Neowin discusses "The present & future of Xbox Live"


Xbox Live  

96 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you currently rate Live?

    • Exceptional
      31
    • Great
      47
    • Good
      14
    • Average
      3
    • Poor
      1
  2. 2. How long have you used Live for?

    • Long period of time (years)
      62
    • Decent period of time (6m to a year)
      22
    • Short period of time (1m-6m)
      12
  3. 3. How do you rate Lives future?

    • Promising
      64
    • Decent
      26
    • Bleak
      6


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Part of my Neowin Gamers Hangout Discusses series.

This series aims to jump into fiercely opinionated gaming topics, and open them up for the floor! If you have any good ideas, go ahead and post them! (format your topic similarly to mine to keep consistency!) It's our idea for the GH, not just mine (Y)

Ok this is an honest question/topic for all the 360 gamers on NW, myself included as I'll be kicking things off.

I want to start up some discussions on NW over the next few days/weeks discussing where we want our respected gaming companies/platforms/industry to go.

I aim to tackle the most opinionated topics in the gaming world just now, and you may ask why im doing it? Well it makes for fun and good discussions, plus it also allows good conversation writers to flourish - The idiots and disrespectful stand out like a sore thumb and im sure will be dealt with quickly, as I suspect this series of topics to be heavily watched by mods.

I'm trying to breathe some more unique life into these forums, news posts are great, but topics the community creates and feeds into can be the most satisfying (Y)

One word answers in topics like this don't tend to go a long way. Take time to express your feelings and gain respect amongst your forum users!

It's not for arguing between rival companies/bashing companies, but more for talking about what YOU like in each, and what YOU would want to see in each. Share your experiences with us, frustrating or pleasant!

Don't try to make other people's minds up, everyone has a unique contribution to add to this topic. Feel free to ask why people feel the way they do, but understand some people can be quite emotionally attached to their opinions. For those in that position, understand others are just questioning your stance, not attacking you in anyway (Y)

In taking part in this topic you're going to hit different opinions, keep things respectful, im sure you don't like having mud thrown at you for feeling different, so don't throw mud at others!

Let's roll...

My votes were Great/Short Period of Time/Promising

I'll kick things off then as simply as I can.

The below impressions are valid as of 02/04/2008.

They will be updated/changed as Live evolves.

Audioboxer's Live Usability/Design/Features/Performance Impressions

So, I've used Live since November 2007 now.

Apart from getting my NAT settings configured right for my 360 (more my routers fault! :laugh:), it kicked off a good experience and has been since!

I've never had any issues with speed on Live since day 1, either with downloading games or playing online.

Well, the only time I've had issues is if whoever is hosting a game is causing lag - Which leads me to one of my first future improvements which I'll talk about later.

Dashboard is easy to use, it's not my taste graphically, but it's far from hideous. On marketplace there can be a fair bit of scrolling involved though.

So overall from me, on the usability/performance side of things

8.5/10 Usability/Design/Features - Dashboard is easy to use, and downloading content from marketplace is simple enough. Some of the menus have a lot scrolling through though. Some niggles with scrolling/filtering through content prevents a higher score. Game invites/messaging are great, as well as in-game dashboard.

8/10 Performance - Downloading content has always been good speeds for me, just get lag occasionally when playing online - No dedicated servers.

Audioboxer's Looking at Content

Live is packed with content.

You have XBLA offering games, plently of demos and even movies/tv shows. Themes/Avatars as well.

On the gaming side you have your gamerscore as well to keep you occupied playing through games for achievements.

You also have xbox originals to try out!

9/10 Content - There is a ton of content on Live. I must admit I do ignore most of it, but that's just me. I'm rating it on how much content it has, not if I like everything that's being offered.

Audioboxer's Looking at the Future

What would I like most for Live?

For it to be free.

This is a highly discussed topic for Live. I never used Live during the Xbox era, but back then I think i'd of felt much more comfortable paying for the service in it's earlier years as it was something new, and I'd of been happy to help pioneer it.

