PSW Confirms Exclusive GTA4 DLC for the PS3 and Home Inclusion


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The PS3 has only just hit the price that the PS2 was at LAUNCH. Most people don't buy a console at that price, most wait until a significant price drop (somewhere around where the 360 is now, although a lot will probably be waiting until it's even cheaper).

I still think this year is going to be even in terms of consoles sold. The PS3 is selling ever so slightly more than the 360, but not enough to really cause impacts on sales. If this really IS the "year of the PS3", it's not going to be enough to overly WIN anything.

I think the damage has been done to the PS3, it's lost many exclusive titles and most developers have gone multi-platform so they're going to have to fight on console features/price alone for the most part and that's where Blu-ray really comes into it - however the point is GTA4 isn't going to change the race in any significant way, we already had a thread on that and most people seemed to agree it's not going to do anything other than boost BOTH console's sales.

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The PS3 has only just hit the price that the PS2 was at LAUNCH. Most people don't buy a console at that price, most wait until a significant price drop (somewhere around where the 360 is now, although a lot will probably be waiting until it's even cheaper).

I still think this year is going to be even in terms of consoles sold. The PS3 is selling ever so slightly more than the 360, but not enough to really cause impacts on sales. If this really IS the "year of the PS3", it's not going to be enough to overly WIN anything.

I think the damage has been done to the PS3, it's lost many exclusive titles and most developers have gone multi-platform so they're going to have to fight on console features/price alone for the most part and that's where Blu-ray really comes into it - however the point is GTA4 isn't going to change the race in any significant way, we already had a thread on that and most people seemed to agree it's not going to do anything other than boost BOTH console's sales.

I agree with exclusives lost, but I don't agree on the impact many are prediciting.

It's not lost the exclusives that really count. MGS/FF/GT/GoW are not going to be multiplatform. Naughty Dog games aren't going to go multiplatform, ect. The big exclusives like those are main platform sellers.

DMC4/some of the other titles going multiplatform aren't really going to impact on the PS3 all that much. What they are going to do is supplement the 360, but not cause huge increases in hardware sales.

It's better for us gamers, but let's be honest how many millions, or even thousands of people bought a PS2 solely for DMC? What I mean by that is bought their PS2 FOR DMC - I understand that DMC being exclusive meant if you liked DMC you HAD to have a PS2, and now because it's multiplatfrom you don't NEED to have a PS3.

I believe the majority picked up their PS2 for other major exclusives, and then bought DMC - Now those people will still pickup their PS3 for the major exclusives, but they may or may not pickup DMC on another platform.

The console that wins this generation will do so heavily based on the exclusives it has. Right now we can say they are probably going to be on par with graphics/audio, unless any specific titles coming out prove us wrong. For media capabilities, it's either PS3 if you believe in physical discs, or 360 if you believe in downloading - Until/If Sony release a movie marketplace equivalent, and then it's really their domain if you ask me :/

Yeah the thread on GTA4 was quite interesting to see things so one sided (majority predicting GTA4 wont predict 2008/console race).

It will supplement both consoles sales, but if it supplements them evenly, or even gives the PS3 a slight lead, with the arsenal the PS3 is bringing out this year, you can see how some may say GTA4 sales could be quite crucial in handing 2008 to one of the consoles.

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If the Playstation 3 comes out at the end of the year with the most consoles sold this year ... then by all means it will be Playstation's year. Hell, the console has only been out for a year and a half ... games like this, GT5, Uncharted and others are paving the way for it to really happen. Not to mention we've got a Blu-ray player built in. All this recent Home inclusion news is pretty exciting also! :)

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Guys are we still going on about this like it or not BOTH console's are going to be here, Whether they are coming out with exclusive titles or not.

I mean we?re having the same discussion we had a year or two ago. What happened? Nothing, PS3 is here with its exclusive titles and so is 360.

None of the consoles are going to win; we had reached in an era where nobody is going to lose except us the consumer.

The console that wins this generation[/b]b> will do so heavily based on the exclusives it has. Right now we can say they are probably going to be on par with graphics/audio, unless any specific titles coming out prove us wrong. For media capabilities, it's either PS3 if you believe in physical discs, or 360 if you believe in downloading - Until/If Sony release a movie marketplace equivalent, and then it's really their domain if you ask m:/:/

I didn?t expect that coming from you of all.

