+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted March 6, 2008 Subscriber² Share Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) Yes, I'll be glad to take note on complete speculation as to why it may be, coming from people who aren't in the industry. You spent nine pages telling us that we shouldn't be bitching because we aren't in the industry and thus aren't qualified on the matter, and now you're telling me to take note of speculation from someone just as unqualified. Nice flop.-Spenser You missed my point completely. You said, You Sony fans sure are sensitive. & It's also quite ironic that so many of you support people being able to say their opinions, and then when we do, you nail us to the wall. I answered by saying it's fine to have opinions but what is not exactly "fine" is half the complete utter crap posted in this thread. Most of it can't be discussed and quite frankly ruins any sort of adult like conversation we could have about MGS, what could be included on the MGS4 disc to make it need as much space and what could be in store for the games of the future. By "take note" I meant, take note of what nonsense eXtermia said*, add it to all the other "Konami can't develop games/Hideo should lose his job/Sony force developers to use blank space" esque comments and you should understand why some of us get rather annoyed at perfectly "ok" topics being ruined. I can understand uncertainty and doubt in a topic like this, but to some of the extremes posted... :/ We aren't talking about new to the scene indie developer Joe Blogs saying his game needs up to/in excess of 50GB, we're talking about Hideo Kojima/Konami. * Or perhaps they are secretly using the game to offer some kind of new sony root kit technology that will spread across the internet to any internet connected PS3s Edited March 6, 2008 by Audioboxer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenser.d Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 <snip> Oh, sorry. I'm actually ignoring all responses to my post that you were referencing because all I wanted to do was throw it out there - I know you'll never change, so it's not worth it to me to try and defend my views. I have a lot of things I could say about you and why we end up with 9 pages of pointless discussion in threads like these, but I've gotta refrain. My point still stands from my last post, though - you flopped and there's no way around that. /edit - You probably shouldn't waste your time replying. I'm not going to be in this thread anymore - I'll probably end up in hot water with people that actually matter if I kept coming back to this. -Spenser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhav Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I didn't write this, but I think it's a fair point. That quote makes so much sense I'm going to post it again lol First premise to everything I've been saying is that gamers are not in a good position to even judge whether or not Hideo Kojima is justified in using 50GB of space - even after they play the game. It takes someone who's actually made a serious game(or worked on a project) to understand that the differences that sometimes seem huge to a gamer mean little on the technical side, and that sometimes differences that seem little on the gamers side are huge differences on the technical side. No matter what, developers aren't in a good position to predict what gamers will and will not notice so the most dedicated ones will adopt a simple philosophy that "every little technical thing can matter and therefore should matter."When you play a release game, you only see the result of decisions the developers made in the end. You assume everything was optimal unless the game is worked on for a lot more time. Gamers don't have a real comparison of what it could have been or would have been like assuming an entirely different set of decisions were made. The only person who knows that is the developer. The truth in fact, is that games are rarely ever the result of the best decisions. They represent a mix of things that were carefully planned out and foreseen and other solutions that weren't as well thought out but needed to be addressed. The decisions that weren't well thought out usually cause other hurdles later in development that I'm sure not everyone in the project is keenly aware of. Teams can decide to either hack around it, further limiting the possibilities and adding bugs somewhere in their engine, or they can rewrite perhaps a larger chunk of code to integrate the solution in a more stable manner. Being the lead in a recently finish game project, I can say with certainty that a number of developers that think they are fit for the industry insist on simply hacking in a solution even while they are "driven" to make a good game. So moving on to this specific case: Hideo Kojima has used 50GB of space. That is at least around 25GB more space than any other game in the genre has ever used. I hope you would at least agree (and not call it speculation) that if he used this much more space, it was towards some benefit towards the quality of the game. I'm not sitting here trying to convince you that this benefit is huge and will be immediately noticeable, but if you can at least agree on the idea that the extra space bring some benefit to the game, then there should be no questioning whether or not using 50GB of space was justified. Would you rather him simply say "I don't feel like doing that, I doubt anyone will notice the difference" and then leave it out? In fact, the questioning should be directed towards the other games that leave this space unused and don't reap some benefit from the massive amount of space they have. The fact that no one questions that group of game developers means we fully believe that whatever it is that they aren't doing, isn't worth it. There are a bunch of "could have" features and/or differences that we haven't even seen and yet we accept that they aren't worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted March 6, 2008 Subscriber² Share Posted March 6, 2008 Oh, sorry. I'm actually ignoring all responses to my post that you were referencing because all I wanted to do was throw it out there - I know you'll never change, so it's not worth it to me to try and defend my views. I have a lot of things I could say about you and why we end up with 9 pages of pointless discussion in threads like these, but I've gotta refrain.My point still stands from my last post, though - you flopped and there's no way around that. /edit - You probably shouldn't waste your time replying. I'm not going to be in this thread anymore - I'll probably end up in hot water with people that actually matter if I kept coming back to this. -Spenser I flopped? This is totally unfair, and tbh I don't actually quite understand what you mean. If anything I think I tried to somewhat keep a balance in a topic that from the 1/2nd page of replies was starting to go up in flames. I know you'll never change, so it's not worth it to me to try and defend my views I don't see why I need to change, for one of the first times on Neowin im going to stand up for myself a little more, and say other than a word or two of direction from a mod, I've never been warned and many people do think for all my flaws I am pretty reasonably level headed. I think so to, when I see some of the other crap that people spew on here/around the gaming community. I also don't know why you need to "defend your views". Just because I may share different ones doesn't invalidate yours at all - Unless you are argubaly posting utter and complete BS, or something that proves to not be factual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huleboeren Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Thread gone in T Minus 3 seconds ...1... ...2... ...3... POOF! :iiam: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 think this topic has gone so far off topic whether its 50mb or 50 gb, who cares if the game is good! I'm pretty sure the devs know what they're talking about and what their best intentions are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian M. Veteran Posted March 6, 2008 Veteran Share Posted March 6, 2008 Guys, last chance. Any more arguing and the topic will be closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windam Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Yah Spencer last chance.. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenser.d Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Yah Spencer last chance.. :p You spelled my name wrong ;) :p -Spenser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windam Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 You spelled my name wrong ;) :p-Spenser blast you! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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