UFC 87 (Seek and Destroy)


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Just watched the 2 main events as I was tired and went to bed and Brock did well and showed he should be in the UFC and well GSP did amazing him and Penn they are saying next.

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Best UFC event in a while...

Florian, glad to see he's getting higher in the ranks.. he's been underestimated for a while.

Jason Mcdonald.. sad to see him lose, i think he's an amazing fighter and this fight might hurt his career.

Kongo.. what can i say..lol

GSP... seen it coming, however i didn't expect SUCH a domination. I want to feel about GSP the way i do about anderson silva because i'm a big fan of both.. but when Silva fights.. i don't worry because i feel he's near unbeatable. With GSP, i feel like a couple of really good punches can shake him up.. hopefully this will change in the future because he's simply an amazing fighter.

Lesnar.. i was very surprised by his performance. He has alot of work to do, he didn't capitalize on alot of things, mainly relied on his size. I hope to god almighty though that Dana scolds him for the BS WWE **** he tried to pull at the end of the fight... this is UFC not WWE jackass, lose the act and start being a professional. I don't know how anyone can ever respect him after that garbage. 8 seconds left and he starts pretending he's riding a bull on Herrings back... what a jackass.

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Lesnar had this unique ability to not finish his opponent. If he can ever get skill into his regime, that mans strength and size will carry him far. Put him in with Kongo next. lol.

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Lesnar.. i was very surprised by his performance. He has alot of work to do, he didn't capitalize on alot of things, mainly relied on his size. I hope to god almighty though that Dana scolds him for the BS WWE **** he tried to pull at the end of the fight... this is UFC not WWE jackass, lose the act and start being a professional. I don't know how anyone can ever respect him after that garbage. 8 seconds left and he starts pretending he's riding a bull on Herrings back... what a jackass.

Indeed, the total opposite of GSP and Fitch.

He has to learn on getting his manners straight and get more into learning new fighting skills. Oh well, I guess he was happy of winning his first UFC match, but the octagon is no place to get arrogant in.

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Heres another opinion on sports conduct in not necessarily representing my opinion. Source.

Bull Ropes and BS: 'Respect' and Fan Foolery

After a 15-minute emasculation of Heath Herring, even in the face of other notable Saturday night happenings, I was fully aware Brock Lesnar was going to dominate my inbox come Sunday morning. However, I expected most of the discussion to be centered on his obvious potential as a heavyweight, with requests for me to impersonate Joe Silva by forecasting Lesnar's future fighting engagements.

Instead, I have been swarmed with and puzzled by dozens and dozens of choleric and venomous messages from incensed fans who have apparently suffered damaged psyches at the hands of Brock Lesnar's in-cage antics.

That's right: Lesnar's curb-stomping of Herring is no longer the issue. What's really important, what's really stuck in the craw of fans, is Brock Lesnar laughing at Herring while assaulting him, and an imaginary bull roping of the Texan following the fight.

This is seriously an issue?

We're embroiled in an unfortunate era of professional athletics where major sports leagues have become comically stringent toward the perceived "excesses" of celebration. The NFL has been tabbed "the No Fun League,” has had to ban the use of "props,” and regularly hands out "excessive celebration" penalties. In the NBA, you can wag your finger to the crowd, but do it in the direction of an opposing player, and you're facing a fine, never mind the resulting insanity if you make a throat slash, or throw up a Roc-a-Fella dynasty diamond with your fingers. Major League Baseball? Fist pump too hard in the wrong inning after a strikeout, and feel the wrath of millions of crusty octogenarians who still keep score in their pocketbooks at the ball park.

Your most hardened sports fans may see contemporary celebrations as a tad on the ridiculous side, but can still acknowledge that even the most inane dance and pantomime is nothing to be vexed by. In fact, it probably adds a little something to the game by introducing a measure of villainy. If sports fans are to lament this hyper-individualistic era of athletics, shouldn't we have individual antagonists?

However, if this is the overwhelming sentiment from general sports fans, why are so many MMA fans angered by Brock Lesnar's Saturday night shenanigans?

"Does he know he's in a real sport now?" one rankled emailer wrote me. "This is not how MMA fighters in the biggest organization in the world act. He should have looked at the guy in the main event, and taken notes."

My only question: Which guy in the main event? The guy who breakdances and back-flips after victory, or the guy who mean-mugs at the camera, snarling and sneering?

You can't throw up a post-fight fist pump without punching another elite level MMA fighter with a post-fight trademark. Chuck Liddell screams. Takanori Gomi surfs on the turnbuckle, and Eddie Alvarez back-flips off of it. Thiago Silva and Josh Barnett have the market cornered on throat slashing. Yushin Okami shows off his swordsmanship. Gabriel Gonzaga assails cameramen. This truncated list doesn't even account for those who are prone to spontaneous post-fight celebration like BJ Penn, who is liable to lick his opponent's blood or dead-sprint to the locker room after a W, or Anderson Silva, who has dressed up in full Moonwalker garb and given us rhythm guitar lessons after kayos. All of these actions are just as much overtures to the soul of pro-wrestling as those of Lesnar, who is still chided for his WWE wrasslin' tenure.