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I didn’t expect that coming from you of all.

What??? One console will win this generation based on sales.

That's like, undisputed fact.

You can't have 3 consoles at number 1 on sales unless you have 3 consoles selling the exact same figure.

And if that happens, ill eat my face.

In terms of winning on how good each console is, IMO every console has already won (which is why I own all 3) - I'm taking sales figures, I thought that would be obvious!

If Sony wins on sales, Sony will say they won this generation, If MS wins on sales, MS will say they won this generation, if Nintendo wins on sales, Nintendo will say they won this generation.

You won't see console x finish in 1st, and then the Creators/Developers coming out and saying "well guys, you know what? console y and z are winners as well! it doesn't matter that we finished 1st!". Sorry but whoever comes first will be gloating that their platform was the consumers choice, and that they offered the best product and had the best longetivity for the consumer.

Just the way it goes in the business world :/

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What??? One console will win this generation based on sales.

That's like, undisputed fact.

You can't have 3 consoles at number 1 on sales unless you have 3 consoles selling the exact same figure.

And if that happens, ill eat my face.

In terms of winning on how good each console is, IMO every console has already won (which is why I own all 3) - I'm taking sales figures, I thought that would be obvious!

If Sony wins on sales, Sony will say they won this generation, If MS wins on sales, MS will say they won this generation, if Nintendo wins on sales, Nintendo will say they won this generation.

You won't see console x finish in 1st, and then the Creators/Developers coming out and saying "well guys, you know what? console y and z are winners as well! it doesn't matter that we finished 1st!". Sorry but whoever comes first will be gloating that their platform was the consumers choice, and that they offered the best product and had the best longetivity for the consumer.

Just the way it goes in the business world :/

What sales? Overall console sales? Software sales? Peripheral Sales?

The PS3 is CURRENTLY selling more than the 360, but it has to play catch up and current sales mean it'll be playing that for quite some time. But lets assume for a moment that the PS3 eventually does outsell the 360 - does that mean it's "won"? Not necessarily, the 360 shifts about twice as much software as the PS3 does and a LOT more peripherals - the PS3 would thus have to outsell the 360 2:1 to "beat" it overall and even with those hard-hitting exclusives that Sony has, that's just not going to happen unless Microsoft really messes things up (and Microsoft so far has proven that it knows how to sell games).

I'm not saying the 360 will "win" or whatever, I'm simply saying this time around there's no clear winner from either side because both consoles are very evenly matched - essentially while the PS3 MIGHT win in overall console sales, it'll probably lose in overall software sales so there's only going to be a winner based on what you think is more important.

And in this industry, the most important thing is money - whoever makes the most money will "win" from a business perspective and quite simply, software makes more money than hardware. Microsoft lost a lot of money last generation, but they're actually making money this time around and things seem to be going on the up and up. Sony lost a lot of money Developng CELL, a technology that doesn't seem to have sold as well as Sony had hoped (they wanted it to be the next big processor and so far as far as I'm aware, only the PS3 and some TV's from Toshiba actually use it) and they also lost a lot of money on each PS3 sold, so don't expect them to be making major profits this generation. It's almost as if the previous generation has swapped sides.

At least Sony has blu-ray, so they wont be going anywhere, but I wouldn't bother waiting to see a "winner" because there simply wont be one.

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What sales? Overall console sales? Software sales? Peripheral Sales?

The PS3 is CURRENTLY selling more than the 360, but it has to play catch up and current sales mean it'll be playing that for quite some time. But lets assume for a moment that the PS3 eventually does outsell the 360 - does that mean it's "won"? Not necessarily, the 360 shifts about twice as much software as the PS3 does and a LOT more peripherals - the PS3 would thus have to outsell the 360 2:1 to "beat" it overall and even with those hard-hitting exclusives that Sony has, that's just not going to happen unless Microsoft really messes things up (and Microsoft so far has proven that it knows how to sell games).

