MGS4-SS Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Damn Boz, you make mountains out of mole hills. Nobody is forcing you to buy the DS3, you can play any PS3 perfectly fine with a normal Sixaxis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethos Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 I like how to mention Hardware out of the blue as 'mistake' - Call me a fanboy, but how is that a mistake? Was it even a decision? As far as i know and we've been told, one of the factories creating an enormous badge of the 360's had been making a build design mistake on the motherboard/X-Plates, while the other factories made them correctly. How can that be seen as a decision from Microsoft's side, how can it been seen as a mistake? Microsoft had no say in it, it just happened but they took steps to fix it. Perhaps if they were building the 360's themselves ... But releasing a console and keep tacking every freakin' feature on along the way like some sorta' test product ... that's what I'd call bad decision. Guess that's just my view of this, i do agree with some of Boz's points ( Not all of them ), i do feel screwed by Sony on certain aspects, but i still love most of my PS3's features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huleboeren Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 blah blah blah Why havent you sold your PS3 yet? :s You obviously hate it and the company For everyones sake, just buy a standalone blu-ray player (DOESNT HAVE TO BE A SONY ONE :o) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted April 2, 2008 Subscriber² Share Posted April 2, 2008 I like how to mention Hardware out of the blue as 'mistake' - Call me a fanboy, but how is that a mistake? Was it even a decision? As far as i know and we've been told, one of the factories creating an enormous badge of the 360's had been making a build design mistake on the motherboard/X-Plates, while the other factories made them correctly. How can that be seen as a decision from Microsoft's side, how can it been seen as a mistake? Microsoft had no say in it, it just happened but they took steps to fix it. Perhaps if they were building the 360's themselves ... But releasing a console and keep tacking every freakin' feature on along the way like some sorta' test product ... that's what I'd call bad decision. Guess that's just my view of this, i do agree with some of Boz's points ( Not all of them ), i do feel screwed by Sony on certain aspects, but i still love most of my PS3's features. Yes it was a mistake and decision, MS made the consoles out of their own designed hardware. It was a mistake by the team in MS who designed the console, and a mistake from the testing guys who failed to find the fault. It was a decision to speed things up from the top tier administration in MS to get the 360 out quickly which led to the mistakes in the hardware. Microsoft had no say in it Cmon Michael, the 360 belongs to MS, if they had no say in the building of the 360/testing and timescale it was released in, who did? God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbauer Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 I can't believe all this about a stupid controller. Look, this happens. At least it's just a controller. You can go out and buy a controller for $50, big deal. I have both consoles, and I'm a much bigger MS fanboy than a Sony fanboy, but yet I am more upset about not having an HDMI port in my old Xbox 360. At least you can go out a buy the controller. What can I do? rip the back of the console out and replace it? No, I'd have to go buy a new one. No discount program, no trade-in program. No nothing. And why is that? Because that's what happens with technology products. This isn't a Sony story. This is an industry story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethos Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 They outsourced some of the production of the 360 to an 'oriental' factory. This factory created a huge badge of flawed consoles. This was not Microsoft making them, this was not Microsoft's "Mistake", perhaps if they knew this factory was not doing its job properly from the get go, you could blame them. Yes, there may be a whole lot of other things to point fingers at, like the fact it took them ages to do something about it etc. that was perhaps a mistake, but i still don't see how you can blame Microsoft for the failure of some random asian factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted April 2, 2008 Subscriber² Share Posted April 2, 2008 They outsourced some of the production of the 360 to a 'oriental' factory. This factory created a huge badge of flawed consoles. This was not Microsoft making them, this was not Microsoft's "Mistake", perhaps if they knew this factory was not doing its job properly.Yes, there may be a whole lot of other things to point fingers at, like the fact it took them ages to do something about it etc. that was perhaps a mistake, but i still don't see how you can blame Microsoft for the failure of some random asian factory. MS DESIGNED THE INSIDE/HARDWARE OF THE CONSOLE. All the people do in the factories is make things to the plans MS give them. It was a design fault in early 360 models, not because 1 factory screwed up the 360's. Why do you think MS updated the motherboards/cooling, instead of just making the same 360's in a new factory? Jeeeez, it was their mistake, their decision(s). I do NOT understand what is hard to grasp here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boz Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 I can't believe all this about a stupid controller. Look, this happens. At least it's just a controller. You can go out and buy a controller for $50, big deal. I have both consoles, and I'm a much bigger MS fanboy than a Sony fanboy, but yet I am more upset about not having an HDMI port in my old Xbox 360. At least you can go out a buy the controller. What can I do? rip the back of the console out and replace it? No, I'd have to go buy a new one. No discount program, no trade-in program. No nothing. And why is that? Because that's what happens with technology products. This isn't a Sony story. This is an industry story. 