Sony losing $260 per PS3?


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I'm not talking about the PS1, 2 or Xbox. I'm talking about the 360. Seems I'm not the fanboy here ;)

Really? This happens to be the Sony section and the OP is about Sony losing $260 per PS3? So where does the XBOX360 and it's RLOD and DVD issues come into it?

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If RROD was a production fault, why are they still getting them?

Not since Mid-August to September they haven't. The problems I see reported here on Neowin and Xbox forums for example are all members with older hardware or ones "repaired" before the fix. I agree with the dvd drive being cheap, but the xclamp was a production fault afaik.

@Audio, I very much doubt Sony will ever take back the software crown. One of the biggest hurdles for devs is the cost for the PS3 dev kits and thus we aren't seeing the boom the PS1 and 2 had with software. Also, 4 exclusives or whatever it is in 2008 isn't going to redeem and over take what the 360 has produced for almost 3 years now. Not when MS has it's own big exclusives coming also.

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Really? This happens to be the Sony section and the OP is about Sony losing $260 per PS3? So where does the XBOX360 and it's RLOD and DVD issues come into it?

I was following on from somebody else's post about Microsoft, no need to get arsey mate.

You do come across as a bit of a 360 fanboy as I'm sure I do a PS3 fanboy. I mentioned faults with the 360 and you justified them by mentioning the faults with the PS2.

Not since Mid-August to September they haven't. The problems I see reported here on Neowin and Xbox forums for example are all members with older hardware or ones "repaired" before the fix.

@Audio, I very much doubt Sony will ever take back the software crown. One of the biggest hurdles for devs is the cost for the PS3 dev kits and thus we aren't seeing the boom the PS1 and 2 had with software. Also, 4 exclusives or whatever it is in 2008 isn't going to redeem and over take what the 360 has produced for almost 3 years now. Not when MS has it's own big exclusives coming also.

There are still plenty of 'new' consoles breaking down with the red lights.

As for them overtaking and getting the 'crown' back, I don't think its as important as people make out. Both consoles can co-exist and complement each other (I think).

I couldn't do without either of the consoles.

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@Audio, I very much doubt Sony will ever take back the software crown. One of the biggest hurdles for devs is the cost for the PS3 dev kits and thus we aren't seeing the boom the PS1 and 2 had with software. Also, 4 exclusives or whatever it is in 2008 isn't going to redeem and over take what the 360 has produced for almost 3 years now. Not when MS has it's own big exclusives coming also.

That's the exciting part of this race, I don't think you can say either way with confidence right now. Well you can, it's your prediction I guess.

I don't think 2008 will decide anything really (other than proving Sony are worthwhile competitors), Sony have set themselves up for 10 years, this race has a long time to go and many many more exclusives to burn through - Many we haven't heard about and might not till 2010, and many that are announced but unproven/new.

It's about 3 regions as well, America, Europe and Japan. America/Europe are probably similarly balanced on what exclusive genres we like (expect us Europeans are more nuts about the real football ;)) - However sports games are hardly every exclusive.

Aside from racing franchises like PGR/Forza and GT. GT is the biggest out of those though.

Japan however is a different kettle of fish from what we like. I can see the PS3 taking software crown in Japan easily over the 360 once the likes of FF hits, WKS and any other JRPG's. And especially whatever Team ICO announce :drool:

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There are still plenty of 'new' consoles breaking down with the red lights.

As for them overtaking and getting the 'crown' back, I don't think its as important as people make out. Both consoles can co-exist and complement each other (I think).

I couldn't do without either of the consoles.

Without any proof of that it's a mute point. I own one of the new chipset 360's, as do others here, and I haven't seen any of them report problems. It's quiet as hell (minus the dvd drive) and the console produces cooler air and doesn't get as hot overall. With the new 65nm GPU coming in August, it's only going to get cooler (and cheaper while on the subject).

How can a games library not be important? It's what Sony are trying their hardest right now to correct. We just heard about them admitting the console was lacking for the first year+ last week. I agree they both complement each other well though, which is why I own both.