I'm not saying the 360 will "win" or whatever, I'm simply saying this time around there's no clear winner from either side because both consoles are very evenly matched - essentially while the PS3 MIGHT win in overall console sales, it'll probably lose in overall software sales so there's only going to be a winner based on what you think is more important.

And in this industry, the most important thing is money - whoever makes the most money will "win" from a business perspective and quite simply, software makes more money than hardware. Microsoft lost a lot of money last generation, but they're actually making money this time around and things seem to be going on the up and up. Sony lost a lot of money Developng CELL, a technology that doesn't seem to have sold as well as Sony had hoped (they wanted it to be the next big processor and so far as far as I'm aware, only the PS3 and some TV's from Toshiba actually use it) and they also lost a lot of money on each PS3 sold, so don't expect them to be making major profits this generation. It's almost as if the previous generation has swapped sides.

At least Sony has blu-ray, so they wont be going anywhere, but I wouldn't bother waiting to see a "winner" because there simply wont be one.

Hardware sales obviously, you don't win a console race on software/peripheral sales - Although if you sell most hardware, those two tend to come hand in hand with having a larger install base.

I don't see what you guys find it hard to understand.

There will be an out and out winner in raw sales. That is just simply a fact.

If the 360 ends up on 120 million units sold, and the PS3 100 million, after say 8-10 years, then the 360 has won the console race, and vice versa.

What people are arguing there won't be is an "out and out" winner like the PS2 was, as the other consoles couldn't compete as well on broadness/amount of software.

Or there won't be a situation where one of the consoles drops off the face of the planet with a "small" install base, and is deemed a "failure".

There probably won't be a win like that again.

But in terms of sales, I'll fight to the death of there being a winner, as there will be.

It's like saying, 3 runners run a race and rank 1, 2, 3 respectfully, and then going, wait a minute! We'll give them all gold medals as they all broke the world record!

Doesn't work like that, 1st will still get gold, 2nd silver and 3rd bronze.

Same with sales.

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So what you're saying is that if the PS3 sells 1 console more than the 360, it's "won"? Whenever the 360 may have sold TWICE as much software?

I'm sorry, but that doesn't work. It doesn't beneift Sony and it doesn't benefit developers. If sony could sell 10% less PS3's than the 360 but 10% more software, they'd go for the software.

Otherwise, they'd be giving the PS3's away for nothing.

Likewise, HD-DVD player sales have recently boomed thanks to the low-low prices they've been going for. Standalone player sales have skyrocketed. Does that mean it's won? Hardly.

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So what you're saying is that if the PS3 sells 1 console more than the 360, it's "won"? Whenever the 360 may have sold TWICE as much software?

I'm sorry, but that doesn't work. It doesn't beneift Sony and it doesn't benefit developers. If sony could sell 10% less PS3's than the 360 but 10% more software, they'd go for the software.

Otherwise, they'd be giving the PS3's away for nothing.

Likewise, HD-DVD player sales have recently boomed thanks to the low-low prices they've been going for. Standalone player sales have skyrocketed. Does that mean it's won? Hardly.

The chances of the 360 selling twice as much software if the PS3 sells more hardware is very very low (at the time of the console race being declared "over"). I'm not talking about a margin of 1 console, if this race is won on one console, again I'll eat my face.

Right now you are basing your prediction like that, due to the 360 decimating the PS3 on software sales just now.

That is unfair for the future predictions (IMO anyway, if you think it will always decimate, fair enough, we'll see if your right) due to the fact the reason it's like that just now is the PS3 can't compete with the 360's software. It has a much smaller library, and nowhere near as many AAA franchises, existing or new.

In 5/6/7 years, heck even by the end of this year, the PS3 will be much more able to compete on software and far more games will be purchased per PS3.

The lacking in games is a mix of slow development for the PS3 due to difficulty in the earlier stages, and also due to the console launching a year later.

As I said, if you win on hardware sales, software and peripheral sales tend to come hand in hand.

It's unlikely you'll sell 10-15-20% more hardware than your rival at the end of the console race, and have your rival outnumbering you on software 2:1.

I'm not saying your rival outnumbering you on software, but you selling more hardware is out of the question, but it's bound to be more like 1:19:1 or some smaller gap.