So, either we have a predictable double-standard at work, or there's some other overlooked aspect.

After responding to another up-in-arms emailer by pointing out that MMA is rife and rich with celebratory silliness, I got a response that perhaps gets us to the kernel of the matter.

"Fighters like BJ and Anderson are free to do whatever they want after they win because they earned it," I was told. "Lesnar has two wins in MMA. He isn't the UFC champion. He just makes an unsportsmanlike ass out of himself. Laughing the way he did during the fight was classless."

Never mind the absurd notion that the ability to celebrate athletic triumph is reserved for top-10 fighters. Am I really to believe that four months and change removed from Mike Kyle getting a televised fight on one of the biggest fight cards of the year, and with Gilbert Yvel just having signed with Dream, that Brock Lesnar's lukewarm cowboy impression are really indicative of unsportsmanlike conduct in MMA?

If Brock Lesnar wants to laugh at his opponents during a fight as he did to Herring, so be it. If his opponents don't want to be mocked in the middle of a match, they ought to learn how to do more than turtle perpetually.

Some cranky old football purists lament the state of the game, but laud more contemporary figures like Barry Sanders and LaDainian Tomlinson because when they score touchdowns, they simply hand the ball to the referee.

"Act like you've been there before," they all pseudo-wistfully say. But Brock Lesnar didn't dive the pile from the two yard line. In his third pro MMA fight, he beat a perennially solid albeit unspectacular heavyweight, in the biggest MMA organization in the world, in front of a partisan crowd on a major pay-per-view. Let the man get his bull rope on. Heath Herring fights in a cage for a living -- I think he can handle an imaginary lasso.

Although traditional martial arts have become scorned and derided in many MMA contexts, there still exists an almost cartoonish, Ken Shamrock-esque obsession with the idea of "respect" in MMA, and that those who don't abide are in violation of some mystical modern samurai code. The fact of the matter is that the sport we watch and enjoy isn't some overwrought honorific combative ritual. It's a prizefight, with grown-ass men trying to prove who the alpha male is. While we all certainly want to see fighters fight clean, hard, and fair, I fail to recognize why some fans are keen to demonize showboating more so than actual in-fight lawlessness.

If you want a testament to the power and place that pro-wrestling gimmickry and showboating have in this sport, look no further than Tito Ortiz. His maybe, maybe-not signing with Affliction was the biggest story of last week in the MMA world, despite the looming UFC 87 card. And what for? Ortiz hasn't beaten an elite-level opponent in years. In fact, his period of dominance in the sport is hard to remember in terms of actual action. Apart from slamming Evan Tanner through the floor, and his commercially successful but competitively handicapped smashing of Ken Shamrock, what do you remember about Tito Ortiz's UFC title reign, except for the Belfort fight being cancelled 60 times and him not fighting Chuck Liddell? You remember the six-shooter pistols. You remember flipping the double birds. You remember the Gravedigger. And for some reason, years later, he's still worth millions when he fights, and that includes your hard-earned dollars.

I'm not long for this world of "Great fight, bro,” and shared embraces for any remotely competitive fight. While I could do without a sport full of Ricardo Mayorgas, I'm all for some good old-fashioned pro-wrestling heel tactics. American MMA needs to step up its game anyhow: Ricardo Arona doesn't have a major deal, Josh Koscheck isn't singing "19-1", and Tim Sylvia still just wants to be loved. Since Yoshihiro Akiyama is well-settled (and well-compensated) as Japan's super-villain, somebody needs to angrily galvanize the MMA public.

If Lesnar's laugh-and-lasso annoyed, offended or even outraged you: good. But if you think for a minute that there's "no place" for this pro-wrestling gimmickry in MMA, Dana White will chap your thin hide all the way to bank. And thank God, because I've had all the clich?d "respect" I can handle.

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Wow.. whoever wrote that article makes no sense at all, it sounds like they obviously have a chip on their shoulder for some reason and are upset about MMA in one way or another. You cannot in any way compare someone celebrating after a victory whether by looking a certain way in the camera, or doing backflips to someone being a complete jackass and riding your opponents back pretending he is a bull WHILE THE MATCH IS STILL ON. There is no room for that behavior in any sport let alone MMA. Maybe it's me, but personally i LOVE to see great sportsmanship after the fight, i love when they show respect for each other even if they didn't like each other previously.

This idiot sounds as if he believes all sports should have a standard that they have to follow, which is not and should not be the case. Take hockey for instance, it's ok to fight during the game, or trash talk.. but once the game is over (playoffs for instance) the teams shake hands, and you would NEVER see one jackass showing off during this time, because it's unsportsmanlike.

at the end of the day i don't care if Lesnar talked trash after the match.. maybe he had good reason, maybe herring's corner did say some **** to get him upset like he claims, but save it for after the fight. In no way should any fighter start showboating during the final seconds of the fight, especially in the way that Lesnar did, it's completely unproffesional and he should be penalized in one way or another.

