Ubuntu 8.04 this Thursday


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Ubuntu is definitely the best Linux Distro. And I hope that this one will FINALLY support my GFX card out of the box =_=;

Sadly, I don't have any use for a Linux on my PC, what I use the most on my PC is games and Photoshop.

Photoshop C2 and Lightroom work through WINE.

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I do everything in ubuntu, except when I need to run some windows scripting. The only problem I have is that when I play Warcraft III, I can't seem to receive messages from anyone on Battle.Net...whispers works though.

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Going back on the wine thing: Why doesn't the repos get updated with new versions of apps when they're released? I understand not updating the core apps that ship with Ubuntu, but for other apps that must be downloaded from the get go, it doesn't make sense to me. There are tons of things in the repos and I seriously doubt they checked every single app available to make sure it works with the latest Ubuntu. I know about backports, but I still don't grasp why its not done with the normal repos.

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Going back on the wine thing: Why doesn't the repos get updated with new versions of apps when they're released? I understand not updating the core apps that ship with Ubuntu, but for other apps that must be downloaded from the get go, it doesn't make sense to me. There are tons of things in the repos and I seriously doubt they checked every single app available to make sure it works with the latest Ubuntu. I know about backports, but I still don't grasp why its not done with the normal repos.

It has to do with the package maintainers and how stable the package is on ubuntu

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Hey guys, which is faster/stable ?

1) Running Ubuntu through Wubi

2) Running Ubuntu through VMWare

[or any Linux Distro for that matter]

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Installed the RC on Saturday and everything works apart from my wireless card (Stupid broadcom wireless cards). So I'll give that another bash once the final has been released I think.

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Hey guys, which is faster/stable ?

1) Running Ubuntu through Wubi

2) Running Ubuntu through VMWare

[or any Linux Distro for that matter]

Faster: wubi

Stable: I will guess wubi on this, as it runs on your real hardware, not through an extra complication of a virtual system running in another OS.

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Faster: wubi

Stable: I will guess wubi on this, as it runs on your real hardware, not through an extra complication of a virtual system running in another OS.

Glad to hear 8.04 is coming with Wubi integrated!

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Going back on the wine thing: Why doesn't the repos get updated with new versions of apps when they're released? I understand not updating the core apps that ship with Ubuntu, but for other apps that must be downloaded from the get go, it doesn't make sense to me. There are tons of things in the repos and I seriously doubt they checked every single app available to make sure it works with the latest Ubuntu. I know about backports, but I still don't grasp why its not done with the normal repos.

What would you prefer - a stable running system the packages for which have undergone (some) quality assurance or a system with bleeding edge packages with potential instabilities?

No Linux distribution adds updates from upstream immediately to their repos. It would be asking for trouble if they did.

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I've been following Ubuntu (off and on :p) for a while now, however, after a (very) bad experience with 7.10 I think I'll give this a miss. Basically I attempted to install (dual-boot) 7.10, it had it's own HDD and the install went without a hitch. After rebooting I was greeted with an error (Grub error 25 I think it was) and it also messed with drive letters etc so Windows couldn't boot at all. After a few hours of trying to get 7.10 to work, I ended up using Ghost to rescue my machine.

In hindsight I probably shouldn't of installed it, especially after the warning signs! for some strange reason when I boot 7.10 (the LiveCD that is) I get "no signal" during the booting up and then my monitor turns back on once I get to the desktop and the internet doesn't work at all, sees the network, the other computers, the router and can access them but not the net...I couldn't fix it either.

It was a shame though, would of been fun to to have it dual-booted with it, then I could of messed around with it more (can only do so much with a LiveCD plus I wanted to check out Beryl which only works if you install it obviously :p)

EDIT: I might give 8.04 a go with this Wubi, looks like a better option for me (allows me to play with it and not mess up my system, win win really :happy: ). From what I can tell, Wubi seems to work in a similar way to a version of BeOS I tried out many years ago (i.e. you install it in Windows and the OS exists within a single file, much like a VM except it used your actual hardware) would that be a fair assumption?