HD-DVD is a dead format, so it doesn't really matter what it's selling just now. Neither the 360 or PS3 will ever be a "dead" games machine. Until FULL support is hosed by MS and Sony.

Like the xbox/ps1 just now, they are hosed on support.

Edited by Audioboxer
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See all that logic would make sense, except the Wii messes it up completely. It's sold more than the 360, yet doesn't get half of the software sales (the 360 averages about 7 titles per box, the Wii is just over 3 as far as I remember). There's no shortage of games on the machine, either (most of them are crap, mind) and despite the numerous crappy peripherals available for it, I think the 360 still sells more there as well. If you think AAA titles will be what makes the difference there, then the 360 will keep coming out with those as well as the PS3, so it's not likely to change unless developer support starts to dry up - which wont happen unless the 360 stops selling software so well.

It's all a numbers game. If you're a games company and you're deciding what platform you want to sell your games on, you'll go by which is most likely to lead to bigger sales. The PS3 may sell slightly more than the 360, but if 360 owners are buying more games, then you'll sell more units on that console - so what one are you going to support?

No developer that is currently doing multi-platform releases is going to stop developing for either platform any time soon, so the shift in titles sold isn't going to change much either.

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See all that logic would make sense, except the Wii messes it up completely. It's sold more than the 360, yet doesn't get half of the software sales (the 360 averages about 7 titles per box, the Wii is just over 3 as far as I remember). There's no shortage of games on the machine, either (most of them are crap, mind) and despite the numerous crappy peripherals available for it, I think the 360 still sells more there as well. If you think AAA titles will be what makes the difference there, then the 360 will keep coming out with those as well as the PS3, so it's not likely to change unless developer support starts to dry up - which wont happen unless the 360 stops selling software so well.

It's all a numbers game. If you're a games company and you're deciding what platform you want to sell your games on, you'll go by which is most likely to lead to bigger sales. The PS3 may sell slightly more than the 360, but if 360 owners are buying more games, then you'll sell more units on that console - so what one are you going to support?

No developer that is currently doing multi-platform releases is going to stop developing for either platform any time soon, so the shift in titles sold isn't going to change much either.

The Wii has the biggest collection of shovelware ever though.

I think it's safe to hedge your bets on the PS3 having better rated software, if for example it had the number of titles the Wii has on the market.

The Wii is cheap and easy to make games for, so cash-in-corps as I like to call them, make the "Wiimote "Shi* of the day!" and people buy it as it has motion sensing throwing of balls and stuff - OMG MOTION SENSING!!111 I CAN THROW STUFF!!!111.

Sorry, im not dissing the Wiis control scheme, I like it, but I think people buy complete and utter crap just because of the motion sensing. Carnival Games for example would of sold like horse manure on the PS3/360 in comparison to how it's sold on the Wii.

Different titles for different folks though, but an average metacritic score is hard to argue with if you're going to say a games good, average or poor - Taste issues aside, some people will like games others don't. With the Wii though, we're talking about MILLIONS of people argubaly buying "poor" games though, not a couple of thousand in the category of having a "unique/strange taste" in games, not shared by the majority.

While the PS3 will have it's shovelware, it's not going to sell. Wii shovelware DOES sell, that's the difference.

I can see where your coming from, it's the argument based around the 360 having a better attach rate, therefore it makes sense for developers to make games on the platform.

And it does, im not arguing that.

What we are seeing today though, im saying we PROBABLY won't see in the future. I'd even go as far to say, a few developers who wrote off the PS3, or were worried about it's install base, will be eating their words in the future - But I don't think they were at all crazy/wrong to have those worries earlier on. Everyone did, just about.

Games are going to sell well on it, Sony just made it hard on themselves and all the developers to see that in the early stages, due to PS3 prices, a crappy launch and Sony finding it hard to shuffle between trying to win a games war, and trying to win a movie war.

The movie war is out the way, so really, all their effort should be going into games now, and things related to games - Home/XMB/PSN, ect.

They don't really need to do much else with BR, it's the only HD format on the market. Obviously still push behind it, and get it to compete with DVDs, but what I mean is, they don't have any HD competition (no upscaled dvds are NOT HD), other than streaming/downloading - Which MANY write off as a distant future dream.

