MrA Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 so you're saying there are no properly designed OS' out there then... There are. Windows isn't one of them. Neither is Linux, or OSX, or FreeBSD, or Solaris, and the list goes on. Then again, you're looking at a performance-stability tradeoff. You can make a rock-solid OS, but it'll suffer in performance (read: true microkernels like QNX), or you can make a fast OS but it'll crash at the first sign of trouble (VxWorks < 6). Most mainstream OSes are somewhere in between. And the definition of "properly designed OS' is up for interpretation and depends on the context. Anywho, that's a bit off topic. Something people don't realize is that graphics drivers are the most difficult to program. And it gets harder when you have to try and get the best performance out of them. Finally, people shouldn't be taking these numbers at face value. You should also take into account install base (to which you might adjust these numbers), # of products to support, hardware complexity (ATI and nVidia's chips are vastly more complex than Intel's) and other factors. I'd give adjusted numbers based on market share here, but it turn's out nvidia is still much worse than ATI, which doesn't make the point I was gonna make. Oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL1TE Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Aha, see? What i've said? Why people always think the crashed are from the OS itself and not from the drivers? Epic FAIL. :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiHu Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Got a ATi x1950 PRO 512 MB. Running smooth :3 No problems at all.. Always loved ATI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamend Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Has anyone considered that BSODs referrencing graphics drivers can be caused by failing hardware? Vista general usage puts a lot more strain on the graphics card than XP thanks to Aero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Kompressor Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Yes... the usual driver not responding message ocassionally rears it's head during game play.... it used to be quite often actually but I guess they are trying to fix it with newer driver releases. but still we never that this much problems with XP. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperAFK Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Has anyone considered that BSODs referrencing graphics drivers can be caused by failing hardware? Vista general usage puts a lot more strain on the graphics card than XP thanks to Aero. No... Running Aero is not going to kill your video card, that's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwolfe Veteran Posted March 28, 2008 Veteran Share Posted March 28, 2008 oh man,and then the linux and mac zeaolts come here up in arms,and say that Vista is a faulty OS.Thank god there are info that clarifies the situation here As was pointed out earlier, you would be more correct to mention XP supporters, as the most frequent arguments on Neowin seem to be XP vs Vista. And no one mentioned Linux or Apple in this thread until... ummm... you. Aha, see? What i've said? Why people always think the crashed are from the OS itself and not from the drivers?Epic FAIL. :yes: I suppose you did notice that the second single leading cause listed was "Microsoft". I guess the "FAIL" you tout is not quite as "Epic" as you state. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamend Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 No... Running Aero is not going to kill your video card, that's ridiculous. I'm not saying that Aero causes them to fail. Instead, the cards might already be faulty (there are Aero-capable cards over 5 years old now), but only the strain of Aero makes it noticable through BSODs. Edit: and more generally... why do so many people assume that their BSODs are caused by bugs instead of hardware problems? For example, the "Microsoft" cause would suggest that the kernel itself or a base system driver failed... but that's still likely to be caused by bad hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neufuse Veteran Posted March 28, 2008 Veteran Share Posted March 28, 2008 There maybe now people can stop complaining about vista crashing / being slow and see that a lot of it has to do with IHV's own driver problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Caro Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 what's a "crash" anyway? BSODs/HANGS? I don't think I've ever had one of those in vista (other than one faulty PCI wifi card that would get any OS to hang). I do agree though that things have improved A LOT since vista was released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL1TE Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I suppose you did notice that the second single leading cause listed was "Microsoft". I guess the "FAIL" you tout is not quite as "Epic" as you state. :p lolol, yes, but it's better than be the worst. Does anyone know what "unknown" and "all others" mean? :shifty: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S7un7 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Who certified the Nvidia drivers?............