of an SE package.

-Spenser

[Ayepecks]

What's taking up so much space? I doubt textures, maps, the engine or anything like that... is there a legitimate reason he can give? Blu-Ray holds plenty for a game.

[James123]

Rather than saying "Not enough space on Blu-Ray" he should be complaining about the speed of Blu-Ray disks, if he/other game developers didn't have to duplicate content several times across the disk so the game doesn't grind to a halt while finding the content it's looking for at Blu-Rays 2x speed I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem fitting it all on.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

For one, you know why people care. People like you will use this to **** on the 360 because "DVD's don't have enough space" when that's not true (this has nothing to do with wanting MGS on the 360 - I could care less, as haven't ever played an MGS game).

For another, SE's have always spanned multiple discs whether or not they need to. That's how they get off charging more for them. In most cases, the stuff on the 'bonus DVD' could fit on the game disc, but that would defeat the glamour of an SE package.

-Spenser

I'll give you a cookie if I do.

I don't understand why people get this insecure when a developer says he/she has used a Blu Ray disc.

It's sad really. You get people coming in and saying this is complete crap, game could easily be done on DVD9 (usually a 360 owner) and then you get those coming in and going mental saying "Blu Ray is the future, no MGS4 for 360!!!!11".

Way to rip a new ahole in a respected developer/guy and a genius in the gaming industry.... but I forgot the gamers know more than the developers when they want to.

If the space is available and you don't need to bother with multiplatform, chances are you'll take advantage of the extra space in one way or another. People seem to forget that and say the game could easily be done on 1 DVD - If it's not being made with multiplatform in mind, the developers aren't going to do anything to make the game fit into DVD standards.

[spenser.d]

I'll give you a cookie if I do.

I don't understand why people get this insecure when a developer says he/she has used a Blu Ray disc.

It's sad really. You get people coming in and saying this is complete crap, game could easily be done on DVD9 (usually a 360 owner) and then you get those coming in and going mental saying "Blu Ray is the future, no MGS4 for 360!!!!11".

Don't get me wrong, I don't care if they use up a bunch of space on Bluray by compressing less and less - they have the space to do so, but he should come out and say it can't fit on a 50GB disc without telling us why that happens to be, because all evidence points to there being ways for it to fit easily.

-Spenser

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Don't get me wrong, I don't care if they use up a bunch of space on Bluray by compressing less and less - they have the space to do so, but he should come out and say it can't fit on a 50GB disc without telling us why that happens to be, because all evidence points to there being ways for it to fit easily.

-Spenser

What evidence?

Saying others games can?

Read the last paragraph I added to my post. If you have the space, you'll use it if you can find a way to/need to. Without multiplatform in mind, you have no standards to adhere to like the space of a DVD9 being 8GB or w/e it is.

MGS4 has shown it has a ton of FMVS from the first games in forms of flashbacks, coupled with the FMVS it will have from MGS4 itself.... and so forth.

Without the game in our hands/being disected how can you say there is evidence to prove it can be done on a DVD?

All you guys are doing right now is bluntly saying Kojima is "lieing" :/

[theyarecomingforyou]

It's been confirmed PS3 exclusive quite a few times, so there really is no need for people to come in here and go "BULL**** 360 VERSION CAN BE DONE" or "HAHA NO 360 VERSION".

Exactly, which is why they're saying it. It's being used as part of the propaganda war. They use up the extra space for the sake of it, not because it is needed - I have no proof that's the case here but I suspect it would be considering games like GTA4 and the like are still doing great on the X360 and also because we've seen similar claims from other PS3 exclusives that artificially inflated the storage required. Anyway, I don't want to seem like I favour the X360... I actually lean towards the PS3 because of the built in Blu-ray, though the games front is behind.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Exactly, which is why they're saying it. It's being used as part of the propaganda war. They use up the extra space for the sake of it, not because it is needed - I have no proof that's the case here but I suspect it would be considering games like GTA4 and the like are still doing great on the X360 and also because we've seen similar claims from other PS3 exclusives that artificially inflated the storage required. Anyway, I don't want to seem like I favour the X360... I actually lean towards the PS3 because of the built in Blu-ray, though the games front is behind.

Part of the propaganda war?

Jeeeez, I really doubt Konami/Kojima give a **** about silly immature gamers getting their panties in a twist.

Obviously this is to endeavour Blu Ray, but it's also to promote MGS4 as a "new technical feat" and hype the game.