Edited by Audioboxer
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I think that Sony should do a price drop RIGHT before GTA4 comes out and make it as cheap as the X360.

PS3 for ?150? No chance:pp

They should drop it to the price of the elite though.

Thing is, I don't think they'll drop for GTA. Rumours of a GTA bundle, I think that's the best you'll get.

Internally, they will be being quite "cocky and arrogant" just now, with all the "Year of the PS3" hype, and the fact, let's face it, Sony know how the games they are releasing this year currently look - We don't, other than a preview or two, or a rumour.

They also probably have other milestones to hit, like Home, a new store, maybe a movie store and everything else still within the playing cards.

Fact is, believe it or not, no matter how practical a price drop for GTA4 seems to us, it MIGHT not be for Sony, from a business POV.

I know what I've said will probably be shot down with "OMG WHAT?!!!, PRICE DROP FOR GTA4 = WIN!", and I know it will help, but I say don't hold your breath.

PS3 price drop in 2008 I think, but more likely to coinside with one of the big PS exclusives and/or holiday season for reasons within Sony that I hint about above.

Sony also seem to be fairly confident (from what we've read/seen) their marketing approach to GTA4 coupled with the ever popular topic of "GTA PS "brand"?", will see them through.

When have Sony ever not been "confident" though?://:xx:laugh::

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I think that Sony should do a price drop RIGHT before GTA4 comes out and make it as cheap as the X360.

Wouldn't help much. It's not as if Microsoft can't push a price drop of their own quickly to regain a price advantage (an advantage they desperately need given accessory costs **cough**wifi**cough** ).

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For me GTA has always been by far more of a PC title than a PlayStation one.

GTA, London, GTA2, GTA3: all played on the PC, and San Andreas was Xbox all the way. Of course, the game doesn't belong to any platform, but different people associate it with different platforms all the time naturally.

Now about the PS3 DLC, I guess it has always been expected. Be it new clothing, music, whatever. Every game nowadays expands through DLC, so why not GTA?

Home integration, whatever it may be was pretty obvious too. Sony wants to push the platform so they need all the help they can get (and GTA is as good as it gets for that). Expect the "Gangsta of tha month" trophy very soon people.

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Slightly longer spikes for the bat and 'car armor' anyone? :p

Okay, I keed. I keed.

LOL!!! :laugh: - What's sad though is that you will probably end up being right. And those slightly longer spiked bats and car armor will cost like $1.99 each, or more, to boot. :no: And I am just going to go ahead and predict that the Xbox 360's DLC content will cost a minumum of $15 (or whatever that works out to in stupid Microsoft Points).

PS3 for ?150? No chance:pp

They should drop it to the price of the elite though.

Thing is, I don't think they'll drop for GTA. Rumours of a GTA bundle, I think that's the best you'll get.

Internally, they will be being quite "cocky and arrogant" just now, with all the "Year of the PS3" hype, and the fact, let's face it, Sony know how the games they are releasing this year currently look - We don't, other than a preview or two, or a rumour.

They also probably have other milestones to hit, like Home, a new store, maybe a movie store and everything else still within the playing cards.

Fact is, believe it or not, no matter how practical a price drop for GTA4 seems to us, it MIGHT not be for Sony, from a business POV.

I know what I've said will probably be shot down with "OMG WHAT?!!!, PRICE DROP FOR GTA4 = WIN!", and I know it will help, but I say don't hold your breath.

PS3 price drop in 2008 I think, but more likely to coinside with one of the big PS exclusives and/or holiday season for reasons within Sony that I hint about above.

Sony also seem to be fairly confident (from what we've read/seen) their marketing approach to GTA4 coupled with the ever popular topic of "GTA PS "brand"?", will see them through.

When have Sony ever not been "confident" though?://:xx:laugh::

You make a really great point about the price drop. Dropping the cost of a system does not instantly mean a 500% increase in sales, nor would it suddenly determine the winner inGrand Theft Auto IV> software sales. A great example of this is the recent Xbox 360 price cut over in Europe. When I first heard about it, I thought "No way! An Xbox 360 Arcade for cheaper then a Wii! Microsoft is gonna own Europe!" But look at the sales: even though Xbox 360 sales went up, it is still getting dominited by PS3 every week (and it has been since 2008 started). Price cuts are not everything.