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Without any proof of that it's a mute point. I own one of the new chipset 360's, as do others here, and I haven't seen any of them report problems. It's quiet as hell (minus the dvd drive) and the console produces cooler air and doesn't get as hot overall. With the new 65nm GPU coming in August, it's only going to get cooler (and cheaper while on the subject).

How can a games library not be important? It's what Sony are trying their hardest right now to correct. We just heard about them admitting the console was lacking for the first year+ last week. I agree they both complement each other well though, which is why I own both.

Sorry, I thought you meant software as in O/S type software (PSN, XBL etc). If you did indeed mean games, yes of course they are important!! It can only get better (can't get much worse).

As for the 360, its best to agree to disagree. I've used newer models and they are still noisy ('quiet as hell' is a little OTT), and I've got friends and friends of friends that have still had technical issues. I am glad you are not though!

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That's the exciting part of this race, I don't think you can say either way with confidence right now. Well you can, it's your prediction I guess.

I don't think 2008 will decide anything really (other than proving Sony are worthwhile competitors), Sony have set themselves up for 10 years, this race has a long time to go and many many more exclusives to burn through - Many we haven't heard about and might not till 2010, and many that are announced but unproven/new.

It's about 3 regions as well, America, Europe and Japan. America/Europe are probably similarly balanced on what exclusive genres we like (expect us Europeans are more nuts about the real football ;)) - However sports games are hardly every exclusive.

Aside from racing franchises like PGR/Forza and GT. GT is the biggest out of those though.

Japan however is a different kettle of fish from what we like. I can see the PS3 taking software crown in Japan easily over the 360 once the likes of FF hits, WKS and any other JRPG's. And especially whatever Team ICO announce :drool:

Well it seems to me people expect MS to be standing still while Sony release all of their exclusives this year, which obviously just isn't the case. They are hard at work on their own for both this year and next. As for Sony's 10 year plan, we can't really judge on that as it's a long way off and we'll only know when we are looking back and bickering here in a decades time :laugh: But like I said, MS aint standing still and whatever long term plan Sony has, you can bet MS have one too, be it with the 360 or the next Xbox.

Very true about the Asian market though, I don't see MS winning that territory this generation, but do think they will expand it. We've seen that with news of a new studio in S.Korea last week.

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Very true about the Asian market though, I don't see MS winning that territory this generation, but do think they will expand it. We've seen that with news of a new studio in S.Korea last week.

They will never do well over there. The Japanese/Chinese are very brand loyal and tend to steer clear of anything 'Western'.

Who said that MS would stand still? I don't think I've ever read anybody say that. One thing is for sure, its going to be fun.

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Microsoft have done it right? Are you kidding? They have royally f'd it up. They could be making a fortune but instead they are paying massively (still) for using cheap parts.

The Xbox never made a penny for the company, they lost a lot of money. The PS1 and 2 made a shed load for Sony. I think out of the two gaming companies its clear who has it 'right'. The PS3 is 'using' the profit from the 2 earlier models. The PS3 is selling well and will soon be making clear profit of it's own.

Thank god you don't work on Wall Street:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/50957

(Can't find the link to MS.com right now). The consumer entertainment division posted an profit of 0.5 billion..

Sure they had to extend the warranty which will set them back 1 billion .. one year later, the 1 billion has been paid for..

Thus making them financial geniuses. PS3 selling well and making a clear profit ain't the same thing. Not by a long shot.

They only way they can make a profit is by reducing costs like Microsoft did. MS was able to cut the costs on the CPU considerably thus allowing them to lower the price and still make a profit.

So .. not to be biased or be a fanboy or anything .. but look at like this:

- MS: making profits .. cutting prices .. cheapest console on the market due to massive price cuts...

- Sony: massive losses .. stunggeling to cut prices .. no where near the cheapest and no price cuts in sight...

(- Nintendo: printing money, laughing their ass off)

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Thank god you don't work on Wall Street:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/50957

(Can't find the link to MS.com right now). The consumer entertainment division posted an profit of 0.5 billion..