1. There's no replacement program for Xbox 360 because all you are doing is nitpicking with HDMI. Your console works the same as the one with HDMI. No difference. It's just a different connection to your TV, that's all. 2. It's not a matter of just controller. None of the console manufacturers beside Sony replaced their controllers. Wii has their own controller that has not changed, Xbox 360 has it's own controllers that have not changed and all accessories have not changed. Sony is the only company that changed the features and capabilities of pretty much everything (no matter how small) from the actual console to the controller. And all this is happenig because they rushed the console out and now we are paying the price. They knew this would happen and it's more money in their pocket. That's not how industry works. It's how they work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huleboeren Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 ^ Youre kidding ..us.. right? April fools too late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted April 2, 2008 Subscriber² Share Posted April 2, 2008 1. There's no replacement program for Xbox 360 because all you are doing is nitpicking with HDMI. Your console works the same as the one with HDMI. No difference. It's just a different connection to your TV, that's all. 2. It's not a matter of just controller. None of the console manufacturers beside Sony replaced their controllers. Wii has their own controller that has not changed, Xbox 360 has it's own controllers that have not changed and all accessories have not changed. Sony is the only company that changed the features and capabilities of pretty much everything (no matter how small) from the actual console to the controller. And all this is happenig because they rushed the console out and now we are paying the price. They knew this would happen and it's more money in their pocket. That's not how industry works. It's how they work. 1. There's no replacement program for Xbox 360 because all you are doing is nitpicking with HDMI. Your console works the same as the one with HDMI. No difference. It's just a different connection to your TV, that's all. What the hell? 1. There's no replacement program for PS3 Sixaxis because all you are doing is nitpicking with rumble. Your console/controller works the same as the one with rumble. No difference. It's just a different way of experiencing games, that's all. 2. It's not a matter of just controller. None of the console manufacturers beside Sony replaced their controllers. Wii has their own controller that has not changed, Xbox 360 has it's own controllers that have not changed and all accessories have not changed. Sony is the only company that changed the features and capabilities of pretty much everything (no matter how small) from the actual console to the controller. And all this is happenig because they rushed the console out and now we are paying the price. They knew this would happen and it's more money in their pocket. That's not how industry works. It's how they work. MS changed hard drive sizes, console hardware externally and internally. I also seem to see MS hardware changes were made as the 360 was rushed out of the door and hit issues with the RROD. See, both made mistakes and decisions that caused mistakes. MS also supported HD DVD, and now your 360 HD DVD addon is pretty much a paperweight for future use - Oh how you'll love that one Boz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGS4-SS Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 1. There's no replacement program for Xbox 360 because all you are doing is nitpicking with HDMI. Your console works the same as the one with HDMI. No difference. It's just a different connection to your TV, that's all. 2. It's not a matter of just controller. None of the console manufacturers beside Sony replaced their controllers. Wii has their own controller that has not changed, Xbox 360 has it's own controllers that have not changed and all accessories have not changed. Sony is the only company that changed the features and capabilities of pretty much everything (no matter how small) from the actual console to the controller. And all this is happenig because they rushed the console out and now we are paying the price. They knew this would happen and it's more money in their pocket. That's not how industry works. It's how they work. Two pictures will hopefully make you understand: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scirwode Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Unfortunately, I have to agree with Boz on some points. Fact of the matter is, the Sixaxis controller was a joke as it was too light and some of the buttons were really uncomfortable to use. For a machine that was engineered to be a premium product, Sony provided a sub standard input device which really brought the experience down for me. Don't get me wrong, I like the PS3 and I believe it has a lot of potential, I just feel that Sony should at least have become a bit bolder when it comes to designing the new controller for PS3. The boomerang design that was introduced earlier actually looked pretty comfortable compared to what we have now. It's pointless now though as we will never know if they made the right decision or not. Right now, I like the Xbox 360 controller as it's very comfortable in my hands. And to people saying that Microsoft have made mistakes, yes they did but they learn from them quickly. The HDMI issue was nothing much really as like Boz said, it's just using less wires and does not make that much of a difference in