This also brings up another point I want to make: brand loyalty does exist, and does make a difference. How else do you explain how the PlayStation 3 consistently dominates the Xbox 360 over in Europe, despite selling at a higher price and having less AAA titles available? The only question is if brand loyalty will make a difference inGTA IV> platform sales. I currently don't have an answer to that question, but I do think that the analyst who said Xbox 360 will outsell the PS3 version 2:1 will be wrong. Microsoft will sell more copies of it on their system for sure, but I don't think they will enjoy a 2:1 advantage. But we will all just have to wait and see what happens.

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Probably because he's either being very sarcastic, or he owns a PS3 and not a 360.

Or he's a keen supporter of Home :p

Believe it or not, those who are crazy for Home, and like the idea of getting GTA4 items/clothing/trophies in Home, may decide to buy over a 360 version.

Home is basically a 3D version of "pimp your gamerscore", or "grow your gaming e-peen".

Wanna look cool in Home? Unlock that GTA4 tshirt and wear it...

You know how that stuff goes with some people.

You make a really great point about the price drop. Dropping the cost of a system does not instantly mean a 500% increase in sales, nor would it suddenly determine the winner in Grand Theft Auto IV software sales. A great example of this is the recent Xbox 360 price cut over in Europe. When I first heard about it, I thought "No way! An Xbox 360 Arcade for cheaper then a Wii! Microsoft is gonna own Europe!" But look at the sales: even though Xbox 360 sales went up, it is still getting dominited by PS3 every week (and it has been since 2008 started). Price cuts are not everything.

This also brings up another point I want to make: brand loyalty does exist, and does make a difference. How else do you explain how the PlayStation 3 consistently dominates the Xbox 360 over in Europe, despite selling at a higher price and having less AAA titles available? The only question is if brand loyalty will make a difference in GTA IV platform sales. I currently don't have an answer to that question, but I do think that the analyst who said Xbox 360 will outsell the PS3 version 2:1 will be wrong. Microsoft will sell more copies of it on their system for sure, but I don't think they will enjoy a 2:1 advantage. But we will all just have to wait and see what happens.

To be fair we haven't seen a good month or two sales for the cheaper 360's. Although reports I posted late last week, said even with a large increase in UK 360 sales from the cut, the PS3 is still marginally ahead on a week to week base.

Think it was 360 up 74%, PS3 up 72%.

As for brand loyalty, of course it exists, but im not going to go into another dragged out under the microscope analysis of what brand loyalty is, and how much of an effect it may have... cba just now :p

Europe has always been strong PS territory, as well as Japan.

Japan seeing as it's the homeland, and Europe im not sure why exactly, the PS has just always done well there. I think seeing some games like Pro Evo Soccer pretty much PS exclusive in the past has helped grow the brand there. GT is also very popular in Europe.

The 360 is doing great in it's homeland USA, as you would expect, but it's also doing well in Europe this time around.

Europe is the must win in this race IMO, if you're planning to come out on top in sales. The PS3 will struggle and I don't think it will exceed USA 360 sales, and well, the 360 has a 0.0001% chance of outselling the PS3 in Japan.

So really, the only continent reasonably up for grabs between the two is Europe. Although the PS3 has a better chance at capturing the USA, than the 360 does Japan.

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Home integration will be nice, but I can't see this helping sales at the launch... Home isn't out yet and the average person doesn't know what it is? So Rockstar won't be able to market that they've got Home integration...

I remember reading somewhere that the exclusive DLC MS has paid for is exclusive and that if Rockstar want to sell it to Sony then they have to pay MS back the $50m... I can't source that though.

On the off-topic argument about console sales, I think this time around console sales won't be as accurate for who "won" the console war... I think profits are probably the best to decide who won, but the problem there is that the companies don't publish their profits as well as they do consoles shipped :p

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Home integration will be nice, but I can't see this helping sales at the launch... Home isn't out yet and the average person doesn't know what it is? So Rockstar won't be able to market that they've got Home integration...

