Borbus Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 PC games have been HD for... what? 10 years now.. at least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted March 4, 2008 Subscriber² Share Posted March 4, 2008 PC games have been HD for... what? 10 years now.. at least... Uh huh and? (Also just because a game can be run in 1280x1024 doesn't mean it's "HD" on the PC - You can run WoW in even higher resolutions than that and it won't look anywhere near as good as COD4 on a console which isn't even 720p). PC games are a completely different entity/structure than a console game. I don't seem to recall it being as simple as ABC to take a PC game and make it work on a PS3. So please why are we now talking about PC games? :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borbus Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 They're pretty much the same now, actually. Look at Unreal 3 games, ported to different consoles and PC (all OSes) with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGS4-SS Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I love how everyone here, from the more stupid to the most ignorant, think they know more about game developing and game sizes than the developers themselves. To everyone calling this bull, you can go **** yourself by thinking you know more than the developers themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acezo Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Uh huh and? (Also just because a game can be run in 1280x1024 doesn't mean it's "HD" on the PC - You can run WoW in even higher resolutions than that and it won't look anywhere near as good as COD4 on a console which isn't even 720p).PC games are a completely different entity/structure than a console game. I don't seem to recall it being as simple as ABC to take a PC game and make it work on a PS3. So please why are we now talking about PC games? :blink: He's just making a point that just because we've upped the resolution of console games, it doesn't mean that the space the game requires should increase 10x. The textures of course are going to be larger, and there's going to be more of them, but that's not going to increase the size of a game from ~9GB to 50GB. I don't understand why this is still in conversation. The largest resources in games are FMV files and audio files, and since MGS4 has very few cutscenes that aren't in real-time, it can only mean that the audio (which we know the game will be chock full of) is uncompressed or barely compressed, which may very well be the case for the textures too. There's not many other situations that would justify why a game needs 50GB of space. If Konami can get away with not compressing data and still fit it on one disc, what's the point in arguing. It's only when people take information like this and try to twist it to look like 50GB is absolutely necessary that the problems start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted March 4, 2008 Subscriber² Share Posted March 4, 2008 (edited) I concur w/ audioboxer on this one..We shouldn't claim situations of development to be for MGS4. This is the HD era after all.. and there's sh*t we just don't know.. Hell the game isn't out yet.. Don't cash checks your mouth can't patch.. Precisely (Y) I've said all along I don't know exactly what is on the disc, no one outside of Konami does really. I did give a few suggestions at what I think might be taking up space. Instead of discussing MGS4/what could be on the disc and being happy that large capacity discs could be helping the creation/development of AAA games we have a bitch fest... people saying they know more about developing than Konami, that Hideo will pay for lieing, that Sony instruct developers to "waste" space.... I mean, cmon guys.... :blink: But hey, sadly the grim, immature side of the gaming industry sprouts again. Why can't we just be happy Hideo/Konami managed to make the game they wanted to make with the tools they have at their disposal? Blu Ray obviously aiding their development in creating the MGS4 THEY wanted to create. Tough luck if a game you want doesn't come to the system you want it on, no need to go postal. With consoles not all being 1:1 replicas of each other, of course there is going to be variation in what you get. You can easily go pickup the platform the game is on, nothing is stopping you bar your own stupid "pride" if you think you can only buy/invest in one console/brand. Edited March 4, 2008 by Audioboxer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakey Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 apparenlty everyone thinks their right...... really, we have no basis for anything until the game is out and we can prove it. until then, its more like believing in god or not. Just cause a book says he exist doesnt mean he does.... and just because we have no proof doesnt mean nothing either.... so really, everyone needs to stop saying everyone else is wrong. And the people who think it does, your really getting defensive over a comment about some storage capacity. The ones who say it doesnt just are asking for viable proof, instead of just pure beliefe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danrarbc Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 (edited) I've said all along I don't know exactly what is on the disc, no one outside of Konami does really. I did give a few suggestions at what I think might be taking up space. We'll all know in June for sure. And if you really don't think Sony has been telling developers to go crazy on their discs I don't even know what to say though. Of course they've been telling studios to not use compression, just the same as all the BluRay movies that don't. And typically if the platform creator recommends doing things a certain way you'll probably try going that way to at the very least to see if they're right about that. There's no quality reason for doing so since lossless compressions exists, so it's purely for marketing reasons. There's nothing particularly wrong with that of course, but it does cause a developer a little bit of trouble if they start off with uncompressed data and then they have to switch up later when they find they're out of space. Either