our gaming experience. Say what you will about Microsoft, but at least they're acknowledging their mistakes and doing something to rectify it. I'm still peeved that Sony was convinced there was nothing wrong with the PS2 DVD drive. Sony has made a lot of bad business decisions lately, from the PS2 DVD to the backwards compatibility for the PS3. They've alienated a lot of their customers by their bad business decisions alone, not to mention the cost of the PS3 and games itself. I hope that at least with the release of the DS3, Sony might start improving it's PR division as they've got a lot of work to do ahead of them. Scirwode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethos Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 MS DESIGNED THE INSIDE/HARDWARE OF THE CONSOLE.All the people do in the factories is make things to the plans MS give them. It was a design fault in early 360 models, not because 1 factory screwed up the 360's. Why do you think MS updated the motherboards/cooling, instead of just making the same 360's in a new factory? Jeeeez, it was their mistake, their decision(s). I do NOT understand what is hard to grasp here. The flaw was not with the Hardware itself, the flaw was with the over-tightened X-plates holding down the cooling! ( Aka The problem lies with the people who built it ) It was stated by Microsoft i believe, they had problems with one Factory who was building a huge badge of their 360's. The factory had a flaw in the build process of their badge of consoles, that's what has been stated. ( Not faulty design plans ) The design flaw from what i understand, was NOT in every first-gen consoles, just a huge number of these due to this factory being their main partner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CY:G Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Few bad decisions from Microsoft that affect me personally: Bad components: - Thank god i havent gotten a RROD but still my tray gets stuck really really often, i have to press the eject button about 50 times until it fully ejects. - If i put my 360 on vertical position the tray wont open at all..., ever. Crippled - No Wi Fi, i prefer cable but i know for sure that Wi Fi will come in handy when i move... - No HDMi..., i know they have it now, should i ask Microsoft to compensate me? - No 3rd party stuff, for the love of God, let me use the Logitech G25 to play forza!!!!, how about using another Wi Fi antena that doesnt cost an arm and a leg...., AND PLEASE, let me use Keyboard/Mouse and user content on UT3!!! I know there are more, but those are the ones that affect me the most.... Every company makes bad decisions and mistakes, made by human == not perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbauer Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 1. There's no replacement program for Xbox 360 because all you are doing is nitpicking with HDMI. Your console works the same as the one with HDMI. No difference. It's just a different connection to your TV, that's all. 2. It's not a matter of just controller. None of the console manufacturers beside Sony replaced their controllers. Wii has their own controller that has not changed, Xbox 360 has it's own controllers that have not changed and all accessories have not changed. Sony is the only company that changed the features and capabilities of pretty much everything (no matter how small) from the actual console to the controller. And all this is happenig because they rushed the console out and now we are paying the price. They knew this would happen and it's more money in their pocket. That's not how industry works. It's how they work. I'm nit picking because I want to use HDMI? I paid for a TV with multiple HDMI connections so I want to use them. Microsoft made a mistake by not adding that originally. They didn't add it in because they were bored. They added it because people complained. Obviously, it's important to a lot of people. Sure, nobody else changed their controller, but Xbox sure as hell changed a lot of other things. I'm not even going to bother repeating because everyone else has mentioned it throughout the thread. I'm not saying I'm for one or the other, but what you don't seem to understand is that things change. You may be covering your eyes when MS changes something, but that doesn't make them non-existent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted April 2, 2008 Subscriber² Share Posted April 2, 2008 The flaw was not with the Hardware itself, the flaw was with the over-tightened X-plates holding down the cooling! ( Aka The problem lies with the people who built it )It was stated by Microsoft i believe, they had problems with one Factory who was building a huge badge of their 360's. The factory had a flaw in the build process of their badge of consoles, that's what has been stated. ( Not faulty design plans ) The design flaw from what i understand, was NOT in every first-gen consoles, just a huge number of these due to this factory being their main partner. Your knowledge came from where? MS have never officially said on record EXACTLY what causes the RROD as it's such an unpredictable error. All we know is it caused them to rip apart the 360, change cooling and issue new motherboards. Along with giving out a 3yr warranty. http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives/jake_...th_failures.php Most of what I know came from there/other sites. It's a hardware/design flaw. This is the first time I've ever seen someone blaming one factory/over blaming MS for the whole RROD fiasco. Sorry but you're probably going to be alone on that one - The 360 is a piece of MS' hardware, and if it's faulty, especially on the scale it was, it's their fault one way or another. Whether that be because the design was faulty, or the testing department in MS failed to stress test the 360's enough to pickup on hardware failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boz Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Two pictures will hopefully make you understand: I don't really understand your point with showing pictures of ancient Xbox controller. We won't even go into the fact that initial Xbox was Microsoft's first attempt at consoles. And I don't even remember the first controller. I always got the second one with every Xbox. Xbox 360 and Wii have the same things (with an exclusion of Xbox 360's HDMI) as they were sold on the first day. The only thing that is upgraded in Xbox 360 is the CPU manufacturing that has no impact on really anything to an individual. It's just more efficient CPU. Let's not even go with the fact that you paid PS3 the most out of all 3 consoles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 whether its design or factory, MS are still responsible for fixing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethos Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Most of my knowledge came from Spartan_X ( Yes, the Neowin Member. He had some 'insider knowledge' about this and mentioned some of all this, perhaps he wasn't telling the truth? ) and various older articles ( Which I'm not gonna dig up, for the sake of an Internet argument ). But let's agree to disagree, hate having arguments span over several pages, feels like such a waste :) whether its design or factory, MS are still responsible for fixing it. And i believe they did, by offering a 3 year warranty and upgrading pretty much every component in their future consoles releases O.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCheese Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 The images of the xbox controller are referring to the fact that the first Xbox came with a really big controller. The Japanese one came with a smaller controller (Apparently to fit Japanese hands which are smaller) but eventually MS changed the US controller to the Japanese one(and bundled it inside new xbox consoles) People who only had the old one had to buy new ones. This is NO different than the PS3 and the DS3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted April 2, 2008 Subscriber² Share Posted April 2, 2008 Most of my knowledge came from Spartan_X ( Yes, the Neowin Member. He had some 'insider knowledge' about this and mentioned some of all this, perhaps he wasn't telling the truth? ) and various older articles ( Which I'm not gonna dig up, for the sake of an Internet argument ).But let's agree to disagree, hate having arguments span over several pages, feels like such a waste :) Don't even remind us of how Spartan_X used to behave at times. I wouldn't be surprised if things he said were complete nonsense. Not attacking the guy, he wasn't a bad person, just didn't do much to help his reputation on the internet, or Neowin at times. Yeah definitely agree to disagree, im sorry, but nothing can change me seeing the RROD caused by anything other than bad decisions/mistakes by MS. Sony's exploding batteries were sure as hell blamed on Sony, not the factory who made them. It was Sony's fault something as dangerous/poorly made got out like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightz Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 Most of my knowledge came from Spartan_X ( Yes, the Neowin Member. He had some 'insider knowledge' about this and mentioned some of all this, perhaps he wasn't telling the truth? ) and various older articles ( Which I'm not gonna dig up, for the sake of an Internet argument ).But let's agree to disagree, hate having arguments span over several pages, feels like such a waste :) And i believe they did, by offering a 3 year warranty and upgrading pretty much every component in their future consoles O.o since this thread has gone to the crapper anyway, might as well ask...whatever did happen to spartan_x? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethos Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 The images of the xbox controller are referring to the fact that the first Xbox came with a really big controller. The Japanese one came with a smaller controller (Apparently to fit Japanese hands which are smaller) but eventually MS changed the US controller to the Japanese one(and bundled it inside new xbox consoles) People who only had the old one had to buy new ones. This is NO different than the PS3 and the DS3. And what makes you think no one was upset by that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted April 2, 2008 Subscriber² Share Posted April 2, 2008 since this thread has gone to the crapper anyway, might as well ask...whatever did happen to spartan_x? Posting rights suspended, I don't know if he ever got fully banned or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magik Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Wow, I'm not sure why everyone has jumped on Boz so much. IMO, he is absolutely right. Although the best course of action is debatable, I agree that some sort of minor rebate or something from Sony should be made, but lets not kid ourselves. This is Sony we're talking about. Why should they? Because it's not a "you have to live with it because you're an early adopter issue", that's not it at all, or at least it shouldn't be. Because a new controller with rumble capabilities is a completely new feature and people with a SixAxis are really getting the bunt-end of the deal for when new games with rumble capabilities are released. Nether the Wii or the Xbox 360 have added anything to their consoles that you couldn't do on a launch-day console. HDMI-enabled Xbox 360s is a sorry excuse for a comparative argument, since 1080p output and Optical Audio has been available since launch. Ah, anyway, I'm glad the DS3s are going to start being bundled with the PS3s. My purchase is nigh! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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