Sure they had to extend the warranty which will set them back 1 billion .. one year later, the 1 billion has been paid for..

Thus making them financial geniuses. PS3 selling well and making a clear profit ain't the same thing. Not by a long shot.

They only way they can make a profit is by reducing costs like Microsoft did. MS was able to cut the costs on the CPU considerably thus allowing them to lower the price and still make a profit.

So .. not to be biased or be a fanboy or anything .. but look at like this:

- MS: making profits .. cutting prices .. cheapest console on the market due to massive price cuts...

- Sony: massive losses .. stunggeling to cut prices .. no where near the cheapest and no price cuts in sight...

(- Nintendo: printing money, laughing their ass off)

The good thing for Sony and MS is they can afford to take hits and losses left right and center, as long as their other departments rake in the profit.

It's actually how they expect to operate in the first few years of business, and then they turn it around in the limelight years (when the most consoles are sold anyway).

Nintendo on the other hand, would take an actual beating if they lost money per Wii (They don't have a TV/Camera division or a huge software division - Windows), which may even be a reason why they were the opposite of adventurous on the specs of the Wii (gamecube 1.5 really) and why they have shown a complete disrespect for future proofing - Lack of HD, and very poor support for digital distribution (no hard drive).

Edited by Audioboxer
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They will never do well over there. The Japanese/Chinese are very brand loyal and tend to steer clear of anything 'Western'.

Who said that MS would stand still? I don't think I've ever read anybody say that. One thing is for sure, its going to be fun.

Like I said, the new S.Korea studio is a step in the right direction. We've already seen MS focus more on Asian styled games this generation and I'm sure they aren't going to give up either. MS are in the console game for the long run. Neither of us are right or wrong, let's just wait and see how it plays out.

I know nobody has specifically said MS are standing still, but everyone makes out like Sony are the only ones taking steps forward with all the exclusives coming this Summer / Winter.

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Thank god you don't work on Wall Street:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/50957

(Can't find the link to MS.com right now). The consumer entertainment division posted an profit of 0.5 billion..

Sure they had to extend the warranty which will set them back 1 billion .. one year later, the 1 billion has been paid for..

Thus making them financial geniuses. PS3 selling well and making a clear profit ain't the same thing. Not by a long shot.

They only way they can make a profit is by reducing costs like Microsoft did. MS was able to cut the costs on the CPU considerably thus allowing them to lower the price and still make a profit.

So .. not to be biased or be a fanboy or anything .. but look at like this:

- MS: making profits .. cutting prices .. cheapest console on the market due to massive price cuts...

- Sony: massive losses .. stunggeling to cut prices .. no where near the cheapest and no price cuts in sight...

(- Nintendo: printing money, laughing their ass off)

I think its time to agree to disagree. Both companies are going nowhere, lets look at it that way.

Like I said, the new S.Korea studio is a step in the right direction. We've already seen MS focus more on Asian styled games this generation and I'm sure they aren't going to give up either. MS are in the console game for the long run. Neither of us are right or wrong, let's just wait and see how it plays out.

I know nobody has specifically said MS are standing still, but everyone makes out like Sony are the only ones taking steps forward with all the exclusives coming this Summer / Winter.

Good luck to them, it makes no difference to me how they do in Asia to be fair...

I can't wait to see what's coming from both companies over the coming years if I'm being honest. No winners or losers in my opinion.

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I think its time to agree to disagree. Both companies are going nowhere, lets look at it that way.

How are they going nowhere?

The business plans these companies follow ensure profits in the mid-to-later years of sales, obviously if the console is successful and lasts long.

The PS1 and PS2 made healthy profits for Sony, but both debuted with losses. Even the PSP no doubt debuted with a loss, but im sure it's making profit now.

As I said on the last page, just the way it works, and Sony can do it due to them covering losses in other departments.

The later years is when the console sells the most units as well, so it's not rocket science to see how profit is made.

