DrunknMunky Veteran Posted May 17, 2008 Veteran Share Posted May 17, 2008 Does it really matter? I don't think it does Does it really matter if Sony is losing money? I'd hazard a guess and say yeah :laugh: If you don't want to take part in the discussion, stay out of the topic? Easy. @gunnerhkjp, even if MS are losing money on the console hardware (which none of us really know for sure), they are making plenty of it back with XBL, licensing and peripherals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popisdead uk Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 Does it really matter if Sony is losing money?I'd hazard a guess and say yeah :laugh: If you don't want to take part in the discussion, stay out of the topic? Easy. @gunnerhkjp, even if MS are losing money on the console hardware (which none of us really know for sure), they are making plenty of it back with XBL, licensing and peripherals. To who? Sony and who else? Why do people get so irate about a companies financial situation? Sony clearly are not worried, so why should anybody else? Its completely normal for a company to be losing money in the first few years of a huge release. Microsoft lose money on operating systems and hardware, as do Sony. I wasn't being snotty I was simply asking why it actually matters that people are trying to prove just how much companies are losing, or not as the case may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormier6083 Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 There was a news article last year that stated that Sony lost $0 on all PS3's made and sold last year. So wtf? Maybe we can't trust the media? To who? Sony and who else? Why do people get so irate about a companies financial situation? Sony clearly are not worried, so why should anybody else? He's just pointing out flaws to make the Xbox seem superior, which it is in some respects. Nothing more that harmless fanboyism. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konstanov Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 Does it really matter if Sony is losing money?I'd hazard a guess and say yeah Really? I don't think it matters to anyone outside of upper management or major stockholders because they seem to be functioning quite normally. In fact they seem to be functioning in the same capacity they have been since before the PS3 came out. So it looks it doesn't matter to anyone in this discussion. [/sarcasm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunknMunky Veteran Posted May 17, 2008 Veteran Share Posted May 17, 2008 To who? Sony and who else? Why do people get so irate about a companies financial situation? Sony clearly are not worried, so why should anybody else? Really? I don't think it matters to anyone outside of upper management or major stockholders because they seem to be functioning quite normally. In fact they seem to be functioning in the same capacity they have been since before the PS3 came out. So it looks it doesn't matter to anyone in this discussion.[/sarcasm] I never said it mattered to me ;). Popisdead asked if it really matters, and yes it does. Of course we're not going to see Sony react with panic, it's all behind closed doors. He's just pointing out flaws to make the Xbox seem superior, which it is in some respects. Nothing more that harmless fanboyism. :D This has nothing to do with the "superior" hardware of either console, nor a fanboy discussion. Jog on (Y) :) Obviously this topic is of interest otherwise it wouldn't be published on a gaming news website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian M. Veteran Posted May 17, 2008 Veteran Share Posted May 17, 2008 Don't most major consoles lose money anyway (Wii excluded, on which I think Nintendo actually make a profit)? I always thought that they made most of their money from game licensing/sales (and don't forget ridiculously priced accessories, which both Microsoft (wifi adapter, anyone?) and Sony are guilty of). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boz Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Don't most major consoles lose money anyway (Wii excluded, on which I think Nintendo actually make a profit)?I always thought that they made most of their money from game licensing/sales (and don't forget ridiculously priced accessories, which both Microsoft (wifi adapter, anyone?) and Sony are guilty of). Nope.. at this point only Sony is still losing big. Microsoft is at worst breaking even and that's, as someone above noted, they make A LOT of money on Xbox Live, TV shows, movies and games through their Microsoft Games publisher so in general they are making big bucks any way you look a it. All consoles do lose but that's usually for the first year before interest and quantity of users rises. I'm excited for all this, because since Microsoft is making money now, we can definitely see next gen console from them in the next 2 years and it's going to be great because I have a hunch that they'll make Xbox Live and everything work together between Xbox 360 and let's say "Xbox 1080". This way their losses on new Xbox won't