Now Live is established though, and I feel it's just a money making trojan for MS. I feel instead of making money through a subscription they should entice people to spend the equivalent of their yearly Live fee on DLC/Movies and other meaningful content on Live.

If I bring competition in for one moment, one of the reasons I do root for PSN/Home is because at the core it's free, everything you pay for is optional purchases.

Right now with Live, playing Halo online with your friends isn't an optional expense, you HAVE to pay to play online.

Next I'd like to see more dedicated servers, simple as that, especially when we pay for Live. Part of my qualm about lag is down to the P2P style system on Live. I know some PS3 titles have dedicated servers, and I'd like to see more for 360 games.

I'd also like to see MS branch off from XBLA to offer what i'd call "fuller" titles. What I really mean by that is just lift the 150mb limit on games, and allow developers to make anything they want.

It would aid MS in their battle against the size based exclusives PSN might see.

I do believe XLNA I think it's called could be an evolution on this.

The last thing I can think of right now, is allowing us to BUY and OWN movies in proper 720p/1080p resolutions. Downloads would be large though, and their are constraints due to HDD space... but I'd still like to see the options to own, not just rent.

So in order from me,

1. Live goes free

2. Dedicated servers for popular titles

3. Ability for developers/MS to offer large/more fuller featured titles on Live

4. Movies to buy and own, not just rent

There we go, a start to the topic that should really last for an unlimited amount of time.

We'll constantly be discussing Live as it evolves and changes happen.

I'll be chipping in a lot more as the topic kicks off. What I've said above is really just some food for thought about what to post in here to get the ball rolling!

So, what do you guys want to say about the behemoth that is Live?

ps. As you can see, I'm trying to avoid an X vs Y discussion, it's more about focusing on Live ONLY. Of course you have to draw examples from competition for some of your points, that's understandable :yes:

psps. Please don't ruin this topic guys, if you can't see what im trying to do, please don't bash me and ruin my efforts at creating a more compatible/discussion based community. It's not nice living in one section of fear of being eaten alive when you visit another, or being taken to the hounds when you post a genuinely respectful criticism/opinion.

pspsps. May be spelling mistakes/inconsistencies, I'll fix after I get some sleep :laugh:

Keep it worthwhile and clean (Y)

Edited by Audioboxer
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I just got my 360 last Friday, but I have to say I'm very impressed with Xbox Live. It's fast, snappy, sleek... all hat good stuff. I'd love to see Live go free.

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I'll try and come back tomorrow or Thursday and elaborate (probably Thursday), but for now, my votes went for Exceptional, Long Period of Time (I was a Beta tester and have been using it ever since the beta period), and Promising.

-Spenser

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I'll try and come back tomorrow or Thursday and elaborate (probably Thursday), but for now, my votes went for Exceptional, Long Period of Time (I was a Beta tester and have been using it ever since the beta period), and Promising.

-Spenser

See, that is interesting to know.

Obvious why you know Live like the back of your hand therefore, and enjoy using it.

Clearly being involved in a project that long, you've seen it grow from zero to hero (Y)

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I've been using Xbox Live since 2004, and my overall experience has been wonderful. There is no other online "community" like it elsewhere.

I'd like to throw in my thoughts on your four opinions.

1. Live goes free

2. Dedicated servers for popular titles

3. Ability for developers/MS to offer large/more fuller featured titles on Live

4. Movies to buy and own, not just rent

1.

This is a give-and-take situation. I do see your point, however. I mean, what services are we actually paying for in regards to Xbox Live Gold? Not much. Perhaps if Microsoft used some of our subscription money to pay for dedicated servers, it would be more worth the price. If Xbox Live were a completely free service, though, I'm sure there would be a lot more little kids, "noobs" in general, and people with crappy connections playing in online games. Right now, I'll gladly pay the <$5 a month fee even if all it does is filter out the horde of idiots that don't pay for Gold service.

2.

See 1.

3.

This is a good idea. I would definitely shell out $20 or $30 on a large "Xbox Live Arcade" game. Maybe akin to a glorified demo like Gran Turismo 5 Prologue?

4.