way, sounds like there's a whole lot of Metal Gear luvin' on the way :D Edited March 4, 2008 by Danrarbc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadishTM Veteran Posted March 4, 2008 Veteran Share Posted March 4, 2008 Like who? Frat boys who cant follow a very well constructed story and exceptionally developed characters?Well, if Hideo its still making these sort of games I am pretty sure he dont care about them. I replied to your post! :laugh: Inside joke between Radish? and Sanctified...i> Radish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyX Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 You need to not tell me how im feeling, as I don't feel anything posted is against me.I'm passionate about the MGS franchise To me, that says it all really. Any negative comments we say will just provoke a response. I guess will find out in June if the game really did need all that space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted March 5, 2008 Subscriber² Share Posted March 5, 2008 To me, that says it all really. Any negative comments we say will just provoke a response.I guess will find out in June if the game really did need all that space. But why are you making negative comments in the first place? I don't see much at all from what Hideo says that warrants an attack of negativity.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted March 5, 2008 Veteran Share Posted March 5, 2008 I replied to your post!:laugh:h:Inside joke between Radish? and Sanctified...Radish? I feel happy and pathetic at the same :cry: :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emn1ty Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 ME had many planets to visit, but how badly did those planets look exactly the same as each other? All/95% of it's cutscenes were in game as well, same with Oblivion.Anyway why are people stuck with this mindset that no game can be any different from others? Why can't Lost Odyssey fit on 1 DVD if ME could? Absolutely pointless comparisons to bring up, every game has different content, is made differently and does different things. It's almost as if none of you will ever embrace the idea of games expanding out, using up more space and including more content/more user options (audio/video?) on one disc. Why do you hate the idea of games growing in size soo much? :/ What I don't get is why you make it out as if we think its bad to take up more than 9GB's. I really don't care how much a game takes up, let alone a game that I am not going to purchase. What I do care about is people like you who take facts and twist them to their own argument, so much in fact they don't even look at anyone else's evidence thoroughly. Oblivion had a major amount of content, as well as ME and Halo 3. The game having in-game custcenes or not doesn't matter. If the game really is 50GB+, then I think this game will be a huge bust simply because you will be watching more than playing (if you really think that the reason is because of cutscenes). There is no evidence against your arguments, but there is no evidence for them either. There is simply no reason to take up that much space. No game to date has taken up even half that amount of space on its own (not even Crysis nor any cutscene heavy FF game). There is just no justification for such a large amount of space. The only way this could be possible is if everything on the disc was uncompressed and duplicated to increase load times. That in itself makes no sense merely because compression makes things load faster by itself rather than just saving space. MGS4 sounds like a game that will have more content then it is worth to look at. Especially if it is going to exclude the user from the game so much that it needs upwards of 50 gigs to play cutscenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo003 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Anyway Kojima said they are having problem fitting everything in one disk, well they will find a way to fit everything in one disk before release. They might have 2 BR disk one for installation and one for play, maybe one for extra contents and one for single player. Who cares, who gives a shlt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamanXplosion Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Someone said Kojima was spreading FUD. I fail to see how mentioning the numbers of zeros and ones on a disc is spreading Fear, Uncertainty, or Doubt. You're speaking nonsense. Someone else said Kojima was spreading propaganda. Technically this is true as anything put forward in order to promote something is technically propaganda but it seems rather clear that propaganda was being used in a different way, as having the connotation that the Kojima was being intentionally deceptive. Would you mind putting your money with your mouth is and provide some evidence? Of course you would mind, you have no evidence to offer. You're making things up and pretending you have a clue. Many people are complaining about a lack of compression. If any of them read the article, they'd know that compression was a high priority for them. High Definition versions of videos from earlier games are being included along with the high definition videos of this game—not taking into consideration all the texture files, audio files, 3D models, etc.—so of course they're using compression! In connection with the nonsensical claims about compression, there was the claim that the developers were lazy. This probably qualifies as one of the most moronic things I've ever heard. When any of you produce a quality soundtrack, cinematic 3D video, or detailed 3D model then please inform me because I'm interested in when you've got a clue. (To anyone who thinks about putting forward a counter-argument, don't bother pulling the fanboy card as it will not help you. I do not own any playstation. I do not own any high definition hardware. I have never played any MGS game and I have no intention to do so. I have no loyalties to Sony, Konami, Blu-Ray, or anything that could be considered relevant. I have no axe to grind against Microsoft's gaming department, HD-DVD, or anything that could be considered relevant. Thus, something better than a claim of fanboyism will be required in your counter-argument.