Edited by Xerxes
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I've been following Ubuntu (off and on :p) for a while now, however, after a (very) bad experience with 7.10 I think I'll give this a miss. Basically I attempted to install (dual-boot) 7.10, it had it's own HDD and the install went without a hitch. After rebooting I was greeted with an error (Grub error 25 I think it was) and it also messed with drive letters etc so Windows couldn't boot at all. After a few hours of trying to get 7.10 to work, I ended up using Ghost to rescue my machine.

In hindsight I probably shouldn't of installed it, especially after the warning signs! for some strange reason when I boot 7.10 (the LiveCD that is) I get "no signal" during the booting up and then my monitor turns back on once I get to the desktop and the internet doesn't work at all, sees the network, the other computers, the router and can access them but not the net...I couldn't fix it either.

It was a shame though, would of been fun to to have it dual-booted with it, then I could of messed around with it more (can only do so much with a LiveCD plus I wanted to check out Beryl which only works if you install it obviously :p)

EDIT: I might give 8.04 a go with this Wubi, looks like a better option for me (allows me to play with it and not mess up my system, win win really :happy: ). From what I can tell, Wubi seems to work in a similar way to a version of BeOS I tried out many years ago (i.e. you install it in Windows and the OS exists within a single file, much like a VM except it used your actual hardware) would that be a fair assumption?

  • Linux doesn't mess with Windows drive letters (Microsoft actually has a horrible system for 'lettering' partitions, in my opinion. It is predictable but arbitrary. The act of adding partitions can change Windows drive letters, and is completely within Microsoft's responsibility.
  • That grub error sounds like what typically happens when drive configuration is altered between install and boot, or if customized grub install options are incorrectly selected. Grub starts, but where it is told to go next doesn't exist. A little more info on your configuration the next time would help us fix this.
  • The "no signal" thing is just that your monitor can't handle the resolution/frequency that Ubuntu set your video card to. Your card can do it, just not the display. There are ways to limit this or switch this to ranges your display can handle. If you try Linux again and run into this, just post here in the forums, and we can help get that sorted out.
  • Network, no idea. If this is wireless, that might explain it - especially if your chipset is unsupported. There are options, like ndiswrapper to use the Windows driver in Linux. I have no experience with this, and from what I gather, it isn't always 100% successful. :(
  • wubi does work much like you think. Minus the virtual machine part. It is directly running Linux - No Windows at all. The Linux filesystems are really residing as files within your NTFS partition, and Linux file calls to files kind of go through the ext3 filesystem onto your NTFS drive. There is very little overhead, from what I gather, but I have not seen benchmarks.

Lots of bullets, even to items you didn't need addressed, but I just felt like being thorough I guess. :unsure:

would i be able to run the adobe cs3 suite via wine on ubuntu? if so then ill move over...

Short answer, no.

http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobePhotoshop

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Installed the RC on Saturday and everything works apart from my wireless card (Stupid broadcom wireless cards). So I'll give that another bash once the final has been released I think.

Just use ndiswrapper to get your broadcom wireless card working. Otherwise you're stuck with a 1 Mbps limit if you use the open source implementation. For some reason, there is a problem in Hardy that prevents you from using ndiswrapper normally. Find the fix here.

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Hows wubi in 8.04 working with vista is it automatic or do still need to manually edit bcd to add it and stuff ?

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I try and try distro's over and over.. and ubuntu is much easier to work with. But after figuring out how to get everything to work, getting the gui to look how I want it to.. im stuck at what to do next. I then have to use applications that I touch on a day to day basis which will not work on the linux os. I search and search.. try wine or a vm for XP but it just seems like I have to jump through hoops to get what I need on linux that windows has easier. I like new different things.. and always jump to linux about once a year to check out new additions but have to format it because of that stopping point where there is just no benefit.

I still have not found someone who could tell me.. after I get passed the customization and the hardware fixes... besides surfing the internet what else can I do with linux? P.S. I don't burn cd's often, I don't listen to music on my laptop.

I WILL be trying 8.04.

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...