I don't rent movies or anything on Xbox Live or iTunes or the like, because I generally prefer to have a physical copy of what I purchase. Being able to own full movies, though, I'm sure would be nice for some people.

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I've been using Xbox Live since 2004, and my overall experience has been wonderful. There is no other online "community" like it elsewhere.

I'd like to throw in my thoughts on your four opinions.

1. Live goes free

2. Dedicated servers for popular titles

3. Ability for developers/MS to offer large/more fuller featured titles on Live

4. Movies to buy and own, not just rent

1.

This is a give-and-take situation. I do see your point, however. I mean, what services are we actually paying for in regards to Xbox Live Gold? Not much. Perhaps if Microsoft used some of our subscription money to pay for dedicated servers, it would be more worth the price. If Xbox Live were a completely free service, though, I'm sure there would be a lot more little kids, "noobs" in general, and people with crappy connections playing in online games. Right now, I'll gladly pay the <$5 a month fee even if all it does is filter out the horde of idiots that don't pay for Gold service.

(Y) Exactly!

One of the main reasons why I don't mind paying the minimal fee for Live is that it discourages "new accounts" which all but negate the whole TruSkill Rating system in online matchmaking.

My votes were:

Exceptional - There is really nothing to complain about apart from some marketplace usability issues that they may be looking to implement in the future, such as a Search feature.

Long Period of Time - I have been a member since a little after it was initially publicly offered (Live 1.0 days).

Promising - They are always improving the Xbox 360/Live experience with each Dashboard update, and I'm sure the Spring update will be implementing features that the community has asked for as well as a handful of unforeseen improvements.

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3. Ability for developers/MS to offer large/more fuller featured titles on Live

they have already started that by giving us xbox original titles, so it is only a matter of time before others appear

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I really hope Live doesn't go free. I pay ?25 a year for my subscription, it's peanuts. I'd rather them just go head and improve the Gold service (dedicated servers).

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I really hope Live doesn't go free. I pay ?25 a year for my subscription, it's peanuts. I'd rather them just go head and improve the Gold service (dedicated servers).

See I don't understand that mentality?

When I'm discussing Live going free, I'm doing so with it going free withno> compromises - Offering what it does just now, for free, to everyone (no Silver/Gold tiers).

Why would you want to cash out on ?25, over saving ?25?

The way in which Live could go free without compromises is based on competition doing it for free, which is why, like I said in my post, I'm rooting for PSN/Home to capture what Live does.

Devils advocate question for PS3/360 owners.

If PSN/Home offered a service ON PAR or better than Live, would you be willing to shell out ?50 a year? (or more depending on how you do your subscription).

I certainly wouldn't.

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See I don't understand that mentality?

When I'm discussing Live going free, I'm doing so with it going free with no compromises - Offering what it does just now, for free, to everyone (no Silver/Gold tiers).

Why would you want to cash out on ?25, over saving ?25?

The way in which Live could go free without compromises is based on competition doing it for free, which is why, like I said in my post, I'm rooting for PSN/Home to capture what Live does.

Devils advocate question for PS3/360 owners.

If PSN/Home offered a service ON PAR or better than Live, would you be willing to shell out ?50 a year? (or more depending on how you do your subscription).

I certainly wouldn't.

As others have mentioned, it'd make the services a lot more accessible. You could say that's a good thing, but I don't see it that way. I'm happy paying ?25 a year to play with a mature audience.

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As others have mentioned, it'd make the services a lot more accessible. You could say that's a good thing, but I don't see it that way. I'm happy paying ?25 a year to play with a mature audience.>

:blink::

I would not say paying any money stops people who want to play on Live, from playing on Live. Seeing as to enjoy multiplayer in any form whatsoever you need to have Gold.

The rating system is there to stop abuse, not the monthly fee.

Poor reason to pay for the service IMO.

I've met plenty of potty mouthed people on Halo from all ages.

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:blink:

I would not say paying any money stops people who want to play on Live, from playing on Live. Seeing as to enjoy multiplayer in any form whatsoever you need to have Gold.

The rating system is there to stop abuse, not the monthly fee.

Poor reason to pay for the service IMO.