be drastic because they'll keep making big bucks with Xbox 360 covering both hardcore and regular gamers depending on their budgets. It's really a good idea and they had plenty of proof that it works looking at how well PS2 still sells and makes a lot of money to Sony despite PS3. I'm excited to see what next Xbox will be like. It's not too far ahead either. I'm guessing full 1080p graphics at 60fps, new controllers, totally revamped Xbox Live etc etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popisdead uk Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Nope.. at this point only Sony is still losing big. Microsoft is at worst breaking even and that's, as someone above noted, they make A LOT of money on Xbox Live, TV shows, movies and games through their Microsoft Games publisher so in general they are making big bucks any way you look a it.All consoles do lose but that's usually for the first year before interest and quantity of users rises. I'm excited for all this, because since Microsoft is making money now, we can definitely see next gen console from them in the next 2 years and it's going to be great because I have a hunch that they'll make Xbox Live and everything work together between Xbox 360 and let's say "Xbox 1080". This way their losses on new Xbox won't be drastic because they'll keep making big bucks with Xbox 360 covering both hardcore and regular gamers depending on their budgets. It's really a good idea and they had plenty of proof that it works looking at how well PS2 still sells and makes a lot of money to Sony despite PS3. I'm excited to see what next Xbox will be like. It's not too far ahead either. I'm guessing full 1080p graphics at 60fps, new controllers, totally revamped Xbox Live etc etc.. We will be grateful if the next Xbox just works. I think you are way off the mark though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Star Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?show...c=613043&hl Here is is: While the PlayStation 3 cost Sony somewhere around $800 when it was launched in Nov. 2006, Sony has told Business Week that the PS3 now costs about $400 to produce?or right around the cost of their console 40GB console (and frankly, the 80GB version can't be costing Sony much more).b>While the news in no way implies it's time for another price drop, we wouldn't call it crazy for Sony to have "$300 PS3" scribbled into their Worst Case Scenario, Holy Crap How Are We Still in Third Place handbook. So the 80GB is canceled right now, so yeah they are making 0 profit and 0 losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popisdead uk Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 I think the majority of us know Sony's history. The PS3 will make them money. Competition has been a lot tougher this year round (price wise) so Sony have had to cut the price to battle along with the Wii/360. More and more people are buying into the PS brand and PS3 now so it really is only a matter of time. MS are more than likely making money on the Xbox, finally and that's also great. I don't see the reason for debating who is earning the most money? Both companies are going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookas Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 I don't see the reason for debating who is earning the most money? Both companies are going nowhere. Because the people that could only afford one console have to argue about which is better to justify their choice. The rest of us are too busy playing games! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popisdead uk Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Because the people that could only afford one console have to argue about which is better to justify their choice. The rest of us are too busy playing games! I gather that was sarcasm? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boz Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?show...c=613043&hlHere is is: So the 80GB is canceled right now, so yeah they are making 0 profit and 0 losses. You do realize when they make a console for $400 and sell at retail for $400 they are still losing at least $100-$150 a unit and obviously by this article and math we definitely see they might be losing even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soniqstylz Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?show...c=613043&hlHere is is: So the 80GB is canceled right now, so yeah they are making 0 profit and 0 losses. They would still be making profit from things like SCEI and blu-ray discs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconboy Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 they are still losing money!? that sucks. what also sucks is that i havent heard about Sony MAKING MONEY in a LONG LONG TIME!