If you were a developer and you genuinely used all this space for your game, which is clearly going to be a AAA title, you'd be flaunting that you're the first developer to make such massive claims.

As I said, if a game is made with one platform in mind, it'll use that to its advantage. There is no point in saying multiplatform titles fit on one DVD fine, as of course they will - They NEED to.

This topic should of been full of "woah wonder what takes the space up?", "MGS4 is going to be great ;)", "ect".... Not instant references to the 360 and people saying Kojima can't develop a game.

I myself have no idea and questions as to what uses up all the space, I have ideas, but im not sure - And no it's not 80 language tracks, it's already been said it's not possible to include Japanese on American/European verions and vice versa. However im not going to come in and slander a world famous developer and his team either pretending I know how to code a game better than them.... or because GTA4 is multiplatform.

Remember Konami is NOT a 1st party developer for Sony as well, they are a 3rd party developer.

[Xero]

One of my biggest problems with 360 users is their constant bitching about how you don't need a Blu Ray disc, DVD is fine. Sure you don't need it, but we also don't need HD television, we don't need faster internet connections, but are we going to stop the advancement of technology? No. My point is, whenever you use compression no matter how good it is, there is quality loss, thats the concept of compression. Most won't notice it I'll give you that, but there are some that will and Kojima would. They are trying to set the bar, trying to give everyone something they've never seen before or experienced. If you want to raise the bar it comes at a price, and that price is processing power and space.

When you think about it, games not so long ago used to fit on a CD, I don't hear anyone bitching about how **** Crysis is, because they couldn't compress it enough to fit on a CD. What I do hear though is 360 fanboys bitching and making excuses because Microsoft didn't put a HD format in its 360. If the 360 had a Blu Ray, we wouldn't hear people bitching about how dumb it is they can't fit games on a DVD. In 5 years I expect we will have games closer to 100GB in size, are you still going to bitch because they couldn't fit it on a 50GB disc? You'd have to be dumb as a rock not to see the trend in technology. The requirement of space is growing exponentially. The bottom line is if you want to raise the bar and create an experience you can't find anywhere else, your going to need much more space. If you want to create the same games over and over, stick the same restrictions we've had for the last 5 years. Now I'm not saying games on a DVD won't raise the bar, but I'm saying that they won't raise it evenly, aspects of the game will suffer whereas others will flourish. With the space on Blu Ray, all aspects can flourish.

[Xerxes]

Where is that 100Gb Blu-Ray disk when you need it? :laugh: On a more serious note, I'm quite shocked that a game hit the space limit of Blu-Ray so damn soon :blink: I wounder how much extra it will install to the HDD? cause the load times will be painful if a game that big relies entirely on the BD drive...

[sundayx Veteran]

Blu-ray discs running out of space? The world is gona end!

[Neo003]

He's f**king with is right. :| WTF he's hiding some porn or something why the hell does he need so much space.

[-Nic-]

Obviously this is to endeavour Blu Ray, but it's also to promote MGS4 as a "new technical feat" and hype the game.

QFT. This quote obviously has people talking. He did his job. :p

[+virtorio MVC]

Hope the game lives up to the hype (and the disc is not just filled with tons of pre-rendered video, non compressed HD audio for every language imaginable and "padding for optimization" - as if it is he might come off as bitch for the Blu-ray department).

I'll be picking up a copy and expect it to blow my mind.

[theyarecomingforyou]

If you were a developer and you genuinely used all this space for your game, which is clearly going to be a AAA title, you'd be flaunting that you're the first developer to make such massive claims.

Not because of any technical acomplishment but because it gets the headlines. This entire topic is about a comment on storage benefits / limitation of Blu-ray, not on any other feature or quality. It's PR. It promotes the game and the PS3.

With the space on Blu Ray, all aspects can flourish.

Yes. It's just a shame that the PS3 has bottlenecks in other areas, hence the problems with The Orange Box, why Left 4 Dead is X360/PC only and why Epic and EA are complaining of increased development costs over X360. A console, like everything, is a balancing act. NEway, this makes it sound like people are opposed to larger formats like Blu-ray when the exact opposite is true.

Jeeeez, I really doubt Konami/Kojima give a **** about silly immature gamers getting their panties in a twist.

I don't understand the point of that statement other than to provoke people to respond. I want a mature discussion.

One of my biggest problems with 360 users is their constant bitching about how you don't need a Blu Ray disc, DVD is fine.