I've met plenty of potty mouthed people on Halo from all ages.

Of course it does. What kind of 12-14 year olds have access to ?40 a year? Their parents feed their gaming hobby, and I for sure I wouldn't let me 12 year old kid on Live.

You're bound to run into morons on any game or any service. It's not something you can combat totally, but I'd say Live is a fairly mature experience right now.

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I voted Good, Long period (5 years come May 10th), and Bleak. Xbox Live has been good to me these past years. The only problem I've ever encountered with the service is the "Christmas Day 07 fiasco".

they have already started that by giving us xbox original titles, so it is only a matter of time before others appear

The Xbox Originals are a ripoff. You're paying 1200 Microsoft Points (?10.20) to download an old Xbox game that you could buy in physical form for a fiver.

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live is good, but i hate the fact they charge for EVERYTHING!!!!

Which is where MS can make a good revenue stream from Live instead of charging to actually USE Live.

I'd much rather see optional expense rather than necessary expense.

And believe it or not, I'd probably be more encouraged to buy DLC/Movie/Other content off Live, if I knew I wasn't already chucking money at MS to pay to be Gold.

They could essentially end up getting more than my ?4.99 a month or w/e it is out of me on select months in the year when I spent more on DLC.

Right now though, I hardly touch DLC - That is party due to how much most of it is, a subject I go on about in one of my other topics, and partly because I'm already committing to give MS money every month for Live.

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As others have mentioned, it'd make the services a lot more accessible. You could say that's a good thing, but I don't see it that way. I'm happy paying ?25 a year to play with a mature audience.

A quick game of Halo 2 or Halo 3 online proves otherwise.

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Of course it does. What kind of 12-14 year olds have access to ?40 a year? Their parents feed their gaming hobby, and I for sure I wouldn't let me 12 year old kid on Live.

....but I'd say Live is a fairly mature experience right now.

Playing MMO's I call bull**** on this 'theory'- World of Warcraft must have the most immature base bar Live and that is?96 a yeari>. Which costs over double. It's infested with squeaky voiced pubescents and morons.

It doesn't matter on the price. You're not going to have an influx of children. They already could make ?4 a month on a paper round. Hell I use to get ?2 a week from my parents.

I can understand the fanboys/girls defending MS but coming from a PC it irks me to pay for something which I'm getting less for. I believe Sony has it right and I would gladly pay for dedicated servers with the most popular games to smooth things out.

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I voted Good, Long period (5 years come May 10th), and Bleak. Xbox Live has been good to me these past years. The only problem I've ever encountered with the service is the "Christmas Day 07 fiasco".

The Xbox Originals are a ripoff. You're paying 1200 Microsoft Points (?10.20) to download an old Xbox game that you could buy in physical form for a fiver.

thats not the point, the point is, it's a step in the right direction by bringing full games to xbl, doesnt matter what games they are or how much just that they are bringing full games (arcade games don't really count)

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I think personally, both Xbox Live and PSN has their advantages and disadvantages. Let me try and weigh some of the up here:

Xbox Live

Advantages

  • Nearly 10 million members (most of them on Halo 3 and Call of Duty 4)
  • Xbox Live Marketplace
  • A lot of good games on the Xbox Live Arcade
  • A ton of demos
  • Gamercards. (Achievements, seeing friends of friends, using a custom avatar, etc.)

Disadvantages

  • Headset included with every 360 that isn't an Arcade/Core one, meaning that you get a lot of immature gamers who never know when to shut up.
  • The ?40 a year membership. Yes, it's a quality service, but so is the PSN, and that's free!
  • Microsoft Points. Who thought of this? This is just delaying us buying stuff. Why didn't they stick with real money, like they did on the original Xbox?
  • Movie rentals at ridiculous prices. I could rent the same movie at Blockbuster for less and for longer. And why not let us buy movies?