Early years: Loss on units, but low hardware sales

Later years: Profit on units, and high hardware sales

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That's the only reason I would buy a PS3, to help Sony go bankrupt faster.

That's not cool man....It's Microsoft with its garbage Xbox 360 that we should try and bankrupt for releasing a product that has caused so much anguish to so many people...Microsoft thought that us, its customers, aren't important enough to give us a well designed product (FROM THE BEGINNING) that doesn't have the flaws that the Xbox 360s had so we should turn on them and boycott them. If they thought we'd spend money to be beta testers then really, they deserve nothing less than to be out of a job with their families living on the streets!

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How are they going nowhere?

The business plans these companies follow ensure profits in the mid-to-later years of sales, obviously if the console is successful and lasts long.

The PS1 and PS2 made health profits for Sony, but both debuted with losses. Even the PSP no doubt debuted with a loss, but im sure it's making profit now.

As I said on the last page, just the way it works, and Sony can do it due to them covering losses in other departments.

I think you misunderstood me. When I said 'nowhere', I meant that they are not going bust and will continue to support their products, and future projects/products etc.

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I think you misunderstood me. When I said 'nowhere', I meant that they are not going bust and will continue to support their products, and future projects/products etc.

Ah right ok, I misunderstood you.

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That's not cool man....It's Microsoft with its garbage Xbox 360 that we should try and bankrupt for releasing a product that has caused so much anguish to so many people...Microsoft thought that us, its customers, aren't important enough to give us a well designed product (FROM THE BEGINNING) that doesn't have the flaws that the Xbox 360s had so we should turn on them and boycott them. If they thought we'd spend money to be beta testers then really, they deserve nothing less than to be out of a job with their families living on the streets!

Jeez louise :rolleyes:

Good luck bankrupting the richest (second richest?) man in the world :laugh:

Beta testers :rofl:

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That's not cool man....It's Microsoft with its garbage Xbox 360 that we should try and bankrupt for releasing a product that has caused so much anguish to so many people...Microsoft thought that us, its customers, aren't important enough to give us a well designed product (FROM THE BEGINNING) that doesn't have the flaws that the Xbox 360s had so we should turn on them and boycott them. If they thought we'd spend money to be beta testers then really, they deserve nothing less than to be out of a job with their families living on the streets!

:laugh:

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To who? Sony and who else? Why do people get so irate about a companies financial situation? Sony clearly are not worried, so why should anybody else?

Its completely normal for a company to be losing money in the first few years of a huge release. Microsoft lose money on operating systems and hardware, as do Sony.

I wasn't being snotty I was simply asking why it actually matters that people are trying to prove just how much companies are losing, or not as the case may be.

err what? :D

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err what? :D

+1

think of all the companies using legit copies of windows all over the world, isn't it something like 90% of desktop systems are windows??

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I think you misunderstood me. When I said 'nowhere', I meant that they are not going bust and will continue to support their products, and future projects/products etc.

going nowhere? Don't be absurd .. companies revise their products all the time to make them easier and cheaper to make..

Xbox360 and Playstation 3 both do it in the most obvious way .. shrink the chips.

Newer 360's and PS3's both have newer 65nm cpu's which are cheaper to make and produce more yields.

Thus cutting costs and raising profits (which Sony needs .. MS just lowers its PRP for the third time)

No company is standing still .. to do so it to die...

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going nowhere? Don't be absurd .. companies revise their products all the time to make them easier and cheaper to make..

Xbox360 and Playstation 3 both do it in the most obvious way .. shrink the chips.

Newer 360's and PS3's both have newer 65nm cpu's which are cheaper to make and produce more yields.

Thus cutting costs and raising profits (which Sony needs .. MS just lowers its PRP for the third time)

No company is standing still .. to do so it to die...

Erm. Right? I didn't say otherwise. Calm down and read what I wrote again :)

+1

think of all the companies using legit copies of windows all over the world, isn't it something like 90% of desktop systems are windows??

I don't know what I wrote that. :laugh:

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