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 they are still losing money!? that sucks. what also sucks is that i havent heard about Sony MAKING MONEY in a LONG LONG TIME!!! sony make huge sums from their camera's, tv's, phones etc, they can afford to subsudise the gaming section because in a year or two it will be turning a profit, microsoft did the same with the xbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMaster23 Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 it isn't uncommon for gaming entertainment systems to cost more money then they sell for. This is because this market works with a different (and weird) business model. You introduce a low entry system (by low, I mean couple of 100, as in not 1000) and try and make more profit on games and addons. In any other market/business, this businessmodel would fail. Look at DVD / HD-DVD / Blu-ray player. You easily pay couple of 100s of bucks to pay for the hardware. However the content is much much cheaper when compared to games. (HD movies are more expensive due to it's inmaturity) Inmagine your high-end DVD player would cost your 30$ or your Bu-ray just 100$ .. but the movies would set you back 50$ a piece .. would you do it? You are with games :) oh and ps: ... Sony is infact losing a lot of money. Microsoft have done it right and now breaking even. nintendo keeps printing money still (go figure how you're getting ripped off with the wii :)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunknMunky Veteran Posted May 19, 2008 Veteran Share Posted May 19, 2008 sony make huge sums from their camera's, tv's, phones etc, they can afford to subsudise the gaming section because in a year or two it will be turning a profit, microsoft did the same with the xbox. Well if you're going to take that into consideration, why don't don't we bring up Microsoft's OS, Office etc which makes them billions? ;) Or we can just keep the discussion on the console divisions of both companies (Y) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Well if you're going to take that into consideration, why don't don't we bring up Microsoft's OS, Office etc which makes them billions? ;)Or we can just keep the discussion on the console divisions of both companies (Y) Thats exactly what I said, microsoft used its wealth to keep the xbox (original) afloat in the early years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popisdead uk Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 oh and ps: ... Sony is infact losing a lot of money. Microsoft have done it right and now breaking even. nintendo keeps printing money still (go figure how you're getting ripped off with the wii :)) Microsoft have done it right? Are you kidding? They have royally f'd it up. They could be making a fortune but instead they are paying massively (still) for using cheap parts. The Xbox never made a penny for the company, they lost a lot of money. The PS1 and 2 made a shed load for Sony. I think out of the two gaming companies its clear who has it 'right'. The PS3 is 'using' the profit from the 2 earlier models. The PS3 is selling well and will soon be making clear profit of it's own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunknMunky Veteran Posted May 19, 2008 Veteran Share Posted May 19, 2008 Microsoft have done it right? Are you kidding? They have royally f'd it up. They could be making a fortune but instead they are paying massively (still) for using cheap parts.The Xbox never made a penny for the company, they lost a lot of money. The PS1 and 2 made a shed load for Sony. I think out of the two gaming companies its clear who has it 'right'. The PS3 is 'using' the profit from the 2 earlier models. The PS3 is selling well and will soon be making clear profit of it's own. I'd say that's a bit harsh, they are the first to reach 10 million after all. They have done a hell of a lot different and it's paid off big. As for cheap parts? Where did you get that from? All we know about the RROD was a production fault at one of the factories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popisdead uk Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 I'd say that's a bit harsh, they are the first to reach 10 million after all. They have done a hell of a lot different and it's paid off big. As for cheap parts? Where did you get that from? All we know about the RROD was a production fault at one of the factories. I was talking specifically about the financial side of it, they have royally shafted that up and will never fully recover from it. As for cheap parts, of course they are. The DVD lens doesn't use any buffer protection and regularly scratches discs, the clamp holding the GPU onto the motherboard is cheap and nasty also and thats just 2 parts, there are more. I've had the machine apart and seen it for myself. If RROD was a production fault, why are they still getting them? If MS actually spend time on quality they would have an even bigger brand with the Xbox (and its pretty big now!!). Sony would have even more to worry about if MS had done it right. I'm not looking for a fight, or trying to be a fanboy in anyway - it's how I see it (and many others) and I won't be changing my mind anytime soon ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted May 19, 2008 Subscriber² Share Posted May 19, 2008 I was talking specifically about the financial side of it, they have royally shafted that up and will