PlayStation Network

Advantages>

  • It's free!
  • New sexy interface coming soon!
  • Uses real money.
  • Blu-Ray movie trailers in HD
  • Free themes and wallpapers!
  • Home! (when it comes out)
  • No headsets included, so you mainly get mature gamers who buy a headset to talk online
  • Supports practically any BlueTooth headset! Can anyone recommend me a good one for the PS3?
  • Can queue up to 15 downloads at a time. (Yes, I've done it a few times!:DD )
  • A free game! (Gran Turismo HD)

Disadvantages>

  • The current web interface, but that's going in a couple of weeks.
  • Weekly updates all the time
  • Not a lot of demos

Surprisingly, I've weighed up more PSN pros than Xbox Live pros! Don't ask me why, I just thought off the top of my head.

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[*]Headset included with every 360 that isn't an Arcade/Core one, meaning that you get a lot of immature gamers who never know when to shut up.

That's a disadvantage? :huh:

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Surprisingly, I've weighed up more PSN pros than Xbox Live pros! Don't ask me why, I just thought off the top of my head.

Yeah, that's what happens when you start putting down random stuff that's hardly an advantage.

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That's a disadvantage? :huh:

Well, possibly. It is an annoyance when you go on a game and you're greeted with a bunch of immature pricks who take every possibiliy to p**s off everyone in the room that is over the age of 12. I know that you can mute people, but it's too long to do in the middle of an online game, unless you're playing on Call of Duty 4 or Halo 3, in which case, you can mute the gits in about a second! :)

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A quick game of Halo 2 or Halo 3 online proves otherwise.

Just recently started playing alot of Halo 3 - this is so true

I wish I could slap people in the face from across the internet :p

Money fees wont keep shouting kids out and maintaining the LIVE servers can be financed by advertising..

I expect LIVE to go free in 2009 when PSN really shows what it can do...for free - and yeah, Im an analyst

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Well, possibly. It is an annoyance when you go on a game and you're greeted with a bunch of immature pricks who take every possibiliy to p**s off everyone in the room that is over the age of 12. I know that you can mute people, but it's too long to do in the middle of an online game, unless you're playing on Call of Duty 4 or Halo 3, in which case, you can mute the gits in about a second! :)

I couldn't agree more, but it's a not a BIG a deal as people make it out.

You'll find kids and morons on any service (yes, even PSN), just because Microsoft provide a headset with all their consoles really isn't a disadvantage. In fact, it's a great benefit. It just seems to highlight the problem.

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I think personally, both Xbox Live and PSN has their advantages and disadvantages. Let me try and weigh some of the up here:

Xbox Live

Advantages

  • Nearly 10 million members (most of them on Halo 3 and Call of Duty 4)
  • Xbox Live Marketplace
  • A lot of good games on the Xbox Live Arcade
  • A ton of demos
  • Gamercards. (Achievements, seeing friends of friends, using a custom avatar, etc.)

Disadvantages

  • Headset included with every 360 that isn't an Arcade/Core one, meaning that you get a lot of immature gamers who never know when to shut up.
  • The ?40 a year membership. Yes, it's a quality service, but so is the PSN, and that's free!
  • Microsoft Points. Who thought of this? This is just delaying us buying stuff. Why didn't they stick with real money, like they did on the original Xbox?
  • Movie rentals at ridiculous prices. I could rent the same movie at Blockbuster for less and for longer. And why not let us buy movies?

PlayStation Network

Advantages>

  • It's free!
  • New sexy interface coming soon!
  • Uses real money.
  • Blu-Ray movie trailers in HD
  • Free themes and wallpapers!
  • Home! (when it comes out)
  • No headsets included, so you mainly get mature gamers who buy a headset to talk online
  • Supports practically any BlueTooth headset! Can anyone recommend me a good one for the PS3?
  • Can queue up to 15 downloads at a time. (Yes, I've done it a few times!:DD )
  • A free game! (Gran Turismo HD)

Disadvantages>

  • The current web interface, but that's going in a couple of weeks.
  • Weekly updates all the time
  • Not a lot of demos

Surprisingly, I've weighed up more PSN pros than Xbox Live pros! Don't ask me why, I just thought off the top of my head.

Taken any blows to the head recently? I mean, come on. It's a well known fact that PSN is way behing Live!.

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