Great, but what does that have to do with this topic? The criticism was of the developer over-exaggerating the need for Blu-ray - not a promotion of the X360.

What I do hear though is 360 fanboys bitching and making excuses because Microsoft didn't put a HD format in its 360. If the 360 had a Blu Ray, we wouldn't hear people bitching about how dumb it is they can't fit games on a DVD.

Great. But again completely off topic.

As I said, if a game is made with one platform in mind, it'll use that to its advantage. There is no point in saying multiplatform titles fit on one DVD fine, as of course they will - They NEED to.

This topic should of been full of "woah wonder what takes the space up?", "MGS4 is going to be great ;)", "ect".... Not instant references to the 360 and people saying Kojima can't develop a game.

Okay, let's establish a few points. 1) The vast majority of titles have no problem being cross-platform and fitting on a DVD9 (though obviously the format is a consideration to compression and other factors). 2) The game is being developed exclusively for the PS3 and to take advantage of its features. Therefore, why has he run out of space? I could fill up a 250GB disc and then claim it's not enough but there should be questions as to why. My point is not that DVD9 has plenty of storage (it doesn't and is out of date) but that everything about this screams "PR stunt".

Anyway, I have no interest in the console wars. I have neither, though have a Wii for parties. I am a PC gamer. I have considered getting a PS3 for the Blu-ray playback. So my comment is not because I don't like the PS3 but because I want to know why 95% of developers are doing fine with DVD9 but this one vastly dwarfs a BD50.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Not because of any technical acomplishment but because it gets the headlines. This entire topic is about a comment on storage benefits / limitation of Blu-ray, not on any other feature or quality. It's PR. It promotes the game and the PS3.

Yes. It's just a shame that the PS3 has bottlenecks in other areas, hence the problems with The Orange Box, why Left 4 Dead is X360/PC only and why Epic is complaining of huge development costs. A console, like everything, is a balancing act. NEway, this makes it sound like people are opposed to larger formats like Blu-ray when the exact opposite is true.

I don't understand the point of that statement other than to provoke people to respond. I want a mature discussion.

Great, but what does that have to do with this topic? The criticism was of the developer over-exaggerating the need for Blu-ray - not a promotion of the X360.

Great. But again completely off topic.

Okay, let's establish a few points. 1) The vast majority of titles have no problem being cross-platform and fitting on a DVD9 (though obviously the format is a consideration to compression and other factors). 2) The game is being developed exclusively for the PS3 and to take advantage of its features. Therefore, why has he run out of space? I could fill up a 250GB disc and then claim it's not enough but there should be questions as to why. My point is not that DVD9 has plenty of storage (it doesn't and is out of date) but that everything about this screams "PR stunt".

Anyway, I have no interest in the console wars. I have neither, though have a Wii for parties. I am a PC gamer. I have considered getting a PS3 for the Blu-ray playback. So my comment is not because I don't like the PS3 but because I want to know why 95% of developers are doing fine with DVD9 but this one vastly dwarfs a BD50.

Well don't say things like this,

It's being used as part of the propaganda war.

There is no propaganda here, PS3 uses Blu Ray for games, some developers will use extra space, others won't.

While it is to hype the game, the MGS series hardly needs to rely on "PR stunts".

I have no issues believing MGS4 uses a lot of space, while it's truely 49GB for game only or a cut of that for game and the rest for bonus stuff I have no idea.

But I seriously doubt it's a 9GB game with 40GB of padding.... That's just silly thinking.

[gunnerhkjp]

I'll give you a cookie if I do.

I don't understand why people get this insecure when a developer says he/she has used a Blu Ray disc.

It's sad really. You get people coming in and saying this is complete crap, game could easily be done on DVD9 (usually a 360 owner) and then you get those coming in and going mental saying "Blu Ray is the future, no MGS4 for 360!!!!11".

Way to rip a new ahole in a respected developer/guy and a genius in the gaming industry.... but I forgot the gamers know more than the developers when they want to.

If the space is available and you don't need to bother with multiplatform, chances are you'll take advantage of the extra space in one way or another. People seem to forget that and say the game could easily be done on 1 DVD - If it's not being made with multiplatform in mind, the developers aren't going to do anything to make the game fit into DVD standards.

You get this knee-jerk reaction from some people when talking about media capacity.

There is some sort of inferiority complex.

Although in some way, their reaction justifies the use of the blu-ray drive :D