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted March 5, 2008 Subscriber² Share Posted March 5, 2008 What I don't get is why you make it out as if we think its bad to take up more than 9GB's. I really don't care how much a game takes up, let alone a game that I am not going to purchase. What I do care about is people like you who take facts and twist them to their own argument, so much in fact they don't even look at anyone else's evidence thoroughly.Oblivion had a major amount of content, as well as ME and Halo 3. The game having in-game custcenes or not doesn't matter. If the game really is 50GB+, then I think this game will be a huge bust simply because you will be watching more than playing (if you really think that the reason is because of cutscenes). There is no evidence against your arguments, but there is no evidence for them either. There is simply no reason to take up that much space. No game to date has taken up even half that amount of space on its own (not even Crysis nor any cutscene heavy FF game). There is just no justification for such a large amount of space. The only way this could be possible is if everything on the disc was uncompressed and duplicated to increase load times. That in itself makes no sense merely because compression makes things load faster by itself rather than just saving space. MGS4 sounds like a game that will have more content then it is worth to look at. Especially if it is going to exclude the user from the game so much that it needs upwards of 50 gigs to play cutscenes. I'm not twisting anything. Trying to tell people not to bash the hell of out Konami/Hideo/Sony is hardly twisting things. but there is no evidence for them either No evidence for them? How about Konami/Hideo telling us HOW big THERE game is. But I guess if you choose to believe all of Konami and Hideo are lieing, it's a different story. There is simply no reason to take up that much space. No game to date has taken up even half that amount of space on its own (not even Crysis nor any cutscene heavy FF game). There is just no justification for such a large amount of space. Do you think people said that when we went from CDs to DVDs? How long are people going to start that argument rolling everytime we start to make a change in physical media. Theres always gotta be a first batch of games that take things to the next level. It's not like one day you wakeup and 95% of the market has jumped to Blu Ray DL overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Do you think people said that when we went from CDs to DVDs?How long are people going to start that argument rolling everytime we start to make a change in physical media. Theres always gotta be a first batch of games that take things to the next level. It's not like one day you wakeup and 95% of the market has jumped to Blu Ray DL overnight. Indeed, I'd rather avoid the farce that was 3-4cd PC games. I got so fed up with multiple install CD's, those that I could, I'd convert to dvd asap, UT2004 on CD anyone? that was 7CD's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P!P Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I just have a hard time figuring how great, visually impressive games like Call of Duty 4 and Halo 3 among others fit fine on a DVD and MSG4 is having a problem. But whatever, more power to the creators of MSG4 for finding a way to fill up a medium that's barely been out a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconboy Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 i hearby declare any game company that uses more than one DVD worth of space to be "lazy" and "stupid at coding". there is no excuse for this! i bought halo 3 SE and it came with 2 dvds! i was like, wtf!? why cant all the special edition stuff fit on the game disc? OMG! the guys at Bungie are soo lazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emn1ty Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I'm not twisting anything.Trying to tell people not to bash the hell of out Konami/Hideo/Sony is hardly twisting things. No one was bashing, merely questioning there methods. Bashing is much more blatant and less reasoning backed. No evidence for them?How about Konami/Hideo telling us HOW big THERE game is. But I guess if you choose to believe all of Konami and Hideo are lieing, it's a different story. Its not about what I believe, its about what I know of and what they are saying being compared. In my mind, there is just no way to use up 50GB of space. There is no REASON to do so. Maybe half that, but definitely not 50GB. It was like how we believed that Halo 2 was going to be amazing from the videos Bungie released, and in the end we got hundreds of glitches and an extremely toned down game. Just because the developer says something doesn't make it true, it just makes it something they advertised. Do you think people said that when we went from CDs to DVDs?How long are people going to start that argument rolling everytime we start to make a change in physical media. Theres always gotta be a first batch of games that take things to the next level. It's not like one day you wakeup and 95% of the market has jumped to Blu Ray DL overnight. But how many games today take up 5 DVD's? Hardly any, if any at all. Its not the same thing. Space isn't as needed on discs anymore with new compression methods. CD's held around 800mb, thats virtually nothing. 9GB its plenty, and generally 18GB (two discs) is also plenty. A Blu-Ray disc is 5.5 times the size of a normal disc... more space than any game has taken up on its own (save for maybe The Sims and it's expansions). What you need to understand is that it is not about Konami, Hideo, Sony, XBox or PC fanboyism or hatred. It is about simple logic and reasoning. There is no reason to justify such a large game other than an overblown amount of HD content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Uh huh and? (Also just because a game can be run in 1280x1024 doesn't mean it's "HD" on the PC - You can run WoW in even higher resolutions than that and it won't look anywhere near as good as COD4 on a console which isn't even 720p).PC games are a completely different entity/structure than a console game. I don't seem to recall it being as simple as ABC to take a PC game and make it work on a PS3. So please why are we now talking about PC games? :blink: That's total bull****. It is HD if the resolution is equal or more than HD resolutions. I think you are confusing details in the frame with the resolution of the output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