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Caro Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 As was pointed out earlier, you would be more correct to mention XP supporters, as the most frequent arguments on Neowin seem to be XP vs Vista.And no one mentioned Linux or Apple in this thread until... ummm... you. I suppose you did notice that the second single leading cause listed was "Microsoft". I guess the "FAIL" you tout is not quite as "Epic" as you state. :p I agree with you man. It's XP supporters the ones that are bashing vista to no end. I don't see myself using XP anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwolfe Veteran Posted March 28, 2008 Veteran Share Posted March 28, 2008 ...For example, the "Microsoft" cause would suggest that the kernel itself or a base system driver failed... but that's still likely to be caused by bad hardware. I think that is more likely the "unknown" category. ...Does anyone know what "unknown" and "all others" mean? :shifty: "all others" would be various other 3rd party apps (even stuff downloaded from download.com or whatever) that caused a problem. Must be several thousands of different apps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL1TE Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 "all others" would be various other 3rd party apps (even stuff downloaded from download.com or whatever) that caused a problem. Must be several thousands of different apps. Jesus, i'm so idiot. :shifty: Thanks for light' my brain. :alien: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamend Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I think that is more likely the "unknown" category. "unknown" is probably caused by bad hardware, but I'd say the same for "Microsoft". On my computer, about 2/3 of the drives are from "Microsoft Corporation", so it's likey that a general hardware failure would be caused by them. "all others" would be various other 3rd party apps (even stuff downloaded from download.com or whatever) that caused a problem. Must be several thousands of different apps. "all others" is still drivers, not user-space software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brony Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 No... Running Aero is not going to kill your video card, that's ridiculous. Almost any modern videocard wasn't created to work at 100% all the time. Aero will not push the videocard for the 100% of the capacity but near to. So yes, Aero sooner or later will kill your hardware (shorting their lifespan), starting with the default fan of your video card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Caro Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 (edited) Almost any modern videocard wasn't created to work at 100% all the time. Aero will not push the videocard for the 100% of the capacity but near to.So yes, Aero sooner or later will kill your hardware (shorting their lifespan), starting with the default fan of your video card. u better be kidding me. I can tell by the temperature that aero is definitely not using the card near its capacity. by "100% all the time" what do you mean? last time I checked providing the video output to the monitor was considered "working" and the fan? how is aero shortening the life span of the bloody fan? for that, you need a card that automatically adjusts the speed of the fan depending on the temperature of the GPU, not all of them do. then, you need aero to actually raise the temperature enough for that to happen. that might the be the case with really old cards (I dont know), but I doubt that's the case. Edited March 28, 2008 by Julius Caro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_Herbie Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 That Pie Chart really should be a Column Chart to make it easier to compare the figures side by side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Veteran Posted March 28, 2008 Veteran Share Posted March 28, 2008 And if the OS was properly designed a single driver should never be able to crash the system. And if you'd ever used it you'd at least partially know what you're talking about. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pupik Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Almost any modern videocard wasn't created to work at 100% all the time. Aero will not push the videocard for the 100% of the capacity but near to.So yes, Aero sooner or later will kill your hardware (shorting their lifespan), starting with the default fan of your video card. I'm running Aero and my card activity status disagrees: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperAFK Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Almost any modern videocard wasn't created to work at 100% all the time. Aero will not push the videocard for the 100% of the capacity but near to.So yes, Aero sooner or later will kill your hardware (shorting their lifespan), starting with the default fan of your video card. Um no... Aero won't push modern card close to 100% at all. My cards idle temp is 42 degrees, when I play any games it s at least 53. Turning aero off decreases the temp like 1 degree, same was true for my old 7600gs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foub Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Video was one of the very few things that I didn't have problems with under Vista, that is until it had deactivated my copy of Vista after only updating the driver (Which had no problems doing several times before for the same card under Vista.) and I then switched over to XP and Ubuntu, and finally to Ubuntu only. I have an ATI x1650 Pro 256Meg RAM card. Vista is way too unreliable and flaky for a commercial OS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperAFK Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 And if you'd ever used it you'd at least partially know what you're talking about. :rolleyes: I don't know about you, but I have had both ati and nvidia drivers crash, all that happend ios the screen goes black, comes back and a balloon says "Your driver has crashed and has been recovered or something" in xp the result would have been a BSOD. I had this happen once While playing CS:S, the game froze and went black, then let me keep playing after the driver crashed! vista moving the drivers more into user space was a great thing for stability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLien_0 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 well i will say my video card driver crashes at least 2-3 times a day, i get that whole display driver stopped and was successfully restarted. and btw what gadget is that that monitors gpu activity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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