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you guys who are hating on lesnar are a bunch of girls. its apart of sports, all sports. Yeah it may not be the most respectful but why are you acting like its nog going to happened. Hearing sat there, talked **** about how he was going to kick the crap out of lesnar and he got dominated. Good for lesnar, it was only his second fight and he had some fun while winning. I don't think lesnar could care less what others thing of him, he is there doing his own thing. If you guys hate this guy you must hate terrell owens, chad johnson, sean avery, henry, randy moss etc. Yeah it may have been a bit of a dick thing, but who cares, it was hilirious. I hope he keeps winning and doing it

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you guys who are hating on lesnar are a bunch of girls. its apart of sports, all sports. Yeah it may not be the most respectful but why are you acting like its nog going to happened. Hearing sat there, talked **** about how he was going to kick the crap out of lesnar and he got dominated. Good for lesnar, it was only his second fight and he had some fun while winning. I don't think lesnar could care less what others thing of him, he is there doing his own thing. If you guys hate this guy you must hate terrell owens, chad johnson, sean avery, henry, randy moss etc. Yeah it may have been a bit of a dick thing, but who cares, it was hilirious. I hope he keeps winning and doing it

Everyone talks trash before the match, it's called promotion. UFC feeds off these feuds to make a profit come game time. But during the last 10 seconds of a fight is just stupid and not needed in this sport. You sound like a WWE fanboy who wants to see more of this BS drama in MMA, which sucks for everyone involved. And regarding the names you mentioned.. i don't "hate" any of them..however i think they should be penalized in some form for their behavior. I don't think what lesnar did was funny at all, it's one thing to be cocky or arrogant (ex: tito ortiz) but to start your stupid antics before the match is even over is just plain disrespectful. Save until after the match and say whatever needs to be said... WWE fighters have no business bringing that BS into a real sport.

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Everyone talks trash before the match, it's called promotion. UFC feeds off these feuds to make a profit come game time. But during the last 10 seconds of a fight is just stupid and not needed in this sport. You sound like a WWE fanboy who wants to see more of this BS drama in MMA, which sucks for everyone involved. And regarding the names you mentioned.. i don't "hate" any of them..however i think they should be penalized in some form for their behavior. I don't think what lesnar did was funny at all, it's one thing to be cocky or arrogant (ex: tito ortiz) but to start your stupid antics before the match is even over is just plain disrespectful. Save until after the match and say whatever needs to be said... WWE fighters have no business bringing that BS into a real sport.

To be fair to Brock, I heard Herrings entourage taunted the crap out of him before the fight started tis why there is no apology. If I were Herring, I would be mad at his corner for making this dude that much more motivated to kick his arse. I'm for good sportsmanship but these guys are in the business of hurt. Being bull ridden should be the least of their worries.

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Wikipeida info:

Amateur wrestling

	* North Dakota State University's annual Bison tournament
		  o 1997 winner: Heavyweight[91]
		  o 1998 winner: Heavyweight[91]
		  o 1999 winner: Heavyweight[91]
	* Collegiate
		  o 1998 Junior College National Champion
		  o 2-Time Big Ten Title (1999-2000)
		  o 1999 NCAA Division I runner-up
		  o Ranked the #1 Heavyweight in the Big Ten (2000)
		  o 2000 NCAA Division I Champion
		  o 2-Time NJCAA All-American

These accolades aren't easy to get. I agree with the writer. I can see his argument and its well thought out. And better than a rather undetailed "He's a WWE .... clown." type I'm sure Bull's mail box got.

That said, I think the difference here is the fighters put their lives on the line. As they do in boxing and a few other contact sports, race car driving. Not a problem in NBA, NFL, MLB and such. What goes on behind the scenes stays behind the scenes. So the UFC should talk to Brock and they should talk to all the corner teams and make sure something like this doesn't happen again.

I think the difference with all the UFC fighters is they're a *lot more open, accessible and human* than most other pro athletes esp in contact sports. I think they have the image - and probably are - monsters in the cage and teddy bears out of the ring. Rampage and Griffin are the best, funniest coolest people I've ever seen and I probably wouldn't mind hanging out with them.

I was a competitive athlete and had taken some martial arts. I'm probably no-belt ranking now. There's a respect among the athletes. Like doctors to doctors type of thing. If you're going to be some big-ass bully in the ring or out, you'll get shunned even if the others can't beat you up even when they probably REALLY want to.

That's the difference. Brock is an athlete. He's got the collegiate credentials. He just needs to act more like a professional and a gentleman. A few funny YouTube videos would help his image. There's plenty of those with Rampage. There was one funny one "Don't

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That's the difference. Brock is an athlete. He's got the collegiate credentials. He just needs to act more like a professional and a gentleman. A few funny YouTube videos would help his image. There's plenty of those with Rampage. There was one funny one "Don't

"Don't..." what?

:laugh:

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