I remember reading somewhere that the exclusive DLC MS has paid for is exclusive and that if Rockstar want to sell it to Sony then they have to pay MS back the $50m... I can't source that though.

On the off-topic argument about console sales, I think this time around console sales won't be as accurate for who "won" the console war... I think profits are probably the best to decide who won, but the problem there is that the companies don't publish their profits as well as they do consoles shipped :p

Profits, or sales revenue? In sales revenue, Sony would obviously win due to the high price of the PS3. Every time someone buys one, that's a minumum of $399 (up to a maximum of $499); with Wii you are looking at a flat $249; and with Xbox 360, most people buy the $349 system, a lot buy the $289 Arcade setup, and just a few buy the $449 Elite.

But if you look at profits, then Nintendo is just dominating. The Wii is the only system making a consistent profit right now, and it has been since day one. Sony still loses money on each PS3 sold. And I think that Microsoft makes a profit on the Xbox 360 Elite; breaks even or loses a little money on the Xbox 360 Premium; and definitely loses money on the Xbox 360 Arcade (remember, that external 20GB HDD on the Premium model only costs Microsoft like $15 to put in).

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Profits, or sales revenue? In sales revenue, Sony would obviously win due to the high price of the PS3. Every time someone buys one, that's a minumum of $399 (up to a maximum of $499); with Wii you are looking at a flat $249; and with Xbox 360, most people buy the $349 system, a lot buy the $289 Arcade setup, and just a few buy the $449 Elite.

But if you look at profits, then Nintendo is just dominating. The Wii is the only system making a consistent profit right now, and it has been since day one. Sony still loses money on each PS3 sold. And I think that Microsoft makes a profit on the Xbox 360 Elite; breaks even or loses a little money on the Xbox 360 Premium; and definitely loses money on the Xbox 360 Arcade (remember, that external 20GB HDD on the Premium model only costs Microsoft like $15 to put in).

I'm not sure if Nintendo are dominating profits... MS have a hell of a lot more software sales, and they do make a profit on each console sold now I think since the changeover to 65nm CPUs. MS also get the revenue from Live which includes DLC, subscription fees and arcade games.

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I'm not sure if Nintendo are dominating profits... MS have a hell of a lot more software sales, and they do make a profit on each console sold now I think since the changeover to 65nm CPUs. MS also get the revenue from Live which includes DLC, subscription fees and arcade games.

Yeah MS make a killing on Live subscriptions.

The RROD warranty investment will have hit them hard though.

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The thing is, we know almost nothing about the exclusive DLC the 360 is getting. While we've been told it'll be something substantial, we really don't have any details at all. More missions? More Multiplayer modes? Or maybe just more character models and cars? The point is, you can't exactly market "we'll get something really good down the line, we just don't know what it is yet".

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I don't get this "such-and-such a franchise belongs on such-and-such a platform". It doesn't make sense. The name of the platform doesn't affect the game at ALL. The platform itself might, but the PS3 and 360 versions are going to be identical bar some different DLC. It's like admitting you only want one console at any one time and don't care about competition.

If the 360 and the Wii didn't exist, do you really think Sony would have jumped to reduce the price of the PS3 so much? I reckon it'd still be hitting the $500 mark.

GTA is a multi-platform game. It always has been and always will be, so get it on whatever platform is best for you. I don't own a PS3, so my choice is easy, but if you happen to own both consoles (or are deciding on which console to get), do some research - is blu-ray really important to you? Are there many more games on one platform that you want to play? What are your friends getting it on (for the multiplayer)? These are the real factors you should be considering, not "does it have the PS logo on the box?". Otherwise, you're only risking spiting yourself and loosing out.

While I agree with you in principle, I think that HD-DVD had as much to do with PS3 price drops as anything else.

Otherwise, I agree with you.

My only factors for buying games are this:

Is it available on PS3 or PC? If yes, is it a good game? If yes, then is it something I would play? If yes, I buy.

I never really cared about multiplayer on GTA. Open world is good enough for me. Multiplayer is most important to me in games that have a straight linear storyline (especially a weak story), where I probably won't be playing through again.

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