I still have not found someone who could tell me.. after I get passed the customization and the hardware fixes... besides surfing the internet what else can I do with linux? P.S. I don't burn cd's often, I don't listen to music on my laptop.

...

What else can you do in Linux?

Your tasks are almost unlimited. If you have an attachment to (or requirement for) a particular app, then your issue is app-specific, not an OS one.

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[*] Linux doesn't mess with Windows drive letters (Microsoft actually has a horrible system for 'lettering' partitions, in my opinion. It is predictable but arbitrary. The act of adding partitions can change Windows drive letters, and is completely within Microsoft's responsibility.

Well it did in the sense it made the partition that Ubuntu was installed in C:\ (which normally would be fine) but since it failed to load, it left Ubuntu as the active partition so Windows couldn't boot (cause it would look to drive "C" but can't find Windows on it). While I agree technically it wasn't Linux's fault (as this has happened to me with a failed Windows install, dual-boot also) it was still rather annoying. I just blamed Linux because that is what you do when your frustrated, blame something other then yourself :laugh:

[*] That grub error sounds like what typically happens when drive configuration is altered between install and boot, or if customized grub install options are incorrectly selected. Grub starts, but where it is told to go next doesn't exist. A little more info on your configuration the next time would help us fix this.

This error was caused from Grub not been installed properly, I did a fair bit of googling and attempted to reinstall it etc but all attempts failed. It didn't give any errors during the install either. It just installed fine without a hitch, reboot and error every time...seems to be this version, I've never had such problems with older versions of Ubuntu so perhaps they changed something, I dunno for sure. Well that strictly isn't true, my old machine used to run Ubuntu fine, now every time you try to run even a LiveCD on it the kernel panics or something crashes...I'm guessing there is some hardware issues to blame there, odd it runs Windows flawlessly or perhaps not :p

[*] The "no signal" thing is just that your monitor can't handle the resolution/frequency that Ubuntu set your video card to. Your card can do it, just not the display. There are ways to limit this or switch this to ranges your display can handle. If you try Linux again and run into this, just post here in the forums, and we can help get that sorted out.

Seems an odd problem to me, 7.04 didn't have this problem and it seems a little strange they'd change the resolution of the boot screen in the next release, but is probably just me.

[*] Network, no idea. If this is wireless, that might explain it - especially if your chipset is unsupported. There are options, like ndiswrapper to use the Windows driver in Linux. I have no experience with this, and from what I gather, it isn't always 100% successful. :(

Once again, worked fine in 7.04 and doesn't work in 7.10..I just don't get it!

[*] wubi does work much like you think. Minus the virtual machine part. It is directly running Linux - No Windows at all. The Linux filesystems are really residing as files within your NTFS partition, and Linux file calls to files kind of go through the ext3 filesystem onto your NTFS drive. There is very little overhead, from what I gather, but I have not seen benchmarks.

All and all sounds like a better way for me to play with Linux, at least I don't have to format my computer every time I screw something up...right?

Lots of bullets, even to items you didn't need addressed, but I just felt like being thorough I guess. :unsure:

No worries, appreciate all your efforts :happy:

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Very true, but I didn't want to elaborate into the fact that Microsoft has cornered the market and since 9*% of people use windows thats what developers want to primarily develop for. But since you can't use x and y on linux what does everyone else do? On a typical day with your linux box.. what is it that you are doing? Do you just surf the net, hop on Neowin or are you productive in other ways? I never said that Linux was the problem.. I just said that I don't know how to use the OS to benefit me... and I want to.

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My computer is a home computer. Email (thunderbird), web (firefox), family photos (gimp), ripping my music collection (grip and mplayer for playback), Instant messaging (pidgin), distributed computing (boinc), learning a bit more about webservers and PHP (apache & php, local only, no outward facing). I want to learn a programming language, so I have java and python installed also. Not sure if I want to concentrate on PHP, python or java.

I have OO.o and abiword and gnumeric installed, if I need to work on stuff from work at home. I try to keep that to a minimum, as my home life is busy with 4 kids active in sports.

My computer has a separate login for the kids, if they want to play games online, plus I have retail UT2k4 and Doom3 Demo for shooting action for them, if they please.