American Ninja Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 i hearby declare any game company that uses more than one DVD worth of space to be "lazy" and "stupid at coding". there is no excuse for this! i bought halo 3 SE and it came with 2 dvds! i was like, wtf!? why cant all the special edition stuff fit on the game disc? OMG! the guys at Bungie are soo lazy! *GASP* you just bashed Bungie and Halo! Those are holy words around these parts. You are doomed brother doomed! The Halo fanboys will eat you alive :alien: May God have mercy on your soul :cry: lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 The game was gonna get released on blu ray anyway, might as well fill it. you don't burn a tv episode to CD without filling the space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted March 5, 2008 Subscriber² Share Posted March 5, 2008 No one was bashing, merely questioning there methods. Bashing is much more blatant and less reasoning backed.Its not about what I believe, its about what I know of and what they are saying being compared. In my mind, there is just no way to use up 50GB of space. There is no REASON to do so. Maybe half that, but definitely not 50GB. It was like how we believed that Halo 2 was going to be amazing from the videos Bungie released, and in the end we got hundreds of glitches and an extremely toned down game. Just because the developer says something doesn't make it true, it just makes it something they advertised. But how many games today take up 5 DVD's? Hardly any, if any at all. Its not the same thing. Space isn't as needed on discs anymore with new compression methods. CD's held around 800mb, thats virtually nothing. 9GB its plenty, and generally 18GB (two discs) is also plenty. A Blu-Ray disc is 5.5 times the size of a normal disc... more space than any game has taken up on its own (save for maybe The Sims and it's expansions). What you need to understand is that it is not about Konami, Hideo, Sony, XBox or PC fanboyism or hatred. It is about simple logic and reasoning. There is no reason to justify such a large game other than an overblown amount of HD content. Bashing may be a strong word, but wanting Hideo to lose his job, telling world class developers they can't make games and stating that Sony force developers to fill up discs with blank space isn't really leaving room for "questioning". Its not about what I believe, its about what I know of and what they are saying being compared. In my mind, there is just no way to use up 50GB of space. There is no REASON to do so. Maybe half that, but definitely not 50GB. It was like how we believed that Halo 2 was going to be amazing from the videos Bungie released, and in the end we got hundreds of glitches and an extremely toned down game. Just because the developer says something doesn't make it true, it just makes it something they advertised. That's fair enough as an opinion, but I take the route of im not going to question a person in a field outwith my knowledge/boundaries where I have little to no experience (game developing) based on what my mind may think. Or im at least going to be careful with my questioning as not to make myself look like an ass. I would be drawing conclusions from other games sitting around me on a DL DVD, instead of drawing conclusions from seeing games being developed and knowing what more space on a disc could let you do. Just because the developer says something doesn't make it true, it just makes it something they advertised. I'd still trust a developer, let alone the mastermind behind the series over the media or a bunch of gamers on a forum. But how many games today take up 5 DVD's? Hardly any, if any at all. Its not the same thing. Space isn't as needed on discs anymore with new compression methods. CD's held around 800mb, thats virtually nothing. 9GB its plenty, and generally 18GB (two discs) is also plenty. A Blu-Ray disc is 5.5 times the size of a normal disc... more space than any game has taken up on its own (save for maybe The Sims and it's expansions). Probably only a few, but read my points from earlier. Trends show games using more space over generations and there always has to be a game or games that start to carry on the trend and make the leaps to using more space. Again, some people probably started this argument when the first games appeared on DVD, instead of 3-4-5 cds. What you need to understand is that it is not about Konami, Hideo, Sony, XBox or PC fanboyism or hatred. It is about simple logic and reasoning. There is no reason to justify such a large game other than an overblown amount of HD content. It's very much about Konami and Hideo at least, they are the people making the claims and the ones who have made MGS4. It's not much to do with Sony/Xbox/ect, other than a relating comment to Sony as they are the ones behind putting a Blu Ray drive in the PS3 for gaming use. There is no reason to justify such a large game other than an overblown amount of HD content. Even if it is a ton of HD content, it's the way Hideo and the rest of the guys wanted to make MGS4. I'm happy they got to do what they wanted, they've given us an awesome series and have worked their asses off over the years. That's total bull****. It is HD if the resolution is equal or more than HD resolutions. I think you are confusing details in the frame with the resolution of the output. Chillout, I know exactly what im saying. If texture quality is not high, it doesn't matter if a PC game is in 800x600 or 2024x1780... it will still look "bad". Pacman can probably be forced to run in 1080p on the PC, but it will hardly look "HD". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magik Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 :rofl: Yea, okay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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