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LostCat    1,235
The real issue is that MS falsely claims that DX10 cannot be done on XP. DX10, the HAL in Vista, and DX10 (D3D 10) the graphics API are two different things.

DX10 = Vista HAL

D3D 10 = OpenGL 3.0

When OpenGL 3.0 is released later this year, it will support DX10 hardware on any platform that has drivers for it. I'm looking forward to hearing MS's public explanation for when DX10 shaders are shown running XP even though MS claimed this was impossible. Maybe you won't get some of Vista's GPU memory management features, 3D multitasking (needed for Aero, not for games), and supposed extra driver stability (what's with all those BSODs then?), but they don't seem to help with game performance so I doubt anyone will care.

That statement doesn't really make much sense. DX10 is not the HAL in Vista and the new 3d driver model is part of d3d10. They never denied they could make XP work with the new shaders, what they said was that a backport would be a shadow of its former self at which point there's no point.

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Brandon Live    232
That's because there's been no games built from the ground up with directx 10 in mind. THey've all really added it at the last minute and put in some extra effects.

Perhaps, but the effects in LOTRO are pretty damn nice.

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Brandon Live    232
That statement doesn't really make much sense. DX10 is not the HAL in Vista and the new 3d driver model is part of d3d10. They never denied they could make XP work with the new shaders, what they said was that a backport would be a shadow of its former self at which point there's no point.

Right. The choices were:

1) Backport all of WDDM to XP, including all dependencies in the HAL, kernel, and the user-mode interfaces. That's basically saying that Microsoft should "give you Vista for free." After all, what's the point of Vista if you make all of its features available on XP? Apple didn't port Core Animation and those APIs back, and nobody seemed to complain. They said "Hey, that's a cool new feature/platform and I'll gladly pay for it."

The people who complain most about this, I think, are people who didn't pay for Vista (or XP) anyway. They feel entitled to free software, and then free features. It's a pretty messed up expectation, when you think about it. Perhaps it is partly Microsoft's fault for backporting so many thing in the first place.

2) Create, and maintain, an entirely new impementation of DX 10 that can run on XDDM drivers and the XP kernel. I fully expect this was possible, but again, why would they do it. What's the business justification? It would take a ton of time and resources to build, wouldn't benefit people paying for Vista, and would actually distract from making Vista (and future versions) better. At some point, you have to let go.

That's my take, anyway.

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LostCat    1,235
Perhaps, but the effects in LOTRO are pretty damn nice.

True dat. The games beautiful on very high in dx10. I'm on an 8600GTS and it definately chugs occasionally, but who cares? Can't be arsed to tone the graphics down when its that awesome looking.

(And if anyone wants to bring up the HardOCP article the DX10 code in LOTRO has been updated several times since then.)

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neufuse    3,565
You can use 7.1 in Vista. It's 6.1 that's mysteriously missing.

As for hardware audio being gone, that's fading from XP as well. XAudio 2, DirectSounds replacement, was just released and has no support for hardware audio. Of course devs can still target DirectSound, but I highly doubt too many will for very long. DS hasn't been changed for roughly nine years, and it was showing its age five years ago.

And since OpenAL works in Vista, that makes both OSes even on audio for future titles.

Which they won't. DX10 on XP, as they put it, would be a crippled beast at which point it might as well be called DirectX 9.0D. They can't backport the architecture enhancements which are a major part of the experience.

Huh? I have Vista x64 Ultimate and I have 6.1 channel in the setup :blink: that's what I am using right now!

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LostCat    1,235

Ahh, must be a driver thing then. I thought it skipped from 5.1 to 7.1, thats whats available on my box.

Oh well, not everything you hear is true, thats why I usually head straight to the official sources.

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toadeater    1
agreed, any game developer who makes a directx10 only game now would commit financial suicide

if directx10 was ported to xp

i still would not upgrade, not after they murdered the sound system in it

A theoretical XP DX10 would use XP drivers, so you could still use EAX.

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LostCat    1,235

You can use EAX with Vista already.

I wouldn't count on many games sticking with DirectSound past this year, so it'll be a moot point soon enough. XAudio 2 sounds like it'll be a pretty impressive difference.

Finally, MS took my bitching about gaming audio and did something about it...(yeah, of course I wasn't the only one.)

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