never fully recover from it.As for cheap parts, of course they are. The DVD lens doesn't use any buffer protection and regularly scratches discs, the clamp holding the GPU onto the motherboard is cheap and nasty also and thats just 2 parts, there are more. I've had the machine apart and seen it for myself. If RROD was a production fault, why are they still getting them? If MS actually spend time on quality they would have an even bigger brand with the Xbox (and its pretty big now!!). Sony would have even more to worry about if MS had done it right. I'm not looking for a fight, or trying to be a fanboy in anyway - it's how I see it (and many others) and I won't be changing my mind anytime soon ;) The way I see it, Sony are currently the hardware kings of this generation - Rock solid machine, support of the winning HD format, and the most open hardware platform (change your own hard drive/connect your psp/attach keyboard and mouse/use any bluetooth accessory). PSN is also very open, but that's software related. They won't be beaten on hardware unless after 2 years or something every PS3 starts failing. MS are currently kings of the software this generation - Most AAA titles, and biggest library - Well I dunno if the Wii library is bigger now, but it's 90% BS. Their OS ties into software and it's also currently the king. Where MS may have a challenge to face is therefore in software - If Sony can make themselves kings in any area of software, MS will be facing a tough challenge as on the hardware front they won't beat Sony - Well it's unlikely, especially if they don't support BR, and as we all know the hardware faults (RROD) has tainted the 360 name in regards to reliability. That's how I think it looks ON PAPER, obviously what consumers choose to spend their money on and back, doesn't have to follow what paper says looks "best" - Obvious example is everyone backing BR, when on paper, HD-DVD was further ahead in advancement and cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyX Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 I was talking specifically about the financial side of it, they have royally shafted that up and will never fully recover from it.As for cheap parts, of course they are. The DVD lens doesn't use any buffer protection and regularly scratches discs, the clamp holding the GPU onto the motherboard is cheap and nasty also and thats just 2 parts, there are more. I've had the machine apart and seen it for myself. If RROD was a production fault, why are they still getting them? If MS actually spend time on quality they would have an even bigger brand with the Xbox (and its pretty big now!!). Sony would have even more to worry about if MS had done it right. I'm not looking for a fight, or trying to be a fanboy in anyway - it's how I see it (and many others) and I won't be changing my mind anytime soon ;) I agree with you on that MS financially has lost a lot of money with the mistakes from the RLOD issue. Everything else you said after was pure Pro-Sony talk. You are saying the XBOX360 contains cheap parts i agree, The Playstation 1 & 2 contained cheap parts just as much as the XBOX & XBOX360 and pretty much every console that has come out. Just because it has a Blu-ray drive doesnt exclude the console from being cheaply made. Your comment on the DVD drive is a joke. Yes a few have had issues with game discs being scratched with early models but i haven't seen anyone getting them for over a year now. The Playstation 2 DVD drive was a joke, people got scratched discs all the time and the dvd drive would fail after about a year. The laser was the issue and even after umpteen revisions later they still haven't sorted it. The PS3 doesnt have any buffer protection on the drive either so stop making it against the 360 all the time. Your last line is funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popisdead uk Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 I agree with you on that MS financially has lost a lot of money with the mistakes from the RLOD issue.Everything else you said after was pure Pro-Sony talk. You are saying the XBOX360 contains cheap parts i agree, The Playstation 1 & 2 contained cheap parts just as much as the XBOX & XBOX360 and pretty much every console that has come out. Just because it has a Blu-ray drive doesnt exclude the console from being cheaply made. Your comment on the DVD drive is a joke. Yes a few have had issues with game discs being scratched with early models but i haven't seen anyone getting them for over a year now. The Playstation 2 DVD drive was a joke, people got scratched discs all the time and the dvd drive would fail after about a year. The laser was the issue and even after umpteen revisions later they still haven't sorted it. The PS3 doesnt have any buffer protection on the drive either so stop making it against the 360 all the time. Your last line is funny. I'm not talking about the PS1, 2 or Xbox. I'm talking about the 360. Seems I'm not the fanboy here ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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