I have no other needs for my home computer at this time, but if things change, I feel confident that Linux and the Open Source apps freely available can meet my needs. (not to say that it can meet everyone's needs, for example someone who needs to author flash, or works with VBA macros in Excel)

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What would you prefer - a stable running system the packages for which have undergone (some) quality assurance or a system with bleeding edge packages with potential instabilities?

No Linux distribution adds updates from upstream immediately to their repos. It would be asking for trouble if they did.

I would prefer a stable system, of course, but as I said, its doubtful all of those apps in Ubuntu's repos have been fully tested anyway. Besides, if an application is released as "stable" then it should be safe for general consumption. If its not, then don't call it stable to begin with.

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My computer is a home computer. Email (thunderbird), web (firefox), family photos (gimp), ripping my music collection (grip and mplayer for playback), Instant messaging (pidgin), distributed computing (boinc), learning a bit more about webservers and PHP (apache & php, local only, no outward facing). I want to learn a programming language, so I have java and python installed also. Not sure if I want to concentrate on PHP, python or java.

I have OO.o and abiword and gnumeric installed, if I need to work on stuff from work at home. I try to keep that to a minimum, as my home life is busy with 4 kids active in sports.

My computer has a separate login for the kids, if they want to play games online, plus I have retail UT2k4 and Doom3 Demo for shooting action for them, if they please.

I have no other needs for my home computer at this time, but if things change, I feel confident that Linux and the Open Source apps freely available can meet my needs. (not to say that it can meet everyone's needs, for example someone who needs to author flash, or works with VBA macros in Excel)

I see. I have tried Gimp and think it is very nice.. there is just that conversion barrier I deal with. I've used photoshop for over 10 years and am used to the interface. I also have done searches for top programs for linux and have come up dry as far as the choices presented to me. Linux is an OS that should allow me to do more and open the spectrum for opportunity. I am sure there is a huge database of programs out there which are fenomenal. Just as you have mentioned some apps above, I have never heard of some of them and yet do not know where to find them. And believe me.. I search. The question may be.. where to look...

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I see. I have tried Gimp and think it is very nice.. there is just that conversion barrier I deal with. I've used photoshop for over 10 years and am used to the interface. I also have done searches for top programs for linux and have come up dry as far as the choices presented to me. Linux is an OS that should allow me to do more and open the spectrum for opportunity. I am sure there is a huge database of programs out there which are fenomenal. Just as you have mentioned some apps above, I have never heard of some of them and yet do not know where to find them. And believe me.. I search. The question may be.. where to look...

I've never used Photoshop (didn't want to pay that much for something I wasn't sure I would use), but did purchase a Corel Photo suite many years ago, when I still used Windows. I understand the learning curve associated with changing apps like this. I changed from Corel to GIMP. Windows to Linux. It is difficult to change - and change only for the sake of change is counter-productive.

For my app preferences, I looked at the default apps presented to me in Linux. Where I found some not meeting my needs, I googled forums and/or asked questions. Also, doing a search in the synaptic package manager (which is like a shopping mall) for items helped me discover alternatives that were readily available. Again, my needs may differ wildly from yours or other people's.

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Very true, but I didn't want to elaborate into the fact that Microsoft has cornered the market and since 9*% of people use windows thats what developers want to primarily develop for. But since you can't use x and y on linux what does everyone else do? On a typical day with your linux box.. what is it that you are doing? Do you just surf the net, hop on Neowin or are you productive in other ways? I never said that Linux was the problem.. I just said that I don't know how to use the OS to benefit me... and I want to.

True, I primarily use it to surf the net, most people do that now, but I have my favorite Windows game (NFS: Most Wanted) installed and I play that every so often and also my other favorite game Solsuite 2008 as well. Plus Linux has quite a number of its own games that are quite good. I download and watch TV shows that I don't get here (BBC: Dr. Who, Torchwood, etc). In fact now I spend more time actually using my system than I didn't with Windows. I also no longer dread turning my computer on each day as I did under Vista. Peace of mind was a big deciding factor as well.

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